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[Gorges]

I can't make this stuff up. I have been away from my daughter for 5 glorious months. She could not come to Europe with us because she got into legal trouble for attacking another girl (with her best friend). We agreed that she could come our last month here and I had hoped that she had matured.

Today at the Duomo in Florence, Italy she was told that she could not come in because her shorts were too short. We quickly told her we would meet her outside afterwards. We ran through the church to get back to her. But, I didnt have tons of sympathy because she flaunts dress codes and did not listen to me earlier in the day about church attire although I did not know shorts were a problem.

Anyway, when we got to her outside, she was sticking up her middle fingers at the chuch and ranting about "rape culture" and cursed something.

I grabbed her, told her to knock it off and then separated myself from her for the rest of the day. She is 18.  My husband talked to her about how wrong her behavior was but got over it. By the time I got back to the hotel they were planning dinner out.

I explained to her that people payed a lot of money to travel to Europe and that they did not deserve to see her vulgar displays. I also thought them going out and having a fun time was wrong given what she had done that afternoon.

I told my husband I will see them at the train tomorrow. I do not want to do anything

with them. I am very mad and have a right to feel that way.

My daughter says 'there is something

wrong with you' because I am so upset.

She can really ruin anything.  I didnt even get upset at her the day before

when she threw a hissy fit

at the Gucci museum because she was uncomfortable with her dress. I just walked away and let her calm down.

I am so ashamed of my daughter and was hoping she was becoming more "Normal'. Right now I am in the hotel bathroom because I want to avoid her.My husband is sound asleep.

I do feel better writing this down. Too embarrassing to tell anyone.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Naughty Nibbler]

Gorges:

Keep posting and writing out your frustrations.  Is it possible to send your daughter back home early?  You are in a tough situation, with traveling.  Do you feel a bit like a hostage right now (like she feels empowered in the vacation situation)?

I hope things get better.  Hate to have you have a month of misery. 

I've read that vacations can be a challenge with BPDs and some advice given is to keep validating.  You have probably read about validation, but a refresher couldn't hurt.  Here is a link:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation

[Gorges]

I am having a hard time validating right now because her behavior was so offensive. Also, last night she was up on her phone at 3:30am, She is not bothering to take care of her emotional health. She defends her action by saying how disrespected she was. I validated her disappointment in being left out of the church. But did point out other viewpoints.  I am not sure how they will change if we don't point out different ways of looking at things.


I am validating my own feelings. I am telling my family I am offended, angry and ashamed. I cannot just quickly get over this. I feel trust needs to be rebuilt before I engage again in the relationship. A bit hard when you are on vacation.

We new this would be bad so we made provisions where we could easily separate. For example, we are only taking public transport. Next hotel we are in separate rooms.

[Lollypop]

Hi Gorges

I feel for you, I really do.

The last time our BPDs came on holiday was 5 years ago. I remember him "packing" with dirty clothes. It was embarrassing to walk beside him as he looked such a state. His choice of clothing was just inappropriate, hood up etc. This was pre-diagnosis.

I realise now that the trip was a big deal, too big a deal for him to cope with emotionally. He's got in trouble on every trip he ever made in school or college and was quoted as a "delinquent" on a college trip to Madrid.

Despite these failures, he did learn something about other cultures. It wasn't until he travelled independently that he started to understand the requirement to change his attitude and approach. For instance, his dress choice was so bad he got picked up by the police as they assumed he was homeless.

He learns the hard way, always.

Your daughter is very fortunate to be on this trip. She'll be learning too, even when it doesn't look like it. The Italians are very relaxed and would ignore her ranting in the street or be a bit bemused. You're of course right about the church dress code. Visiting churches is part of any holiday in Europe and I'm sure you'll want to see others. Your daughter can decide herself whether or not she wants dress more appropriately if she wants to go inside. If not, you could arrange to meet her after you've taken in those sights you want to see.

I remember standing in an airport queue in Egypt feeling mortified as some of my fellow Englishman. A Muslim country with expected ways of dressing. There my fellow passengers were dressed in boob tubes, shorts and big fat bellied men shirtless! In the airport! I had a girlfriend who told me how some Egyptian policeman was letching at her when she was waiting to cross a street, she was so angry and embarrassed - yep, you guessed it, she was practically in a bathing suit in a country where woman cover themselves up. A complete clash of cultures.  As the saying goes "when in Rome... .".

