What did I unleash, and an update...

[Ceruleanblue]

Most of you are familiar with my story. I was sort of a "hang in there" at all costs type partner. I tried using the tools, and tweaked them when they didn't work. Some worked better than others. Some would work for a while, then he'd seem to catch on.

Well, I've pretty much decided that I can't live with the constant rages, blame, and threats. It's doing psychological damage to me. I have zero security, nevermind that none of my needs are being met, but I'm expected to meet his excessive needs(even if this includes physical pain for me). There's the rub, I no longer want to suffer for his "needs". I've learned to get almost all my needs met elsewhere, or meet them myself, which begs the question of "why am I with him"?

Plus, his kids are also a HUGE issue. I've done all I can to try to make things better, but they won't have any of it(save his son that I get along fine with). I feel like BPDh is always going to be depressed, angry, and blaming, no matter what, but this thing with his kids' just gives him the perfect excuse. He resents me. He and his kids make people make all or nothing choices.

When I first let him know I was making plans to leave at some point, due to his threats, he was shocked. Then he started saying things like "stop saying things like that", or making references like we'd be together in the future. THIS from the guy who'd threatened divorce for five years, except for a short 5-6 month period.

Then, we left a family reunion, and I'd only gone at his request, and all was pleasant. On the way home though, he exploded(he almost always does this after formal family events), and he's now SWITCHED, and is saying HE wants a divorce, and he's acting as if it's all his idea, even though I told him two or three weeks ago that I'll give him the divorce he's always threatening, because I want him to have his girls in his life(and they won't until I'm gone), and I'm sick of how abusive he is to me.

It feels crazy because he's acting like it's all his idea, and he knew I didn't have immediate plans, that it was going to take me time to save up, work out details, and he even asked me a couple nights before the blow up, "what he could do to make me stay". I told him I was sick of being told to "get the F away from him, shut the F up, and the I don't want to be married to you" comments and threats. I told him that he is very verbally abusive(I didn't even mention the sexual abuse), and that I don't want to live with him treating me like that the rest of my life. Later, I mentioned I would also like for him to have some self respect and stand up for out marriage or himself when his girls make drama.

He was fine with the first part of my answer, and admitted he knows how he treats me "isn't right", but he got very angry and twisted what I said in relation to his grown kids. He insists I said he needed to "tell them off", and I know I did not say that. He often twists what I say, and even though I clarify, he won't listen, and I know he's learned about asking for clarification in his DBT sessions. I really, really think he has a severe case of BPD.

I think he's butt hurt, and ego hurt, and maybe has fear of being abandoned. All because I made plans because I could tell his threats were becoming more serious. I mean, he left me once already, and screwed around on me. Lied about using a condom. I could see the writing on the wall, and figured I'd feel better being the one to say "I've had enough".

He's now being very cold, and I've made concessions, that he said he wanted, and now even those won't pacify him. He'd wanted me to get a job to help him dig out of debts he's taken on, I finally agreed, but he still isn't saying he wants me to stay. He's asked me to move into the spare bedroom, and the man who likes to hurt me sexually, and complains that we don't have enough sex, won't even have sex with me now.

He thinks he's punishing me doesn't he. He says things like "I don't care what you do", and a past favorite was "find someone else"(although he got very jealous when a guy I dated while we were separated contacted me). He keeps getting little digs in of "you can do that WHEN YOU MOVE OUT". He's clearly hurt that I didn't back down, and it feels like he wants me to beg to stay.

Here's what my plans were and what I'm trying to pacify him long enough to do: MOVE OUT when he goes for his yearly work trip at the end of October. That gives me time to figure stuff out. He went from not wanting me to leave, even though he was always threatening, to "I'm going to divorce you", even though I'd already told him I was going to leave and divorce him.

Things are not ready for me to leave right now. Why is he acting like this? Do you think I'm right and that he's trying to punish me, and he's clearly pushing me away. He acts like his ego was hurt, and like I betrayed him. I felt every threat and time he cussed me out was a betrayal, but I took it for far too long.

How do I deal with all this? How can he flip what he wants on a dime like he did? I just want to hang in there long enough to make my exit when he is gone... .

[formflier]

Uggg... .

Let me read this again a few times.

