Still leaving, (?) but having doubts

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I spent the last 14 months researching relationships, going to therapy, finding this board (the MOST HELPFUL thing) and convincing myself that I had to separate or divorce my uBPDw of 14 yrs. I had survived the years of abuse, neglect, isolation, etc., by becoming codependent, but finally I decided I had to change, and my only future was separate from her. My wife and her family know we'll split, but we haven't announced to my family or our son (8).

She was in denial at first, but after I told her I had to leave, she made many changes:  she stopped the abuse, she read the Essential Family Guide to BPD, saw a therapist, switched meds, now she is 6 wks into a DBT program.  She definitely appears better, even just having her admit to what she did makes me feel way less crazy.  She accepts the separation but she tries to draw me back, she says she loves me, she's different now, and constantly asks me if someday we might re-join. 

I always say no, at least, not before years of separation; we need to become different people.  I try to appear certain.

I want to keep things civil, and have some contact, and be supportive of her during her changes, but I do NOT want to re-cycle.

We just took a 1 week family vacation with my son and we all tried hard, and it was really fun (for them.) We were away from the problems and bad memories of home. I was sad on the trip because I felt like I am taking away that fun from them, by forcing the separation.  I felt like this will be the last fun trip together, because of me.

First Problem is, I'm having doubts.  What if she really IS different?  She's taking the DBT seriously, and hasn't raged for months.  What if I'm forcing this terrible change on my wife and son just because I'm too weak and impatient to stay with her (I read and admire the people on the "staying" board.)

Second problem is, I can feel myself slipping back into co-dependency.  I think that some of my doubts, much of my support to my wife, and all of the effort I made to make our family vacation smooth and fun, this was all due to me coming back to my old co-dependent habits.  It's comfortable to put her needs first; and she is so needy!

Questions for my friends here:

1.How do you deal with the doubts and guilt of leaving (esp. if they appear to be getting better?)

2. Does anyone have a story where they separated, but did NOT do full no-contact or limited contact, and did not recycle?  That is, can anyone tell me a story where they had some sort of friendship with their BPDx, without getting sucked into multiple recycles?

[UndauntedDad]

I spent the last 14 months researching relationships, going to therapy, finding this board (the MOST HELPFUL thing) and convincing myself that I had to separate or divorce my uBPDw of 14 yrs. I had survived the years of abuse, neglect, isolation, etc., by becoming codependent, but finally I decided I had to change, and my only future was separate from her. My wife and her family know we'll split, but we haven't announced to my family or our son (8).

She was in denial at first, but after I told her I had to leave, she made many changes:  she stopped the abuse, she read the Essential Family Guide to BPD, saw a therapist, switched meds, now she is 6 wks into a DBT program.  She definitely appears better, even just having her admit to what she did makes me feel way less crazy.  She accepts the separation but she tries to draw me back, she says she loves me, she's different now, and constantly asks me if someday we might re-join. 

I always say no, at least, not before years of separation; we need to become different people.  I try to appear certain.

I want to keep things civil, and have some contact, and be supportive of her during her changes, but I do NOT want to re-cycle.

We just took a 1 week family vacation with my son and we all tried hard, and it was really fun (for them.) We were away from the problems and bad memories of home. I was sad on the trip because I felt like I am taking away that fun from them, by forcing the separation.  I felt like this will be the last fun trip together, because of me.

First Problem is, I'm having doubts.  What if she really IS different?  She's taking the DBT seriously, and hasn't raged for months.  What if I'm forcing this terrible change on my wife and son just because I'm too weak and impatient to stay with her (I read and admire the people on the "staying" board.)

Second problem is, I can feel myself slipping back into co-dependency.  I think that some of my doubts, much of my support to my wife, and all of the effort I made to make our family vacation smooth and fun, this was all due to me coming back to my old co-dependent habits.  It's comfortable to put her needs first; and she is so needy!

Questions for my friends here:

1.How do you deal with the doubts and guilt of leaving (esp. if they appear to be getting better?)

2. Does anyone have a story where they separated, but did NOT do full no-contact or limited contact, and did not recycle?  That is, can anyone tell me a story where they had some sort of friendship with their BPDx, without getting sucked into multiple recycles?

[Mutt]

Hi UndauntedDad,



I'm sorry to hear that. I can understand how frustrating and painful that is with the years of the emotional abuse that you survived.

First Problem is, I'm having doubts.  What if she really IS different?  She's taking the DBT seriously, and hasn't raged for months.

What does your intuition tell you? Your personality is a very difficult thing to change and BPD is ingrained in her personality, and what she felt was real to her and it wasn't about you.

She stopped her behaviors, she read a book on BPD, saw a T, changed meds and she is 6 weeks in a DBT program.

A person with a history of BPD says this about a loved one in treatment:

What every Non Needs To Know

A borderlines who is serious about therapy will be responsible enough to make their appointments, be honest with their therapists, and do any and all suggested homework. Borderlines serious about treatment will pursue it, and make a commitment to it.

Anything less than this is a waste of time and money, typically with the borderline just going through the motions to placate someone else.

Some with BPD may want to change but cannot make a commitment, or have the motivation and personal responsibility needed to make it work. If the person with BPD in your life misses appointments, re-schedules them, and/or finds endless reasons why the therapists they've seen is "the problem", "make things difficult" or "just doesn’t understand”, you are likely dealing with someone who isn’t really invested in getting help, or getting better.

Borderline Personality Disorder Therapy - Is Your Loved One Serious?

Your exe's actions speak for themselves, she's trying to help herself and she may have set-backs, it looks like she may be commited to change.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey UndauntedDad, I admire your courage to research relationships, see a T and figure out the best path for you.  Indeed, I was once in your shoes and understand the challenges you face.  Just to give you some background, I was married to a pwBPD for 16 years.  We separated five years ago, have been divorced for two years and have two children together.  So I get it.

