Twice bitten: so many false accusations I'm losing touch with reality (part 3)

[2020]

Continued from: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=330595.0 I am finding things so very difficult right now.

Yesterday she hid from me most of the day. I went looking for her twice but she had barricaded herself into a room at the warehouse. Later when I saw her she denied this and the conversation became heated until the point where I had to leave. At 2am she was banging on the bedroom window and I woke up and opened it. She came in and said she knows I don't want her around, or words to that effect. (She is extremely picky about EXACT wording, who said what. I am sure she would disagree with what I have just written). I said she can come in but she walked away. I went back to sleep and about an hour later she returned and climbed into bed.

This morning we had coffee and she left as I had to drive my son to school. I told her I would be at the warehouse soon. Her reply was, "Sure. You have a lovely day". When I arrived at the warehouse she was nowhere to be found. I know she was hiding again because the place smelt like cigarette smoke and there were two butts in the ashtray, one of which where warm. I called out but she did not reply so I left.

I then telephoned a DBT treatment centre I found online. They are 150km away so it isn't too far to do weekly appointments. It would be costly as the program is generally a year, maybe more. It includes seeing a psychologist and group work. She has studied Psychology in the past for quite some time. I am hopeful she may be open to something like this but I don't know how to suggest this to her. She would need to be open to admitting she is not coping and needs helping. I just saw her and she was in quite a desperate state. She is drinking red wine and is emotionally volatile. She is blaming my kids and I for her sadness. I tried validating but she got really worked up and I thought she might hit me so I left. I asked her if she would consider seeing a professional but she accused me of pathologising her. She said she knows what her issue is: loneliness, extreme anxiety, abandonment and severe depression. I told her I would try to help her if she wanted that but she waved her middle finger at me and I had to leave.

I am worried about this. I am worried she will harm herself again. To be clear, in the ten years I have known her, the past two months have been the worst I have seen her in. It has reached crisis point. We went to Europe for five weeks in May/June. Since we have returned, she has gone ballistic. Earlier I suggested that perhaps we could agree on some basic things. For example: We have coffee together at the warehouse in the morning, and after that I spend and hour or two doing my other chores. Then we go drawing outside locally for an hour. Midday we work until 7pm. We have dinner and spend time on our own projects. We go to bed at 11pm. We always go to bed together, even if the day has soured, providing there isn't violence or things being smashed up. She said nothing other than "Go home and do this with your wife"... .

I'm finding it difficult to be calm and composed. I guess I will just try again in an hour or so. She is seven years younger than me. I half expect I'll be standing at her grave one day sprinking dirt before my time is up. I pray that isn't just around the corner.

Thanks for listening. I know there are others in a similar boat. Wishing you all strength.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[pearlsw]

Hi 2020,

Glad you are sticking with the community here! It can take a lot of talking over time to work through such things.
Nice to hear that you found this program and want to suggest it to her!  

It's important that you are calm and can hear past some of the nasty packaging her emotions are being expressed with and try to recognize what is going on underneath things.

Can you tell us more about your efforts at validating so we can all take a look and see how that is going for you, if it might need some tweaking? I know it is not easy to find the right words sometimes, especially when you are going through a rolling/ongoing crisis here.

Her issues with drinking are definitely going to make this more complicated - the alcohol is surely enhancing her emotional extremes even more!

take care, pearl.

[2020]

Yes Pearl. You have really hit the nail on the head. The drinking isn't helping at all.

Two days ago I completely lost my cool. She was attacking me saying what a useless piece of ____ I am, and thank ____ I stopped breeding after I had three; two live and one dead. I walked away. Then she came back four hours later and wanted to talk. Again I got told I don't care about her so I was completely honest and open. I told her it might be possible she is Borderline. I told her there is help available and I would not abandon her and that it isn't her fault. I said that perhaps she could consider DBT? She completely flipped! I refused to leave. I told her I had telephoned a centre which can help people with BPD. She accused me of pathologising her. I told her not to take my word for it as I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist, but why not get a professional opinion? She then yelled at me saying she is offended I think she is not open to the therapeutic process. She claimed I had prisoned her in the warehouse. I said this was not my intention and that we need to try and build trust. I suggested that we need to agree, providing there is no physical violence, we should always spend the night together in bed. I walked home with her and we went to bed. The next day she was accusing me of intentionally making her watch Paterson by Jim Jarmusch because I want a girlfriend like the character in the movie... . 

Today my sister emailed and is coming to visit. My partner has now gone to the warehouse. I just went down the road to see her and take some music over on a USB drive and she was angry about her fan not working. She is blaming my son who last used it. I think the motor has just burnt out. Things just don't last these days. I will walk back to the warehouse and tell her I can see she is upset with the fan. I'll tell her that I'd be pretty upset about it too. I will add that my son should not have used it. Perhaps that will help? I find this validation difficult.

I'll see what happens today. I think I'll get a book to write some notes in. I need to keep track of things. I'll keep record of the validation I tried. I will be seeing my therapist next week... .

Thanks Pearl for your suggestions and compassion.

[livednlearned]

2020,

Setting limits is more important than validation in your situation, especially when alcohol and violence is involved.

You cannot use a garden hose on a fire that is engulfing the house.

One dynamic to be aware of is that she uses her environment to regulate her emotions.

When she is out of control, it is terrifying and bad things happen. Without others setting limits for her, she has nothing to contain her.

You set limits and then walk them back, and this is going to be a hard habit to break, for both of you.