Here is my first reaction.  I'm a "stayer"... .so it comes from that point of view.  Perhaps better to say I generally try to "repair" a r/s.

If you don't want to be threatened... .why on earth would you ever threaten someone else? 

You know all to well the pain of threats... please don't do that.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I was not threatening. I was informing him, that I've made plans due to his threats. I feel I have to have a back up plan, because last year, he DID just blow up, and walk away. He's shown he's capable of it. He's moved me away from family, and it's not going to just be easy, with no plans in place. Please don't think I'm threatening him, I'm not. This isn't a threat to get him to do something, because while I'd like him to fight or try for the marriage, he just won't.

I've had two marriage therapists give up on him, and say they can't help him because he's not trying. I respect him enough not to threaten him ever. This isn't a threat, it's letting him know I have to have some plans in place because I can tell he's again going to his dark place, and about to reach his breaking point. I'd be stupid to not recognize it, and have some plans that keep ME safe, and a place to go. Or I just have the right to just say "I can't take this abuse anymore".

His threats are usually hollow, or used to scare me, but I CAN tell when they become more frequent, and when he's about to pull the plug. Last year it was "I want to screw other women", and "I just don't want to be married anymore", "you always do things that annoy me"(no self responsibility for controlling himself, or how he deals with how easily irritated he is).

I don't want anyone to think I'm threatening him. I'm not. I'm finally, finally looking out for me, and it's been hard to even get to that place. There are so many things he could have said or done to make me consider staying, but I'm getting ZERO from him. I have fear of abandonment too after years of his threats, and his leaving last year.

I've always been a "stayer" too, but everyone reaches their limits. He's just too angry, rageful, and not getting ANY better for me to consider a lifetime of this. He's vicious, and cruel, and I do't deserve that, no one does.

He even turned down sex last night, and that was super odd for him. He's asked me to move out of the bedroom. I'm still doing things to be kind, and if he'd really agree to work his DBT program(and actually tell the truth in there), I'd have some hope. As it is, he's been there nearly a year, and only gotten worse.

I do know the pain of threats, which was WHY I was honest with him, and offered him his freedom. It's like once I called him bluff, and I was dead serious about making plans, he decided he didn't want the divorce he's always threatening. His threats hurt me more than anything else. I think it's pride, and his ego that are hurt. He wanted to once again be the one leaving me.

I'm actually trying to both be good to ME, and be noble, and remove myself from all this toxic anger, so he can have his girls back. He'll never have them back as long as he's with ME, and it's looking like his abusiveness will never end. My therapist sees no reason for me to stay, and she says she's "in the hope business". Says some people can change, but he clearly doesn't want to. Heck, his ex is a psychologist(albeit one that used to stab BPDh), and even she gave up on him... .

[Ceruleanblue]

Oh, and some backstory: He did this same thing with his ex. Would move out, go stay with his parents. They did that back and forth for 24 years, until she got fed up, and cheated on him, and left. He's done it to ME, once. We only reconciled because I agreed to his demands: apologize to his kids for things I hadn't even done(it got me nowhere with them, they are angry, likely PD too), and a bunch of sexual demands he knew I was uncomfortable with, and he agreed to get back in therapy. I saw it as a sort of compromise, sort of. He then kicked me kid out, which was awful for me, but I also saw it as protecting my son from all BPDh's hatred towards him.

My son actually doesn't hate BPDh, which I find odd. BPDh isn't nice to him still when my son visits, and he usually hides from my son in our bedroom. My son is now 17, and was nearly 16 when he got thrown out. I'm expected to take all sorts of crap, and exclusion off three of BPDh's grown kids, but he can barely be civil with my 17 year old.

Plus, I've been isolated from my family, and it's all about him and his family. He doesn't really want me talking to anyone, and he doens't like when I go visit my family. When he comes along, he doesn't talk, and my family has been really good to him, especially knowing how he treats me. They've stayed out of it.

I just want peace, and he constantly creates chaos, as do his three girls. His son deals with huge anxiety, and depression, and frequent bouts at the psyche hospital. His son is the only one I have any respect for, because he's at least working his issues. His son is the only one that has shown me kindness.

