Extreme violence - but my past mistakes is always greater

[15years]

Sorry for this in the heat of the moment rant.

I bet she could kill me and she would still blame me. She will say she's sorry but never drop the petty accusations.

I have caused her shame, no crime will ever be bigger than that.

Tonight I tried not to jade and stay calm (my only skills as I don't know what to do instead, I've tried a few things) yet she was the most violent so far. It ended with me locking myself in the bathroom where I'm still at, she will definitely hold it against me but at the moment she's at least calming down on her own and I'm having this quality time for myself.

In the end I couldn't validate her feelings so while she was attacking me I told her I'm not at all sorry for this:
Yesterday while scrolling through Netflix I asked if she wanted to watch Fyre. It came up a few days earlier too when it was mentioned in "Inventing Anna" and I proudly told her that I knew about the tv-series (seriously it wasn't that cool knowledge but it surely wasn't meant to disrespect her). She didn't respond negatively that time but yesterday she had enough of this "disrespectful behavior". Taking a second look at it I agree it's sexistic both the festival itself and the marketing by netflix, even if I haven't watched anything but the trailer. But she told me I broke the trust between us and that I continue to disrespect her again and again. A while back I finished the rest of game of thrones behind her back after she was sick of the sexism after three seasons. I wasn't a huge fan but I was interested.

"Now its time for you to be honest and stop running from your fears and not put the blame on me" she said as she typically does - She thinks I want to impress guys by being cool and not missing out on this "cool show"... there may be a very small piece of truth in that but isn't that always the case. Most often I don't have a problem building my own opinions.

I actually happened to record the violent episode and the 10-20 minutes leading up to it. Not sure if and when I'll listen to it.


I'm angry and pity myself now but it won't last long, we may even watch tv together and have some tea tonight. And tomorrow I'll tiptoe around her again. I hate this so much. Not sure if I will reply to replies on this thread so thank you in advance.

At least I didn't send a whatsapp message to any of her family members which I was tempted to do. "I have to tell you, your daughter/sister is really crazy. Don't tell her I sent you this". I was really close this time to do it, I know I would regret it later. But it will happen sooner or later.

And my past mistakes is always greater. How dare I tell her she's overreacting knowing what I have done to her. She'll always have that. She can never hit me too hard because I was worse.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[So many questions]

I would advise you to exit this relationship as soon as possible before it destroys your life. And I don’t mean that hyperbolically.

This will end worse than you can possibly imagine. One of you could end up dead or in jail. I hope you take these words very seriously. This is not just a story of love, this is your life at stake.

You’re locked in a bathroom over a Netflix show because you didn’t perfectly align with her beliefs on the show. Just read that back.

You probably feel tied to this relationship and fearful of leaving because all that might happen or all she might say or do. You are trauma bound. I was too and still am.  It doesn’t matter. Nothing is worse than what is to come if you continue to stay in this relationship.

I stayed through so much emotional, verbal, and on one occasion physical abuse. And in the end, it almost ruined my life, I still battle dark thoughts of ending it, and I came out looking like the bad guy.

Run my friend. Run and never look back.

[15years]

So many questions - thank you, right now I really would want to leave, but I know I will change my mind later so I have to do some internal change first.

She was violent today too and she hurt her foot really bad. I'm not happy at all that she hurt herself

[So many questions]

Find your support system. Tell them you are planning to exit the relationship. Tell them what had happened, force yourself. No inner work is going to change her.

Get away, do the inner work on your own without being physically abused, and if you still want to go back after you’re healed, then give it a shot. But you won’t want to.

I hope you wake up before the cops are involved. You could end up in jail. Or she could end up really hurting you.

This isn’t going to end well man.

[Rev]

Find your support system. Tell them you are planning to exit the relationship. Tell them what had happened, force yourself. No inner work is going to change her.

Get away, do the inner work on your own without being physically abused, and if you still want to go back after you’re healed, then give it a shot. But you won’t want to.

I hope you wake up before the cops are involved. You could end up in jail. Or she could end up really hurting you.

This isn’t going to end well man.

Agreed

[15years]

I have two boys 2 & 5 with her.
As soon as she's sweet or shows sadness I can't leave her. When times get tough I escape to the fantasy of leaving but that's the closest I get.


She is dead serious saying that me trying to protect myself by running away, locking myself in another room or even trying to stop her physically from hitting me is unacceptable. We made up a bit after last time and while I was holding her she calmly tried to convince me I should tell her I will never run away again. I was in a certain state of mind after this PLEASE READty day so I actually found it mildly fun to argue with her about this and she had already taken out her aggression on me so she didn't attack me.

It's so frustrating that while she's being abusive, it's me that's getting blamed for being abusive. It's very hard not to take her seriously, but actually it's like arguing with a computer, it's already decided how she will respond.

