Is this really my responsibility?

[Choosinghope]

Hi again,

I think that the coming of the holiday season has been hard on all of us. I know that it has made an already painful situation almost unbearable to me. To recap, my mom and I are NC, and she is convinced my H is controlling and abusive, and he's the reason I have been putting up boundaries. I have been coming to terms with how things are and working on "radical acceptance" with my counselor. However, last night things got hairy.

I was super emotional and really missing my family. I talked to my sister who brought up a completely rational grievance against me, and we got it sorted out. Then, after hanging up, I just kind of lost it feeling like I am no longer a part of my family. I called her back in tears and told her that I am struggling with everything and wanting some reassurance that everything is going to be ok. Sometimes you just need that. My sister, who I am realizing is the most enmeshed with my mom, really did try to be supportive and comforting. However, she said that my choice to get married how I did just has natural consequences, and I need to be an adult and realize that I caused all this (I got married to my H after 9 months of dating/engagement, and I moved in with him in a new city after the wedding. My family didn't get a good chance to get to know him b/c it was a distance relationship for us both). She said that he's basically guilty until proven innocent in the family, and how can I expect them to know how to interpret what he says or does? In essence, our choice to get married caused my mom's current actions and the estrangement from my family.

Is that something that I should own? Was it my responsibility to plan our wedding and life around my family's--specifically--my mom's comfort with my new H? Now that the damage is done, I just don't know if it is worth fighting the battle to get my family to know and respect my H, when it seems like there's not much hope in that fight. I feel so confused and guilty and like my world is collapsing around me. Maybe I should try to apologize to my mom and other family members for not giving them a chance to get to know my fiance before we got married? My family is important to me, but from what it sounds like, there's just no way to win in this situation. I am having a hard time sorting out where my emotional responsibilities should end in this situation, as I grew up having nonexistent emotional boundaries with my family. Any help or insight would be awesome! Merry Christmas!

[GaGrl]

Many people get married and/or move in together within a nine-month period -- I just don't see this as a basis for your family "not getting to know" your husband. They certainly could have made an effort to get to know him after the marriage.

I think in your heart of hearts you know that your family is not rational about your marriage. Your mother may be the irrational BPD, but it sounds as if others, like your enmeshed sister, have bought into the disordered thinking.

What is your "wise mind" telling you?

[zachira]

My heart goes out to you hearing how your family is treating you when you have tried to improve your relationships with them. You are not the cause of how your family is treating you. They are not accepting the healthy boundaries you have put in place and are trying to get you to go back to the old ways in what is often called an extinction burst. Though my situation is similar to yours and different in many ways, I have been extremely shocked by how hurtful and mean my own family has been about my trying to have healthier relationships with them and now am low contact with the members that do not treat me with respect and kindness. It is nearly impossible to prepare for how badly the family may treat you when you try to change the family dynamics, and because they cannot deal with their feelings, the person who tries to change the family dynamics is likely to be mercilessly blamed for the discomfort the other family members feel. The holiday season can be particularly painful as we can feel alone and ostracized from the family, and your feelings about having an already painful situation feel almost unbearable are normal. The challenge is to weather the storm, and keep the boundaries you have set while surrounding yourself with people that do see you as a person worthy of love and respect, and would never make you the target of their own anger and discomfort with change. Keep us posted on how you are doing. With time things will get better. Right now the behaviors of your family members hurt, and you are doing what it takes to move past the hurt by reaching out and expressing your feelings.

[Methuen]

Hi Choosinghope

I met and married my husband of 31 years in 11 months (not so different from your 9 months).  It was probably the best decision of my life.  My uBPD mom has always felt that my H took me away from her.  This is her problem, not mine.

I was super emotional and really missing my family.

Can you tell us more about this? 

My family didn't get a good chance to get to know him b/c it was a distance relationship for us both).

Hmm.  Lots of couples experience not getting to know the other side of the family before getting married.  The healthy response is for the family to be accepting of your decision, and enjoy the opportunity to get to know your life partner.  Unfortunately, your mom and family isn't doing that: 

She said that he's basically guilty until proven innocent

Your choices and life decisions are yours.  You are an autonomous person.  Family and friends may have thoughts (negative ones are best kept to themselves), but regardless of those thoughts (which can be very misinformed), your family and friends should be there to support you, not make you feel obligated or guilty or even fearful of your family's responses to your choices. 