I think BPDh has thrown me out of the bedroom because he's angry, and hurt. I've tried to tell him I don't want to leave, but HAD to have some plans because I know he's likely to just kick me out(I know he can't actually do that as we are married). He acknowledged that he understood I made plans due to his threats, but he's still deep down very angry at me for it. He was less angry at his ex that cheated, duped him for a year about it, then left him.

I'm trying to be honest with him, and I'm certainly open to him making a move towards trying to get me to stay: as in actually work his program, or at least stop the threats and horrific verbal abuse. He did agree that all that needed to stop, but then it was like he just decided that price was too high to pay. It's like he's addicted to using me as his whipping boy.

I need some solid advice, because most here have advised me to leave, and my family definitely is. I know I need to leave, because while I work on things he's asked me to, he won't own anything, or if he does, it's short lived.

Why the asking me to leave the bedroom, and acting like I'm now repulsive to him? He's always been really attractive to him, and I've recently lost weight too. He made some comment about me being "thinner" when we dated, but that comment was made right after I'd lost most of the weight I'd gained. This man almost never turns down affection or sex, but now he is, and I know he likely did the same in his past.

I'm also thinking that his ex "found someone else" because it's something he has been telling me to do off an on for years. It gets old.

[Lucky Jim]

which begs the question of "why am I with him"?

Hey CB, Right that's the question, but you are clearly hedging in your answer: "I've pretty much decided that I can't live with . . . " etc.  Perhaps a better question is: what do you get out of the r/s that keeps you in it?  Is it the sex, or lack thereof?  The security of having a "man" by your side?  Presumably there is some payout that you are ignoring or unwilling to face.  I suggest an honest heart-to-heart chat with yourself.  Yes, with yourself.  Something else is going on, I suspect, that you haven't acknowledged.  It could relate to your FOO or some other traumatic experience.  What is it?  That's your task: to find out.

LuckyJim

[Ceruleanblue]

Oh, I already know why I've stayed: I HATE quitting or giving up(and divorce feels like that to me), and I hate being alone. I've decided though that being alone sound like heaven, at this point. I want to just be single and get back to being "me". I can't even imagine getting in another relationship at this point. I'm so scared that I'll be duped again. I picked BPDh for all the right reasons, and thought I knew all the signs of an abuser, but he hid it so well.

I know I should have left him the first time he disrespected me or abused me. It's that "staying, and working things out" spirit that kept me there. Also, my religious views. I realize though that God doesn't want anyone abused, and that's no longer my concern. I know I'll never let anyone treat me this way again. I'm reworking my whole life. Getting in college, creating a healthy network of friends and good people. I just want peace, and I'm done trying to do anything to maintain that around toxic people. From now on, toxic people don't get to be in my circle.

[formflier]

Do you believe he feels like you threatened him... .when you "informed" him of your thoughts about leaving the r/s?

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Formflier: I'm sure he viewed it as a "threat", although it really wasn't presented that way. I lovingly told him, and explained the reasons: HIS constant threats, controlling so much of what I do(trying to, or I just allow to save chaos, although I do choose my battles), and his rage/anger, and his kid issue.

He perceives so many things as "being controlled" where therapist after therapist has told him, "it's pretty clear, no one controls you", and he's been gently told compromise is a good thing(his DBT therapist told him that). Also, his view of anything I say, do, or think is run through such a negative filter, and even if I try to clarify, he won't believe me. We are talking small and big issues.

I no longer care how he perceives things, if I know I presented it nicely, and also clarified. He's going to think negatively, and run me down, because that is just what he does. It's not a reflection on ME, it's a reflection on how he's chosen to paint me.

He is all about what he wants me to do, but he's so distant now, I expect him to change banks, and maybe serve me first. I informed him I was making plans, but he knew it would take a few months. Also, these plans were always negotiable, but he never negotiates. It's all his way, or no way. He views compromise as less manly, or something. From the day we married, it's been anger, resentment, and threats and domination.

I just want out, but I'm sad too. I'm open to ideas. I've already been being extra kind to him, and asking him what he needs to hear from me. I'd agree to most anything(within reason), just to get those few extra months, and to be able to move when he doesn't know. You know, how you have to do when you are with someone super abusive, and physically scary. Because, sadly, he can be.

[formflier]

So... .did you introduce a threat into the r/s?