Work with friends here to figure out what those limits are -- be very specific. And be very honest with yourself what your true limits are. Don't commit to a limit that you know you can't keep.

Right now the main thing is to assure yourself that you can set and keep limits. Maybe start with something small. "When I go to the warehouse and she does not answer, I will walk away." Don't pursue her when she doesn't answer.

Or maybe it's a more substantial limit. "I will lock my window and refuse to allow her to enter my bedroom that way."

People use doors to enter buildings.

I know you two are artists, but she needs someone to help her with basic boundaries, even if only symbolic.

[2020]

Last night my sister stayed over. She booked a table at a restaurant for three. I went up to the warehouse but my partner said she wasn't going to dinner. I left and went to dinner with my sister.

I just went up to the warehouse and was accused of preferring to spend my life with my abusive children rather than her. She was also angry because I slept on the couch here rather than up there with her. She said I had not even bothered taking my sister to the warehouse to visit. I said that was because you didn't want to see her and because you were unhappy. She denied this. I said, "So you're happy". she said she was as happy as could be expected since I decided not to be part of her life.

By this point I had already fallen into a circular argument trap and was JADE-ing away. I just lost it. I am normally a very patient person. I told her that if she wanted to be with me then she needs to get assessed and go into therapy. She got very angry and told me not to pathologise her. I told her not to take my word for it; go and see an expert. She screamed at me to get out of her life. I left.

So right now today, I am over this BS. I would rather go through the pain of a break up than the daily pain of looking after a child trapped in a womans' body. This is a joke. I can't do this anymore. It might be time to move into those lower subforums. Seriously, she can go ____ herself! 

[pearlsw]

Hi 2020,

Sorry to hear about this rough time!

How was the weekend? How are you feeling now?

warmly, pearl.

[2020]

Hello Pearl... .Yes, I am still alive. I am communicating with my partner again. We are sleeping in the same bed but we are distant. I have these moments where I just want to throw it all in.

Yesterday morning she said she was interested in ringing a therapist and asked me for the contact details of this place which offers DBT. I showed her the website on my computer but as soon as she read "Dialectical behavioural therapy (DBT) is a psychological treatment developed by Prof. Marsha M. Linehan, a psychology researcher originally from the University of Washington, to treat persons with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)", she appeared highly offended and left the room via the window (this 'window' entry/exit is a new thing. It is because she does not want to see my children. She won't use the toilet in the house either). Today she woke up before me and said she was leaving. I really wish she would give this DBT place a try. I think it could really help her. I guess telling her I thought she may have BPD wasn't the best idea. I have just become so very frustrated. Today I feel calmer. I was doing my own this yesterday during the day and will be making sure I do my own work again today. I need to make some money the next few weeks. All this mayhem really upsets the applecart.

This is now page 6. I don't know how much longer this will go on for. In many ways I feel like an idiot putting up with this. We just keep going back for more, don't we?

[pearlsw]

Hello Pearl... .Yes, I am still alive. I am communicating with my partner again. We are sleeping in the same bed but we are distant. All this mayhem really upsets the applecart.

This is now page 6. I don't know how much longer this will go on for. In many ways I feel like an idiot putting up with this. We just keep going back for more, don't we?

Hi 2020,

No worries about the pages! We're here! But you should start a new thread with your next reply! We stop them at 6 pages because past that it is too much to read on phones I think.

Yep. It is pretty risky to mention to an emotionally sensitive person that they need to talk to a therapist! They will likely hear that you think something is wrong with them and not like hearing that!

Have you tried calling it "emotional sensitivity" instead of BPD? That worked for me a bit to say something along the lines of "we all have emotions" some people just have very strong ones. My SO was very clear that he felt crazy and out of control at times so it comforted him to hear it talked about in a sweet way instead of feeling like he was hopelessly damaged. Maybe you could talk about it as just a communication tool? Artists use various tools. It's okay to experiment and try things. Make it as positive as you can and take the blaming out of the conversation. Try to be upbeat. Get yourselves on the same side - the two of you wanting things to better so life can be more enjoyable.

Try to be gentle about it. How you talk with her about it.

Oh yes, I hear ya, when I think of the time eaten up over the years dealing with someone else's extreme behavior... .Sigh!

warmly, pearl.

[2020]

Thank you pearl for your dedication to my struggles, and to the other people here on this forum. You are a gem!

I am off to see my therapist now. I will discuss a few things with him. I'll start a new thread later.

Thanks!

[Radcliff]

It's been a few days.  How are you doing?  Yes, members to talk to their partners about BPD typically have bad experiences.  I wouldn't bring up BPD again, but if she does, you can apologize and say that you don't care about labels, aren't qualified to diagnose anything, and are sorry to have hurt her. 

Don't push DBT too hard.  The skills taught in DBT can be useful for everyone.  You can refer to DBT as skills training, because that is what it is -- teaching tools to manage out of control emotions.  After her upset about BPD, I'd let things cool a bit before bringing up DBT again.

What do you think about livednlearned's thoughts and questions about boundaries?

[2020]

Hello, I am still here. A month on and I am not seeing much change in my life. It has been useful checking back here after a few weeks. I was not really coping earlier. I am getting the cold shoulder treatment again tonight. I am baffled as to what brought this on. The past seven days have been mostly bad. This present forum thread is getting long now so I might have to start another sorry story... .

[formflier]

  I am baffled as to what brought this on. 

 

One of the parts of "radical acceptance" that I still struggle with is that baffling and wacky things just happen.

It's who they are.

