It’s really bad at the kids’ mom’s house

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I too have experience with fleas, except this is in my MIL house, who kinda spiraled after her divorce...20 some odd years ago. Now her house is infested with fleas, to the point where she will refuse to put flea collars on her cats as it may cause them to get cancer. In the mean time she has said outloud that the "kitties have priority in this house"...in front of her only granddaughter, who gets eaten alive by them everytime we stay there. my BPD wife (undiagnosed currently, but working on that) keeps defending her mom and dresses our daughter in long sleeve shirts, pants, and knee high socks in the middle of summer, with the thermostat set to 80. I have asked my wife for years to address this issue with her mom, and will not allow me to bring it up in front of her. I finally put my foot down a year ago and refused to have my daughter stay there. Regardless if they are family or not. Its not right, nor is it healthy for the kiddo, who is only 6.

[boundriesrus]

I too have experience with fleas, except this is in my MIL house, who kinda spiraled after her divorce...20 some odd years ago. Now her house is infested with fleas, to the point where she will refuse to put flea collars on her cats as it may cause them to get cancer. In the mean time she has said outloud that the "kitties have priority in this house"...in front of her only granddaughter, who gets eaten alive by them everytime we stay there. my BPD wife (undiagnosed currently, but working on that) keeps defending her mom and dresses our daughter in long sleeve shirts, pants, and knee high socks in the middle of summer, with the thermostat set to 80. I have asked my wife for years to address this issue with her mom, and will not allow me to bring it up in front of her. I finally put my foot down a year ago and refused to have my daughter stay there. Regardless if they are family or not. Its not right, nor is it healthy for the kiddo, who is only 6.

[kells76]

Yeah, SD18 and I may need to talk about how in the moment, I suggested a lower skill approach to conflict -- telling her "tell them whatever you need to to keep yourself safe" -- but long term we need to figure out a different approach to get her needs met. She said last night that she just wanted to be loved and to have a good connection with her mom. I wonder if SD18 is trying to get that need met by being Victim ("I had no idea kells76 wanted to make the call") and being Rescued by Mom.

She texted a bit ago and said it went pretty ok and she felt better. But then H texted me saying Mom seemed to be messing with SD18's head, because SD18 was texting him for reassurance that he wasn't going to try to get custody of SD16.

[ForeverDad]

In my case an officer listened to my ex's repeated death threats, as recorded before, during and after my call to 911.  The officer told me to file a report, took a copy of my recording as documentation, and warned me not to drop the case as so many do or else it would get even worse.

The voice recorder's speaker didn't work so during the week I downloaded it and played it for another officer.  I signed the report, he advised me to never ever think about wimping out and withdrawing the report, and Threat of DV case was started against her.

I suspect all DV responders are aware of the likelihood of persons recanting, especially children.  The fear and guilt are no doubt tremendous.  How to reassure them that the sudden blaming is not their fault?

[kells76]

FD, my T is on the same page -- the fact that SD18 called back right away and said "can I take it all back" is, I am praying, noticed by the hotline staff as more evidence of the dynamic.

[Pook075]

She texted a bit ago and said it went pretty ok and she felt better. But then H texted me saying Mom seemed to be messing with SD18's head, because SD18 was texting him for reassurance that he wasn't going to try to get custody of SD16.

SD16 and 18 will get through this, and you will as well.  The chaos is for right now, not for forever, so keep things in perspective when dealing with the blowout over the next few days/weeks.  Everyone is at a heightened state wondering what will happen, but that will pass when something does happen.

Remember, this happened because mom wasn't being the best mom.  That's on her.  Let them learn from this and hopefully, that home becomes a better environment for everyone involved.

[kells76]

That's our hope too, that Mom feels supported and gets help with making things better there.

CPS called me today and chatted for ~20 minutes.  They want to do a home visit with us and the kids tomorrow evening.

H is concerned that Mom will make counter accusations, and I'd wondered that, too.

[kells76]

Going back to the triangulation stuff, as unhealthy as it is, it would be a familiar dynamic to have Kids = Victims, Mom&Stepdad = Rescuers, and Dad&kells76 = Perpetrators. It would be unhealthy but hopefully stable for the next 2 days?