CB... .not trying to be mean here... .I am hoping to clear your vision some.

Not blaming... .but asking if you are responsible.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

NO, I did not. A threat is something you do to intimidate or get your way. It's what he does, it's what some men, that don't have PD's but are abusive do. I INFORMED him that I was making plans, and would carry them out if I had to. I had to make plans because he was threatening to actually throw me out(which I don't think he can legally do?). He knows what I meant, because I've been telling him for months that I am really sick of his threats of divorce, and all the "f you" "get the F away from me", "shut your GD mouth"... .it all sickens me when I hear it in my head. 

The only one who ever brought up divorce for years, was HIM. I've just resigned myself to having to leave for my sanity, and for the sake of peace. I can't keep living like this.

There is a really huge difference from making threats and then changing your mind, which is exactly what he does, he's even admitted it. I'm making plans, but I didn't ever want the marriage to end, but I realize now that it's something I have to do FOR ME.

I don't think you are trying to be mean at all, Formflier, but I think you are having a bit too much compassion for someone that has shown very little kindness to me, and he's downright cruel at times. He's admitted as much.

I fail to see at all how I threatened, when I have every intention of leaving. I've never told him this before, and so it clearly isn't a hollow threat. I just want to do it when he's out of town, because he's already making my life hell since I told him, and if he thinks I might stay, I'll be safer. I have to look out for me and my daughter. He's very good at looking out for himself.

[flourdust]

I think I can see what happened here.

As you know, one of the drivers of BPD is fear of abandonment, and the push-pull behaviors they engage in can often be seen as pre-emptive abandonment. The pwBPD will abandon someone first, to avoid being abandoned by that person.

I can completely understand why you want to get divorced. I do not understand why you would want to tell him that you want a divorce but not be ready or willing to take any action to get divorced. All you accomplished was to say "Heads up, husband. I'm going to abandon you." This is like giving him a shot of BPD adrenaline, and you're living with the fallout now.

To make things even more confusing, you're engaging in your own push-pull behaviors. You describe how you are being extra nice to him, trying to have sex with him, not wanting to move out of the house or the bedroom ... .and this is after you told him you want a divorce.

If you wanted to wait for months to make your move by your own timeline, you shouldn't have "informed" him of the divorce. What's done is done. I don't see any way you can undo this, so I suggest you forget about your ideal timeline and get out ASAP.

[formflier]

Hey... .it's me... .FF.  I'm on your side.  I'm here for you.

I 100% agree that he has threatened you, his behavior is horrid, your behavior is much better, you have gotten better... .etc etc.

Please stop thinking about him and read the rest of this... .

I fail to see at all how I threatened, when I have every intention of leaving. 

This is where I think you need to focus.  Focus less on what he does... .because you don't control ANY of that.

You ARE 100% responsible for what comes out of your mouth.

Threats or "vague threats" about ending the relationship are (at a minimum) hurtful to a r/s and in most cases harmful.

So... .the other day my wife said to me after I wanted her to sign a covenant and understanding before reading some legal papers...

She refused... .and said "I hope this is worth our marriage... ." (or words to that effect).  That is a threat.  Sure it was vague and had PA stuff in it... .but it was a threat.  I ignored it.

You can package your words all you want. "informed" ... ."hinted"... ."alluded to"   the meaning is the same.  I'm outta here.

If you were actually leaving, that would be a healthy thing (and show integrity) to say that you are leaving.  Since you are hedging... .or allowing that you  may change your mind... .that is where the "or else" comes in.   The message is clear... ."you change... .or else"  That's a threat.

Last thought:  I do think it is appropriate when you are ready to leave to give choices, but only when you are ready to take action.  Reasoning:  This guy doesn't listen to your words... .he sometimes listens to your actions.

Remember:  I'm for you!

FF

[formflier]

I agree with flourdust's analysis.

If you truly are not hedging and you are truly done.  Leave. 

I'm not seeing that in your writing.  I am seeing hedging.

I'll wait to see your response to my post before saying more.

FF

[schwing]

Hi Ceruleanblue,

Things are not ready for me to leave right now. Why is he acting like this? Do you think I'm right and that he's trying to punish me, and he's clearly pushing me away. He acts like his ego was hurt, and like I betrayed him. I felt every threat and time he cussed me out was a betrayal, but I took it for far too long.

