Hard time staying grounded, Divorce After 47 years ~

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello Group:

I'm very new at this.  But, I very much need some support.  I was married for 47 years to a man with BPD.  We have been separated for the past 3 years and divorced for 4 months.  I met him in high school.

I go to counseling just to have listening ears.  Some days I do fantastic, others not so good.  I'm finding it hard to moderate medication use and wine.  I've never had a problem and don't want to develop a substance use problem, so I'm reaching out to the group for wisdom and support.

He lives 3 hours from me in the same state.  He refuses to talk to me or text saying, "I didn't want to live with him, he doesn't want to talk to  me".   My only attempt to communicate with him is over property issues and carrying out the judgment decree.  A couple times, I had shared info about one of our two married daughters with him.

I've been educating my self about BPD.  Wanna hear something funny?  I spent 26 years of my work career as a state licensed master level clinical social worker. I was a mental health counselor.  I think, my desire to "help" him was why we stayed together for so long.  I'm just now beginning to understand how messed up it has left me.

Anyway, thank you for listening. I look forward to learning how the group functions.

TBirdy

[TBirdy]

Hello Group:

I'm very new at this.  But, I very much need some support.  I was married for 47 years to a man with BPD.  We have been separated for the past 3 years and divorced for 4 months.  I met him in high school.

I go to counseling just to have listening ears.  Some days I do fantastic, others not so good.  I'm finding it hard to moderate medication use and wine.  I've never had a problem and don't want to develop a substance use problem, so I'm reaching out to the group for wisdom and support.

He lives 3 hours from me in the same state.  He refuses to talk to me or text saying, "I didn't want to live with him, he doesn't want to talk to  me".   My only attempt to communicate with him is over property issues and carrying out the judgment decree.  A couple times, I had shared info about one of our two married daughters with him.

I've been educating my self about BPD.  Wanna hear something funny?  I spent 26 years of my work career as a state licensed master level clinical social worker. I was a mental health counselor.  I think, my desire to "help" him was why we stayed together for so long.  I'm just now beginning to understand how messed up it has left me.

Anyway, thank you for listening. I look forward to learning how the group functions.

TBirdy

[Turkish]

Hello TBirdy,



Almost 5 decades of marriage was quite a life. Maube you're onto something regarding your desire to help him being part of why you stayed. It sounds like you knew something wasn't right a long time ago.

Are your legal issues dire pressing? Its too bad that he won't communicate. This might force you to communicate through lawyers if necessary.

For legal issues specifically, and how to best deal with a high conflict (or non-answering ex spouse), post to the legal board. Senior members there can help guide you.

Leaving Board: Family law, divorce and custody

What kind of person is he? It sounds like he may have cut himself off from your daughters as well, right?

Self-medicating in order to feel differently is understandable, and you sound concerned about it. Is it the lonliness after 47 years of probably feeling alone while in your marriage anyway?

Turkish

[TBirdy]

Turkish... .hope I'm replying in the right area.  Thank you, Turkish, you are right on.  I guess, I knew within a few months of our marriage that he had a side to him I never saw.  It got worse as he got older, but he was very manipulative and always 'charmed' me into staying with him.  What a blind fool I was.  I wish I would have known he had BPD while married.  I could have educated myself better and protected our 2 daughters from his rages better.  You're so right.  He has a poor relationship with our youngest daughter. He refuses to apologize to anyone for anything and wants our youngest daughter to grovel and tell him 'he's right' about ,  well, about everything.  She,... we, all groveled our whole life around him, but true to the mental illness it was never enough.  He blames, and blames and blames and acts like the emotionally immature person the disease has made him into, however, he also is very mean and manipulative person hiding behind "Christian faith".  Our divorce was final March of this year.  That's when he told me, since I didn't want to live with him, he didn't want to talk to me... .real mature, huh.

