Finding balance (giving vs taking; how much to concentrate on BPD)

[Joaquin]

1. So I’ve stepped back from this site for a while because while all the conscious focus on BPD was giving me a lot of control, it was making life feel dry and clinical. But I think it’s been too long because I’ve become more reactive again, finding myself unprepared when things flare up and seeing the flare rather than what’s behind it. I’m falling into JADE again. So I’m gonna go back to the books and push it back to the front of my mind. Have others struggled with this balancing act?

2. Giving vs taking. I’m very much a giver and my uBPDw is very much a taker. Our child was born 2.5yrs ago and my wife was injured shortly after the birth, so I did the full time baby care and house care while working 2 jobs and taking care of my wife as well. Being a giver, I can take that on myself, but what sets me over the edge is when my wife still just focuses on what she wants even when things are that extreme and can still throw attitude at me and complain about how she’s deprived. It’s something I’ve always struggled with with her, her ability to receive charity (even from her siblings) and give attitude or complaint back. Gratitude is important for me, so I have a hard time watching that.

Anyway, the strain left me with some injuries and we’ve since picked up some child care to lessen my load, but I still do all my responsibilities and as much of hers as I can. She does more now than she used to but still nothing close to a full share. We just unexpectedly lost our nanny. I’m pretty maxed out and tryna recover some of the health I’ve lost over the last few years. My wife happened to plan a major juice fast for now and after the nanny left it’s horrible timing. I’ve desperately needed her to step up and take more of her responsibilities here, but now I’m watching her give all this labor to the juicer that I haven’t seen her give us. I broke myself down doing dishes and preparing my wife’s raw food for hours a day, and now I’m watching her prepare her own produce and wash her juicer. Anyway, I swallowed it as much as I could to hopefully let her finish the month long juice fast, but then yesterday she started pushing me to do more around the house. I bit my tongue and told her I’m maxed out. She kept pushing and I said I can do some more dishes and laundry here and there if/when I can, but she said that means nothing to her and started on about how she doesn’t know what kind of partner she has who won’t support and help her. This really crossed the line for me and as I mentioned above I’m more reactive now, so we had a huge fight. She went into her usual defenses of total blame, no ownership, seeing herself as the victim of the whole argument and expecting a one sided apology, etc.

 I’m feeling my own failure of being reactive, but I know how to fix that. What I fear is how supremely entitled she is and how baked into our reality it’s become to just dump everything on me even when she sees me breaking down. Have others struggled with this?

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[Joaquin]

Using this as a journal to jot down some thoughts before I forget them. I’m trying to articulate to myself the pattern and how I can communicate it to my uBPDw because I know this will always repeat.

“There’s a pattern I observed very early on, long before your medical issues, where when you start doing some task like cleaning you quickly feel wronged by it, and the solution quickly becomes turning to me to see how much I’m helping or sharing your burden. Idk why this happens for you except what you’ve told me about seeing your stepmom work so hard in the home and not wanting to become her. I learned that when this feeling occurs for you, the context of how much I’m already doing doesn’t factor in at all, even at the worst extremes when I was literally doing everything; you can still fixate on the thing you want and feel angry or wronged that I’m not helping you. So I learned early on that I would never survive this relationship just doing my fair share; I’d hafta do 75% minimum just to get by and still the pattern continues, even when I do 100%. This left me hypervigilant and broke me physically and emotionally. I’ve learned trying to remind you of the context of how much I’m doing doesn’t work at times like this.

My fear is that when things are more balanced and you are doing more of your share, this will happen a lot more intensely and frequently. You’ll feel wronged by the tasks you’re doing, even if it’s a very charitable division of labor, and you’ll direct that at me and see me as unsupportive if I tell you I’m maxed out. All I know is that I have to set a limit so I don’t keep getting taken advantage of at the expense of my health, but I don’t know exactly how to set that limit in a way that you’ll validate and respect.”

[waverider]

Using this as a journal to jot down some thoughts before I forget them. I’m trying to articulate to myself the pattern and how I can communicate it to my uBPDw because I know this will always repeat.

“There’s a pattern I observed very early on, long before your medical issues, where when you start doing some task like cleaning you quickly feel wronged by it, and the solution quickly becomes turning to me to see how much I’m helping or sharing your burden. Idk why this happens for you except what you’ve told me about seeing your stepmom work so hard in the home and not wanting to become her. I learned that when this feeling occurs for you, the context of how much I’m already doing doesn’t factor in at all, even at the worst extremes when I was literally doing everything; you can still fixate on the thing you want and feel angry or wronged that I’m not helping you. So I learned early on that I would never survive this relationship just doing my fair share; I’d hafta do 75% minimum just to get by and still the pattern continues, even when I do 100%. This left me hypervigilant and broke me physically and emotionally. I’ve learned trying to remind you of the context of how much I’m doing doesn’t work at times like this.