I'll try to describe why I think he acts the way you describe as it relates to BPD as I understand it.  Hopefully this will help you anticipate some of his future behavior and help you make whatever decision is appropriate for you.

When I first let him know I was making plans to leave at some point, due to his threats, he was shocked. Then he started saying things like "stop saying things like that", or making references like we'd be together in the future. THIS from the guy who'd threatened divorce for five years, except for a short 5-6 month period.

You see, people with BPD (pwBPD) can have a disordered fear of abandonment (real or imagined).  I guess whenever he's threatened you with divorce before, it was in response to his *imagined* abandonment.   He imagines that you plan to leave him, gets upset/angry at you, and before when you were not considering leaving him, his fear would abate.

But when *you* bring up the intention to leave him, this is perceived by him as *real* abandonment.  And so he was shocked.  He's not afraid of not being with you, he's afraid of you leaving him first.

Then, we left a family reunion, and I'd only gone at his request, and all was pleasant. On the way home though, he exploded(he almost always does this after formal family events), and he's now SWITCHED, and is saying HE wants a divorce, and he's acting as if it's all his idea, even though I told him two or three weeks ago that I'll give him the divorce he's always threatening... .

I've also observed that for pwBPD, occasions of familial significance and of intimacy can be a trigger for their fear of abandonment.  His *re-imagining* that it was his idea to leave you is his effort to *avoid* abandonment.  You see, if he leaves you (and not you him) then he is not the one who is abandoned.

Why the asking me to leave the bedroom, and acting like I'm now repulsive to him? He's always been really attractive to him, and I've recently lost weight too. ... .This man almost never turns down affection or sex, but now he is, and I know he likely did the same in his past.

I speculate that before, when your "intent" to "abandon" was more in question (in his mind), sex (when you were willing) was "proof" for him that you did not intent to abandon him, that and his physical gratification also.  But now, if he is more convinced that you do intent to "abandon" him (by divorcing him) then perhaps there is nothing left to prove?

Best wishes,

Schwing

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, I can totally see how her took it, but by that point, it was too late. I just felt it was right to inform him that I am making plans. I sure wish I hadn't. Part of me was hoping it would be impetus for him to change, if he really values himself, or me at all. I figured it wouldn't, and it didn't. I'm not sure if he has "fear of abandonment", or he just likes to be the one to end it.

Formflier: I fully get that you are on my side. I hate that there are even "sides", because I don't look at my marriage that way. Part of the whole issues is that we never could be a team, and he can't let anyone close, really.

I'm not trying to do any push/pull, as that is his schtick, but I can see how from the outside it looks that way. I am just trying to have peace until I get plans in order. I was open to staying, if things improved, as in he'd really control himself(because he clearly, clearly can when he wants to), but that is not the case. I'm having to make decisions on what IS, instead of what I'd like to have had happen.

He's feeling rejected, but that was never my intent. I've tried to clarify that to him, but he just skews my words. He knows if he said the right things, I'd stay a bit longer to see. But he won't, and I truly can't do this anymore.

The only way I can see us having a not hostile, excuciating three months, is if I'm giving him sex, and playing along like I'm so sorry I said I'd leave him.

I have no other options here, as there is no room for me at my parents right now, and no way to move my stuff there right now. I simply can't just leave right now, even though logically I know that's the best.

I sure wish I hadn't told him I was making plans, but he kept questioning me, and I hate to lie. I've been lied to so much. He tells me he doesn't blame me for making plans, but I'd bet he really does.

On the plus side, I had a great therapy session today with my therapist who knows BPDh well. She said just try to maintain peace, and maybe explain to him that there was some miscommunication. I'm not sure how to have that conversation, because pretty much anything sets him off, even prior to all this.

Maybe, I'll have to figure out somewhere else to go if things get uglier. I think I told him I was making plans because him walking out last time was so awful feeling, in light off all I'd endured from him. It felt like the hugest slap in the face. I felt like this time, I wanted to be the one saying "I deserve better". I just didn't know he was going to expect me to leave right then. His past pattern with his ex, was move her to the spare room, and "work on things". I didn't get the "work on things", but I got kicked out of the bedroom. He's just repeating history, only I didn't cheat on him.