[Pook075]

H is concerned that Mom will make counter accusations, and I'd wondered that, too.

I'd be surprised if she didn't make counter-accusations, to be honest.  But what matters is actual evidence, documentation, etc.  Harsh words, not so much.  I wouldn't be overly concerned about that aspect.

[Turkish]

A CPS home visit would make me nervous, but once it's done, it's over. And you have no fleas and rats to put away.

[livednlearned]

CPS called me today and chatted for ~20 minutes.  They want to do a home visit with us and the kids tomorrow evening.

How do you feel about the call?

Counter-accusations were a mainstay of my co-parenting experience it became almost like wallpaper. The tricky part wasn't so much what materializes out of the accusations, it's how my kid felt in the middle.

Something I learned from our parenting coordinator was to ask my son, "Do you have any questions for me?" No pressing or anything, just opening the door in case he wanted to walk through. He didn't always have questions in the moment but he did seem to have them later, often they were things I never thought he would be wondering. One thing that always struck me as odd was his concern that n/BPDx would be lonely. For some reason, whatever we were going through at the time, I had reached a place of certainty that I was doing the right thing, probably with the confidence and support from the parenting coordinator. I think my certainty that I had a job to do, and it was about making sure S11 was safe, cleared away whatever anxieties S11 had. His job was to be a kid and my job was to make sure the adults in his life were making sure he could do that.

I get the sense your kids know that about you and H, despite mom and stepdad's chronic triangulation?

[ForeverDad]

As you are surely well aware, the investigators will want some separate time with the children, possibly together and separately.  They will want the girls to feel free and comfortable to relate their experiences.  While SD18 has no legal requirement to remain in that home, SD16 still has a greater to stick it out there, whether because she's not an adult yet, loyalty to her younger brother or loyalty to her mother, etc.  (Since B11 is in the other home, his intervews will likely be elsewhere, perhaps also at his school which is usually considered a "neutral" location.)

Understand that despite them living part of their lives with you in a stable and calm home, they still may not realize how much their other home's environment has impacted them.

No one wants to be seen in a bad light.  So it's predictable that the other parents, as disordered and dysfunctional as they are, will feel no compunction against Blame Shifting everything onto whomever they can.

Expect too for BioMom and her husband to rush to clean up their home before a visit.

[zachira]

One thing to keep in mind is that CPS has very high employee turnover rates so if you get the impression that the worker interviewing you is inexperienced you will likely be right.

[Notwendy]

I think this kind of behavior surprises us but if we consider that the pwBPD is in victim perspective and doesn't believe they are accountable for their behavior, then in that moment, they feel they are being attacked and so a counter accusation and escalation are part of their reaction.

I experienced something similar when expressing concern about my BPD mother's behavior with my- at the time- elderly father. I called social services to see what intervention might be possible but being that he was a legal adult, he'd have to be the one to agree to that.

With the Karpman triangle- rarely are adults true victims because adults have choices. True victims include children and the elderly/infirm because they are dependent on others to take care of them. So, it was entirely appropriate that you stood up for the children, (and that I stood up for my father) in their situations. The problem is in the dynamics with a person with BPD. To them, they are in victim position. Part of the family dynamics was to not address BPD mother's behaviors.

The reaction from my BPD mother once there was the possibility of "exposure" and the potential embarrassment/shame (it wasn't my intention to have her feel that way) was the counter- accusations- to tell others her version first. (I had no intention of discussing her with other people).

If my mother is at odds with someone, she elicits people to "her side" against the other person either with coersion or threats. There's no way to know what she's told the girls to get them to "recall" what they said. My mother has called me to tell me to "call so and so and say this to them" and she's also enlisted other people to do this with me too. I may get a call from someone in her circle saying how wonderful she is and how I should do something she wants done and I know she's asked them to do this.

Once people have heard her version, it puts me in a difficult position to try to clarify the situation. For me to talk about her in a negative way can also be seen in a negative light. But these are people in her circle- not mine so they can believe what they believe.