My fear is that when things are more balanced and you are doing more of your share, this will happen a lot more intensely and frequently. You’ll feel wronged by the tasks you’re doing, even if it’s a very charitable division of labor, and you’ll direct that at me and see me as unsupportive if I tell you I’m maxed out. All I know is that I have to set a limit so I don’t keep getting taken advantage of at the expense of my health, but I don’t know exactly how to set that limit in a way that you’ll validate and respect.”

Journaling is fine but dont be tempted to give her a letter laying all this out, she will only see the criticism in it, and it will just escalate. Being written your "abusive claims" will be longer lingering "evidence" that will be continually distorted and thrown back at you.

Unfortunately it is a hard balance, you can study it until you are blue in the face, it can take over your life in the process. Just because you understand it does not mean you can fix it, or make it go away, it just swallows a bigger chunk of your life. In fact more knowledge just shines light on more facets that you never new existed, and making you more cynical in the process. An example of this is initially we think of BPD as on off episodes, this is not the case, that is just in your face toxic and not so toxic. The same BPD thought processing is going on all the time. The entitlement is constant it is just not always as visible on the surface. A bit of naivety lets you relax in the "not in your face moments", knowledge makes you not trust this either, it is harder to see the good.

[Joaquin]

Journaling is fine but dont be tempted to give her a letter laying all this out, she will only see the criticism in it, and it will just escalate. Being written your "abusive claims" will be longer lingering "evidence" that will be continually distorted and thrown back at you.

Unfortunately it is a hard balance, you can study it until you are blue in the face, it can take over your life in the process. Just because you understand it does not mean you can fix it, or make it go away, it just swallows a bigger chunk of your life. In fact more knowledge just shines light on more facets that you never new existed, and making you more cynical in the process. An example of this is initially we think of BPD as on off episodes, this is not the case, that is just in your face toxic and not so toxic. The same BPD thought processing is going on all the time. The entitlement is constant it is just not always as visible on the surface. A bit of naivety lets you relax in the "not in your face moments", knowledge makes you not trust this either, it is harder to see the good.

Agreed — I wouldn’t give this in writing. It’s just to organize my thoughts. I think the way you describe the catch-22 of knowledge is really insightful and resonates with me. When I’m studied up and thinking about how to navigate the BPD it does work because I’m nonreactive and able to work around her defenses, but as you say it also makes me more cynical and makes it harder to relax and enjoy the relationship. May I ask: how do you deal with this difficult balancing act?

[waverider]

May I ask: how do you deal with this difficult balancing act?

Filling your life with "me" things, have lots of places to go/be/do when things start to "feel off". Establish this as normal so its not unusual and it avoids letting things get to the big blow up which is even harder mentally and takes longer to bring back down. If you stay there and absorb the hits while not reacting, each one of them will create a tiny fracture in your armour, your fuse will shorten until eventually you snap. Don't need to tell you what that looks like, we have all been there.

At the end of the day all the "tools" are just lubricant to a broken machine. Helps it function but ultimately wont fix it. You are trying to minimize escalation and hopefully avoid you being dragged down drama rabbit holes which lead nowhere. They are useful skills to have to help you navigate life with your interactions with everyone, not just your pwBPD.

Validation is good but keep in mind you are dealing with a validation junkie and its no different to offering a drink to an alcoholic to cure the shakes, often its just kicking the can down the road and setting up unrealistic expectations. Much better to be wary of unnecessary invalidations, and this is a self improvement skill that is useful to us as a behavioural trait. Improving our own life skills is rewarding as it is bettering us, not just pandering to someone else, and so is more satisfying and doesn't lead to the same resentment

Acknowledge that all the dramas are just symptoms, and trying to address them wont ultimately fix the underlying process that drives them, so you cant expend all your life applying band aids, instead of attending to your own needs. Dont allow yourself to always be 2nd consideration, otherwise you will loose who you are.