You've got a whole month with your daughter and an opportunity to help show her how it's done. My experience is that it takes time and more than a trip or two.  I see now that exposure to challenges of being outside their comfort zone only helps build resilience. I lightened up on our trip. I was really disappointed BPDs chose not to join us at certain times, he missed out, but I didnt.

Your daughter would most probably have felt humiliated at being denied access. She retaliated. She may have a different opinion on religion now, she may hate the "stupid" rules, she may even hate Italy! Surely not! Its an Eden and, in my humble opinion,  the most beautiful place in the world.

If you get the time, take the train to Sienna, the public bus to San Giminano. We had such adventures, made mistakes and laughed - I'll admit we didn't take the kids!

I really hope you're holiday improves for you all. We go at the end of July and I'm getting nervous already - rightfully so too. BPD and holidays are a challenge.

Take care of yourself

[Gorges]

Thanks for your reply. It makes me feel like I can try doing something again with her. Today I toured around by myself because I needed time away to cool down.

[saphirewidow]

It is hard when our kids embarrass us.  Remember to separate yourself from her behavior.  Radical acceptance is really hard sometimes.  You are not responsible for her behavoir, you are only responsible for your own behavior.  Your pride is hurt with everyone watching and her being so out of control and annoying and that breeds anger and hurt that she doesn't care how her behavior affects others. Her ranting and carrying on... .yes super  embarrasing... .let it go.  Let her learn from the experience and decide if she wants to change her dress for the next church or not.  Set some boundaries for her. Let her know your boundaries and rather then getting angry if she breaks them, just let her know you will meet her later because you don't want to hang out with her while she is breaking your boundaries. But I think holding onto your anger hurts you and it also provides her with the power of being able to hurt you and also it lets her play the victim both in her own mind and with your husband because big mean mommy is having a hissy fit. 

[BowlOfPetunias]

"I explained to her that people payed a lot of money to travel to Europe and that they did not deserve to see her vulgar displays."

People also live in Europe.  And Mexico.  And Brazil.  And any other place you visit with the exception of Antarctica.  Concern and respect for the people who live there come above concern for fellow tourists.  I would tell her, "Stop acting like a spoiled tourist.  We are guests in this country and we need to show proper respect for our hosts."

[Gorges]

Dear bowl of petunias and all others-

yes we had discussed that with her multiple times before and after the incident. I am sorry that my omission of that fact is offensive.

I was not posting to find new ways of telling my daughter how awful she was. I was posting to find a way to cope with a child whose actions I find just as bratty and disgusting as you do.

I want to thank everyone who helped me cope. I realize that this problem is small compared to others so I appreciate everyone's time.

Lollipop-your comment was the best about how relaxed the Italians are-very true! That is one reason why I knew the tourists would be more offended by this than Italians... .

I am doing much better now, the time away was good. I decided not to give up on her or our relationship and I hope she learned something.

[sad_soul]

WOW Gorges, when I read your post I literally could feel the fire in my face for you! There have been soo many times my BPD daughter (16) embarrassed me in public and you just want to curl up in a ball and die... .I TOTALLY GET IT! And you're HUMAN, of course you are gonna get angry and embarrassed and blame her for ruining any semblance of good moments in your life... .I can't count how many times I felt like my daughter "ruins everything" and I would have felt like can't I just enjoy the FREAKING CHURCH! But the one thing that helps me get through those moments and love her anyways, include her anyways, try again is that I try to remember if she's working that hard to make everyone else around her feel that bad then how bad must she be feeling inside   and then my anger turns to empathy and I can "get over it"... .But I know it's a hard pill to swallow... .like more like a boulder... .hang in there, try again, and just keep trying to have a life.  I think sometimes my life just becomes a by-product of my daughter's life, but when you make a decision that you have a right to live too then you can separate yourself from the chaos BPDs create constantly.  xx   

[Gorges]

thank you, that is really great advice to remember.

Since my post, my daughter has shown great respect for our host country. Offering to do language exchanges, going on hot, boring (even I had a tough time with some of these) excursions without a complaint.

We have not ventured into another church but I bought a large scarf at a flea market just in case.

She still dresses in a "va va voom" style but it is not any different than some of the beautiful Italian woman that we see so I think I need to give this one up since she is 18, works and buys her own clothes.

that said, her outburst was unacceptable and we maintain that... .learning to control your anger is a life long process!