I was never allowed to have a dog.  I have a dog now and when the dog barks, its like hot water rushing through me... .all flashes back to the drama I would have been subject to.  I'm working with a psychologist to desensitize the triggers which are still so strong. 

You're right... .it was very lonely being married to him.  The whole marriage revolved around him and his poor me, aches and pains and raging. 

He has basically cut himself off from all his friends and colleagues we knew in common.  He told me (when he still spoke to me) that I had humiliated him.  No insight at ALL how he humiliated his family.  Yes, Turkish, I feel very lonely at times, but the loneliness is waay more tolerable than living with him.  I'm just wondering what experiences others have had married to a BPD individual and how they kept grounded and not flipping back to past feelings and how long it took to stop letting the past come forward in the present.  Thanks for your reply.  Good to hear from you.

TBirdy

[Turkish]

Hi TBirdy,

I moved this thread over to the Leaving Board. We have some members here who have also come out of long marriages, and hopefully you will find some support from senior members.

I'm glad you got a pup for companionship (my Ex hated animals because they were dirty), though I'm sorry that you are triggered by the memories of his attitude.

Its sad when people hide behind faith (or I would say religiosity) while denying how they violate the values they seem to espouse on the surface. It's even more sad when it's supported by the church, which happens, to the shame of those in leadership who enable it. We had a Christian thread on the Staying Board a while back discussing abuse in this context.

All in all, I'm glad that you are getting guidance from a professional. An outside perspective can be invaluable.

T

[HappyNihilist]

  Hello there, TBirdy, and welcome to the family! I'm glad you found us. You'll find many people here who understand. It helps to talk.

I'm sorry you've been through the wringer with your ex-husband.   47 years is a long time to be dealing with a manipulative, emotionally immature spouse. It's completely understandable that you would be having trouble staying grounded after the end of a long marriage to a person with BPD.

I'm glad you have a good therapist to listen and offer perspective. I've personally found my therapist to be invaluable in helping me rediscover myself.

I feel very lonely at times, but the loneliness is waay more tolerable than living with him.

This is an important insight. Feeling lonely after the end of a long relationship is perfectly natural and understandable. It's important to remember that loneliness does not equal being alone. Those feelings of loneliness will pass with time, but you are certainly not alone. You have your daughters, friends, colleagues, psychologist, and new puppy - having a good support system is so very helpful. Don't be afraid to lean on them during this time.

It takes time to heal. Let yourself feel your feelings, and above all, take care of You.  

[Panda39]

Hi TBirdy,

I wanted to point out the information box with several different links to the right --------------------------------->

There is a lot of good information over there but you might want to check out "Lesson 3. Tools" there is a lot of good reading there that you might find helpful. Just click on the link 

I'm glad you've found us you are not alone 

Panda39

[Tyrwhitt1]

Hi TBirdy,

It takes courage to make such a decision after decades of living a chaotic life. The mind can do weird things after this sort of a break, and sharing some of the stressful moments with whomever you relate to best can help flush out deep seated emotions.

I'm just out of 22 yrs together, 20 yrs married and I felt for most of the year's that my exBPDh brought chaos but it was my chaos. I'm only divorced for 3 months but already feel able to accept that it couldn't have ended any other way, it was time to be free and set him free. I've found it hard to let go of feeling responsible for him, trying to fix things, but actually the realisation that what I create now is of my own choosing is moving me forward. We know we have choices, but reinforcement is not a bad thing.

I've chosen to let him go with no bad feeling.  I look to friends to listen whilst I work through various experiences, I share different things with different people. I allow myself to reminisce, to miss the better times, to see that the person I became was as a result of life I've lead, and I have learnt a lot.

A dog will be great for you. I miss my dog immensely as he went with my ex. Dogs heal, they love you unconditionally, make you laugh, bring people to you. Enjoy your dog, enjoy your family and friends, allow yourself to feel sad, angry, whatever you feel and use that to move you forward. Write down your life story if it helps, but trust in your decision and take small steps. One day at a time ... .

