Desperately need advice please D:

[ColdEthyl]

Last night, my husband went on a dysregulation for 2 hours about my son. My son is 10 with Asperger's. My husband said went he went to the bathroom last night at 10:30 that he didn't shut the door all the way and he saw my son running from my brother's room to his room, where he is supposed to be asleep at 9:30pm. I got up to ask him why he was out of bed at 10:30, and he appeared to be asleep and confused by my question, mumbled something about a drink. I went to ask my brother why he was up... .he says he was not.

My first thought was oh boy. If I go back in there and tell him he's seeing things... .it's going to be on. What I ended up doing is agreeing with parts of what he said, and not agreeing with others. He was upset because earlier that day my brother told my son to clean his room, and he was giving my brother lip about it. He does have an issue with respecting my brother. When he does it in front of me, I correct him. When my husband hears it, he doesn't do anything because "He doesn't want to be the bad guy."

Anyways, he went on a 2 hour rant about we need to step up and back my brother up more, and I agreed with that. He said he would start helping when I'm at work, I agreed and said that's a great idea. When he said he was sneaking out of my brother's room last night and that my brother confirmed it... .I just said nothing and redirected the issue that we do need to get on him more about how he treats his uncle.

To explain just a bit further, my brother is a pushover because he's paranoid schizophrenic and has a low IQ. He's sweet by nature and tries too hard to explain things to my son. My son has a high IQ, and if he thinks he can manipulate you he will. He doesn't try any of this with us, just my brother.

My husband wants to ground my son from the computer today for sneaking out of his room. Honestly... .he didn't do it. If I told him that last night when he was ranting though, he would fall back into my brother is trying to sabotage something... .that he isn't lying he know what he saw... .and then he would have gone into some sort of sexual abuse theory. He even suggested my brother told my son to sneak back to his room because my husband was in the restroom. Again... .NONE of this happened. I guarantee it.

So today I am in a pickle. I have no idea if he will still be on this subject when I get home, there is a good chance he won't be. He probably won't say anything to my son and ground him.

But if he does... .I agree a punishment is in place if he argued with his uncle about cleaning his room. I don't agree with a punishment with something he thinks happened that didn't.

What the heck do I do? Even last night when he was going off, a few times he said "I'm not making this up. I saw him do this." Almost like part of him knew it didn't happen, or he was using this event as a reason to vent about what happened earlier that day. The entire conversation last night he kept changing around events and what I said to keep trying to argue with me. I did not fall for it.

If he brings it up again today that this thing happened that didn't... .what the heck do I do or say to avoid triggering him? I really hope he just dropped it. He usually does

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[ColdEthyl]

I'll take any suggestions I'm going home in a few hours and I'm afraid the best I can expect is some sort of fighting or leaving the home tonight... .I'd much rather not D:

[ColdEthyl]

Well... .false alarm. He didn't mention it... .my son was enjoying his computer time when I got home, so he didn't ground him. The evening was fine he was quiet like he usually is after dysregulation. He was in good spirits, so I let sleeping dogs lie.

I wish I had a crystal ball that would tell me what to expect sometimes >.<

[sweetheart]

  ColdEthyl I was just racking my brains all the way through your initial post thinking oh this sounds like the sort of thing my h would do when I know he's distorting something, confabulating or lying and the root cause is usually something else. It's a tough one to deal with especially if you realise it didn't happen. Usually he just dysregulates.

I'm really glad that the coast was all clear when you got home - be prepared though for it to possibly raise it's head again, possibly.

A thought if it does rear up later on and also more time will have elapsed by then, can you sort of caution your son and lay down what a consequence might be if he does it again. I'm all for laying down a consequence at the time a behaviour occurs rather than some time after. I think it looses it's effectiveness and maybe your h would feel validated by this outcome.

[ColdEthyl]

ColdEthyl I was just racking my brains all the way through your initial post thinking oh this sounds like the sort of thing my h would do when I know he's distorting something, confabulating or lying and the root cause is usually something else. It's a tough one to deal with especially if you realise it didn't happen. Usually he just dysregulates.