It likely has very little to do with you

That can be really hard to process... .

FF

[2020]

Thanks FF. Hearing it likely has very little to do with me helps. A lot. It's almost 2am here. I'm having trouble coping. She's gone into hiding somewhere. We were getting on a week ago. It's like the weather. Suddenly it rains. All I can do right now is read here. I'll try and figure out what the issue is, this particular time, and see if others can enlighten me. It just never stops.

[formflier]

  It's like the weather.

Suddenly it rains.

 All I can do right now is read here. 

You already know... .although I don't think you believe you know.

When it rains... you go inside.  Do you spend time figuring out why it's raining? 

Sure... you can be sad the yardwork isn't getting done... .or the walk you wanted to take has been delayed... .but life goes on.

Guess what... .  What happens with the rain?  The sun comes out... . 

How much time do you spend figuring out the weather?    How does that apply to your relationship?

FF

[Radcliff]

It's been a few days, how are you doing?

[If you reply here, go ahead and do a recap of the situation and your current thoughts, and your key questions, something that could serve as the start of a new thread, and I'll split it off into a new thread and make links between them.]

RC

[2020]

Thanks Radcliff and Formflyer. I have been wanting to start a new thread but haven't been feeling too good. I don't know what to say. I feel like an idiot for still being in this misery. I have been thinking about what you last posted FF. Very wise words. There is some beautiful writing to be found on this site. I am reading more than I am posting. I apologise for not being able to contribute to other stories. I am very much a novice. I am trying to make sense of this.

For the past 22 days now I have been 'split' black. It started one morning when my son had blocked the toilet with paper again. My partner disappeared to the warehouse up the road whilst I was making coffee. I knew I was in the  so I stayed away for a couple of hours, then ventured up the road with the computer to draft dress patterns for her. She completely lost it at me. Said I have chosen my abusive kids over her. She told me to  off, so I went home.

I have tried repeatedly to console her over the weeks. She will not budge. She has dug her heels in deep. She is smoking a huge amount and getting drunk every day. Usually by midnight or so, she returns to the bedroom and we sleep in the same bed. She complains about not having a sex life but has rejected every advance I have made over the past week or so. I get told I am disgusting. She claims I won't touch her but when I try to hug her, she pushes me away. Whatever abuse I receive during a day, I make nice meals and feed her, at least when she is open to that idea. She appears to like to suffer and will reject any attempt I make to help her. It is like she wants to play the part of "poor me"... .kind of like Phillip K Dick eating dog food.

Today she woke up here and I made us a coffee. She refused to use the toilet and went up the road to the warehouse to sew. I went there an hour later and I proposed we should be planning the next week out, writing down what needed to be done, and seeing if we can achieve some goals to make our lives better. Most of the plans were built around her projects. I offered to redraw and print this skirt pattern she needs. I said I would get the logo for the woven labels done. I encouraged her to complete some of these items she has started. I praised her ability. It really did no use. She simply said she would rather die.

I returned home to do some of my own work. I felt drained and had a nap. She woke me up climbing through the window (she won't use the door as she thinks my kids are going to kill her). I asked her to lay next to me and we were speaking relaxed for a minute or two, then she started on how much she hates my kids and by default, me. I told her I love my kids. Yes, they can be a pain at times, but I am their dad and I love them. She got really angry. Accused me of going to England and telling my Aunty and my Grandmother how awful they are, yet I come back here and I am a hypocrite. She said I drove all over Europe telling everyone how much I hated my kids. This is nonsense. She left via the window stating she was off to the shop to get some food.

She returned an hour later and tried to engage me on how awful my children are and how I let them get away with abuse. I couldn't take it much more so told her that in actual fact, they are far less abusive than you are right now. She didn't like that. She stormed off and about an hour later she returned, drunk, via the window, and proceeded to pour a bottle of beer over my head. I grabbed the bottle from her and told her to get out. She struggled a bit but I got her out of the window. She was yelling at how my Aunty was shocked at the way my kids treat me. How my therapist can't believe how awful my son is. How I have broken her... .It was all drunken  .

I locked the house and have just washed my sheets and clothes and now I have some peace   . I sent her a short email saying:

Your violence is shameful.
This is what I deserve is it?
For what? For being a hypocrite?
You need to apologise.

Her answer has predictably been:
  off you piece of 

So I don't know what to do about this. I am (yet again) questioning why I am even bothering with this person. I have known her for 10 years and this is a common theme. It is now three weeks of constant war. For all her accusations of hypocrisy, she is the one who said five years ago that she had given up alcohol for good. Three weeks ago she stopped smoking for ever, then restarted five days later (my fault). A couple of months ago she said she would never get physically violent again. Last week she was bending my fingers in a rage; tonight she pours beer all over me and the bed.

Well that is the recap. This current battle will no doubt go on for some time yet. Three weeks is nothing. She had done 10 months before! I don't think I should give her any attention tonight, or tomorrow. Or even for a while longer. I want this to stop. I need a break. I have pleaded with her to reconcile with me and get along. She is making no effort at all. I guess I am just going to have to sit this out.

Thanks for listening.

[formflier]

I am very much a novice. I am trying to make sense of this.

We were all novices at one point.  I'm breaking up some things that jumped out at me.  I would encourage you to look for "themes".  Then I would encourage you to pick a thing or two that you want to learn more about and work on.  (don't try to solve all this at once)

  I stayed away for a couple of hours, then ventured up the road with the computer to draft dress patterns for her. She completely lost it at me. Said I have chosen my abusive kids over her. She told me to  off, so I went home.

