Well that didn’t go as planned

[StillHopeful73]

Man, I wish dealing with a BPD ex came with a manual. Or even if there could be a BPD ex choose your own adventure book (if your BPD ex does this go to page 55) .

So I posted elsewhere about how I finally have been enforcing boundaries lately with my BPD ex. Not just asking about them firmly or trying to explain to him why they are important but actually putting them into effect. Backlash was to be expected of course but I’m finding this very difficult to navigate so far.

After an increasing number of aggressive and derogatory texts  the past couple of months and constant schedule changes that have been going on for 2 years, I told my ex that we were going back strictly to the court order. Despite this he picked up our daughter last week when it wasn’t his night and I told him we already had plans. He said he didn’t care and was going to pick her up anyways. And he did. He sent me more rude and derogatory texts so I told him I’d no longer communicate via text and I sent him the link to a parenting communication site. I blocked him at this time.

I spoke with the school and after care program that day and they advised that they were supportive and would follow the court order. I was to give them notice in the morning if he’d be picking our daughter up for his mid-week after school visit.

So oddly enough no ranting emails per his norm. It’s been wonderfully quiet. On Monday I resent the link and nothing. I sent him an email on Tues asking if he received it. Nothing. I found out he called our daughter on Tues night on her phone to say he was picking her up on Wed after school. I sent him an email this morning asking him moving forward to communicate directly with me about his night with her so I’d know. Nothing.

So I call the after care program and let them know he’ll be picking her up. I received a call from the school though about 30 min before end of school that he had come to pick her up early so they refused him. He was really angry with the secretary and told her not to get involved. Though she confirmed he wasn’t threatening. He spoke with the principal and waited for school to be over and then picked her up from after care. I really had no idea he would pick her up early and wonder how many times he has done that before.

While waiting he called my mom and they got into a big fight. He was angry and embarrassed. He said he was done with me and her even though she has offered her place for dinners with our daughter on his time and tried to offer advice. He was livid. Apparently an hour later he texted her a joke.

So I can’t force him to use the site or email. I told my mom she could tell him to accept the invite or email me (she did) which he hasn’t. I know he has my email address as he has used it to send partial child support. He keeps telling my mom that I’m unreachable since he’s trying to text me.

And then she told me all the lies he’s been telling her. Stuff that is outrageous. Like how he gave me supposedly $2000 last year when in reality he used his insurance money to go down south. How all I do is complain about child support when I never bring it up. That I never said anything to him about the court order or using email. How he has all of these texts that apparently I’ve written that he has been saving to use against me. I’m used to him lying as that is pretty typical but this is just insanity. Do BPDs realize they are lying or is it part of their condition that their perception is this skewed? He can’t honestly believe all of what he is saying, can he?

Anyways, as someone who struggles with boundaries to begin with I hope I’m handling this correctly. I was expecting him to go ballistic with emails, not ignore me altogether. I really don’t think he has changed his email address and just think he’s playing games. I really would prefer not to communicate with him at all except we need to communicate about his mid-week visit each week right now. And other daughter items like birthday parties etc.

[worriedStepmom]

Congratulations!  You set a hard boundary on pickup times, and you made sure it could be enforced.  That was excellent work

Does your agreement specify how is he supposed to notify which day he wants (via email or text or phone call)?  If not, I might unblock him once more, let him know that your email address is X, and he should use it to communicate all notifications.  Then block him again.

If he doesn't notify you, is he allowed to get your child?  If not, then work that out with the after-care people.

You are training him in how to act.  He is going to get used to this.

[StillHopeful73]

Thanks worriedStepmom. I'm realizing now just how lucky I am with the court order that is in place. Because this was done shortly after the assault it states that all correspondence is to be via email.

I tried sending him a text from my email but if he doesn't respond then I will unblock him and send my email address per your suggestion.

I'm very fortunate that the school and after care people are supportive and they are going by the court order. The night is to be agreed upon by both parties so as long as I inform them that day that we have agreed, then she is allowed to go with him after school. So she is now only to be picked up in the after care on the agreed upon night.

It states on the court order that he has her every 2nd weekend from after school on Friday to Sunday at 4pm so they don't need my OK for the Friday night.