[TBirdy]

Turkish, Tyrwhitti, Panda39, HappyNihilist... .Thank you for your feedback.  It's amazing how much better I feel after reading your comments.  Lately, I've been getting closer to my family and re-establishing ties broken by the drama and chaos of the past years of being married to my ex.  We have been divorced since March of this year.  I hear reports that he has begun reaching out to some family members and some friends and their comments are that he is 'very congenial and pleasant to be around' and he states he doesn't know where life will take him as he feels adrift.  That 2 person in one characteristic of his mental illness is hard to deal with even as we are divorced and have no contact. He will not speak to me even over family matters.

I hear that he is being "congenial" and "nice" and I remember the idealization phase of our life together and yearn for those days.  I can't seem to break the hold those days have on me... .because, when he was "congenial and nice", you couldn't find a more wonderful, caring person and I miss that.  My initial reaction on hearing this from others is to feel intense sadness, regret and pain that he is no longer in my life.  I cannot think of anything more sad (though, I know, there are many situations} than to know this mental illness robs him, me and his family and friends of a potentially good life.  When I am reminded of the splitting that goes on and the 'all evil' phase... .I know why I divorced him.  It tore our family apart, was stealing my sanity, and the chaos and drama was wearing me down physically.

What do you tell friends/family when they ask, "Why did you divorce him?"?  I don't know what to say.  Anyone who knew him, never saw what I and our family saw.  To say... ."I divorced him because he had a mental illness he refused to accept or seek treatment", sounds petty to me, like I abandoned him because he was ill.

I'm struggling with my emotions right now and trying to adjust to the reality that I still love him, but I will never have a relationship good or bad with him ever again.  After 47 years of marriage and dating him all through high school, it's almost more than I can deal with at times.  The other stumbling block I'm facing in counseling is, did he ever really LOVE me?  Was he even capable of 'love' or was our life together built on just 'needing me as long as I did what he told me to do'?  My therapist told me my ex refuses to communicate with me because there is nothing he can get me to do for him anymore.  I feel very mixed up right now.  I feel very needy which is not my personality.  I'm more of a comforter, but I don't have the strength these days to reach out to come along side others.  I hope this turns around soon.  Has anyone else experienced these feelings?  Thanks.

[joeramabeme]

TBirdy, I wanted to join everyone else and reach out and say welcome to the family.  Sorry to hear about what you are going through, it must be extraordinarily difficult especially given how long you have been together.

I read through this entire thread and wanted to comment on something you wrote; The other stumbling block I'm facing in counseling is, did he ever really LOVE me?

Many of us get to a point where we ask this very question as our whole sense of what is up and what is down gets flipped over and makes us wonder if anything we saw was accurate or true.  I still struggle with this same question (10 years married).  In the end, I seem to come back to the same answer, yes, she loved me - very much so.  It was not whether the feelings were real for her - rather - how she was able to process (or not process) them. 

My understanding is that the disorder creates so much emotional intensity that the pwBPD traits cannot hold an observation about their own behaviors or emotions.  They are simply trying to avoid the intensity of their internal pain.  As I have read in Marsha Linehans work it is like experiencing "a 3rd degree emotional sunburn all the time".  If I had that kind of pain I would not question what I was doing to avoid it, nor have any perspective on my actions; good or bad.  That said, I think the feelings for my pwBPD traits were very genuine but her ability to hold them internally and express them externally were very confusing and chaotic.

Having some understanding of all this can help going through the grieving process but cannot replace the time required to just be with what is.  So glad you posted here, it must have been doubly-difficult given that you are in the social work profession.  No matter, even doctors need to see someone else to get the treatment they need.

Keep posting.

Joe

[Panda39]

What do you tell friends/family when they ask, "Why did you divorce him?"?  I don't know what to say.  Anyone who knew him, never saw what I and our family saw.  To say... ."I divorced him because he had a mental illness he refused to accept or seek treatment", sounds petty to me, like I abandoned him because he was ill.