Help me understand why you went up there?  Do you usually go after her?  What happens when you let her go... .do her thing... and return?

I have tried repeatedly to console her over the weeks.

How is that working out for you?   

Might be a good think to share some details of what "consoling" looks like.

She complains about not having a sex life but has rejected every advance I have made over the past week or so. I get told I am disgusting. She claims I won't touch her but when I try to hug her, she pushes me away.

So... .since she claims one thing and then rejects.  Do you think this is about sex or do you think it's about something else?

Since she isn't getting sex out of it... .why do you think she would do this?

Might be a good idea to share some he said she said about this.  We may be able to suggest a new approach.

Whatever abuse I receive during a day, I make nice meals and feed her, at least when she is open to that idea.

Interesting... .she abuses and gets nice meals.  Do I have that right? 

Can you take a step back and look at this?  Help me understand how abuse results in her getting nice things.  Has her behavior improved?  Does she say thank you?

She appears to like to suffer and will reject any attempt I make to help her. It is like she wants to play the part of "poor me"... .

Does she specifically ask for your help?

Are you ok with her wanting to suffer?

 

Today she woke up here and I made us a coffee.

Did she say thanks?  Is this normal?

She refused to use the toilet and went up the road to the warehouse to sew.

OK... .that's different. 

Was there a conversation around her toilet use?  Is this a regular thing?

I went there an hour later and I proposed we should be planning the next week out, writing down what needed to be done, and seeing if we can achieve some goals to make our lives better.

Hmm... .Am I correct that you normally "go after" her? 

Did she ask you to come help her plan and do this stuff?  or... did you suggest it?

Most of the plans were built around her projects.

Does she help with your projects?

I offered to redraw and print this skirt pattern she needs.

Did she ask or did you make an unsolicited offer?  Did she accept? 

  I praised her ability. It really did no use. She simply said she would rather die.

Well... that's different.

What were you hoping would happen by praising her?

  She woke me up climbing through the window (she won't use the door as she thinks my kids are going to kill her).

Ok...

Listen... my wife suffers from paranoia.   So reading this doesn't shock me, yet I'm wondering what exactly she says and you say when she talks about your kids trying to do her in.

So... quick getting to know each other thing... .

My wife alleged (as in alleged to others) for a while that I was trying to electrocute her in a tub with a sex toy... she could dramatically act out how she "saved herself"... .said I had a weird look on my face and was making odd noises (this was several years ago)

Reality:  I was making light saber noises and waving the thing around (like a light saber)... .in preparation of "using the force on her"  (I get it... I have no game... don't worry... I let my mustache make up for lack of imagination).

OK... .you can't make this stuff up... .I hope you are smiling.  Dude... the window thing is different.

\
I asked her to lay next to me and we were speaking relaxed for a minute or two, then she started on how much she hates my kids and by default, me. I told her I love my kids.

Is this a regular topic?  Can you share some he said she said?

Yes, they can be a pain at times, but I am their dad and I love them.

Did she specifically ask for your opinion and feelings about your kids?

She got really angry.

You know her better than we do.  Why do you think she got angry? 

She left via the window stating she was off to the shop to get some food.

Again... can't make this up.

Window... .

I realize this is stressful... .I hope you can take a step back and smile... .just a bit.  We really can help you make this better.

She returned an hour later and tried to engage me on how awful my children are and how I let them get away with abuse.

I wonder what she gets from bringing this up?  Any thoughts?

She stormed off and about an hour later she returned, drunk, via the window, and proceeded to pour a bottle of beer over my head. I grabbed the bottle from her and told her to get out. She struggled a bit but I got her out of the window. She was yelling at how my Aunty was shocked at the way my kids treat me. How my therapist can't believe how awful my son is.
 

Can you lock your window? 

I sent her a short email saying:

Your violence is shameful.
This is what I deserve is it?
For what? For being a hypocrite?
You need to apologise.

What was your goal?

Did she apologize?

Her answer has predictably been:
  off you piece of 

Is this a "normal" response? or was this response unusual for her?

  I have known her for 10 years and this is a common theme. 

So... .is it fair to say that for 10 years she has basically been the same?

  This current battle will no doubt go on for some time yet. Three weeks is nothing.

I'm a military guy... so I get the battle analogy?

What does it take to have a battle?  (stick with military analogy)

She had done 10 months before! 

What was that over?  What was the issue?  (briefly)

I want this to stop. I need a break.

Can you take a break?  What happens when you do?

I have pleaded with her to reconcile with me and get along.

How has that worked out?  Is that a common thing for you to do?

She is making no effort at all. 

What would effort look like?

Where does the "put" or "spend" her efforts?


Looking forward to getting to know you better...

FF

[2020]

Formflyer, thank you for the time you are investing in helping me. I feel a sense of depression this is now part 3. I am not sure how to do the highlighted quotes you have done in your reply, but I'll try to answer your questions here. It may be lengthy.

Are you wondering why I went up the road when she disappeared from me when I was making coffee? I went up the road to draft patterns; but I have already said that. Hmmm... .Let me think about this. She was clearly angry about the blocked toilet (or something), because she walked off without saying a word. I sensed I was now in her bad books (experience). It wasn't me who blocked the toilet. I was the one who unblocked it (which I probably shouldn't have done). Then after a couple of hours I went up the road to face the music (which maybe I shouldn't have done either)? Yes I do go after her (which perhaps I need to stop doing). Is this where the problem lies? How I behave? Perhaps it is.

