BPD wife and her religion

[Depression = 72% of members]

I was reading a thread on christianity and I wanted to reply with experiences with my wife, but decided it was too far off topic.  I want to know if anyone has had to deal with this variant.  My uBPD wife has gotten very religious but not in any kind of standard way.  Her life is ruled by a religion which is vaguely christian-based, but also has bits of Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., and is quite existential and nihilistic. The main tenet is that everything in the world is literally not real, but is completely imagined by the people in it. She truly believes that we (meaning everybody in the world) are all the same person and that we are all here to learn "lessons" so that we will not have to return. She believes that if she studies and meditates hard enough and long enough every day that she will be able to do anything, and anyone else can do the same. She believes that we never die, but come back into this dream again and again until we learn some kind if magic I haven't pinned down yet.

Living with someone that has this kind of belief is hard enough, but she uses it as a bludgeon for practically everything I say or do. For example if If I comment that the traffic is bad she will determine that it is not bad traffic but that I have unclear thinking and created it. On her part, she can use incidents and ideas in the real world either as if they're real or as part of this dream as she sees fit. This ultimately means that she can validate anything if she chooses to, and also invalidate anything she chooses to because it's all part of her "dream".

Yesterday was a good example too. We were skiing and were sitting on a chairlift when I said something about why I thought a ski run wasn't open (I said I thought they closed it because of all the exposed rocks). She said I was wrong and came out with an incomprehensible explanation based on the "dream". I pointed out that there has just been a lot of snow a week earlier and it probably just got skied off. She responded "No that's not it" and went off onto another dream tangent. I wanted to test her to see if she was just telling me everything I say is wrong (as she often does) and said "I'm wrong about everything." This led to about 5 seconds of silence, followed by another variant explanation of her beliefs.

It's not just me who thinks this behavior is a little strange. Her daughter thinks it's quite weird, as does her ex-husband, as does the extended family on both sides.  We were at a dinner a couple of days ago and the looks on the faces of our friends when she started going into it would have been priceless had I not already been thoroughly sick and tired of the whole thing.

Has anyone had any experience with this kind of thing? Does anyone know how to deal with this except through radical acceptance? It is difficult or impossible most times to have any kind of coherent conversation with her as she brings this belief structure into it. All I can seem to do is nod and smile through it all.

[TheRealJongoBong]

I was reading a thread on christianity and I wanted to reply with experiences with my wife, but decided it was too far off topic.  I want to know if anyone has had to deal with this variant.  My uBPD wife has gotten very religious but not in any kind of standard way.  Her life is ruled by a religion which is vaguely christian-based, but also has bits of Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., and is quite existential and nihilistic. The main tenet is that everything in the world is literally not real, but is completely imagined by the people in it. She truly believes that we (meaning everybody in the world) are all the same person and that we are all here to learn "lessons" so that we will not have to return. She believes that if she studies and meditates hard enough and long enough every day that she will be able to do anything, and anyone else can do the same. She believes that we never die, but come back into this dream again and again until we learn some kind if magic I haven't pinned down yet.

Living with someone that has this kind of belief is hard enough, but she uses it as a bludgeon for practically everything I say or do. For example if If I comment that the traffic is bad she will determine that it is not bad traffic but that I have unclear thinking and created it. On her part, she can use incidents and ideas in the real world either as if they're real or as part of this dream as she sees fit. This ultimately means that she can validate anything if she chooses to, and also invalidate anything she chooses to because it's all part of her "dream".

Yesterday was a good example too. We were skiing and were sitting on a chairlift when I said something about why I thought a ski run wasn't open (I said I thought they closed it because of all the exposed rocks). She said I was wrong and came out with an incomprehensible explanation based on the "dream". I pointed out that there has just been a lot of snow a week earlier and it probably just got skied off. She responded "No that's not it" and went off onto another dream tangent. I wanted to test her to see if she was just telling me everything I say is wrong (as she often does) and said "I'm wrong about everything." This led to about 5 seconds of silence, followed by another variant explanation of her beliefs.

It's not just me who thinks this behavior is a little strange. Her daughter thinks it's quite weird, as does her ex-husband, as does the extended family on both sides.  We were at a dinner a couple of days ago and the looks on the faces of our friends when she started going into it would have been priceless had I not already been thoroughly sick and tired of the whole thing.

Has anyone had any experience with this kind of thing? Does anyone know how to deal with this except through radical acceptance? It is difficult or impossible most times to have any kind of coherent conversation with her as she brings this belief structure into it. All I can seem to do is nod and smile through it all.

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[Cat Familiar]

I'm so sorry, Jongo. I've certainly experienced similar from both of my husbands, but nothing quite so extreme, nor intolerant.

The way I see it, these folks are desperate for some connection with a higher power because they feel so lost. The standard religions that they grew up with are not trusted so they have to find something esoteric or create something themselves that is so special and unique that others can't possibly fathom it.

It's really a pain in the neck, but if it's her bandaid for life, I guess you have no option but to tolerate that she is going to spew these thoughts. Perhaps you could put a boundary on how it's applied to you. Maybe make up a fake religion of your own that doesn't allow intolerance or judgment of you. 