I guess the cat's out of the bag, and I'll just have to see what he does. Boy, aren't I used to that. I know I'm leaving, but it's safer for me if he thinks I've changed my mind, or am holding out hope(I'm not, I just need time to prepare)... .

I hope this makes some sense. Even my thinking processes aren't functioning very well lately. I can't remember things, I have panic attacks, I'm anxious, and I'm scared. I know I can do what I have to though.

It was important to me that this time, I was the one saying, I'm not living like this forever. I just never expected he'd take it as "I'm leaving next week". With his ex it was all about "working on things", and taking it slow. I expected that too, but I certainly didn't get that.

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Cerulean,
I've been one of those people who've nudged you, or did more than that  , toward leaving. I feel like you've given this relationship your best and you won't regret ending it. I'm glad you've arrived at the place where you realize that you deserve to be treated well and it's unlikely that this man will ever do that. I'm also sorry that that seems to be the reality you're experiencing. I think you've made great progress and as hard as it is, accepting "what is" rather than holding out hope for "what could be" is so very important.

I'm glad you're making positive plans for your future. My concern now is for your safety. As flourdust said, it would be ideal if you could leave immediately, but I do understand why that's problematic. Are there any domestic abuse shelters you could apply to in your area for a safe transition? You do qualify for that, based upon what you've endured. And abusers, as you probably well know, tend to be more dangerous when they know the target of their abuse is planning to leave.

It seems like a betrayal to yourself to "make nice" and be available for sex, when you undoubtedly don't feel that way in your heart of hearts. Good luck and be especially kind to yourself now.   

Cat

[formflier]

Ugg ugg ugg... .    

Listen... .what can you do for a day or two that focuses on self care.

What I'm hearing is that the plan is you are going to leave in 3 months and that there are no options to go anywhere else before then.  

And that in an attempt to keep the peace for three months you are going to give in to his desires... .

I can't figure out if I want to send you virtual hugs... .or post red flags.

3 months is a long time.  

What is going to be different about the next three months, than the last?

FF

[formflier]

It seems like a betrayal to yourself to "make nice" and be available for sex, when you undoubtedly don't feel that way in your heart of hearts. Good luck and be especially kind to yourself now.   

Cat

Thanks Cat... .I was trying to figure out how to say this... .and obviously couldn't figure it out.

Where is CB going to be for next three months... .who is CB going to be... .where are her values?

FF

[Verbena]

I have to agree that waiting three months to leave given the current situation is a bad idea. Is there a way you could move out while he is at work? Can you get someone (or several people) to come over and help you move out quickly?

[MaybeSo]

He doesn't sound like a person who would handle 3 months of anticipating being left very well. That would be a stretch for even a reasonable and balanced person.

[Verbena]

It was just about three months ago that I said to my husband for the final time that I could not continue living this way and then asked him for the final time if he could see our marriage getting better.  His answer was "I suppose not."  
At that point, he had already refused three times to go to counseling as well as refused to discuss our issues with me or take an ounce of responsibility for anything.

It hasn't been a fun three months.  He is still here but must move out by the end of this month per the temorary orders he signed.  :)ivorce should be final  a few weeks after that, shortly before our 34th anniversary.  

My husband has played lots of passive aggressive games these past three months and is certainly not easy to be around, but your situation seems really different.  I don't think you're physically safe in your home right now.  Staying for another three months is a bad idea.  Anything could happen. 

You're really sitting on a powder keg, CB, and I am concerned for you.  I don't think pretending you didn't mean it when you said you were leaving is going to work out well.  If nothing else, he could throw you out in a fit of rage and force you to find somewhere to go at a moment's notice.   Please don't let it come to that.  

Go to a shelter if you have to.  Move in temporarily with a friend if you have to.  Let your parents know you must get out asap, for your safety.  

[formflier]

Or, stay for 3 months and put heart and soul into healthy relationship skills.  At the end of 3 months, look at reality and decided to stay longer, or leave

CB... .I'm not picking on you with the following statement... .but sharing what I see is reality.  I'm not seeing you being healthy enough to pull this off... .right now.  It's obvious that you need a lot of self care to get back to a place of being able to make healthy decisions in the face of all the crap he is tossing at you.