But what is at stake here is more serious than a social connection. The girls' well being is at stake. You will be talking to CPS. It's their job to decide to believe you or not. On your part, you need to know you did your best for the girls and were open and honest with them.

[kells76]

I'd be surprised if she didn't make counter-accusations, to be honest.  But what matters is actual evidence, documentation, etc.  Harsh words, not so much.  I wouldn't be overly concerned about that aspect.

There is a part of me that is relieved, in a way, that there is finally a physical manifestation of the emotional chaos. There was never enough to hang your hat on, when it was "just" emotional and psychological dysfunction, but the material state of Mom's house is actionable, and seems like a real world representation of the chaos and conflict.

It would not be surprising if she says that H and I don't support the kids' identities, are hateful bigots, and have a terrifying amount of firearms. She is good at making emotionally convincing arguments based on a grain of truth.

[kells76]

A CPS home visit would make me nervous, but once it's done, it's over. And you have no fleas and rats to put away.

We did realize that SD16's room (well, "room" -- legally it is not a room because it does not have a real door, but I built a jerry rigged one) did not have a smoke detector, even though there was one in the hall, so H put one in.

I think like I mentioned above, it's the cultural stuff (differing religious beliefs informing approaches to identity; having firearms/weapons in the home) that I would be worried about, but the process is already rolling and it is what it is. I guess I feel a weird relief that it's kind of out of my hands how this turns out.

[Pook075]

There is a part of me that is relieved, in a way, that there is finally a physical manifestation of the emotional chaos. There was never enough to hang your hat on, when it was "just" emotional and psychological dysfunction, but the material state of Mom's house is actionable, and seems like a real world representation of the chaos and conflict.

It would not be surprising if she says that H and I don't support the kids' identities, are hateful bigots, and have a terrifying amount of firearms. She is good at making emotionally convincing arguments based on a grain of truth.

Sure, but you're expecting that and what you're doing is not illegal.  All social services cares about is if a home is safe for the kids; all the other stuff is just noise they're trained to filter out.  So let her say whatever...it really doesn't matter as long as your home is in order and you care for the kids properly (food, hygiene, transportation, safe environment, support).

It must be a big relief for this to be out of your hands- what happens will happen and it's no longer about empty words.  And maybe nothing happens...that's fine...because the point has been made that there is a minimum standard by the state.

[kells76]

How do you feel about the call?

I felt relieved that she asked about bigger context and I got on the record that I'd had concerns about the emotional/psychological stuff going on over there for >10 years. I also told her about how Wednesday night went down -- that I'd hoped that it would be better for the kids if Mom got a heads up, but instead it escalated and ended up with SD18 calling me crying saying she was scared because of how angry Mom and Stepdad were, and me driving over and on the phone telling her to get the kids together in a bedroom with their phones.

She was the 4th person at DHS with whom I talked and honestly everyone has been really kind. I definitely had/have a knee-jerk stance of "keep government out of family life" but this is beyond that and I'm grateful they've seemed compassionate.

Counter-accusations were a mainstay of my co-parenting experience it became almost like wallpaper. The tricky part wasn't so much what materializes out of the accusations, it's how my kid felt in the middle.

Something I learned from our parenting coordinator was to ask my son, "Do you have any questions for me?" No pressing or anything, just opening the door in case he wanted to walk through. He didn't always have questions in the moment but he did seem to have them later, often they were things I never thought he would be wondering. One thing that always struck me as odd was his concern that n/BPDx would be lonely. For some reason, whatever we were going through at the time, I had reached a place of certainty that I was doing the right thing, probably with the confidence and support from the parenting coordinator. I think my certainty that I had a job to do, and it was about making sure S11 was safe, cleared away whatever anxieties S11 had. His job was to be a kid and my job was to make sure the adults in his life were making sure he could do that.

Thank you for that -- I think that's what I need to remember through all this is not to get caught up in "what's Mom saying now" but to step back and focus on the kids, and how they feel about the process, instead of on the adults.

I get the sense your kids know that about you and H, despite mom and stepdad's chronic triangulation?

H was great about explicitly telling the kids that developmentally, they should not be doing the "house management and parenting" stuff. He told SD18 that she needs to be focused on launching her own life right now, and told SD16 that it is not her job to take over for SD18 no matter how good SD16 is at that stuff.