[StillHopeful73]

Just an update. I spoke with my daughter's teacher yesterday about an incident at school involving my daughter and another student (one of her classmates spit at her and her friend). While discussing this, the teacher mentioned how she had noticed that my daughter has been a bit withdrawn the past couple of months. Obviously this is concerning to me but at least her teacher and I had a good chat about things. She was very supportive.

I followed up with the therapist's office that she is on the wait list for to see if they could expedite and am hoping to get her in asap. I also have a meeting with a counselor from Triple P Parenting tonight to see if she can help me work through things with my BPD ex. It is super expensive though as packages START at $950 and that is only for a few sessions and email/telephone support (still cheaper than a lawyer I guess). If it works, I suppose it is worth it of course but yikes. I'll make sure that she has experience dealing with high conflict personalities. I really don't know if going this route is of any use. To pay that much money of which I know my ex won't pay any, especially if it doesn't result in anything.

As suggested yesterday I unblocked my ex and just stated that per my former text that I wouldn't be communicating via text anymore and I confirmed my email address. I indicated the email address that I had been sending his emails to and just asked that he let me know if it has changed. I said once he sent me an email that I could confirm the birthday party and gymnastics details with him for Saturday. Then I blocked his number again. And of course no response.

So this is where it is confusing to me. Because I didn't hear from him and he picks her up at aftercare tonight, this morning I put the invite in her overnight bag with the gymnastics info because I didn't want her to miss it. He likely was expecting me to buy a gift (as he always does) but since he didn't email me I couldn't tell him that I didn't buy one.

Should I just not have sent the info and she would have missed the activities? She shouldn't have to be punished by not attending these things because her dad is being a jackass. I'm not sure what else to do as I refuse to go back to texting. It appears that he just trying to see if I will give in.

Or if he doesn't respond by next week should I have my lawyer draft a letter threatening that I will file a motion? As mentioned prior, communication via email is in our court order.

[livednlearned]

Should I just not have sent the info and she would have missed the activities?

It's a reasonable thing to do and you would have hoped for the same if the roles were reversed, I'm guessing?

When you are changing behaviors that have been standard, and that affect your daughter, it's ok to give him a heads up that things are changing, imo. "Here's the info for the party in three weeks. She will need a gift for the party and may have some ideas about what you can buy for the party."

The hard thing is that parents struggling with BPD have a hard time just taking care of the bare minimum. Not being able to consistently regulate emotions makes it hard to show up for regular, consistent parenting. That's why it's a good idea to get a handle on some of the important validation skills so when your daughter is (invariably) disappointed, you know how best to respond. I don't comment on what my ex did, or doesn't do, I focus on how it makes S17 feel, even now. His therapist said that when there is an abject failure to parent, a child can do one of two things. Turn him or herself into a pretzel trying to be enough to earn that parent's love (which typically fails), or begin recognizing that the relationship cannot be repaired and must be experienced for what it is. The latter can feel a lot like taking it in the chin but apparently it is the healthier more resilient way to move forward with the relationship. She will eventually have to learn to navigate this relationship on her own and pretending that he is meeting the minimum requirements may only confuse her and postpone the truth.

It appears that he just trying to see if I will give in.

He is. And it's painful. My ex knew that he could affect me through his actions with my son and I went to the edge of hell and back setting boundaries that were excruciating in the moment. They had to be set and they hurt like nothing I've ever experienced, but only because I knew if I let it go the abuse would continue unchecked for years.

Or if he doesn't respond by next week should I have my lawyer draft a letter threatening that I will file a motion? As mentioned prior, communication via email is in our court order.

If he doesn't respond, then she doesn't spend that night with him, is that correct? A letter might be a good idea from a record-keeping and documenting perspective. It isn't likely to produce a desired outcome, unless he has shown a pattern of listening to lawyers in the past? What outcome do you anticipate if you send that letter, and are you willing to follow through on what you propose?

[ForeverDad]

I also have a meeting with a counselor tonight to see if she can help me work through things with my BPD ex. It is super expensive though as packages START at $950 and that is only for a few sessions and email/telephone support (still cheaper than a lawyer I guess). If it works, I suppose it is worth it of course but yikes. I'll make sure that she has experience dealing with high conflict personalities. I really don't know if going this route is of any use...