Sometimes you just have to just let the cards fall the way they fall, not your circus, not your monkeys. The need to vent is a way for a pwBPD to cope with their demons, and they will find a way/reason/target. They need to be victim and every victim needs a persecutor. It just is what it is, and its not going away (unless you are very lucky)

[Joaquin]

Filling your life with "me" things, have lots of places to go/be/do when things start to "feel off". Establish this as normal so its not unusual and it avoids letting things get to the big blow up which is even harder mentally and takes longer to bring back down. If you stay there and absorb the hits while not reacting, each one of them will create a tiny fracture in your armour, your fuse will shorten until eventually you snap. Don't need to tell you what that looks like, we have all been there.

At the end of the day all the "tools" are just lubricant to a broken machine. Helps it function but ultimately wont fix it. You are trying to minimize escalation and hopefully avoid you being dragged down drama rabbit holes which lead nowhere. They are useful skills to have to help you navigate life with your interactions with everyone, not just your pwBPD.

Validation is good but keep in mind you are dealing with a validation junkie and its no different to offering a drink to an alcoholic to cure the shakes, often its just kicking the can down the road and setting up unrealistic expectations. Much better to be wary of unnecessary invalidations, and this is a self improvement skill that is useful to us as a behavioural trait. Improving our own life skills is rewarding as it is bettering us, not just pandering to someone else, and so is more satisfying and doesn't lead to the same resentment

Acknowledge that all the dramas are just symptoms, and trying to address them wont ultimately fix the underlying process that drives them, so you cant expend all your life applying band aids, instead of attending to your own needs. Dont allow yourself to always be 2nd consideration, otherwise you will loose who you are.

Sometimes you just have to just let the cards fall the way they fall, not your circus, not your monkeys. The need to vent is a way for a pwBPD to cope with their demons, and they will find a way/reason/target. They need to be victim and every victim needs a persecutor. It just is what it is, and its not going away (unless you are very lucky)

All of this is extremely insightful and well put. Thank you. Are you a counselor? You seem like a an experienced BPD expert

[waverider]

All of this is extremely insightful and well put. Thank you. Are you a counselor? You seem like a an experienced BPD expert

Nope, just spent too long banging my head against this nonsense..

I havent "fixed" my wife's behaviours, but I have got my life back. The bad is still really bad, but the good is "my" good created and owned by me, not just a respite between my wife's bad.

Just as a side thought, most counsellors finish work, go home to a "normal" home and get a "normal" nights sleep, so how much of this do they really get? You have to live it know it.

[Joaquin]

Nope, just spent too long banging my head against this nonsense..

I havent "fixed" my wife's behaviours, but I have got my life back. The bad is still really bad, but the good is "my" good created and owned by me, not just a respite between my wife's bad.

Just as a side thought, most counsellors finish work, go home to a "normal" home and get a "normal" nights sleep, so how much of this do they really get? You have to live it know it.

Does your wife see your limits as evidence you’re an unkind, uncaring partner? Mine does. She’s building more resentment towards me over time bc she sees me as fundamentally responsible for her difficult emotions and causing her pain. Advice?

[waverider]

Does your wife see your limits as evidence you’re an unkind, uncaring partner? Mine does. She’s building more resentment towards me over time bc she sees me as fundamentally responsible for her difficult emotions and causing her pain. Advice?

As soon you are not meeting their needs for validating their views/impulses/obsessions you are unkind, uncaring or even abusive, especially if you flat out say no/stop.

If you are meeting their needs you are the perfect Angel.

No real way around this. If you want to sell your soul just to stay in the good books, you will sell your soul, and still get slapped in the bad books at times. So not worth selling it.

pwBPD unload their issues by making others responsible, this need is a process and it wont go away by slapping band aids on individual issues. They are just conduits to express this need. As long as this need persists the behaviour continues. Each issue is not about that issue it is about the need for the process. It will find an avenue to express itself no matter how "angelic" you are.

Make sure that low opinion of you is just her opinion and not your opinion.

[Joaquin]

As soon you are not meeting their needs for validating their views/impulses/obsessions you are unkind, uncaring or even abusive, especially if you flat out say no/stop.

If you are meeting their needs you are the perfect Angel.

No real way around this. If you want to sell your soul just to stay in the good books, you will sell your soul, and still get slapped in the bad books at times. So not worth selling it.

pwBPD unload their issues by making others responsible, this need is a process and it wont go away by slapping band aids on individual issues. They are just conduits to express this need. As long as this need persists the behaviour continues. Each issue is not about that issue it is about the need for the process. It will find an avenue to express itself no matter how "angelic" you are.

Make sure that low opinion of you is just her opinion and not your opinion.