[kells76]

As you are surely well aware, the investigators will want some separate time with the children, possibly together and separately.  They will want the girls to feel free and comfortable to relate their experiences.  While SD18 has no legal requirement to remain in that home, SD16 still has a greater to stick it out there, whether because she's not an adult yet, loyalty to her younger brother or loyalty to her mother, etc.  (Since B11 is in the other home, his intervews will likely be elsewhere, perhaps also at his school which is usually considered a "neutral" location.)

DHS explicitly told me that they want to talk to the kids at our house tonight. We haven't told the kids yet but H is telling SD16 at school pickup today and I'm telling SD18 when I get her this afternoon.

Understand that despite them living part of their lives with you in a stable and calm home, they still may not realize how much their other home's environment has impacted them.

No one wants to be seen in a bad light.  So it's predictable that the other parents, as disordered and dysfunctional as they are, will feel no compunction against Blame Shifting everything onto whomever they can.

Expect too for BioMom and her husband to rush to clean up their home before a visit.

SD16 told me "I always though you were just a clean freak until I started spending time at my friends' houses".

I'll try to keep those reminders about Blame Shifting in mind, that (a) it'll probably happen, and (b) the real issue isn't what Mom says but how the kids feel.

I kind of expect Mom to rush to make the kids clean up the home, putting the guilt on them that "if you don't clean it well enough then they'll take B11 away".

[kells76]

One thing to keep in mind is that CPS has very high employee turnover rates so if you get the impression that the worker interviewing you is inexperienced you will likely be right.

Thank you, it's good to know I shouldn't be surprised. All the phone screeners/workers were great but yes, that may not translate to field workers.

[kells76]

I think this kind of behavior surprises us but if we consider that the pwBPD is in victim perspective and doesn't believe they are accountable for their behavior, then in that moment, they feel they are being attacked and so a counter accusation and escalation are part of their reaction.

...

But what is at stake here is more serious than a social connection. The girls' well being is at stake. You will be talking to CPS. It's their job to decide to believe you or not. On your part, you need to know you did your best for the girls and were open and honest with them.

That sounds accurate -- Mom is really checked out, but "she's just so busy with work and school" -- how could it possibly be her fault, she's just a hard working adult student turning her life around.

It's interesting, too; last weekend, we bought a "flea fogger" for the kids and explained to the kids how to use it and that they needed to tell B11 about it. SD18 said they did use it and it seemed to be working. But there was this feeling of like "see, things aren't that bad, because now the fleas are getting under control" without putting the last pieces together of: Mom literally did nothing to solve that. It actually isn't a good thing that the flea problem is getting addressed this way, because it's kind of proving that Mom isn't addressing it! It's Dad walking the kids through how to do it, so no, it isn't a good thing that "it's getting better", because at a meta level, the reason why it was bad has not been addressed.

...

I hope that even if the kids don't like how the process has gone, they can keep in mind that they want things to be better for their brother.

[GaGrl]

It might take several flea bombs to fully contain the problem. Eggs will hatch, and if the cat isn't given a flea bath with something to repel fleas going forward, it will be a cycle. Does the cat go outside?

[livednlearned]

I think like I mentioned above, it's the cultural stuff (differing religious beliefs informing approaches to identity; having firearms/weapons in the home) that I would be worried about, but the process is already rolling and it is what it is. I guess I feel a weird relief that it's kind of out of my hands how this turns out.

Firearms may come up when they visit. Safety was on the radar for us because n/BPDx had them in the home, mostly in regard to well checks and domestic assistance but it was one of those things that seemed to get attention whenever third-party professionals were involved. They may want to know the basics like are the guns locked up, where are they located, what kind, who has access, etc.

I think competent third-party professionals can kinda tell who is staying focused on the kids, and who is focused on throwing mud at the other parent to create a shield.

Like Notwendy said, with BPD there is a need to be victim regardless of facts. My ex also had an internal mandate to make sure whatever was bad about him, I must be worse.

Stepdad might have more of that given his narcissism.