Is that something that I should own?

no

Was it my responsibility to plan our wedding and life around my family's--specifically--my mom's comfort with my new H

no

Maybe I should try to apologize to my mom and other family members for not giving them a chance to get to know my fiance before we got married?

no.   I think if you apologize, you have given the control to them, which can make this kind of behavior from them actually escalate.  Once they taste the control you have given them, they want more of it. 

Keep your autonomy.  Build your life with your husband.  Strengthen each other.

 

[Choosinghope]

Thank you all for your encouragement and insight. I am always amazed at how lost I can get in my own thoughts, and someone else can see something so clearly that I can't. This site truly is a Godsend. Anyway, I have survived the Christmas holiday, and I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I am so very tired today, and I think that my body is recovering from the emotional weight I have been carrying leading up to Christmas. But, I survived, and I even had a wonderful time with my H and his family, so that was a huge blessing. I called my dad to tell him Merry Christmas, and that's about all the contact I had with my FOO. My H and I both agree that this first holiday season as NC was probably the worst, and it will probably get easier in time to hold firm to boundaries and not feel the intense emotional pain. At least, we're sincerely hoping so.

What is your "wise mind" telling you?

GaGrl, you are completely right. My wise mind is telling me that none of this seems to fit into what I understand about the world or what I see other families doing. My family, specifically my mom and sister, can just be so persuasive when I talk to them, and then I go full into FOG when I hang up. I really need to stop internalizing what they say.

The challenge is to weather the storm, and keep the boundaries you have set while surrounding yourself with people that do see you as a person worthy of love and respect, and would never make you the target of their own anger and discomfort with change.

Yes. This is so true. The last months, I have been really leaning on a wonderful older couple from my last church who have kind of adopted me. I call them my surrogate grandparents, and they have been a source of such wonderful, unconditional support. On Christmas Eve, my H and I Skyped with that couple for a couple hours instead of any of my FOO. It was so lovely. I think that I am finally believing that it is ok to admit that my FOO isn't necessarily who I should want or need to spend time with.

I met and married my husband of 31 years in 11 months (not so different from your 9 months).  It was probably the best decision of my life.  My uBPD mom has always felt that my H took me away from her.  This is her problem, not mine.

Methuen, this is exactly my situation, just much earlier on. It is always encouraging to hear stories like this. I'm so happy that you and your H have had such a good marriage  Were you ever able to find a way to work out your relationship with your mom? How did you and your H go about handing that conflict and not let it affect your marriage?

I was super emotional and really missing my family.

The last two months have been incredibly difficult for me, with both the family drama and just the normal difficulties that come with moving to a new city, finding community, and learning how to live with a spouse. In the past, I had a very close, albeit tumultuous, relationship with my mom, and we talked usually 3-4 times a week for an hour or so. Good or bad, I was used to that, and it just felt like a void in my life not having that contact. Moreover, my mom is a very powerful force in my FOO, and it has really felt like because she and I aren't on good terms, I am not allowed to talk to anyone else in my family. I feel like I'm sneaking or doing something shameful if I talk to a sister now, even though I know it is completely irrational. My H and I had been planning on driving out to spend the Christmas holiday with my FOO, but we were uninvited (thankfully) before Thanksgiving. Knowing that everyone else was together without me, I think that I just felt left out, unwanted, and grieving for what I know will never be the same in my family. Once you start to recognize truth and patterns and put up boundaries, the "happy" peace of a family just will never be the same, and I'll probably always be the bad guy for changing things. And that's ok.

I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas holiday! God bless 

[Choosinghope]

Your choices and life decisions are yours.  You are an autonomous person.  Family and friends may have thoughts (negative ones are best kept to themselves), but regardless of those thoughts (which can be very misinformed), your family and friends should be there to support you, not make you feel obligated or guilty or even fearful of your family's responses to your choices.

Also, this is exactly what I needed to hear. I'm still learning to distinguish where my "yard" ends and another person's "yard" begins, especially in terms of emotional responsibility. Such a good reminder!

[Methuen]

Were you ever able to find a way to work out your relationship with your mom?