What to tell people about the divorce?  Always tricky (BPD spouse or nonBPD spouse) and really up to you and what you are comfortable with.  Before I go on I should preface this with I'm on these boards because my SO (significant other) had a BPDwife and I was not married to a BPD husband.

I was however, in a 20 year co-dependent marriage with an alcoholic and I like you, finally had enough I couldn't live my life the way it was anymore and I told him I would be filing for divorce.

My closest friends and family I told the truth... .the alcoholism I hid from everyone for 20 years was just part of it, feeling like I was the single mom of 2 children (my son and my husband), the distrust I felt for my husband, 2 DUI's and all the consequences of them, arguing all the time etc. It was a huge relief to be able to talk about it, I had stuffed and hid everything for 20 years. I would encourage you to try to talk about what went on with someone you trust.  I found I had several friends really step up, listen and support me.

In the case of BPD and mental illness it's probably tougher to talk about, there is some stigma attached to mental illness and a lack of understanding, particularly when things look great on the outside but at home things are falling apart.

I would just tell everyone else that things just weren't working between us and the break up was a good thing for everyone.  I didn't open it up for discussion.

To say... ."I divorced him because he had a mental illness he refused to accept or seek treatment", sounds petty to me, like I abandoned him because he was ill.

I don't think this is petty at all I think this is the beginning of the truth, but the truth is more than this, the truth is what you experienced in your marriage everyday for 47 years.  And after a 47 year marriage I'd challenge anyone that suggested I abandoned my marriage!

Panda39

[TBirdy]

Panda39 and joeramabeme--

Words fail to express the help your comments have given me.  The psychologist I see is good, but you folks 'know' what it's really like in the trenches.  What an unbelievable blessing to have found this website and board.  Thank you, thank you, thank you for your support and kind words.  Just THANK YOU!  

[Pretty Woman]

Welcome, Tbirdy!

47 years... .wow. I cannot fathom what you've been through... .I thought four years was unbearable.


It is very interesting that you mentioned you were in the mental health field and were trying to help him. My ex's ex was a psychologist. This is proof this disorder gets the best... .of even the best people who have experience with this disorder. It truly is a sad disorder.

We are here to listen, support, advise you any way we can. It truly helps to post your thoughts here rather than reach out to the BPD. As you well know that only ends in insults and blaming (toward you).

Again, welcome and good luck on your new journey.

I too went the route of wine and found that getting out of control. Try to replace that with re-connecting as you are now doing (with friends and family). You will find a lot of these people really missed you and you will find REAL love in them. That is one thing I am so grateful for. The people I was isolated from welcomed me back with open arms. They expressed their hurt at my dissapearance but we COMMUNICATED like grown adults and reconciled. You will see having had been in a toxic relationship for 47 years how wonderful it is to reconnect with people on the same wavelength.

Re-connect and stick to "wine spritzers" for awhile  

It DOES get better. We are glad to have you here.

PW

(Pretty Woman)

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Tbirdy, Welcome!  I admire your courage to make a change after a long-term marriage to a pwBPD.  I was married to a pwBPD for 16 years and that was too long for me, so I can only imagine the stress you lived under for so many years.  Yet you are here, which is amazing.  In general, I think we Nons in a BPD r/s tend to neglect our own needs and, instead, exhaust our resources trying to manage a turbulent situation.  For this reason, I suggest, as a first step, that you focus on yourself and try to figure out what is right for you.  Don't beat yourself up!  Try to be kind and caring to yourself.

LuckyJim

[TBirdy]

Still not sure how to reply to individuals on this sight.

LUCKY JIM - Thanks SO much for your encouraging words.  Right now it feels like I am totally and completely drained emotionally and physically.  Family and friends are welcoming me back with loving arms like I have been lost on an island somewhere.  I feel very lost.  Thank you for sharing your own experiences.  Cannot find words to say how much I appreciate your comments, care, suggestions, sharing, etc.  THANK YOU!  