Kind of makes me wonder if you want to give your HR person a heads up. I did that proactively at the suggestion of my boss after she got a bizarre email from n/BPDx.

[kells76]

Firearms may come up when they visit. Safety was on the radar for us because n/BPDx had them in the home, mostly in regard to well checks and domestic assistance but it was one of those things that seemed to get attention whenever third-party professionals were involved. They may want to know the basics like are the guns locked up, where are they located, what kind, who has access, etc.

I think competent third-party professionals can kinda tell who is staying focused on the kids, and who is focused on throwing mud at the other parent to create a shield.

Yeah, it's all in safes (ammo separate), and the kids have never expressed any interest in handling them or made any worrisome jokes or comments. H and I both have keys, but I don't think the kids know I have a key. We've never seen any indication that they have tried to get into stuff without telling us. We do try to at least talk about gun safety if there's a movie showing unsafe habits, but that's as far as it goes. It's just difficult to know how CPS will take it because we live in an area that has very different cultural perspectives on firearms (i.e., we are not in a rural area).

Like Notwendy said, with BPD there is a need to be victim regardless of facts. My ex also had an internal mandate to make sure whatever was bad about him, I must be worse.

Stepdad might have more of that given his narcissism.

It's been a long time since I posted about this, but H is a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, and Mom knows that. And, unrelatedly, as far as I recall, he did have an HR complaint against him from ~15-20 years ago, when he worked for a large corporation and made a "your mom" or "that's what she said" response to something a coworker said.

I'm worried that Mom will try to paint him as a sexual abuser. I know, big picture, that (a) allegations from decades ago don't count, (b) the timing would be suspect, and (c) if she's that concerned about it, she sure didn't do anything to protect the kids at all.

But she's in victim/fight/flight mode so I worry.

Kind of makes me wonder if you want to give your HR person a heads up. I did that proactively at the suggestion of my boss after she got a bizarre email from n/BPDx.

Thank you. My team lead and boss were wondering that already, so I just emailed them to say let's get HR in the loop ahead of time, hope nothing happens, but be prepared if it does.

[ForeverDad]

You've been dealing with this for years and years.  Now suddenly it's virtually exploded.  Why?  That can be explained as a typical process, a concept applied to the price of precious metals in the last 6 months and for more examples too... "Gradually, then suddenly."

In Ernest Hemingway’s novel, The Sun Also Rises, in one conversation an interlocuter questions another on how he went bankrupt, resulting in the now well-known response: “Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” The witty reply is one that can be applied to many situations: falling asleep, financial crises, rogue waves, avalanches, and even death.

CPS needs to understand this is not something that developed only recently, this has been simmering for years.  So a quick fix and exit stage left will not address the core issues.  Sadly, that's a dilemma officialdom faces, too often they just don't try to fix people, it usually fails.  So for the future there needs to be strong enforceable Boundaries.

[kells76]

Survived the CPS home visit, lasted ~90 minutes: 30 min for SD16 (who requested that SD18 be there too) and 60 minutes for H and me. They did not ask to see anything in our house. They said that Mom's house did appear cleaned up. Investigation process takes 30-60 days. They did take contact info for my T (who is acquainted with Mom/Stepdad), H's T (our MC, who has worked with Stepdad, and with H and Mom in the past), the kids' old T (has worked with both kids and all 4 adults), and the kids' former teacher from the co-op school times (when H got a one year job there ~9 years ago, Mom pulled the kids out for only that year then re-enrolled them when H's contract was up).

There was one question one of them asked that kind of felt like a "bait to see if you react" question (about one of SD16's unusual interests) but we try to support her in it so it wasn't a big deal.

They did ask H if he had any official diagnoses or took any prescription meds (no and no), hard to say if that was a normal part of the "functionality" assessment or was based on something Mom said.

I have a report # because I didn't make an anonymous report, so I may check on things over the next few weeks.

SD18 flies out of the country tomorrow morning... Hasn't really sunk in yet.

[livednlearned]

It must be a relief to have that out of the way.

How did SD18 seem to be doing? What a lot of stress to experience before her trip. It's hard to imagine how she must be feeling. Hopefully she eventually sees shining sunlight on the situation as a hard but adult (and courageous) thing to do.