Consoling her? Well it is trying to reason with her. She is extremely pessimistic at the best of times. Depression is a major issue. She sees little worth in this World much of the time, or so she says. She tends to give up on things way too soon. I spend a lot of time pointing out the positives in situations. It can be very draing. It involves delivering a speech of sorts, trying to boost moral. No, it generally doesn't work or at least doesn't yeild results proportionate to the effort expended.

The part about the sex life, or lack of it... .I don't actually understand her claims at all. Does she believe any of what she says? She seems to think I am paying for sex elsewhere among other things. Or that I prefer men. Who knows what goes on in her brain. Why does she push me away? To control me? Or have some sense of control for herself? One of her reasons is that I "have chosen to live with my retarded adult kids and we can't have a sex life". But then at other times this certainly isn't an issue. I wonder if this has anything to do with sex.

OK, I think I might be seeing something here. I must be a slow learner. It looks like when she plays up, I am jumping into action and trying to cater for her. Why am I making these meals for her when she is treating me like   ? If she is in an amicable mood she will be polite and thank me. On other occasions she will demand from me and I comply. (Spot the deliberate mistake).

There is still more to get through here! A lot more... .

Does she ask me to help her? To be honest, generally not. She will verbalise this or that being a problem, or complain about something or other, and I usually volunteer to help. This is something I am going to have to look at about myself. It isn't going to be easy. We are talking 10 years of this pattern, if not a life time. Is that not what a great deal of these relationships here on this forum are based upon? The damsel in distress and the knight in shining armour? Is that not why we are with them? Our sense of having to rescue? And why are they with us? Maybe because we are what we are. We go over the top and that extra mile to reassure them and care for them... .and it is never enough.

Am I ok with her wanting to suffer? Right now I am! I have been wiped off the face of the Earth in her eyes today. I'd rather be in a tub electrocuted by a sex toy than endure the coming week! Generally though, no, I don't like to see her suffer, or anyone for that matter.

So the part about the skirt pattern she needs. We had been up late one night and I had drafted this on my computer. The next step was to print another copy out and for her to test fit it. Then the next day something happened and we were not getting on again. I cannot remember what the issue was. A day or so later I am suggesting we print his out and get back to what we were doing but she says she is working on something else. OK... .fine. Then a day or two after that she is complaining she can't finish this skirt because I have the artwork on my computer. I offer to print it but she says not to bother. I tell her I can give the file to her and she can print it out herself but no. What she would rather do, in my opinion, is hold onto this betrayal, this wrong doing, this sin, so she can milk it for all it is worth. You see? Now I sound paranoid!

Rarely does she help me with my projects. It is usually me getting involved with her stuff. Again, I have a history of this going back a decade.

Did she specifically ask for my opinion and feelings about my kids? No. She never wants to hear about them, ever. They have become this off limits topic. It is quite complicated. The main issue for her was my youngest son at first. He was living with his mother 400km away from the age of about 5 to 12. She ended up with some serious drug problems and I had to 'air lift' him out of there. He came to live with me and was very traumatised. He wouldn't go to school. He wouldn't want me out of his sight. He used to scream when I visited him and his mother for a few days every couple of months and had to leave. I then found out from his mother that he was diagnosed Autistic. I thought this explained his behaviour. It was about two years ago that he told me he was sexually abused by a neighbour when he lived with his mother. Apparently it happened about 200 times. When he came to live with me my mother died, and then a short time afterwards I was in this serious relationship with my friend. Basically, he has his own set of issues; she has hers, and I have mine. He might feel frightened with her appearing on the scene and suddenly Dad's attention is with her, just after I had rescued him from hell. And she is needy. In all fairness to her, he has got angry on occasions and threatened her. I don't think he would kill anyone though. He is a little scared boy in a 17 year old body. He is getting older but he will always be a kid I think. Like I said, it is complicated.

I am going to have to move through this. I'll be running on three hours sleep today. The battle. There are battles and wars, aren't there? I am not a military guy myself although I do own a few uniforms (WW2 related); none I wear personally. I have no weapons or medals but I have experienced my fair share of skirmishes, begged for my life, lost a few friends and buried the dead. What does it take to have a battle? You may know better than I. It helps if you are hardened up by life I guess. I would rather not be battling. It takes too much energy and wears me down. I'd prefer to resolve conflict but it is difficult when she is raging. What should I be doing here? I really feel quite stuck. Half the time I think she is a robot. Right now, today, she has completely cut me off from her. She has interpreted an email from 2015 from my son's mother about him being on the bus and on his way home, as me being disloyal and still being in a relationship with her. I will need to be very careful that she never finds this rambling I am typing here... .or I will know very well what a battle is. It will be the nuclear option.

I am just scrolling through the rest of the points you made. The 10 month radio silence? I really cannot remember exactly. This sort of thing has been a feature of our friendship. We spend a lot of time together, then from my perspective, right out of the blue, she will send me a text message after midnight telling me how much she hates me and never wants to see me again. Who knows what her reasoning is. I would go to pieces. I would try to contact her but she would not respond. I would be in bed depressed for a week. Then I'd pull myself together somehow and face the World. I'd try to keep myself busy. Then months later she would contact me and act as if nothing had happened. I guess that is when I should ask her to explain. Personally, I think it is probably about insecurity and abandonment or fear of abandonment.