I'm really glad that the coast was all clear when you got home - be prepared though for it to possibly raise it's head again, possibly.

A thought if it does rear up later on and also more time will have elapsed by then, can you sort of caution your son and lay down what a consequence might be if he does it again. I'm all for laying down a consequence at the time a behaviour occurs rather than some time after. I think it looses it's effectiveness and maybe your h would feel validated by this outcome.

The problem though is he did NOT run into his room or anything... .none of that happened! I'm hoping THAT part won't come up again. The rest of it is valid, and I did speak to my son this morning about his treatment of his uncle. We are both going to sit with my brother and speak to him about it. We have already done this before... .but it's a complicated thing. My brother isn't too bright, and he tries too hard to 'not be a bother' that he won't tell us if a child has done something not in our sight that needs to be addressed. My brother is 29, and has the mind of a 14 year old and not expected to progress. In high school, his counselors said he had a mindset 10 years young than him. We used to think ok... .well if you're 38 and think like a 28 year old, that won't be so bad it's just at 16 thinking like a 6 year old is bad. Well... it didn't work that way. His mind kind of stopped at 14-16ish. So, he's like having another teen in the house. We give him authority so he doesn't feel like a child, but the result is he will still act like one. Complicated

I know the subject will come up again, but I just do not know how to handle if he brings things up that never happened. In the past, I used to argue until I was blue in the face when he would rewrite history, but I've learned that does no good. I'm getting good at validating his feelings without agreeing to the false happenings... .but I do not know how to continue on if he brings it up again. Do I at any point try to correct him on the event? How do I even handle this in the future? What if he brings it up to my brother or son?

[sweetheart]

There's a lot of stuff going on under your roof ColdEthyl, Aspergers, BPD, PS ( my h dx with  this as well as BPD ) it sounds really hard for you having to navigate this all the time and yes complicated too.

[ColdEthyl]

There's a lot of stuff going on under your roof ColdEthyl, Aspergers, BPD, PS ( my h dx with  this as well as BPD ) it sounds really hard for you having to navigate this all the time and yes complicated too.

Yeah I got quite the mixed bag of nuts at home (just a pun, guys!) Luckily for me, I am naturally curious and adept to psychological disorders. My son is easy. He requires straight, honest, definite answers and a strict schedule. He's learning coping mechanisms for his anger outbursts (usually when he 'loses' at something like card games or video games) and learning to control voice volume. His psychiatrist believes he is going to be just fine as an adult and he will continue to learn and pick up social cues. My brother well... .he isn't going to get much further than he is now sadly. I've been raising him since he was 14. If our dad would have done what he should have for him as a child that might have been different.

I'm the oldest of 2 children and I have been on my own since I was 16, and started raising children at 18 and had my own at 20 and 24. I've been a caregiver all of my life, so obviously that's a trait that attracts BPD and lazy men rofl

[formflier]

Yeah I got quite the mixed bag of nuts at home (just a pun, guys!) 

Nice... .     Puts a smile on my face.

My advice... .if it ever comes up... .

Do active listening... .so I understand that you saw x,y,z.

If he presses to agree... .try to slow things down.  You weren't there... you need time to consider etc etc.

Try to validate any emotions he may be expressing.

The hope is that it will not come up.

If it does... hopefully you can validate emotions... .and it will go away.

If he presses for a decision... .maybe just honestly say you don't know... .it's troubling... .and let whatever happen... happen.

Agreeing to appease him seems wrong.

Telling him he is wrong... .seems wrong...

Hmmm...

[ColdEthyl]

Yeah I got quite the mixed bag of nuts at home (just a pun, guys!) 

Nice... .     Puts a smile on my face.

My advice... .if it ever comes up... .

Do active listening... .so I understand that you saw x,y,z.

If he presses to agree... .try to slow things down.  You weren't there... you need time to consider etc etc.

Try to validate any emotions he may be expressing.