The abuse, isolation and turmoil wore me down to a pulp, physically, financially and emotionally.  Towards the end, there was "nothing left in the tank."  I forgot who I was for a while there, which was frightening.  I had become a shadow of my former self.  BPD proved too much for me.  I'm a smart guy and thought I could "figure it out"; instead, I learned the hard way that BPD is an incredibly complex disorder for which there are no easy solutions.

Everyone's situation is a little different and I can't tell you what to do.  I recommend listening to your gut feelings, as Mutt suggests.  Try to do some thinking from the neck down.  What is the right path for you?

I have more to say if you are interested, but am going to sign off for now.

LuckyJim

[Michelle27]

I spent a lot of years wanting to end things but not having the courage to.  I looked at everything as a possible improvement like rages being further apart than usual.  We also have a child together so that was part of my thinking too.  I listened to his promises of getting help and made excuses for him to all of us around me when he didn't follow through.  There came a point though when I couldn't make excuses anymore , even to myself. 

I also researched relationships and spent years researching BPD only to discover that it was unlikely that he was going to get much better unless he totally committed, which he never did, only pretended to enough to keep me staying.  I stayed with him for 15 years, and 9 of them were bad.  His comments to me when I told him I was done were that I didn't give him enough of a chance.  REALLY?

[UndauntedDad]

thanks so much for the guidance, folks.  I do think my wife is serious about change; I am sympathetic to her and I try to be very encouraging and supportive.  She will need that strength, esp. if I am not around her daily in the future, and I know she'll be happier if she can actually change.

Her changes, and my sympathy for her, are the factors pushing me to try for a slow separation, still being friends, etc. I don't want to re-cycle, nor do I want to abandon her; she may feel abandoned no matter what but I want to treat her in a way I can live with.

I realize from time spent here that it is not commonly successful to gently separate from BPDx's or situations of long-term abuse, but she is getting better, and we're all different.  Maybe I'll be lucky too, like Jim!

When I am quiet enough to listen, my gut tells me I need to leave.  It sounds melodramatic, or self-centered, but I have to leave to really catalyze the change necessary for my "self" to survive. I also forgot who I was. I've honestly told my wife, even if she is 100% better, for the rest of her life, I think I would need to leave anyway... .the idea of leaving arose when I finally, rationally, understood that divorce/separation would be less damaging to my family than other alternatives I was constantly fantasizing about.

LuckyJim, I've also thought of myself as "out of gas!"  Funny.  It's sad since I feel like we're out of gas only a few miles out of town, but I'm accepting it as it is.  Or at least, working on accepting it, every day.

[enlighten me]

My exwife dumped me out of the blue. This was long before I had even heard of BPD. Looking back I can see how bad things where and how draining the relationship was to me. I then got together with an exgf. My first love which is when I discovered BPD. I spent months wanting to leave but kept getting sucked back in by hope and the fact we had a child together. Both my exs are undiagnosed ( my ex wife might have been but never told me)  I now have little contact with them and my sons from my marriage live with me. What I realised is that they will do anything to survive. With my exs its lie and cheat. With yours it sounds like DBT and therapy. This may sound harsh but as long as she has hope then she may continue DBT. This can only be a good thing for your child. So by taking away her hope she may give up on it. By saying the only chance is for her to continue treatment your son will have a better mum even though you have no intention of going back.

One thing ive read is that even though pwBPD go through DBT they can finish the treatment and leave their partner. DBT changes them and some cant live with the guilt of what theyve done where as others want something different in life.

[Learning_curve74]

Hey Undaunted, sorry to hear you're having some doubts. I don't know the details of your whole relationship, but you obviously have been together for a long time and through tough times, hadn't left before, so it's natural to have doubts and guilt over a decision to leave.

Everybody's different, and you are always allowed to change your mind if you think that is the best course of action. If you wife reaches a point of healing through therapy, she may no longer be the person you fell in love with, she may still be somebody you aren't interested in having as you significant other. Also, you obviously are a changed person as well, especially if you're making the decision to separate. You may not be the same person who wants or desires her as a spouse anymore.

One of the central dogmas of the boards here is to always take care of yourself. So while it's OK to feel guilt, do you feel that leaving is the best way to help take care of yourself? If so, then the guilt will eventually pass, right?

As far as post-relationship friendship, I am perfectly happy to be friends with my exgf post-breakup. However, we don't have a strong friendship right now mostly because she is leaving me alone. She did have a good friendship with one of her ex-husbands and they never had any ideas about getting back together. Your situation is different as you have kids together, so you'll always be connected somehow.

If you're choosing to leave now, what changes would have to happen that you would make you reconsider getting back together?

[Lucky Jim]

When I am quiet enough to listen, my gut tells me I need to leave.  It sounds melodramatic, or self-centered, but I have to leave to really catalyze the change necessary for my "self" to survive. I also forgot who I was.

Hey Undaunted, Listen to your gut.  No, I don't think you're being melodramatic or self-centered; to the contrary, I think you are heading towards a healthier and happier you, which is the point, isn't it?  We all deserve to be happy.  I suffered for a long time in my marriage to my BPDxW.  Now, I'm at a point where I care too much about myself to allow myself to be abused again.  That phase of my life is over.  No one said the path would be easy after leaving one's BPD SO, but it's my path, which makes all the difference.

LuckyJim

[Mutt]

Hi UndauntedDad,

I don't think it's melodramatic or self-centered, in fact our intuition guides us and supports us. I think it's a good idea we spend time quietly and listen to our intuition.

I can understand how that would be confusing and challenging when our intuition tells us to take a turn we may not understand. Like Lucky Jim says listen to your gut.