You haven't seen any indication thus far that your Ex (stbEx?) will improve his behaviors?  I didn't notice any from your recounting of events.  The collective wisdom here is that real recovery is a process and not an event.  A very long process.  Recovery is not something achievable in a few sessions.  Therapy generally takes months and years to work and then only succeeds with some, but it has to be diligently applied and real changes made.  Can it help with some issues and concerns?  Maybe.  Consider any successes to be bonuses.  Meanwhile make sure that you don't weaken your boundaries, he will need to prove himself over time first.

[StillHopeful73]

Thank you livednlearned and ForeverDad for your advice.

The boundaries are going to be the biggest challenge for me. Maybe not so much the boundaries themselves but the grey areas surrounding the boundaries. It is easy enough to say that I want to follow the court order but it’s the things that pop up that are and likely will continue to catch me off guard.  I’ve been working on myself and my self-esteem for a long time now and though I have made  a lot of progress the past 6 years, getting pulled back into things with my ex have knocked me back a few steps. So I think I question myself much more than I should. But I’m mindful of that and  I’ll continue to work on myself with my counselor.

Yesterday afternoon we had an incident. In the morning I had advised aftercare that my ex would be picking up our daughter from aftercare that afternoon. I received a call late afternoon that he had tried to pick up our daughter and they refused him so obviously he went nuts and I let them know of the error. He yelled at the aftercare people and then went to his truck and was screaming and swearing on the phone. My older daughter was on the bus and heard him from quite a distance away. People were staring. Thankfully our younger daughter wasn’t around. The aftercare people realized their mistake and told him it had nothing to do with me which seemed to calm him down a bit. Our daughter went with him shortly after.

As for my lawyer and a letter I really don’t know if it would do anything aside from make him angry. But I would follow through at some point if he continues to involve our daughter and/or put her in the middle. Especially now that her teacher is noticing her acting withdrawn.

Yes for the mid-week visit if he doesn’t confirm then he doesn’t see her. But hopefully he doesn’t keep trying to communicate through her.

I have a couple of leads on a counselor for her and will try to coordinate that ASAP. I’m already using the validation advice and yesterday morning when she cried about having to go with her dad I told her I understood she was upset and that I was always there to listen etc. Instead of the usual you guys will have so much fun etc.

As for the Triple P, it might be a good fit for me. She had mentioned she could work directly with me and help coach me through things which might be helpful for me right now. She said at some point my ex could be pulled in via video conference and we could try to talk through things or some of the issues. But yes I realize it is going to take a heck of a lot more than a few sessions to see any change in him or for things to get better. I guess I’m just hoping that if he starts working on himself that it might continue. And if it’s someone else talking to him that it might have more impact. Not holding my breath but Still hopeful .

[StillHopeful73]

Progress, I guess? My ex emailed me late morning yesterday to let me know that he was just finding out then that I hadn’t bought a gift. I responded that’s why I had asked him to contact me so we could discuss the weekend activities and that our daughter had wanted to go with him to pick one out (rather than me buy it on my lunch). Then I gave some suggestions about what the bday girl  might want.

So he dropped off our daughter tonight (15 min late) and then sent an email to me a short bit later saying he wanted to make up his weekend lost when we went on a trip back in February. He said to check my schedule and let him know what works.

I’ll take it! At least he’s communicating. It’s a start. And I’m happy it’s non-combative. I’m not really sure though what to do about the weekend owed. As it is, our daughter gets upset when it’s his weekend.

[ForeverDad]

You have a natural inclination to be fair.  That's the personality many members here share... also how many here got into our troubles.  I digress.

Being fair and nice is a wonderful quality... with normal people and in other circumstances.  The problem arises with our knowledge that (1) our sense of being overly fair will not be reciprocated consistently and (2) the same type of problem will keep arising.  He missed a weekend once and wants a make-up weekend. 

• Would that be your child having 3 weekends in a row with him?
• Are you comfortable with that?
• Is your young child comfortable with that?
• Does the order require that?
• Will this dilemma arise again with future missed weekends?

Don't be too frightened of a threat to take you to court to get his failed weekend.  He was the one who didn't pick your child up.  As I understand it, you didn't actively block him, right?  So that's on him anyway.

Here's my experience on how much reaction a failed weekend might get...