The hope is that it will not come up.

If it does... hopefully you can validate emotions... .and it will go away.

If he presses for a decision... .maybe just honestly say you don't know... .it's troubling... .and let whatever happen... happen.

Agreeing to appease him seems wrong.

Telling him he is wrong... .seems wrong...

Hmmm...

*TAKES A DEEP BREATH* OK... .I can do that. Thank you so very very much for some good words to use. I have lied in the past and agreed to things just to shut down arguments. I won't do it again. Telling him is wrong will just end up in a big ol' explosion so we don't wish to go there

I'm hoping he won't bring it up. There's a good chance he won't since he said he would help me by correcting my son when he's at home and he was going to ground him and talk to him about sneaking around at night. Since he didn't do that... .bringing it up will remind him of what he said he would do and didn't. At least that's what I'm hoping for.

[Cole]

ColdEthyl,

I can relate. Our spectrum (PDD, much like aspergers) son knows how to push my BPDw's buttons. I deal a lot with extreme over reaction to little things he has done. What works for me is to remind her he has a developmental disability that makes it hard for him to always be in control. She usually realizes he is very much like her and the anger turns quickly to understanding. Don't know if that will help build a rapport between your husband and son, but it seems to work for us.

[Grey Kitty]

Hmmm... .glad this was a false alarm.

ColdEthyl, does your H invent things like this frequently?

The whole thing is kinda mysterious... .and seems like it should be one of those totally unimportant mysteries that never needs to be solved!

I'm wondering if your H did see something, and jumped at a conclusion that was at least half-wrong?

I believe you when you say that your son's story and brother's story indicate that it didn't happen the way your H says it did.

If this isn't your H's normal behavior, you don't need to plan ahead for the next time it happens.

[ColdEthyl]

Hmmm... .glad this was a false alarm.

ColdEthyl, does your H invent things like this frequently?

The whole thing is kinda mysterious... .and seems like it should be one of those totally unimportant mysteries that never needs to be solved!

I'm wondering if your H did see something, and jumped at a conclusion that was at least half-wrong?

I believe you when you say that your son's story and brother's story indicate that it didn't happen the way your H says it did.

If this isn't your H's normal behavior, you don't need to plan ahead for the next time it happens.

It's not overtly frequent, perhaps once or twice a year. What I've gathered is it will be when he's already got an idea in his head (it's usually a paranoid idea), and he "thinks" or "suspects" something. He's paranoia is usually under control but these things always happen when he has been drinking. I believe he "thought" he saw something, and weaved the story together based on his paranoia thoughts and whatever was eating him on that day.

The first 2 years we were together, he was convinced my brother was coming into our room and taking things, throwing things away on us, etc etc. (Granted, this happened after my brother has a psychotic break and was threatening to kill us. He spent several weeks in the hospital after that and they got him on meds, he's been stable since.) He's done that one other time last year, but on this night my brother was painted white and he was ranting about how great my brother is and doesn't deserve that and we need to do more for him.

The whole thing with my brother will get better once my brother gets to move out on his own. He's on a waiting list for housing, and sadly it's just going to take some time.

Sometimes when we fight, he has a tendency to rewrite what's happening, even if something happened or was said just minutes before. It's not even that he makes anything up out of thin air, but he will "rearrange" events to fit his side of the argument. That's the one thing I'm not sure how to handle. I know he does it to fit what his feelings are, and I know validating the feelings is the right move, but how to handle the made up stuff especially when it's an event that just happened?

I'm such a black/white person when it comes to certain things. I call a spade a spade. I'm a brutally honest person by nature. The whole BPD thing has really challenged me

[Cat Familiar]

What I've gathered is it will be when he's already got an idea in his head (it's usually a paranoid idea), and he "thinks" or "suspects" something. He's paranoia is usually under control but these things always happen when he has been drinking. I believe he "thought" he saw something, and weaved the story together based on his paranoia thoughts and whatever was eating him on that day.