The answer to this question is it's a work in progress, and I'm still in the beginning stages but any change is only coming about because of the work on my end.  She's not changing - in fact she's become a LOT worse with her advancing age and complex health problems.  My husband and kids tell me I'm responding better to her, and handling her well.  I don't trust myself to assess myself, but I do listen to their feedback.  But these "episodes" with her have only been small bumps or potholes (since I started learning about BPD and how to communicate differently with a BPD person).  I have yet to successfully navigate a crater in the road.  But I know that is coming (she wants to stay in her own home, but isn't really capable, and I can't meet ALL her needs).   I'm just trying as hard as I can from my end because it helps me as well as her, and doing the best I can.  I think it's probably making a difference, because there has been less conflict...but I honestly think a large part of it is because I just don't take her bait any more, and communicate with her differently than with non-BP's.  I was definitely part of the problem because I just didn't know how to communicate with her and avoid the bait-taking and conflict.  Learning new skills makes a difference. 

How did you and your H go about handing that conflict and not let it affect your marriage?

We work as a team.  I don't defend my mom at all.  I vent when I need to.  He lets me.  I bounce ideas off of H, and he's very analytical, so he listens to me, and then replies with his thoughts.  I listen to him.  We have a very sound mutual respect, so we work together.  He tells me when I need to stop venting because it's gone on too long, or I'm just saying the same thing over and over.  I listen. Also, when I sense he's saturated, I spend more time on this board.  When I'm saturated I spend more time on this board.  I see a T to cope with my mom, but he now comes to every appt with me, and we learn together how to cope with her.  He readily admits he has learned a lot.  Having him at the appointment gives him a better understanding to be a better sounding board for me.  I won't say it doesn't affect our marriage, because our life would be a lot simpler and freer without the stress of my BPD mom, but we survive with teamwork.  We are stronger together.  I think a key is that I don't defend my mom.  My eyes are wide open.  Another key is that I was desperate to change myself, so that our life would be better.  I also just accepted that my mom wouldn't change, and that it would have to be me that does all the work.

[Turkish]

Is there a cultural dynamic here, or is that just how your family thinks?

Your husband sounds like a peach, both supporting you and also respecting you as a person who is an individual. 

[Methuen]

You are right Turkish.  My H is a peach about most things.  He is a rock, especially when it comes to my uBPD mom.  I make sure he knows how much I appreciate him.  He sees the problems analytically, and without emotion.  I listen to what he has to say.

I've never mentioned it on this board, but he has a sister that has some kind of PD or traits.  He defended her for years.  Her manipulation was painfully obvious, but he didn't see it because he wanted to hang onto his ideal family.  For years, I just kept stating the facts as she brought almost daily chaos into our lives.  He kept getting used and abused by her.  It was aweful.  I don't know what the turning point was, but eventually it came, his eyes slowly opened to her dysfunction, and he gradually came to accept it.  He went NC with her for a period.  But the years that his eyes and ears were closed were hard on our marriage, because she brought absolute strife into our lives, and the lives of our children.  He just couldn't accept his sister's dysfunction.  But when he finally did, the stress in our marriage lessened because that is when we started working as a team.  Since then, the teamwork has just carried on with my mom.  It's like his sister was the training ground for my mom.

My heart goes out to those who don't have the support of a spouse, or where the spouse is in denial, because I have had a taste of that.  It brings constant conflict and stress into a marriage.

I'm a believer in introducing healthy living habits and mental health education into the schools from pre-school and kindergarten up to graduation.  I think skills like wise-mind could be practiced in the schools, much like math and physical education.  I also think that topics around mental health (eg stress management and anger management skills) and healthy living (communication and relationship skills) should be included in curriculum starting from primary school.  It would help couples in relationships cope better with problems like this if they had strong communication and relationship skills.  It just seems like there are so many problems around anxiety and depression (and all mental health disorders) in our society, and also challenges in relationships and families because of this.  I regret not understanding my mom's BPD until I was 57.  If I had the skills I needed to navigate a relationship with her from the time I was a young adult, I think I could have been a more supportive and better daughter than I was.  I did the best I could, but had I had the knowledge then that I'm just acquiring now, our family life would have had more quality.  Finding this board and site was a gold mine of support for me.  Shouldn't this be mainstream information?  How do people find this board?  In my case it was by chance.  My family doctor has never heard of it.  Mental health is just such a forbidden topic in society, and yet EVERYBODY is affected by it.  I am a huge advocate for mental health education because I just see a massive social need for mental health support.  Sorry for the long rant.  Somehow Turkish's question turned into a major rant for what I see as a need for open discussion about mental health, and more supports in society.  Just think of how much healthier our society could be if information like this was a skill learned from kindergarten like physical (health) education is.  I would like to see mental health education go mainstream