You said it. I did internalize that opinion for a long time before I knew about her uBPD. Yesterday she had a lot of emotional dysregulation and made it about me generally not talking to her nicely. I stayed calm and caring but held my boundary that I felt that was not an accurate reflection of what was happening and that I couldn’t take ownership of her emotions for her. We spent the rest of the day disconnected (I checked in to see how she was) and at night things escalated in a way they never have before.

She was confidently convinced that this is all a function of me being a bad partner, not treating her well, and not meeting her needs. We talked a little about going back to couple’s therapy but she insisted that I would have to do individual therapy as well (ie this is all a result of my issues and I need to change to fix it). I’m still feeling raw from being sucked into the twilight zone where she is the victim and I’m the persecutor.

She then said several  times that we are not emotionally compatible (something I’ve felt for a long time but never said it bc there’s no turning back after that — she cuts deep when she’s has hurt feelings) and talked about us spending a couple weeks apart or just being roommates. My boundary of not owning her emotions is one she cannot accept and views as me being a terrible partner. She then had a huge crying fit and I tried to console her and be kind but didn’t try to walk her statements back for her.

These are things that can’t be unsaid. I tried as hard as I could to hold things together for the sake of our little daughter, but it’s now spiraling beyond my control. I’m feeling run through, used up, spun around, wrongly blamed, and alone. I feel like I have no footing. Although I know being alone would be much healthier for me, I’m afraid of the financial implications (I work 2 jobs to keep us afloat and she doesn’t work bc of health reasons, also I pay for a lot of home and child care bc of her health issues) and even more afraid of what this might mean for our daughter. I suspect she might try to patch things up today but I don’t know if I can pretend like this didn’t just happen. I’m rambling but any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you for all your insights my friend.

[waverider]

The logistics of breaking apart is often what keeps us there. I am guilty of this. There is never an easy exit path. The older you are, the harder it is. Sorry I don't have any really good advice on that aspect as I am not doing such a great job myself.

Ultimately the only other out if all that is too hard becomes a case of who lives longest wins, and who knows how long that is.

Staying means carving your own life and strength within a dysfunctional environment, which can get harder with time and age.

[Notwendy]

One concept that helped me to understand the dynamics in the family is the Karpman triangle- where my BPD mother (and I think pwBPD in general) see things from a victim perspective. I think this is why there's a skewed sense of fairness- for a victim, the situation is unfair. It wouldn't be a victim if it was fair.

For my BPD mother, there's a sense of entitlement and her perspective is that things are unfair to her, therefore- she's entitled. The result is that there doesn't seem to be a sense of reciprocity. She also has an emotional need to have people do things for her. If there's an expectation for her to do something, she's indignant.

On one hand, it appears you are over functioning for your wife but when there's a child involved - if one parent isn't doing their part of the parenting, then the child is the one who is affected by that. With the Karpman triangle dynamics, most adults are not really victims but a child has no choice and they depend entirely on their parents- they are potential victims. It feels unfair to you to over-function but it's actually for your child's benefit. Still, as WW said, it's important to carve some time for yourself. This may require hiring sitters if your wife can't be relied on. We had sitters.

It was my father who did the majority of the parenting. While I understand this was a lot for him, the result is that I bonded more to him as a parent. It may feel like a chore but the hands on parenting is quality time with your child but you also need to find ways to take care of yourself too.

[Joaquin]

For my BPD mother, there's a sense of entitlement and her perspective is that things are unfair to her, therefore- she's entitled. The result is that there doesn't seem to be a sense of reciprocity. She also has an emotional need to have people do things for her. If there's an expectation for her to do something, she's indignant.

This really speaks to my situation. My wife is extremely entitled to the point where she feels justified expression annoyance at ppl going to extreme lengths to help her out of pure charity while they’re helping. Seeing this has been a trigger for me bc gratitude is an important value for me; if someone does something out of kindness for me I remember it forever and reciprocate. She definitely sees herself as a victim and me as persecutor or rescuer.

We reconciled last night after a validating, safe exchange empathy. I know the challenge for me will continue to be that when she’s activated or dysregulated, she’ll paint me as persecutor again and when that’s happening the only thing she’ll accept from me is 100% validation and apology, and if I try to set a limit it will escalate the matter horribly. I intend to improve my SET and validation skills but how things go is only so much under my control. I’m afraid I’ll build small resentments over the amount of emotional labor I have to do to cater to her, which makes it really hard for me to feel enough space within myself to accommodate her dysfunction while trying to hold our lives together and care for our daughter.