Sometimes when we fight, he has a tendency to rewrite what's happening, even if something happened or was said just minutes before. It's not even that he makes anything up out of thin air, but he will "rearrange" events to fit his side of the argument. That's the one thing I'm not sure how to handle. I know he does it to fit what his feelings are, and I know validating the feelings is the right move, but how to handle the made up stuff especially when it's an event that just happened?

I'm such a black/white person when it comes to certain things. I call a spade a spade. I'm a brutally honest person by nature. The whole BPD thing has really challenged me

Ethyl, this must have been a really unnerving episode for you. Thankfully you were able to ride it out without having to intervene in any way, which certainly would have been a thankless task.

My husband will make things up to suit his opinion and will even tell me that I said certain things which I know I never said--most recently he said that I told him I wanted a divorce. (On what planet was that?) It truly is surreal to be confronted by some alternate version of reality, especially when he's so adamant that I have said or done something I know has not happened.

And as you know well, trying to dispute the so-called "facts" only serves to make him dig his heels in deeper.

The common thread in these incidents is alcohol. He drinks every night and can handle quite a bit without seeming impaired. But his thinking is still impaired.

This diverges from my mother, who also made stuff up out of thin air, but she never drank. She seldom did that, but when she did, it was really shocking and she was absolutely certain that her version of reality was correct.

So the other night when he started down that road, I was shocked and knowing not to try to argue with him beyond a simple denial, I said, "You're trying to gaslight me." I don't know if that got through, but he backed off and started talking about something else.

[ColdEthyl]

What I've gathered is it will be when he's already got an idea in his head (it's usually a paranoid idea), and he "thinks" or "suspects" something. He's paranoia is usually under control but these things always happen when he has been drinking. I believe he "thought" he saw something, and weaved the story together based on his paranoia thoughts and whatever was eating him on that day.

Sometimes when we fight, he has a tendency to rewrite what's happening, even if something happened or was said just minutes before. It's not even that he makes anything up out of thin air, but he will "rearrange" events to fit his side of the argument. That's the one thing I'm not sure how to handle. I know he does it to fit what his feelings are, and I know validating the feelings is the right move, but how to handle the made up stuff especially when it's an event that just happened?

I'm such a black/white person when it comes to certain things. I call a spade a spade. I'm a brutally honest person by nature. The whole BPD thing has really challenged me

Ethyl, this must have been a really unnerving episode for you. Thankfully you were able to ride it out without having to intervene in any way, which certainly would have been a thankless task.

My husband will make things up to suit his opinion and will even tell me that I said certain things which I know I never said--most recently he said that I told him I wanted a divorce. (On what planet was that?) It truly is surreal to be confronted by some alternate version of reality, especially when he's so adamant that I have said or done something I know has not happened.

And as you know well, trying to dispute the so-called "facts" only serves to make him dig his heels in deeper.

The common thread in these incidents is alcohol. He drinks every night and can handle quite a bit without seeming impaired. But his thinking is still impaired.

This diverges from my mother, who also made stuff up out of thin air, but she never drank. She seldom did that, but when she did, it was really shocking and she was absolutely certain that her version of reality was correct.

So the other night when he started down that road, I was shocked and knowing not to try to argue with him beyond a simple denial, I said, "You're trying to gaslight me." I don't know if that got through, but he backed off and started talking about something else.

*nods* yep I know this all too well. I also know my husband IS an alcoholic even if he doesn't drink every night. His father was also an alcoholic. He says it helps slow his brain down. In reality, he seems to only dysregulate when he drinks a lot. He has anxiety issues when he doesn't drink.

[Cat Familiar]

*nods* yep I know this all too well. I also know my husband IS an alcoholic even if he doesn't drink every night. His father was also an alcoholic. He says it helps slow his brain down. In reality, he seems to only dysregulate when he drinks a lot. He has anxiety issues when he doesn't drink.

Exactly! I don't get the speeded up brain thing, but it's his issue too, as well as the anxiety. Yikes!