So the next few days will be difficult. I don't know what she is going to do. Maybe the best thing is to sort out what I will be doing. She has boarded herself in up at the warehouse. It might be interesting to see what would happen if I don't go up there looking for her. This current connundrum is a bit concerning. I am somewhat worried about her mental health. I can see some self harm going on or about to. But I need to try and get some boundaries established too. If she acts like this then she needs to realise that it won't get the result she thinks.

I spend way too much time on this. It has taken over my life. The real question is, how do I improve this? Can it be made better than what it is, and if so how? Why do we choose to stay in these relationships? I have a lot to think about. Any advice or guidance is appreciated. I'll read through all of this again and see if I have missed something.

[formflier]

I've given you lots to consider and you did well finding some things to question if you are on the right path.  Rather than giving you the answer... .I'm hoping to point you to some knowledge that will help you define your own path... .to bettering your relationship.

There is a concept/skill that I want you to start thinking about:  Validation

Couple links below are just the start of a journey... .a way of thinking.  First FF hint:  1 invalidation=10 validations.  So... .if your energy is limited... .which one of those should you focus on?


What is Invalidation all about

Validating Questions


Hoping others can share stories about how their relationships changed due to a deeper understanding of the power of validation.

FF

[2020]

Thanks. I have read the validation links before. There is so much to consider with 'JADE' and boundaries that I haven't focused enough on validation. Those ratios of 1:10 don't sound too good. I find the validating questions a lot easier to grasp than the more lengthy link with the video. I will run through these again and then i'll put this into practice. I have to start somewhere. I'll see if I can ask a validating question today. I won't use 'why'. I can't solve her problems for her... .right? I'll be mindful of the JADE trap once I get a response from the validating questions. I'll post the result here in a while.

[2020]

Well that isn't much of an option right now. I went up to the warehouse and she is not there. There is a padlock on the door so I am certain she isn't inside. There is a chance she may have contacted her son and he has come to the rescue. The other option is she has been hospitalised. This has happened before. I do not have a phone. She did not either until a couple of weeks ago when her son gave her an old one of his. She has not given me her phone number. I do not know where her son has moved to. She knows from past experience that I worry when she runs away. Sometimes this goes on for days. I have sent a short validating email saying that I understand that she is upset and would she like to discuss this with me. Maybe it is not validating enough? I have not received a reply. I may not receive a reply for days. Like I said, she knows how the silent treatment tortures me. I have asked that when she needs to be away that she just lets me know she is alive. I guess there it not much more I can do.

[Radcliff]

What can you do to get to a place where the silent treatment does not torture you?  Where you can use all of the time that she is gone to recover, to do things you have not been able to do, to think about the relationship and changes you might want to make in your behaviors if she reengages?

I think you've shown a lot of good insights about your behaviors that are problematic.  Why are you not changing?  For me, the answer was that I was scared to lose the relationship.  As long as she could hold that over my head, I was paralyzed.  I had to get to a place where I was willing to take the risk of losing the relationship.  I placed healthy and safe living as a higher priority than saving the relationship, but then after that did everything within reason to give the relationship the best shot possible.

RC

[formflier]

  Those ratios of 1:10 don't sound too good. I find the validating questions a lot easier to grasp than the more lengthy link with the video. I will run through these again and then i'll put this into practice. I have to start somewhere.

Couple important points of clarity.  Is "validation" or "invalidation" more powerful?  (critical to understand)

Please read your last few posts again... but with a certain "lens" on.  In fact, I'm going to challenge you to read both links again about validation and invalidation.  Then go read your last several posts.

Make some notes about

1.  I wish I had validated here... or asked a validating question.
2.  Perhaps I "invalidated" here.

Don't worry about finding all.  In fact... just look for one or two.   

FF

[2020]

FF... .Thanks again.

I am about 90 pages through the Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder book. I think I am making some progress on understanding Validation. I am trying to cram a lot of learning into a small time frame. Things have got pretty bad over the past few years, which is why I found my way here somehow.

I had a bit of email dialogue this evening with my partner. I more or less lifted a few questions directly from the link you suggested and posed them to her. She isn't exactly happy with me, but she isn't having a melt down in her replies. When I said , "I realise you are upset, but would you like to discuss this with me?", her response was "Yes I am upset and no, I feel there is nothing to discuss, thank you". I thanked her for her reply and said I was worried about her. I said I was saddened that we were not getting on and asked her what did she think had caused this problem? She then said: "no need to worry. i am very relieved to be away from your horrible children once and for all. there is nothing to discuss. the truth is out of the bag and i am free of your torture. my friendship with you was a lie, established and maintained by deception. i am not walking back into your web of lies deception abuse mockery ridicule and bullying ever again."

So there we have it. That's a nice email   . Seriously though, she'll probably talk to me again. I am just going to give her emotions time to cool down. I really want to become better at asking the right questions. In the past I think I have taken control of the situation and decided what is best. I've imposed a solution without asking. I've not helped by helping. I am going to have to be very tactful in how I handle this. I need to try some other method.

Tomorrow after I have slept, I will read through my history here and I may be able to spot what I could have done better. Thanks again for the education.

[2020]

I've been trying to catch up with sleep. These massive episodes can really knock you about. Still reading through the book I mentioned above. I received an email this morning which I replied to. It's content was mainly about being abused and ridiculed my me and my family. I though my reply was vailidating but in retrospect I am rushing things by asking if she would like to go for a drive somewhere to discuss something workable for us. I need more practice. I think when things are this volatile and raw, all one can hope to do is mirror what they are saying. About ten hours later I got a fairly hostile reply, and an hour after that another one, this time angry I hadn't replied and suggesting I was conspiring with my family and having fun composing a return email with them.

