Scary wrath and final discard...?

[WitzEndWife]

Hi all - It's been a while since I've posted. We're trying to get to a settlement, but my STBXh has made an unreasonable ask (6 years of maintenance, in addition to half of everything and none of the debt when we have no kids and had only been married 7 years - ha) and hasn't come back on the counter offer (we gave him a small concession to try to avoid going to trial, which will cost $$$$$). So, likely, that means we're doing trial at the end of May and then waiting months and months until the divorce is finalized after that. Sigh. I had him kicked out last June.

Unfortunately, the dog I adopted shortly after our separation had a variety of health problems that took a severe turn in January and I was going to the ER with him about every two weeks. We were trying all of these things and had a battery of tests done, with two separate sets of veterinarians, and nothing came up. Last week, he started to take an even sharper spiral down and there wasn't even anything the vets could give me to provide him with temporary relief. He would groan and pace, unable to settle down, and would frantically try to chew on rocks and dirt in the back yard for relief. The vet said it could be something neurological, but all I knew was that he was in severe distress, panicking when he couldn't get out to try to eat rocks.

With the support of my vets, I had him euthanized at home. It was the hardest choice I've ever had to make, but I know it was the most merciful one. As I was grieving and in severe pain, you-know-who caught wind of what had happened and began to harass me again. He texted me the most horrible things, how I was mentally ill and that I had him euthanized because I could not admit that I couldn't handle him. Horrible, grotesque stuff. And he was posting conversations he was having with his friends about me on the dog's Instagram stories so that I'd see them. I sent the texts and the IG screenshots to the lawyer and she told his lawyer to tell him to stop.

I told him to stop contacting me. He had said the most horrible things, and that I was a "puppy killer" and he hated me and wanted "his" money and for me to get out of his life.

My neighbor had checked in on me to see if I was okay and I told her about everything. She broke down and told me that a few years ago, my STBXh had harassed and stalked her next door neighbor after she rejected his "creepy" (her words) advances. I was shocked. Here, this guy had gone on and on about how loyal and faithful he was to me and was gaslighting me saying he was this loving husband who I just kicked out, out of nowhere for no reason. He would tell his sob story to anyone who would listen and send video after video of his crying face, saying he cried morning, noon, and night over the breakdown of the marriage, that he couldn't face the reality of it. And, wow, come to find out, he was actively and obsessively pursuing other women in our own neighborhood! I'm blown away.

Apparently this women he had stalked attempted to get a restraining order after he'd sent her many obsessive and threatening text messages and a postcard. The judge threw it out, but I'm talking to her later today to get more details.

It probably won't help my divorce case, but it will be more fodder to help me stop feeling sorry for this completely duplicitous jerk who doesn't deserve any more of my kindness.

I can't wait until this is all over so I can just block him from everything and move on. I've been through enough, that's for sure.

[ForeverDad]

If the neighbor tried to file an action in court, likely there's a docket number and file on it.  If you can't locate or access it, your lawyer can.

Whether it would be that extra little bit of leverage to reach a decent settlement, who knows?

[Cat Familiar]

Gosh…it sounds like you married my ex. 

He too, had his eyes on the neighbor women. 

I’m so sorry about your dog, but you did the right thing for him. I had a horse with neurological issues, and I spent $$$$$$$$ trying to get her diagnosed: blood texts, X-rays, ophthalmologist exam, and on and on and on. Everything came out *normal* yet she wasn’t at all normal, though she could appear that way at times. It wasn’t until she started having seizures, then grand mall seizures, which is scary as hell with an 1100 pound animal. The seizures left her with brain damage, and I realized I had to euthanize her. I didn’t do a necropsy as I’d spent enough money already, but my hypothesis is that she had a brain tumor.

Your soon to be ex can ask for the sun and moon—mine wanted me to support him too, but the court will see things realistically.

I ended up paying no support, but I did have to give him more money than I wanted to just f*ing go away. It was a bitter pill to swallow at the time, but in retrospect it was a bargain. Real estate prices have climbed so much that what I paid was merely a pittance. And well worth it to get him the hell out of my life!

[Notwendy]

I understand it was hard, but you know the situation with your dog and followed the veterinarian's advice. It's not a decision you made on your own- it was with the dog's vets and it was with love and compassion.

We had to do this with a kitty- and the veterinarian and staff showed compassion- they know it's hard to do. The veterinarians taking care of your dog would not have recommended this if they didn't believe it was right thing to do and you understood that too.

It's your ex's behavior that is out of line. Someone who has empathy and behaves appropriately would show compassion for you, not do what he did. His behavior shows a lot about him. It has nothing to do with you. As you said, it was grotesque and inappropriate.