Something that I realized in my custody battle is that often there are two related but separate outcomes.

One is the official/legal outcome, and the other is the BPD/NPD outcome (retaliation, parental alienation, loyalty binding). If the third-party professionals are competent, the official/legal outcome seems to help manage the BPD/NPD outcome a bit, even if it doesn't do it quickly or effectively right away.

The BPD/NPD outcome can spin out some weird chaos. n/BPDx took a kind of "burn them all down" approach to anyone involved in our case, including his L who withdrew. It was mostly performative, or maybe his substance abuse was too far along to keep up the effort it took to light things on fire. It was like he experienced a narcissistic injury from anyone who participated in maligning him, even when it was his own actions that were being investigated. None of it really went anywhere though. He was so disordered toward the end he wasn't thinking very clearly.

Maybe you'll eventually get to learn what some of the other professionals have shared when the investigation is over. In some states I think you can request the final CPS report (after the active investigation closes) through public records.

It's a lot to have professionals invade your private life like this, even if you know it might help.

Hope you get a little respite and that things stay quiet for a second so you can catch your breath 

[zachira]

It sounds like CPS is doing a thorough investigation. You are very likely believed because you have had custody of the girls for many years so it does not look like a sudden smear campaign to get full custody as often happens with recent/impending divorces. You were transparent and open which was likely welcomed by the CPS investigators as they are often treated with a great deal of hostility and dishonesty. CPS may not be able to tell you much about what they find out because of confidentiality though you will likely learn through other sources what actions CPS takes or by changes you see.

Getting CPS involved will likely validate for the girls what they have been experiencing for years and help them to mature into being healthier adults then their mother and step dad.

[kells76]

It sounds like CPS is doing a thorough investigation. You are very likely believed because you have had custody of the girls for many years so it does not look like a sudden smear campaign to get full custody as often happens with recent/impending divorces. You were transparent and open which was likely welcomed by the CPS investigators as they are often treated with a great deal of hostility and dishonesty. CPS may not be able to tell you much about what they find out because of confidentiality though you will likely learn through other sources what actions CPS takes or by changes you see.

Getting CPS involved will likely validate for the girls what they have been experiencing for years and help them to mature into being healthier adults then their mother and step dad.

What's interesting is that H doesn't have custody, at all. And yeah, I am hoping that the fact that this is >10 years post divorce will keep them from thinking it's a "retribution" or "getting back" situation.

In a way, it's sort of a relief in this process -- no, H has never had any say in or made any legal decisions for their health, education, etc. If there's an issue there, it's a Mom problem.

I may offer them a couple more names of the kids' former teachers, from their ~4th-8th grade school that Mom picked.

[kells76]

It must be a relief to have that out of the way.

How did SD18 seem to be doing? What a lot of stress to experience before her trip. It's hard to imagine how she must be feeling. Hopefully she eventually sees shining sunlight on the situation as a hard but adult (and courageous) thing to do.

I have no idea if I feel relieved. I told my T that I'm not sure I can relax now until SD16 graduates from HS in 3 years 1 month. H and I talked and are on the same page that even though she turns 18 before graduating, we are staying in town and not moving until she has graduated (at 19).

Both kids seemed okay-ish; it was very "full circle" Friday night because it was the first time SD18 had driven herself over to our place, and at the end of the night, she drove herself and SD16 back. I can put myself in her shoes and remember being around that age and so excited to strike out on my own, especially if there was a boyfriend/SO involved. Her SO seems to be a kind and supportive person, who I hope has some good perspective on helping SD18 see that this was not the wrong thing to do, just because of how people responded. I didn't hear anything like "Well SO didn't think it was a good idea to call".

Something that I realized in my custody battle is that often there are two related but separate outcomes.

One is the official/legal outcome, and the other is the BPD/NPD outcome (retaliation, parental alienation, loyalty binding). If the third-party professionals are competent, the official/legal outcome seems to help manage the BPD/NPD outcome a bit, even if it doesn't do it quickly or effectively right away.