[TheRealJongoBong]

To me it seems that she's built up this religion as an impenetrable barrier to anyone who wants to get close to her and also so she holds the power in any interaction with her. To my way of understanding it she considers anything to do with the ego (e.g. feeling anything other than "love", having fun) is bad, unless she is the one who wants to do it. The fact that it makes virtually all of my way of life or opinions meaningless doesn't seem to have any bearing in the matter.

[Sunfl0wer]

D you think this is more than simply religious beliefs but possibly delusional psychosis that may need treatment?

[TheRealJongoBong]

Do you think this is more than simply religious beliefs but possibly delusional psychosis that may need treatment?

For what it's worth I think the beliefs are too extreme to be anything other than delusional psychosis. This diagnosis also fits with her past history.  It hardly matters though, since she's not a danger to self or others there are no remedies other than asking her nicely to do something. It doesn't seem like a good topic to bring up in MC but then again... .

[Sunfl0wer]

Is there the possibility of medication management?

[TheRealJongoBong]

The medication she was on in September seemed to work to minimize her delusional symptoms she was experiencing at that point in time. She stopped taking them after about 6 weeks because she said they didn't agree with her body. That was probably about 6 weeks ago now. Her religiosity also decreased during that time period too and I think she found that disturbing.

Her experience with the pills and psychiatrists the last time also doesn't help to make her want to do that again. The original psychiatrist said that they would refill her prescription once and that turned into a bureaucratic nightmare with no results (we ultimately bought the prescription while on vacation in another country because we couldn't get it filled at home) and the psychiatric appts turned into a mess due to no availability of appts and when she finally got one the psychiatrist called the day before and said they weren't accepting new patients.

The mental health system in the US is appalling.

[Sunfl0wer]

So she did take meds for psychosis for 6 weeks? 

That actually sounds promising.   

It is quite common for persons to discontinue psych meds after feeling a positive affect, they often do not give credit to the meds and falsely believe that their 'normal' feelings =meds are not needed.  Or they often then have a more positive perspective, therefore 'forgetting' or minimizing the original symptoms being treated.

What made her quit?  What were the affects she was bothered by?

What is the likelyhood of finding a way for her to resume the meds, or some med, that you express, "minimize her delusional symptoms."

[TheRealJongoBong]

She never wanted to take them to begin with. The psychiatrist and I convinced her that the only way she was going to get out of psychiatric hold was to take them. Then I told her the only way I was going to go on our vacation with her was that she continue. After we got back she unilaterally decided to go half-dose then quit entirely.

Her main complaint while taking them was constipation, and that she didn't feel like herself because they made her feel really calm. At one point she said that the meds helped her to figure out her wrong thinking that led to eval, but later on changed that to the eval facility itself changing her thinking. She also said that their doubling her antidepressant dose helped more then the antipsychotic.  I have no idea how she arrived at that conclusion.

[Sunfl0wer]

So it sounds like you may be preparing for an upcoming psychotic break to elicit her to "comply" with psychiatric directives? (Or pls explain if I am not completely understanding) Do you think what you are currently seeing will progress more out of touch with reality until she is unmanageable and requires inpatient care?  How do you see this all playing out?

[TheRealJongoBong]

BTW, thanks for talking with me about this, it does help. In answer to your questions I honestly don't know what to think. My sense is that she is using her religion as impervious armor to avoid the exposure she experienced during her last episode. I am definitely worried that she is sliding back into a dissociated state although I have no proof other than what she says she believes. I don't feel as I have any alternative other than to wait and see what happens.

A lot of what I feel is due to the uncertainty of the situation. Her psychotic break earlier this year caught me completely off guard and the symptoms she showed align fairly well with adult onset schizophrenia. I do want some closure on that issue if possible. I've thought more than once that going to a psychiatrist while already on meds will just result in a prescription for more meds and little investigation. I've thought that if she did have another break then that would add to an eventual diagnosis.

[Sunfl0wer]

Her psychotic break earlier this year caught me completely off guard and the symptoms she showed align fairly well with adult onset schizophrenia. I do want some closure on that issue if possible. I've thought more than once that going to a psychiatrist while already on meds will just result in a prescription for more meds and little investigation. I've thought that if she did have another break then that would add to an eventual diagnosis.

I am not sure I am understanding.  Are you feeling that if she is already on meds, then there is little point in updating them as to effectiveness and progressed symptoms? 

They need to be aware of these things to accurately treat her... .if that is possible.  She could be on meds that are needing tweaking.  It is common that meds need adjustments.

[TheRealJongoBong]

Are you feeling that if she is already on meds, then there is little point in updating them as to effectiveness and progressed symptoms? 

I think that she should have followed up on her psychiatric appointments after her involuntary hold to get a professional opinion as to the necessity/efficacy of the medications provided for her. I communicated this request to her and it didn't happen. So now I can either escalate if I feel there is a present need or let it slide. At this point I choose to just monitor the situation.

She was a lot better yesterday. I think the stress of her mother having medical problems (which began early last week) coupled with our holiday dinner with her family (at a restaurant, thankfully) made a lot of her "symptoms" flare up. That being said, today is a new day and I guess I'll see what happens. I'm usually pretty good at figuring out her emotional states after the fact but predicting them is nearly impossible.

Happy holidays to you and your family!