I am looking back at what I think triggered this. On the morning whenever it happened (the current melt down), she had woken up when her son knocked on the door to see her. She had gone out with him to town, without telling me - I was asleep. When I woke up I remembered that he was coming over in the next few days and assumed that she would be out with him. A few hours later I was going to the bank in the car with my 17 year old son. I saw her walking down the street with her son and pulled over to tell her where I was going. She seemed distant and like she didn't want to talk to me, probably because I was taking my son somewhere. Ironic, isn't it? As soon as I returned I went up to the warehouse where she was with her son and his partner. She seemed ok, but maybe she was putting on a smile because her son was there? It was later when she climbed into the bedroom window and read through my emails. Because she found emails from 2015 from the mother of my children, this is 'evidence' that I am still in a relationship with my ex. This is the number one accusation she utilises. It has been going on for the past five years. I actually went to a therapist with her when this first started happening. She told the therapist that I am in relationship with my ex and this is why we are having problems. He asked me me about this and I said that the relationship had ended in 2004. He seemed taken back by this, needless to say my partner told me how useless he was immediately after the session. We never went back.

So basically, I am now a complete write off in her eyes. I have deceived and lied to her. I ridicule and mock her. I am a bully. Worst of all, I am in a relationship with my ex. The fact is, this isn't the first time she has read through my emails. She has done this a couple of times before, most recently less than a year ago. So really she is using the same 'evidence', making the same accustations as she has done in the past.

Here is the plan. I am treading a fine line between not being dragged into her whirlpool of misery, and wanting this to be resolved. I am down to the bare bones of validation. No point really expecting too much. She hasn't cut me off totally or she wouldn't be emailing me. I'll just be patient. I'll try and enjoy my time off. I'll do some study and invest some energy into myself and do some things I want to do. It is easy to neglect our own lives when caught up in their dramas. Hope you are all hanging in there as best you can... .

[Radcliff]

Let's assume she reengages.  What will you do differently?

RC

[2020]

Well, she is reengaging right now. I have woken up to six emails from her. She is clearly still very hurt. I will have to reply. Or do I? It is so difficult knowing what to do. I am finding everything I thought I was doing right, has to be questioned. She is already onto me. She is quenstioning whether my kids are writing these emails, or my 'wife' (I have never been married). I am being called a sadisstic psychopath. She is wondering why I am acting differently. She thinks I want to discuss a new method of dealing with her which I found on the internet. I am being told I am sleeping with my ex. I will tread very carefully. Validation?

[2020]

So today I went for a drive to the beach with my Son which was pleasant. When I returned I had three emails from my partner. She's obviously not happy: "you think so little of me you insist on your autistic way of interpersonal communication via email. i am finished. i loathe you and want nothing to do with you and your pathetic crap. goodbye you will always be a sleazy liar of a  to me." Then there was this one:  " you and your power trip of keeping women hanging by a rotting thread". And finally this: "I THOUGHT YOU WERE my friend but you were never around and when I need a friend and your friendship is always conditional. I am seeing someone else and have been since we got back from paris so I am finished thank you. I thought we might reconcile after your wife thing but not a chance. good bye."

So, what do I do with that? It sounds like a crock of  to me. She's not in a good way. How do I communicate when this sort of dysregulation is going on? 'Split Black'? Well I am 'Black's Black' right now... .like a 'musicians' musician'. To be honest, I am in the black most of the time lately; the darkness just varies.

I sent a short email that I am her friend (probably pointless) and that I don't want this email communication either. I have asked her if she would prefer to see me in person to discuss things. Is there much more I can do? This whole current episode is really dragging me under. I am being worn down. It feels like I am on a raft out at sea exposed to the elements, her emotional weather, with no land in sight. How can I function like this? I am really having my doubts this will ever get better. I spend all day reading here. I hardly have a life anymore. I am actually feeling a bit angry. I am dreading another day of this. Thanks for listening.

[Radcliff]

How long has she been away for at this point?  The e-mail communications don't sound productive.  They are painful for you to read, and just seem to inflame her more.  It's important to draw boundaries around things that are hurting or not being effective.  It's hard to solve problems over e-mail, even for a pair of normal-range people.

How far away is she?  Would it be possible to meet her in a public place, like a park?  Any e-mail communications from you should be short, and validating.  You do not need to address everything she says.  In fact, if she is giving you poisonous speech, you may want to just stop reading, and tell her you are going to take a break from e-mail for a day.

You need to avoid feeding the drama, give her space to reach baseline again, and take the space to do come recovery of your own.  Can you cut back on the poisonous e-mail traffic, or at least your exposure to it?

RC

[2020]

Yes Radcliff, I do need to stop this email back and forth. I was going insane. I sat up all night waiting from about 8pm until  3pm the next day, refreshing my Inbox. She answered none of my emails. The problem was, I don't have her phone number, I don't have her Son's contact number nor know where he lives. When she goes off like this it usually involves alcohol intoxication, possible self harm, and at least a couple of times a year either being hospitalised or spending a week in the local mental institution. After being locked away, she is very calm. So I go through a huge amount of worry. I was thinking she may be dead. Maybe the problem is me; how I react to her episodes.