Post on 11/22/2018:
I had two temp orders, one was during the first months of our separation and the other was issued when we had the first divorce hearing.  There were 3 months in between without orders where she blocked my father-son contact because I refused her entitled terms which would have limited me to supervised visitation.  Both orders were by the same magistrate.  Upon our return for the divorce, he confirmed with her that she had totally blocked contact for 3 full months and he remarked, "I'll fix that."  His solution was to reinstate the prior order where I had alternate weekends.  No, he didn't give her consequences, not even a lecture or finger wagging.

Yes, he was late bringing her back.  I doubt that is very 'actionable'.  Years ago my county had a time window for exchanges and the guideline listed a window of up to 30 minutes for the exchange.  I looked recently and that window isn't mentioned any more.  Unless your lawyer or court states otherwise, you may have to Let Go of your frustration with him over the 15 minutes.

Some have tried to apply a minimal resolution that may or may not work for you.  They told the ex, "You were late upon the return of our children and this is becoming a pattern with you.  The next pick-up will be the same amount of minutes delayed."

[worriedStepmom]

As for the Triple P, it might be a good fit for me. She had mentioned she could work directly with me and help coach me through things which might be helpful for me right now. She said at some point my ex could be pulled in via video conference and we could try to talk through things or some of the issues. But yes I realize it is going to take a heck of a lot more than a few sessions to see any change in him or for things to get better. I guess I’m just hoping that if he starts working on himself that it might continue. And if it’s someone else talking to him that it might have more impact. Not holding my breath but Still hopeful .

You really do need to let go of even the tiniest niggle of hope that he's going to work on himself and change.  He doesn't think he's the problem.  It doesn't matter how many people tell him he's the problem, he won't believe it and he isn't going to change.

Your current path - setting boundaries and holding tightly to them - is the only way forward.  Your daughter is going to be disappointed by him sometimes.  It's going to break your heart.  It kinda sucks...but you are modeling for your kids what healthy self-respect looks like.

[StillHopeful73]

Thank you, ForeverDad and worriedStepmom for your replies.

Yes, I am often told I'm too nice and really do try to be fair. Often I wish I wasn't this way as I've learned it doesn't work well with a BPD ex. You don't know how many times that I wish I could just flick the "bitch switch" . There might be more conflict being that way but maybe he wouldn't try to manipulate as often. But I have been working hard on myself (and will continue to do so) to be more firm and to not let him bully or manipulate me.

Especially with our daughter's anxiety symptoms lately and the fact she doesn't want to go with him, he is 100% NOT getting her 3 weekends in a row (I'm not comfortable with that and I know she wouldn't be). I know he'll be angry but so be it. I had thought about offering an extra night on Easter weekend as it is his weekend and we will be splitting it since it is a holiday weekend, but I'm still thinking about that. Thank you for sharing your missed weekend experience ForeverDad.

As for him being late 15 min, it is just more of an annoyance as it is pretty typical. I would never think of pursuing that on it's own though. I also read somewhere that 30 min is the magic number. I do document everything though so that it is all there, if needed one day for court.

Speaking of court, in all honesty, the fear of it is a big stressor for me. My biggest fear is that he will take me back to court and that he will manipulate/charm or that the judge will believe his lies and increase his time or change the order to shared custody. I know it's not likely but I've read of those situations happening on here. Right now he is not in a very good financial situation so thankfully I'm not worried about going back to court anytime soon.

And worriedStepmom, I know you're right but it is those very few and far between moments where he does own up or acknowledges to an extent that he could be part of the problem, that give me that tiny niggle of hope, I guess. They don't happen often but he has sent the very occasional text that says he knows our daughter doesn't want to go with him and that he knows that he is causing her pain. Or when he told my mom recently that he finally read over the texts he sent me (over a month later) and realized he was a jerk. Or when he first went on leave in 2017 due to stress and gave some of his insurance money to catch up on his child support. So though they really aren't very often and are amongst the very heated, irresponsible and aggressive stuff, they are there. It may just be part of his manipulation though, who knows. Or it could be when he was on his medication as those comments (aside from him saying he was a jerk) have not happened for some time. But you're right, me setting boundaries and holding to them is the only way forward. I can only be responsible for me.