The BPD/NPD outcome can spin out some weird chaos. n/BPDx took a kind of "burn them all down" approach to anyone involved in our case, including his L who withdrew. It was mostly performative, or maybe his substance abuse was too far along to keep up the effort it took to light things on fire. It was like he experienced a narcissistic injury from anyone who participated in maligning him, even when it was his own actions that were being investigated. None of it really went anywhere though. He was so disordered toward the end he wasn't thinking very clearly.

That bold part is what I wonder about with the rage directed at SD18 Wednesday night.

I told SD16 in the car this morning that I was sorry for how things went down Wednesday night, and I wished I had found a different way to give Mom a heads up. Sounds like SD16 is fully in the "DHS really isn't the right call for all situations, we just have a different lifestyle, and there was a lot of missing context" camp (i.e., Mom's kool-aid, I'm guessing). But she still got in the car with me and invited H and I to her school event tomorrow. She said she wasn't mad at me and that it's in the past now.

I told her that I wanted her to know that it was at a point that if I didn't call, that my therapist said she would have to -- that the call could be made under our control, or not under our control, but was going to happen.

I didn't tell her that my concern was way less about "lifestyle" and way more about how there is no lifestyle that should be OK with throwing/breaking things around kids and scaring them with unsafe driving and other behaviors.

Going back to the "two outcomes" point, re: retaliation/PA/loyalty, I don't know if she's just saying stuff ("I'm not mad") but doesn't trust us any more, or just saying stuff ("shouldn't have gotten DHS involved") but does still trust us, or what. It is my biggest fear, that we've damaged the trust we've worked so hard to build with her. All I can hope is that no matter what she says, the fact that she still tells us about her life and wants us involved is something?

Maybe you'll eventually get to learn what some of the other professionals have shared when the investigation is over. In some states I think you can request the final CPS report (after the active investigation closes) through public records.

It's a lot to have professionals invade your private life like this, even if you know it might help.

Hope you get a little respite and that things stay quiet for a second so you can catch your breath  

Because it was not an anonymous report, I have the report # and can track its progress. I'll have to look up our state's CPS records laws. Yay, another first for 2024  

H and I went out of town this past weekend. We may have to be in the same room as Mom/Stepdad tomorrow for SD16's school presentation, and then Saturday for SD16's extracurricular. Not excited.

H and I picking up SD16 from Mom's in the morning went OK late last week and today. Not sure why it's going OK -- but I guess we'll take it a day at a time.

I feel beyond wrecked. Zero stars, would not recommend.

[kells76]

Picking up SD16 at Mom's in the a.m. has been going OK. I just sit in the car and text her when I get there. H did go up to the door and knocked the other day; Stepdad answered the door, called for SD16, and shut the door on H. At least H could laugh it off. And it doesn't seem like Mom or Stepdad are trying to "convince" SD16 that "she doesn't really want to go with us". I don't know why not; that's what they'd usually do in the past.

We all went to a school event for SD16 last night. We saw Mom & Stepdad across the hall, waited for them to go in the room first, then went in and sat on the opposite side of the room. Stepdad was his usual self, center of attention/super loud. H said that Mom looked rough. SD16 did come up to us and chat a bit -- wasn't doing the "if Mom is here then I'll pretend I don't see you" thing.

H has been texting with SD16 to plan some trips this summer. She is really excited about a couple of them and has given input about when she wants to do them. So that's positive, that she still wants to do things with us. I am coping with lots of anxiety about how this weekend (when she should be with us) she said she wants to spend all day Friday, plus Friday night, at Mom's (Friday is all-grades prom at school, and Saturday she has a midday extracurricular event). I can kind of talk myself down by putting myself in her shoes -- she said she wants to get ready at Mom's and plus she has her event stuff (a lot to lug around) at Mom's. The fear is still there, that she's just coming up with plausible excuses not to spend the night at our place, or that after her event on Saturday, she'll say something like "Can I just go back to Mom's, I'm really tired" or something. I am working to get in the headspace of "whatever she and H work out is cool with me" -- it's H's parenting time so if he's good with something then that's his deal.

Overall, I really have no idea what to expect at any moment. I am 1000% looking over my shoulder and waiting for the other shoe to drop.