And now the international women's day is coming up, better think of something.

[So many questions]

I was unaware of the kids being involved. I’m not sure how to handle that but I wish you and your family all the best. Please be safe.

[15years]

No problem. I'm worried about them, they get very nervous when we fight.

It's always my fault that we fight, that's how she motivates her claim that I shouldn't run, since I made her angry. If I tell her I will run next time too, it's the same as justifying that I cause her pain.

Thank you So many questions for your support, I appreciate it.

[Notwendy]

15 years- she can say anything she feels-  it's your fault - but that doesn't make it true. Your issue is that you buy into this kind of thinking. Arguing, explaining, tiptoeing around her- trying to make her see that you are not at fault- is trying to change her thinking. It's not possible to change anyone's thinking.

Your kids are little now, but they see this, they will see this, and one day, when they are older she's upset with them, she will tell them it's their fault. Being children and not fully knowing who they are- they will believe her. Whatever she says and does to you, she will do to them.

And you will deny it and side with her.

How do I know this? I am not in a physically abusive relationship thankfully but I am an adult with a verbally and emotionally abusive BPD mother. She wasn't directly physically harmful- thankfully she's a very small size person and we were larger than her by our teens, but we grew up terrified of her angry times. She would wreck the house.

And she has her sweet moments too. This kind of thing is cyclic. PwBPD have difficulty managing their uncomfortable emotions. The rages serve as a release valve. Once the emotions are out, they feel better. Then they assume we feel better too. There's no discussion of what happened, we are expected to forget it and there's no accountability either.

As a teen, I knew there were issues between my parents, but she blamed me for them. Looking back, I wasn't a bad kid, I probably did some typical teen silly things but not any bad things and yet, somehow I was blamed for her issues. All kids want their parents to love them and approve of them. I did too, and thought if only I was good enough, my parents would think so too. I believed that when I left home for college, they would be happy. Of course, once I wasn't at home, I assumed they were until a younger sibling told me the behaviors continued.

I also had a lot of denial, saw the good side of her, am grateful for the good aspects of my childhood. It wasn't all bad- and that's the confusing part. My mother, your wife- too- they are not monsters but managed to pair up with enabling partners who by their enabling, play their own role in the abuse cycle.

My father is deceased now, and I wondered why he allowed my mother to treat us kids like she did. He did step in to protect us as best as he could. However, he'd also defer to her wishes and if she was angry at us, step in to defend her. The Karpman triangle is a good explanation for these dynamics. I think pwBPD take victim perspective. The payoff of being a victim is not being "at fault". Avoiding being at fault is crucial to avoid the feeling of shame. If there's any hint of something that my mother might be accountable for, she immediately goes to victim perspective. Nothing is her fault. It is always someone else's fault.

And my father- rescuer. When he steps in to "rescue" her against a common "persecutor"-the two of them feel more bonded. They are aligned together, looking outward, not at themselves or each other. I think this is what makes that bond a strong one. Defending us if we were in persecutor mode would take him out of this role.

It's interesting that your wife is so big on women's rights- with the perspective of victim. Before the women's movement the expected role was "housewife". Like many women in her era, my mother's identity was "housewife" but she didn't do housework. With the women's movement, she then declared herself "liberated" from housework which seemed to justify her not doing it to herself. She seems to have adopted the contemporary slogans and pop psychology of the time to justify her behavior.

We don't have the ability to change someone else's behavior or how they think. The change starts with you. I am not being critical of you. I loved my father and credit him for the stability and support he provided for us growing up. I know he did the best he could. But he was in this pattern with my mother. She had all the power, yet he earned the income and we all tried to be as well behaved around her as much as possible. Her feelings, needs, emotions ruled. I used to see him as the victim of her behavior- but he had choices too. As a teen, I asked him why he stayed. His reply was "for you kids" and I understand that he did protect us. But we grew up and he stayed- because he was as much a part of that pair as she was.

You are in a difficult position, but please, keep an eye out for the kids. They are little now and little kids are cute and compliant. Older ones will know there's something going on. They can get into this dynamic with their mother as well.

[15years]

Notwendy - thank you for your response. I had heard some of your story but hadn't realized your father was now deceased, I'm sorry about that.

What can I do that your father failed to do?
Can I already at this stage somehow talk to my five year-old son about his mother, without causing their relationship harm?
He is an observer of violence but participate too - if there is a blow up he often rushes to my side which angers my wife and she tells him to back of and come to her instead. He seem to understand she is difficult so it's weird not to talk to him about it. Otherwise they get along well, she is funny, not as fun as me though 

[Notwendy]

Thanks, he lived into his elder years. While what I experienced as a child was certainly difficult, what was also difficult was seeing how my BPD mother treated him, when he was elderly and frail. Yet the pattern between them was strong. I stepped in to "rescue" him from abuse. This put me right on the Karpman triangle as "persecutor". BPD mother was "victim" and my father, the "rescuer" to her, from me.

