should I cut off my family ? ... conflicted ...

[Mecaco]

My history - I cheated on my wife 3 yrs ago.  One night during an argument maybe a year ago she told me I was going to call my parents and tell them what I had done.  My parents are old (I am 50) and she started calling them and hanging up at midnight until they answered.  I told her I would not do it and she started to.  I took the phone from her and told them myself.  I was mortified.  I was crying.  My dad's reaction was "I understand son.  Are YOU ok right now?"  This didn't set well with my wife as she took this to mean that my dad condoned my affair and thought it was ok.  I explained to her that his son was calling after midnight repeatedly, was crying (both of which were highly unusual for me), so of course they are going to try to console me.  They didn't condone it but they were consoling.  Since then my parents are the devil as are my brother.

Other background, when she gets angry it often turns into 3 hour sessions of degrading comments with me taking it all, sometimes it gets physical (hitting, kicking, spitting, hitting with objects), I have called the police once, gotten two orders of protection, and filed for divorce once. 

Flash forward to recent.  I have been given ultimatums that I need to choose between my parents and brother,  and her and my babies.  That when I talk to my parents, I get these crazy ideas (like stand up for myself) and that adds chaos.  I have been given this ultimatum several times and I continue to break it because when we fight sometimes I need emotional support. 

last night she ties my dogs up (28 degrees F outside) to a lamp post on a deserted street and tells me to go get them and take them to my hotel.  I call my brother.  I ask him should I call the police because that just isn't right - it seems to me that it is animal cruelty.  unknown to me, my wife has a friend (she says in homeland security) that shares my conversations with my brother with her, and (according to her) has my iphone erased, and all emails in my email account pertaining to her erased.  I do not know if she did it herself (she had access to my passwords) or if it was her "friend".  Her friend also tells her that a guy she used to date is now single and she should dump me and go to him.

today I get the ultimatum again.  I need to choose.  Today I think it is ok for me to talk to my parents when I have a problem.  I don't think I should have to choose. 

that's a mouthful - but then it has been an awfully eventful 72 hours.

Do I need to choose?  I shouldn't have to, right?  Even if my brother says "dude that's animal cruelty you need to call the police" that should be ok because it is a private conversation and she shouldn't have been eavesdropping, right?

 

[Tattered Heart]

THis sounds like a fear tactic to me. Your family is a threat to the relationship because it is the last thing that will keep you from being completely isolated from everyone. Thus it is a threat. The ultimatum she is giving you is not your choice to make. It sounds like she is setting you up to reject her (in her mind). If you choose your family, then you discard her, giving her a reason to go and do whatever she wants.

I would seriously doubt she has a friend in Homeland Security erasing your emails. That would be an abuse of their power and why would they involve themselves in something as small as emails about someone's wife. It sounds like perhaps your wife is trying to get a jealous response to you by talking about this "friend". The person may or may not exist.

The fact of the matter is that she is trying to make you choose between two things you should not have to choose between. It's not a real choice. I would matter of factly tell her that "No. I am not going to give up with my relationship with you or my family. You are both my family." When she sees you waiver she thinks that she has the possibility of winning. Hopefully over time she will see that abandoning your family is not an option and stop putting the ultimatum out there.

[teapay]

Your family sound like rational, loving and supportive people who care about you.  If that is the case, let them help you and your thinking until you get firmer bearings. Sometimes nons need that.  It is okay.

[MrWtn1978]

So sorry!

The BPDs often put you in impossible binds.  You should not have to choose between her and your kids, and your family of origin.  She is threatened by them because they encourage you to stand up for yourself and she can't take it.  Sounds like she is used to getting her way in the relationship, so standing up for yourself will be very difficult, but so very necessary! Understand, even if you cut off your family, and did everything she wanted, she would not be happy and you would still be the "bad guy" who is responsible for all her problems.  Letting them win doesn't help, it makes it worse.  You need the support of your family and friends.  She won't like it, but it is a NEED of yours. 

Have you read any of the books on BPD?   Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder  is a good place to start.  Here is a link. https://smile.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1482424806&sr=1-1&keywords=walking+on+eggshells

[Sunfl0wer]

I am not sure about animal cruelty laws, but animals actually survive weather no? I cannot imagine calling animal services for two healthy german shepards, but maybe some pomeranians that were there all day? Idk!