[WitzEndWife]

Folks, the plot thickens here. Hang onto your seats. So, I spoke to the neighbor the other night. She was a wonderful person and gave me ALL of the info, including screenshots of messages he sent her. Here's the basic story:

In mid-late 2019, my STBX was hanging out with a neighbor of ours quite a lot. He would stay up late drinking and smoking pot, then come home wasted and annoying, turning on every light in the house and stomping around, waking me up at 1, 2, 3 o'clock in the morning when I had to be up between 5:30 and 6 for work. He was not working much at this time, but he did drive Uber here and there. In fact, he had just foisted a car loan on me so he could buy a Cadillac to "make more money with Uber Black" and he SWORE he would pay me back. However, over time, he was more and more hesitant to pay his car payment, and some months he would just tell me that he was unable to pay me back. When I would get after him about it, he would rage and throw fits.

Also during this time, he would beg me for money to pay his credit cards because he claimed they were maxed out. During this time also, I had taken a 25% pay cut at my job because the business had been defrauded and rather than let people go, they cut salaries temporarily (for almost a year). That meant, I was giving him all of my cash and putting a lot of necessities as they came up on credit. And when I would complain...you guessed it - rage-o-rama.

So, apparently the neighbor he allegedly stalked (I'll call her E), lived next store to neighbors J and A (who he had been hanging out with) and was friends with A. STBXh had met her a couple of times and learned that she was into riding her bike. He was super into cycling, so he asked her if she would want to go on a bike ride with him one day.

After that experience happened, he began texting E quite obsessively and then started giving her gifts: cycling cleats, cycling gloves and other attire, and then...a brand new road bike. She was not wanting to accept such a lavish gift from a guy she barely knew and wasn't romantically interested in, so she tried to give it back multiple times. He did not accept it back. In addition, he started giving her other gifts: accessories and purses, for example. Then, around Christmas that year, he gifted her lingerie. At that point, she made it clear that she did not want to speak to him any further and that his gifts and advances were inappropriate. She had also learned that he had a wife.

Upon being rejected, he sent a slew of obsessive messages, ranging from begging to bragging to raging, calling E names and such and also oddly sending E screenshots of another conversation he was having with another woman (a woman I knew about but whom he claimed was just a friend - ha). He had also sent gifts to this other woman and sent E a screenshot of the woman thanking him for the gift, telling E that her reaction was the proper way to accept a gift (excuse me while I retch 5000 times).

So, E quite readily sent me everything she had and I sent it to my attorney. She says that she will prepare some questions to ask during the deposition later this month. STBXh thinks he's smarter than everyone else and has had the wool pulled over my eyes this entire time. I cannot wait to hear about the look on his face when my attorney pulls out these questions!

What's interesting is that the stalking stuff is not useful to us because we definitely want to portray him as mentally stable enough to be able to support himself. However, as he is trying to claim that ALL of the marital debt is MY responsibility because they're trying to claim the majority of it is for my own personal expenses, all of this information will absolutely be relevant and speak to his spending habits, deceptiveness, and whether he is entitled to anything over and above the 50/50 split of assets that is standard in the state. I don't think the judge will award less than that, but if it's 50/50, I'm cool with it.

Right now, it's in his best interest to settle and take a little bit of extra cash and run, but as we know "pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered" - if he wants to be an entitled hog, I'm fairly certain he's not going to like the outcome.

I swear, you can't make this stuff up.I guess the best thing that has come out of all of this is that I no longer feel any drop of guilt for tossing him out on his ear. It's funny, with the majority of partners with BPD, I was accustomed to hearing about people's stories of infidelity and I thought, "Oh, mine's too clingy to cheat." I thought I knew his motivations and whereabouts at all times. It just goes to show that if someone really wants to be deceptive, they can be. But, also true, the truth always comes out in the end. AND, guys, don't underestimate the power of women when they come together. I now have a small group of women neighbors who are determined to keep him out of our neighborhood and out of our lives (including one buff bouncer lady who will kick his sorry butt from here to next Tuesday if he does anything unpleasant).

So, there you go. One heck of an update. I have no more words.

[kells76]

What a jaw dropper -- to put it mildly! Glad your L quickly saw the strategic value in using that information for a deposition.

How did you feel when the neighbor finished her story?

[WitzEndWife]

How did you feel when the neighbor finished her story?

A mixture of things - mostly completely disgusted and angry. During the separation, he's been portraying himself to everyone as this poor, innocent, wounded victim who was evilly evicted from his home "at gunpoint" (he likes to say, even though there were no guns involved). He went around saying how he was such a helpful, loyal spouse and that I kicked him out before he was able to contribute to our financial situation. Of course, this was seven years after we got married, so I did quite a lot of waiting for him to contribute and all he did was add to the debt.