From the outside, I saw my father as the victim of my mother's behavior. I understand now that it is more complicated than that. He wasn't a victim. He had choices. If one of his was to stay to protect us as kids, I am grateful for that, but we grew up and he stayed.

He loved her, and although he didn't say much about it, he knew she was seriously mentally ill. He believed he needed to protect her. Perhaps he was right. She is severely BPD and can not fend for herself, even with household tasks.

I don't think he failed us. He did a lot and the best he could. One thing we resented as teens was that so much of the financial resources went to her and we didn't understand why. Yet we were not lacking in basic needs. He earned the money, she controlled it. There wasn't much to help me for college, or so I thought, but that made me work to become independent. I know know there was money- he was already saving for their retirement, because her needs are large. This has become a huge gift to us now that she is an elderly widow- so far, she has been able to hire home care to meet her needs.

What could he have done differently? One never knows the road not taken but I do think he enabled and perpetuated the worst of her behavior because, this was a well guarded family secret and the aim was to pretend she was normal and lift her up to others. We were the only witnesses to it and we were quickly silenced if we asked about it. Her behavior was explained as "normal" and if we had any problems with it, well-it was our fault for not being well behaved enough to not provoke her. We were terrified of her.

Some of this had the effect of gaslighting and some of our memory is blurry. Some of it came back when I saw the way she treated my father when he was older. I knew then that the memories were real. I confirmed them with other family members. She had convinced me that I was to blame for them, but seeing her verbally and emotionally abuse my father, I knew it was not just with me. If she did this in front of us, I don't even want to think about what she did when we were not there.

I don't think talking to your son about his mother is helpful and would put you in the position of triangulating. Later, a trained counselor who is skilled in this can work with your children. Children learn more by what they see than what is said to them. Your children are exposed to domestic violence. This is unacceptable in any situation and is a form of child abuse. This might even be grounds for CPS to remove them from the home, and if your wife ever does to them what she does to you, it would certainly be.

What do I wish my father did differently?- stand up for himself. He could not possibly stand up for us if he couldn't stand up for himself first. Stop enabling, stop normalizing the abuse. While this may have protected my mother from any consequences of her behavior, it also prevented her from getting the help she needed, if it was possible to help her. And I grew up believing that in order to be loved, I had to be a doormat. Our parents influence our ideas of relationships and while I didn't want to act like my mother and so gravitated towards being like my father, that also led to me having co-dependent behaviors in relationships.

I think the best gift you can give to your children is to role model emotionally healthy boundaries and to validate theirs. They will notice something isn't quite normal with their mother soon enough. If you can work on your part in the dynamics - and not allow her to mistreat you, you will role model this to your children. Abuse tends to persist in generations. Kids who grow up with abuse tend to grow up to be abusers or abused themselves. You have the chance to change this for them.

On your part though, physical abuse is a particularly dangerous category. All abuse is damaging but this could be life threatening or physically seriously harmful. I would seek professional help before intervening. She could seriously injure you or the children. Yours is not a situation where the worst case scenario is verbal abuse. While verbal abuse has the potential to escalate, she's already there- a verbal abuser may say hurtful things in a fit of anger, but physical harm is still a boundary. She has no brakes when she gets angry-she is physically violent and justifies it. She has no concept that what she's doing is harmful and seriously wrong in the moment. Even kindergartners learn to not hit when they are angry. She doesn't even have that lesson down. Please seek professional help to maintain your own safety and the kids' safety.

[Rev]

On your part though, physical abuse is a particularly dangerous category. All abuse is damaging but this could be life threatening or physically seriously harmful. I would seek professional help before intervening. She could seriously injure you or the children. Yours is not a situation where the worst case scenario is verbal abuse. While verbal abuse has the potential to escalate, she's already there- a verbal abuser may say hurtful things in a fit of anger, but physical harm is still a boundary. She has no brakes when she gets angry-she is physically violent and justifies it. She has no concept that what she's doing is harmful and seriously wrong in the moment. Even kindergartners learn to not hit when they are angry. She doesn't even have that lesson down. Please seek professional help to maintain your own safety and the kids' safety.

Hi 15 years,

I want to echo what not Wendy is saying here. I am also adding what I see as a pattern of oscillating between verbal/psychological abuse and physical abuse - something my ex partner did to me. Please do not underestimate the power this has on a person to coerce them into saying.

Not Wendy has done a really great job of bottom lining the gravity of the situation. You are a good man. Your children deserve to have you intact.

Hang in there.

We're in your corner.

Rev