Right now, the option you seem to be picking is the one I would rank at the bottom.  To change words a bit, it seems that the strategy is to stay for 3 months and APPEASE him to keep the peace.

Human history... .and I think most relationship experts would say that appeasement is a VERY BAD strategy.  Especially in the face of someone that is so aggressive.

Seriously.  What happens when you appease a bully?  What happened at the start of WWII when Chamberlin tried to appease Hitler

 

Very concerned here... .

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I can totally see why you all are worried for me, but I feel I AM looking out for me now. I mean, I know him and his reactions better than anyone else. He's not being super evil right now, just cold and distant, which my therapist thinks is his form of punishing me. I offered him sex, only because it's been such a gripe for him, and because I thought it would give him some comfort. Emotionally, he's very immature, and to him, sex means love(and domination). If I wasn't in an emotionally healthy place, I'd just leave.

I feel I'm strong enough to endure this. I'm feeling rather empowered, along with scared, and it's setting off some anxiety. The anxiety is nothing new, he's kept me in that state for years with the abuse, and threats. I can sort of separate myself though, and tell myself I'm just getting along for a PURPOSE: getting out with better preparation, and more on my terms this time. I know you all are having trouble understanding that, but it's a huge deal for me. It's sort of my "remember the Alamo". I very much remember who what he did last time, felt so much worse because he left when I was trying harder then ever, and when I was really, really in a low place. I'm healthier now.

He says he haunted by seeing me that low a couple years ago, and I think he has brief moments of clarity and guilt. He goes right back to blaming and putting it on me though. I don't fear he'll hurt me. He's so narcissistic, and I don't think he'd want that to get known. He knows I'd call the police, and he'd likely get thrown out. I think he's just trying to punish me for making plans. I felt cornered and didn't want to be blindsided like last time.

Plus, when I was apartment hunting a couple months back, he asked me to please stop, and he'd do better. I wasn't hopeful, but was willing to let him try. He hasn't been better, even though I did as he requested, in fact he's been worse. He says he says the threats, but then changes his mind. Well, to ME, it doesn't feel that way, because he's actually LEFT in the past.

I honestly don't feel I did this to falsely threaten him. I just have tried to always be kind, but honest with him, and he also knew I was open to negotiation, or to listen to him, but he's too prideful, and dominant, and abusive to feel HE needs to do any of those things.

I know I'll get though this, although I'm having anxiety, and am scared about all the changes. I'm also mourning what I thought he was, and what I thought the marriage could be. But I also feel after all this, I'm owed the right to now leave willy nilly, and I have no friends to take me in where we moved to, and my parents place is not cleared out enough for me to even live there.

Really guys, I'm doing what I feel is best, and my therapist didn't tell me to just get out now. She's been a great resource for me, and hasn't steered me wrong yet. She just said to keep a bag packed in case he turns aggressive, but she thinks, after having dealt with him so much, that he's enjoying this punishment phase.

I do thank you all for your concern, and I could use continued support. I'm working my way out, but I don't want thrown out of my home, and I want a place to actually move that is livable, and that is going to take a little time. I'm actually having moments of feeling empowered. Please don't make me feel badly for that. It's taken me a long time to get here

[formflier]

If you can clearly answer the following question... .I'll feel more comfortable with this.

When it gets to be too much... .and I need to leave tonight.  I'm going to go (fill in the blank).

What's the plan?  Has the plan be thought through?  Rehearsed?

If you need to execute this plan... .there will not be time for reflection and deep thought.

FF

[flourdust]

Absolutely agree with FF's questions. And do not procrastinate about getting that go-bag packed and accessible.

A few thoughts for you to consider... .

If he was hitting you, would you say that you want to stick around while you carefully work your plan to depart?

Don't make a trade-off between your safety (emotional as well as physical) and convenience.

Don't hang around because it's financially convenient. Any money he's earned or assets acquired since the wedding are yours as well. And don't avoid spending it on a place to live because you're imagining that you'll want to have it around after the divorce. The divorce will make the money go away really, really quickly, so spend it now rather than giving it to lawyers!