I also felt kind of vindicated after all of that. Like, no, he was not this innocent, loving person, he was a manipulative, creepy user. He was a predator. And I know now that I deserve better.

[Cat Familiar]

This certainly affords you a clean break!

Late one night, when he had gotten out of bed and gone into a different building, I caught my ex chatting on the phone with his newest conquest, as he assumed I’d be asleep. This was at a time when he promised the cheating would be left in the rear view mirror. I listened outside for a while and was totally disgusted.

It’s so easy to fall for the sob story and forgive past transgressions, but with these types their promises of better behavior mean nothing.

I saw clearly who my ex was, after spending far too many years hoping he’d renounce his indiscretions, but those indiscretions were baked in the cake.

In the end, I saw him as pathetic, revolting, laughably incompetent, and never once have I ever had a moment of regret for divorcing him.

That I bought into his bullish!t has only made me realize that I’m a compassionate and forgiving person, and that in the future my compassion would be directed only toward people who really deserved it, not users and abusers.

He deserves no mercy in your divorce settlement.

[Notwendy]

Awful.

I also want to add, please don't blame yourself for caring about him. He's a pro at this, apparently.

One of my friends got into a relationship with a narcissistic womanizer. She's smart, successful, and independent. He is just that good at the chase. After that relationship he went on to other women. Same behavior with them. Another friend - also smart and capable- ran off with a co-worker who later scammed her.

We don't expect this kind of behavior. Now you can move on without concern for him and take care of you.

[Turkish]

WEW,

I'm sorry about your puppy. You did the right thing  

Cheating behaviors to those levels is a sickness. When my ex and her Beau kept texting each other in front of me while I was making dinner for all of us, the kids in the living room, I stopped and said, "really? You can't keep it in your pants for even half an hour while I'm cooking and we're about to have dinner with our babies?"

OK, I didn't say "keep it in your pants" exactly, but similar.

She hung her head... "you know it's my 'sickness'."

YA THINK?

[WitzEndWife]

Thanks, all, for the support. I'm still processing everything. On the one hand, I can't help but feel a little embarrassed for assuming he would be faithful, when infidelity is kind of an M.O. for these types. The thing is, I don't even think consummating affairs was a main motivator for him, it was just wanting to feel validated and appreciated - he wanted to be wanted. No wonder he raged out at E when she rejected him. It was rubbing salt into his wound, I guess.

The whole cycle of these relationships is infuriating. Once they get comfortable and start showing their true colors, they cause their partners to feel unsafe, traumatized, or wounded. Because they cannot take responsibility for their actions, the wounds fester and become resentment. So, they, in turn, start to resent their partners for resenting them or not wanting to be as close after they've abused them. Instead of seeking to take ownership for their part in causing a rift and trying to repair the damage, they essentially throw gasoline on the proverbial fire and start to seek validation outside of the relationship. And, of course, they never take responsibility for doing so either, as it has to be the fault of the partner, whom they abused in the first place. It's just heinous.

I am glad I've been given the gift of not caring anymore. He can go do whatever he wants. He's disgusting. I can't believe I waited so long, trying to take care of him until he got a job, and here he was, further trashing my finances. What a piece of...work.

And the fact that he tried to tell everyone what a gift he was to my life - yuck. My dog left me better "gifts" on the floor this morning.

[Cat Familiar]

Hey you don’t need to feel embarrassed that he was sneaking around behind your back seeking narcissistic supply. You were working hard to make ends meet, while he was doing whatever he was doing, promising that he would find meaningful employment, driving Uber part time, or taking classes in auto repair.

It wouldn’t have occurred to you (or to me at first—until the evidence played out right before my eyes) that someone we married was living a secret life. And your STBX was much more discreet in his carrying on than my ex was, and still I made excuses for him.  

Even my current husband, now that he’s disabled from a stroke, spends an inordinate amount of time calling up old female friends and acquaintances seeking sympathy and admiration. Though I don’t think he was a cheater prior to the stroke, who knows? That never ending need to be praised and approved of that pwBPD have seems to go back to a deficit from childhood, and they seemingly cannot provide that validation for themselves.

I remember times when I was with him, at the grocery store or a restaurant, when a checker or server with whom he previously had friendly interactions, was in a hurry or wasn’t as effusive as he expected, and it would ruin his mood for the rest of the day. “They were unfriendly!” he’d gripe. And I’d say, “WTF?” Usually I never would have noticed anything out of the ordinary. Then if I went to explain (bad mistake) that they were probably just overly busy or maybe worried about personal issues—he’d get angry at me.  