[Methuen]

...back to Choosinghope:

I just don't know if it is worth fighting the battle to get my family to know and respect my H

I think part of the answer to this is in your name: Choosinghope.

You won't be able to "make" your family get to know and respect your H.  They have to come to that on their own.  Let them.  It is up to them.   Right now, it kind of sounds like they have judged him in advance.  In my mom's case, she always felt like my husband took me away from her.  I think it's a bit predictable that BPD's could resent the in-law spouse for that reason.

Surround yourself with healthy positive people.  I think it's easier to be positive when we have positive people around us.  Also, enjoy your new nuclear family.  I had to grieve the loss of my ideal mother when I accepted my mom's BPD.  Not gonna lie here...but it was rough.  Lots of crying.  Now it feels better though.  So continue on your path of Choosinghope (I think you chose a great name)

[Turkish]

I was addressing Choosinghope, but yours is too,  Methuen, my bad on not being specific, but I'm glad you're here to offer support.   

The point of a "nuclear family" is how I have navigated my situation; specifically, my kids. The innocent deserve and need to be protected. 

[madeline7]

IN the case of my uBPDm, she will twist and manipulate any situation to make it about her. From my perspective, this issue is not about you making a decision to get married after only a few months, the issue is the borderline making an issue out of it. Even if a close family or friend feels like the courtship was a bit shorter than usual, there is an assertive way to relay their concern, and more specifically, their concern regarding YOU not knowing your partner for a long time before marrying. Your marriage within a 9 month period has little to do with your Mom getting to know him. Thats what the BPD does, make it all about them.

[Choosinghope]

Is there a cultural dynamic here, or is that just how your family thinks?

Turkish, that's just how my family thinks. There is no cultural dynamic at play here. Interestingly, I talked to a childhood friend yesterday (we've been friends since we've been 5), and I shared with her some of my more recent family drama. She made the comment that she's always thought that my family was way too enmeshed and that she would have found my family dynamic to be stifling and overwhelming. It was interesting to have someone outside of my family but who still knows my family well to make that comment. The more I am thinking and analyzing, the more that I agree with her. There's not a lot of independence in my FOO, and my mom is kind of the nexus of everything. The more I learn, the more I understand that I really need to start breaking away from that enmeshment and put up boundaries. She also made the comment that everything I'm just starting to see and understand, she's seen for years but knew I wasn't ready to listen. It's still kind of amazing to me how much we normalize experiences as a child that are so obviously wrong to everyone else.

I had to grieve the loss of my ideal mother when I accepted my mom's BPD.  Not gonna lie here...but it was rough.  Lots of crying.  Now it feels better though.

My T told me on day one that I need to grieve for what my mom will never be for me and then learn to accept exactly who she is, good and bad. I didn't fully understand that day, but the last couple months of crying at the drop of a hat has definitely proved her point. I'm glad it feels better with time though 

Thats what the BPD does, make it all about them.

My childhood friend also pointed out that if my mom was ACTUALLY concerned about me in an abusive marriage, the loving, logical thing to do would be to be present, supportive, and clearly express her concerns. Of course I knew that, but it suddenly clicked when she said it that the health of my marriage really has nothing to do with my mom or her reaction. Oh the clarity. Thanks for all the input and encouragement here. You are all wonderful 

[Turkish]

She also made the comment that everything I'm just starting to see and understand, she's seen for years but knew I wasn't ready to listen.

Several of my friends were hesitant to say things when I was dating my ex, the mother of our children. I heard them after we we split.  I spent Christmas with one of my friends who divorced last year and he said he received similar feedback from his sister's. He was surprised that they thought the way they did about his wife.  Sometimes you're ready only when you're ready. We all grew up with mothers who had issues, so nothing there was a surprise, though they lauded me for trying as much as I did in the end.