[Notwendy]

When I read that you informed him of your plans, my first thought was that, if you want to leave your relationship, this is not the way to leave someone who is potentially reactive and abusive.

Most areas have a local DV shelter. We have one in our area. It is a non-profit and people help raise funds for it because the women who arrive at the shelter do so with only the clothes on their back and their children. They have an escape plan because the act of leaving is so triggering that their partners are most likely to be harmful when they are abandoned or threatened with abandonment.

While your H may not have seriously beat you, the act of leaving him may actually be the least safe for you, if not physically, then perhaps emotionally.

Since you have been working with your T, and she has advised you to gradually prepare to leave, I don't know if including "telling" him was part of that plan. She may have been working you getting to a place where you can take action.

I don't know why therapists have given up on him- but perhaps it is because "talking" doesn't seem to work with him. Boundaries are not about talking. They are about taking action. Talking without action makes your words meaningless.

Much of the content of your posts is about him. He did this, he said that, he threatened. It is up to you to decide to leave or not, however, if you were done with this, your actions would be based on you and keeping yourself safe.

Leaving a marriage has a price- financial, emotional. Yet people choose this when the emotional "cost" of their marriage exceeds this.  When negotiating isn't possible ( when words don't work) sometimes people take a financial loss. In your case, there doesn't seem to be too much of this- if he is in debt ( which may be a joint responsibility) and you don't have children to share custody with- there may be little to argue over. If there is something to discuss between you, it can be done between mediators/lawyers.

If you are ready to leave, discussing it make words ineffective in the moment ( because when he is triggered he may be emotionally reactive and your words will not be received in the way you intend them to be ), and may possibly put you in an unsafe situation. Since you are working on this with a T, I hope she can help advise and support you through what steps to take now.

If you do not want to leave, then bringing up the topic - and not leaving can undermine your words.

[formflier]

If you do not want to leave, then bringing up the topic - and not leaving can undermine your words.

Again... thanks to another poster for clarifying my thoughts.

I'm leaving and now I'm trying to have sex with you is a very confusing message for a "normal" person.  For a pwBPD... .it is likely an explosive one... that could send him over the edges.

Please... .discuss this with your T.  Make sure you are on same page with the T's advice and your actions.

FF

[HopefulDad]

Re: The ultimatum.  What's done is done.  Move forward.

Re: Moving forward.  Fear of the unknown can be crippling.  CB, any anxiety about your future is completely understood.  If you decide to make a clean break to start fresh, the storm of uncertainties that give you any pause now will be navigated, sometimes masterfully and other times clumsily.  But make no mistake: You will navigate the storm.  And after the storm clears and the waters calm, you will smile with the satisfaction that you did it. 

[Notwendy]

I wanted to add that turning the focus on you isn't being mean or cruel. It is because you are the only one that you have any control over. Sure, your H can say or do whatever, but the part of that that is under your control is your actions, not his.

Yes, he has threatened divorce, then asked you for sex, and done all kinds of things. His actions may influence your decisions and responses. But ultimately your decisions and actions are your responsibility.

For your words to have meaning, they need to be consistent with your actions. Also speaking or taking action with the intent of having an effect on him could be construed as being manipulative or co-dependent.

Telling your spouse you have plans to leave has an impact. Regardless of whether or not he has done it, meant it, whatever, that is his responsibility. Both of you are responsible for your words and actions, but you only have your side to control.

It makes sense to be fearful and conflicted about leaving. It is a big step into an unknown. Yet  this is something to face if it is what you want.

[Cloudy Days]

When I was actively thinking about leaving my husband his therapist told me it was important that he didn't know of any plans until I was ready to execute those plans. I think that is really important for the relationship to have any value before someone decides to leave. I know that when things were bad, the one thing that would set him off the most was me agreeing to divorce him. Usually at his request and me agreeing would totally throw him for a loop, which proves he didn't mean it. I know you think you are being kind to your husband by giving him a heads up or even giving him a chance to change to prevent you from leaving but the reality of it, is that he's not capable of processing those emotions for 3 months. It's going to make your life that much harder if he is in on it. A normal person would have a hard time dealing with that thought for three months so someone suffering from BPD would be a mess for those three months.

Not really sure what you can do now, but since you are still there maybe don't bring it up again until you are fully ready to move out.