But it was telling that his ego is so fragile that he needs frequent positive validation from others on demand.

My way of moving through the world is that these people are not *friends* and who gives a f* if they’re not as friendly one day as they usually are. I’d think that it has nothing to do with me; it’s what’s going on with them, and it probably wouldn’t even cross my mind. But I don’t have BPD. Thankfully!

[Notwendy]

Hey you don’t need to feel embarrassed that he was sneaking around behind your back seeking narcissistic supply. You were working hard to make ends meet, while he was doing whatever he was doing, promising that he would find meaningful employment, driving Uber part time, or taking classes in auto repair.

Exactly- this is why I mentioned the two people I know. They are also smart, independent and productive women who don't have the need to sneak around looking for this kind of validation. So they wouldn't assume this of someone else. I only met one of the men- and I'd have no idea. He was that good at making a first impression.

Their behavior is driven by their emotional needs but those needs can't be met by another person in the long run. They have their "social persona" with someone they don't know as well, but you know better. Their dysfunction would play a part of any relationship they'd be involved with.

I am glad I've been given the gift of not caring anymore. He's disgusting.


As Maya Angelou said "when someone shows you who they are, believe them"

And now, you can focus on you

[I Am Redeemed]

Well, that story just made my stomach drop. That’s an awful realization, and I understand why you feel embarrassed for not considering that he might have been unfaithful. It hurts when someone betrays us, and it’s natural to look back once you have all the pieces of the puzzle and think that you should have seen the whole picture. But, as others have pointed out, we don’t look at things through the same lens as a pwbpd. We can’t see exactly what is going on in their minds, so it’s hard to figure out just exactly what they might do or why.

I think this should be very valuable for your divorce case, and I also wish I could see his face when he finds out you know about his indiscretions that he thought he so cleverly hid from you. It’s another piece that will help the healing process for you, as well, because it will be hard for him to emotionally blackmail you going forward.

[ForeverDad]

I think this should be very valuable for your divorce case, and I also wish I could see his face when he finds out you know about his indiscretions that he thought he so cleverly hid from you. It’s another piece that will help the healing process for you, as well, because it will be hard for him to emotionally blackmail you going forward.

Most states are "no fault" and the courts don't care about the adult behaviors unless they're abusive such as DV.  But this is Leverage you have now, that he can't bluster, lie and intimidate you.  You've got his number, so to speak.  Hopefully when he is surprised at the right time he will drop his entitled innocence-claiming obstinacy, though you won't know until it happens or not.  When the time is right, go for the jugular, metaphorically.

[WitzEndWife]

Thanks again, all, for the validation. I know you're right. I shouldn't have anything to feel embarrassed about. I didn't do anything wrong!

Today, I just feel sad, but I think it's just my body and emotions trailing behind my brain, as usual. When I think about it, I know I've been through a LOT these past couple of weeks, so it's not surprising that I'm feeling down still. I keep waiting to feel some kind of happiness or lightness after realizing that I don't have to deal with this jerk anymore, but I guess the body keeps the score and I can't expect to just shed all of the shackles of my old life and dance gleefully into a new one like they do in the movies.

As for the legal stuff, I don't think the infidelity itself has any bearing on legal decisions, BUT if he was hiding spending from me and then claiming that the debt was all mine, then, yes, I think that does play into the decision. Further, as objective as judges try to be, there is no doubt that a judge will see that this guy is a piece of...um...WORK, and I don't think that his actions will have done him any favors. I don't think he is going to get away with asking for anything more than he is legally entitled to - which is already more than he deserves since he paid for exactly nothing.

This has been such a hard lesson to learn, but I think when all is said and done, I will be grateful to have learned it. I hope I can pass it on and help others.

It's funny, I actually went out on a date the other night and even though the guy was good looking and said all the right things, I felt like he was talking about himself pretty much the entire time. Previously, I think I would have been so intrigued by a person like that and relieved that I didn't have to talk about myself. This time, I had the "ick" right away. Also, I think I need more time before getting out into the dating world, but it's good to know that maybe my picker has been modified after this experience!

[I Am Redeemed]

I know what you mean about the “modified picker”. I’ve not dated much since my divorce, but the one short relationship I had, I ended after a few months because something just seemed “off “. I finally realized that it was because my partner was not listening to me or respecting my boundaries, though he presented himself as a safe, supportive person whom I should just trust, already, and he tools it personally that I was unable to just jump right in and feel how he wanted me to feel.

Wisdom comes at a high price, and these relationships can have a huge cost; however, the lessons learned from them can be invaluable.