This had gone on for a month. On Sunday I was driving to a shop and thought I'd check the warehouse and see if by some chance she was back. I noticed the door padlock was off but she would not answer when I knocked. Two hours later I returned and knocked and she did answer. She put up a bit of 'what do you want' act when I told her I wanted to talk to her. Whe she opened the door she was semi naked and became upset. She clung to me and began telling me what had happened the night before. She said she had got drunk and her Son and partner, his partner's mother, and two friends went out to dinner. They said she couldn't go. Perhaps this was because she was so drunk? She said it was because his partner doesn't like her. Whatever the reason, I sat there and did what I thought was best. I validated; nodded my head, said things like, "anyone would be upset by that". She blurted out the whole thing. They came back and saw chairs had fallen over and the house was a mess. Apparently her Son kicked her out at 5am. All her clothes and the phone are still at his place. She tried to hitch back, eventually catching a taxi which cost her $60. She said in the past four days had spent over $800 on alcohol and going out to dinner. "Wow, that's a lot of money"... .what else do you say?

Even though I was beginning to think I would never see her again, she is back in my life, in my bed, as loving as ever. I am seeing the kind side of her. She is talking about dreams, plans to move to France, creative projects etc. She switched completely around. I will enjoy this while it lasts. Her Son is black now- I get a turn to be white. I am trying to manage this as best I can. I have an appointment with my therapist in an hour. It will be an interesting discussion.

Thanks for your reply. I will keep reading here and learning.

[formflier]

  Maybe the problem is me; how I react to her episodes.
 

Hmmm... .are you wishing you had reacted differently?

For instance... .how would you have rather handled her lack of a response email?  (where you stayed awake for a while).

FF

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[2020]

I think I partially was sucessful in how I reacted. I went to a beach with my son for a few hours and got away from the email back and forth. It was when I returned that I started to really worry and go insane. It is very difficult not to be affected by their dramas. If I could just see it for what it is; her feeling anxious, abandoned, unloved and lashing out at me, and not take it to heart, maybe I'd not be tortured so much by it. I think next time, because I know this will happen again (and again), I will not respond to her emails. In fact, if it gets to the point where Validation is not working, I will tell her I am going offline until ... .What I will try and do instead, is focus on something else. Something for me.

I just saw my psychologist. He has met my partner once before. It is great having him to run all this past as I first saw him when I got into a serious relationship five years ago. He has the whole history. What we discussed today was her but more importantly me, and how I react to these situations. She may never get to therapy or accept she has a problem. She may never commence DBT. But I have some control over this. I can adjust how I behave in relationship to her. You know how tricky this is. There are hundreds of 'caretakers' here on this forum and we are all struggling from time to time. Today I am feeling hopeful this might be a turning point where things slowly get better. Then again, today I have a sparly fresh coat of white enamel, and her Son is inky black.

Steady as she goes, hey? But yeah, no more of the unproductive email tennis.

[Radcliff]

I think you see parts of this, like the need to not be engaging her e-mail drama, and not lose sleep hitting "refresh."

But the crucial point I think you may be missing, a major philosophical change that you must make in order to make things better, is that your beliefs, behaviors and strategy must not hinge on how she's behaving.  You must not simply relax and enjoy the white periods.  If you do, you'll just get hammered when things turn black, and you'll be fully participating in the cycles still.  Does that make sense?

RC

[Red5]

*It is very difficult not to be affected by their dramas.

*If I could just see it for what it is; her feeling anxious, abandoned, unloved and lashing out at me, and not take it to heart, maybe I'd not be tortured so much by it.

*I think next time, because I know this will happen again (and again), I will not respond to her emails. In fact, if it gets to the point where Validation is not working, I will tell her I am going offline until... .

*What I will try and do instead, is focus on something else. Something for me.

*I have some control over this. I can adjust how I behave in relationship to her. You know how tricky this is.

*There are hundreds of 'caretakers' here on this forum and we are all struggling from time to time.

*Today I am feeling hopeful this might be a turning point where things slowly get better.

*Steady as she goes, .hey?... .But yeah, no more of the unproductive email tennis.

Hello 2020,

I was thinking about you this morning, so I figured I come over from "conflicted", and look you up... .see how you are doing.

Sounds like you are making your way along, .me too!... ."steady as she goes"!

Seems when I get to the end of my endurance (rope), I am starting to become more and more adept at getting a “second wind”; ie’ I’m getting better at “self-care”… “self-soothing”, like going fishing with my Son, or working on other things around the house…

I too can now effectively “disconnect” when things go too far, and get too hot so to speak.

As time passes, I am seeing progress within myself, that I do not take my uBPDw’s tantrums, and negative behaviors so “at heart” any longer, and it has taken a very long time to get to this “place”… years in fact.

Anyways 2020, just wanted to stop by, say hello, and wish you “safe travels”…

Yes Sir!… “steady as she goes”!

Come on over to "conflicted" sometime and say hello!

Best Regards, Red5

[2020]

Just a quick reply as I have to get my Son off to school... .

Radcliff, I will digest your advice. This is going to be a long journey for me and there is a lot more to it than I thought. Yes I am basking in the white glow of the 200 watt bulb my partner is shining on me now, but already I can see it fading this morning. I am hearing the 'everything's   ed' comments. Yes, you are right; my behaviour is hinging on hers. I'll have to look at this.

Red5: Thanks for the reply. I do read your writings, in fact I have read all of them! The best one of all was the 'roses in the toilet bowl'!   I shouldn't laugh but I can relate to that! It's a long road this one, isn't it? Makes me wonder at times why I am bothering. The good times can be good though, however few and far between they may be. I must go now and steer my ship away from potential looming rocks and rapids. Hope you have a reasonable day.


This thread has been locked for length and continued in the following new thread:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=330908.0