[Lucky Jim]

Right now it feels like I am totally and completely drained emotionally and physically.  Family and friends are welcoming me back with loving arms like I have been lost on an island somewhere. 

Hey TBird, You're welcome.  Of course you feel wiped out, which is to be expected.  In a sense, you have been marooned for a long time on BPD Island.  Thankfully you've made it to another shore.  Try to focus on just being your true and authentic self, I suggest, which may take time.

LJ

[TBirdy]

LuckyJim,

Thanks. Good advice.  That's a job all by itself.

Have a great day.

TBirdy

[TBirdy]

What amazing self-learning takes place when you allow it.  After 47 years of marriage to a man with BPD and now 2 years divorced, I am beginning to see I have worth and value without taking care of someone else.  I never realized how damaging my marriage was until I got distance from it.  I feel God has pulled me from a black hole of destruction. God bless those who still struggle to understand why they feel crazy all the time.  The biggest thing I've had to overcome is questions from well-meaning family and friends: 'why'd you stay so long?'  My all time favorite is: "I would never stay as long as you did".  No one understands a BPD relationship goes through seasons as it develops.  The seductive stage, the clinging stage, the hater stage... .well, at the hater stage i couldn't stand it anymore.  After 47 years of faithful marriage I knew if I did not leave, I would I would fall into that black abyss with him.  I feel sorry for him that he cannot break free, that he has been dealt such a hand in life. i pray for him, but I MUST move forward in order to survive and there was no way that could happen being married to him.  I am now 2 years divorced.  Have a wonderful relationship with one of our daughters, but the other sadly shows many BPD traits, lives near her dad and sides with him.  It's painful to be distanced from your child, but i have done all I can do to create hospitality.  Thank God, I now have a life of hope and future that doesn't  make me feel constantly in chaos. 

[TBirdy]

I want to take this moment to sincerely thank each one of you dear friends who replied to my posts.  Thank you so very, very much for your support.  It has helped more than words can say.  God bless each one of you. 

[Panda39]

Hi TBirdy 

Glad you popped in to give us an update.  It really is a journey isn't it. 

The "why did you stay so long" question is such a complicated one. We get locked into a dysfunctional dance. It's the other person's dysfunction, your own dysfunction, it's love, it's good intentions, it's commitment to something/someone, it can be co-dependence, it can be fear, it can be our own self-esteem, it can be we don't recognize the dysfunction, it can be "for the children", it can be financial, it can be your religious beliefs, it can be stubbornness... .but in reality behind all of that we stay because we choose to.  When I left my marriage one of the most enlightening things for me was to realize that I trapped myself... .that I had the power to leave at anytime I just didn't see it.

I'm so glad to hear things are going well.  I can relate to receiving support from the other people in my life during and since my divorce all we have to do is let them in!   

Take Care,
Panda39

[Lucky Jim]

Hey TBirdy, Glad to hear the update and I can relate, having been divorced from my BPDxW for four years.  I don't miss the drama.  I'm so happy to hear that you have regained hope for the future.  I feel the same way!

LuckyJim

[joeramabeme]

Tbirdy

Thanks for coming back and updating us and letting us know you are doing better. 

I think the folks that ask "why did you stay so long" are well intentioned but the question itself has little to with BPD or with codependence and such. 

You are a faithful person and followed the path that you felt was right for you at the time; just as you are doing now.  I was married for 1/4 of the time yours lasted and I do not regret a day of having stayed married. 

There is an inherent temptation to historically explain away decisions that retrospectively feel bad as being wrong or problematic.  While unwanted behaviors and patterns indicate areas that could use our attention, there is never a need to explain to others or ourselves why we followed what was right for us during the time that it was.

Best wishes, JRB