[Grey Kitty]

It's not overtly frequent, perhaps once or twice a year. What I've gathered is it will be when he's already got an idea in his head (it's usually a paranoid idea), and he "thinks" or "suspects" something. He's paranoia is usually under control but these things always happen when he has been drinking. I believe he "thought" he saw something, and weaved the story together based on his paranoia thoughts and whatever was eating him on that day.

OK, from a practical point of view, I've got three suggestions:

1. Validate his feelings if you can. (You already got this, even if it is soo hard to do here!)

2. Don't JADE all over his 'facts' that don't check up in the real world. (You've got this too!)

3. Take a clear stand only about inappropriate actions on his part, not stories.

In this case... .Inform him in no uncertain terms that your son will not be punished for something that you do not believe he did.

To keep from JADEing, state once that your personal experience does not match his personal experience. And then move on to the action that will (or won't) be taken, and stand firm.

[ColdEthyl]

It's not overtly frequent, perhaps once or twice a year. What I've gathered is it will be when he's already got an idea in his head (it's usually a paranoid idea), and he "thinks" or "suspects" something. He's paranoia is usually under control but these things always happen when he has been drinking. I believe he "thought" he saw something, and weaved the story together based on his paranoia thoughts and whatever was eating him on that day.

OK, from a practical point of view, I've got three suggestions:

1. Validate his feelings if you can. (You already got this, even if it is soo hard to do here!)

2. Don't JADE all over his 'facts' that don't check up in the real world. (You've got this too!)

3. Take a clear stand only about inappropriate actions on his part, not stories.

In this case... .Inform him in no uncertain terms that your son will not be punished for something that you do not believe he did.

To keep from JADEing, state once that your personal experience does not match his personal experience. And then move on to the action that will (or won't) be taken, and stand firm.

*Nods* I'll have to do this in the future. I was fairly certain he wouldn't do a thing, he was just venting but I still wanted a plan in case he did. If my son was being rude to his uncle earlier in the day, which I believe, that would have been a punishable offense, but not the "late night walk" that never happened.

[formflier]

 

Grey,

Quick... tactics question.

If doing some "sorry you feel that way... let me think about it... ." make the entire thing "vanish" into a distant memory.  Do you think that is best way to go.

I like the "stand firm" advice... .only if he wants to "stand firm".  So... .if he demands punishment... .and she knows it didn't happen.  Then by all means... stand firm.  No blinking... .

But if she can deflect the entire thing... .and move along.

I suppose the only reason to "stand firm" in that case is if there is a thought of standing firm helping him realize he is making stuff up... .or addressing and issue around making stuff up. 

No idea how you figure out if he is ready to "deal with that... "

[Grey Kitty]

I would sometimes think about a potential course of action... .and then say to myself: "Nothing good will come of this." That's the tactical point I'm making here.

I suppose the only reason to "stand firm" in that case is if there is a thought of standing firm helping him realize he is making stuff up... .or addressing and issue around making stuff up. 

My take: He's making crap up for his own reasons, and probably isn't aware he's doing it.

Hard Enough Solution: Convince him that you don't believe him and you won't take an unreasonable action based on his belief. (Stand firm against unreasonable punishments for CE's son.)

Stupid losing proposition: First convince him that he's wrong (invalidation-city!)... .get him fully dysregulated, and THEN try to stop the unreasonable punishment for CE's son!   


I'm too pragmatic to want to make him address making stuff up. Let the DBT team deal with that sort of stuff... .if he ever gets that kind of treatment. In and of itself, it is mostly harmless, and it is probably the result of deeper issues anyhow.

[ColdEthyl]

That's what I was afraid of. I was hoping there was some magic, super secret way to diffuse a pwBPD who has taken to this type of behavior, and I guess there isn't one.

I believe he was disrespectful to his uncle earlier in the day, and that was the part I kept focusing on and guiding him to. I would never punish my children for something they didn't do. I was 90% certain he wouldn't do a thing, but I wasn't sure what to do if he actually did. He's never breathed a word of any of this since.