Yea, you can choose to call animal services if you feel the animals aren't being treated properly.  (I called when a neighbor of mine was viciously attacked, idk,why victim didn't)

Yet be aware, this could escalate conflict between you two, where simply retrieving the dogs may give you more peace in your life.

Your choice.
Neither is wrong, simply choices.

Do I need to choose?  I shouldn't have to, right?  Even if my brother says "dude that's animal cruelty you need to call the police" that should be ok because it is a private conversation and she shouldn't have been eavesdropping, right?

Simply... .
Your choices are yours.
Likewise, hers are hers.

There are no "shoulds" here.  There is no situation where someone should do something therefore someone is wrong or right.  That is bogus stuff, and a distraction from the real issues here.

What is working for you in this relationship?
What do you want to do?

Maybe I am not understanding, but it appears that things are escalating between you two and next post you may make will be damage to property or a person.

Please take some space.

You seem to be emotionally charged (understandably)  and it is hard to make wise decisions from such position.

Please refrain from thinking you need to decide to cut off your family.
Your conflict is with your wife.
If you two cannot be in each others company without deescalating things, I strongly suggest you find some space.

What are your thoughts?
Are you able to be in each others company and there be a non emotionally charged presence between you two?

What ever was the result of the orders of protection?
How long were each of them?

[TommyBahama]

Mecaco I hope things get better for you.  Your parents sound like amazing people.  That was such a caring response by your dad.  I would not cut them off in any way.  My mom has been a huge support for me during this time with my BPD wife.  Your wife is trying to manipulate you by putting the babies into it.  Please keep records of what is going on in case she ever does try to keep you from your kids and you have to go to court.  I do not believe anyone should ever stop a kid from seeing their parents.

Dogs can be out in cold weather, but not tied to a pole, if they are out in the cold they need to be able to move around so that they find someplace warm for them or to dig a warm hole or something.

I do not think she knows anyone in homeland security.  She is probably gaslighting you about the homeland security thing.  Try completely wiping your phone by doing a factory reset (back up your pictures and other data first or they will be deleted).  She possibly has a spy software installed on your phone.  I work in I.T. and there are many such programs out there.  Erasing a phone is easy if you do not have access to it, you can even do this with free software designed to protect your phone if it is stolen.  Some of these programs can even take pictures of the thieves or let you listen in to what they are doing with your phone.  She would have only had to have physical access to your phone once to install the software and then could eavesdrop whenever she wanted after that.

Take care of yourself and your babies and lean on your family for support.  They sound like great people.

[lovenature]

What would you tell your best friend if he was with your partner and she demanded he cut off his family?

Of course you should be able to talk to your family without her knowing the conversation; in a healthy, mature relationship BOTH partners respect and trust each other. She wants to isolate you from your family so she can better control you.

[Notwendy]

Hi Mecaco,

I think it would help you to study the drama triangle very carefully. Then you will understand the process going on. Your wife (VICTIM) triangulated by involving your parents to rescue (RESCUE) her by punishing you.( PERSECUTOR). When your parents did what loving parents do- ask if you are OK, they basically in your wife's mind became the persecutor. She is victim ( from my experience that is the preferred mode) and is making you be rescuer.

So, my question to you is:

Is what she wants what you want? ( no boundaries, basically she is you and you are her) or do you feel that the two of you can want different things?

Do all conversations have to be shared by the two of you or do you feel you both can have your own private conversations with other people?

How will you feel about yourself if you cut off your family?

Do you think this will solve your marital issues- she will be happy all is well if only you did this one thing she wants?

How will your family feel if you do this? ( you know if will be hurtful). How will you feel if you know how much you hurt them?

[Notwendy]

I think it's important to know what our boundaries are in any relationship. Our boundaries reflect our values - what or who is important to us. There isn't a right or wrong when enforcing them, but there are choices and consequences. When we choose to defend our boundaries- we may face the consequences of the other persons anger and threats, but if our boundaries are important to us- we will defend them regardless. A boundary isn't something we impose on someone else- it's how we make our choices.

So she is asking you to choose her or your family. You have choices- one is to choose her, the other is to choose them. But there is another one and that is to refuse to choose altogether- to tell her gently - I love you all and refuse to choose between you because to do that would feel terrible to me. I don't want to hurt people I love dearly. It would devastate my parents, hurt me and you. I don't want to do this.

If you could read the posts on the family board from heartbroken parents whose children cut them off because of their spouses demands you might think about this differently. If you value your family members- then defend that value.