Things have fallen apart with my mother

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am copying my intro post here because I really need help.

I came across this board as I was searching for information on how to try to get someone with BPD into therapy.  Seems like it's not possible (unless they choose to).

My story is really long.  I will try to keep it brief.

I believe there is a multi-generational history of BPD in my family, though my sister was the only one who has ever been diagnosed.  Our maternal grandmother is almost surely BPD (or something else) and our mother is quite likely BPD.  Our maternal great-grandmother was also most likely BPD.

Great-grandmother did not speak to grandmother for at least 20 some yearsbefore her death as far as I know.  Mother has not spoken to grandmother for about 13+ years.  Sister spoke to grandmother, and other mother in passing as they shared custody of sister's daughter (daughter was in primary care of my mother).

My sister was diagnosed through court-ordered therapy about 15-20 years ago.  She rejected the diagnosis, never got help, and died late last year (cancer).  She had life-long issues with drugs, alcohol and abuse.

Around the time that my sister's cancer metastasized to her brain, my mother sort of "freaked out" on me.  Oh, it is important to note that I live 3,000 miles away.  Mom texted me to tell me about the brain tumors and I called her.  During the conversation - which we only talked about my sister - mom said I should call my niece.  I said I was free later that night, but niece never called.  She's a teenager, so I figured she got busy.

Apparently, my mom was under the impression I would call niece and I thought niece would call me.  And this let to a complete downward spiral.  I got an email from my mother about how selfish I am and everything is about me, and I don't care about my niece and it brought up things from my childhood over 25 years ago) and seemed completely out of left field.  I get now that she was stressed about my sister and the misunderstanding triggered her, but it was harsh, random and mean.  She ended it by saying it was "just some things that needed to be said" and "not to reply because she would be too stubborn to read it" and "Love, Mom".

I was devastated.  I called and left her a crying voicemail and then let her be (per her request).  She randomly texted me a month or so later saying she was "over it" and I replied that I didn't know what to say to her, and whatever I said, she wouldn't listen anyhow.  She said she would, and so I responded to her email.

Bad choice.

This led to another hateful email from her saying how she used to have me on a pedestal but clearly she was so wrong about me and how she should have known all I would do was attack her (?) and on and on.  I did reply an off-the-cuff email basically countering everything she said (pointing out how ridiculous her accusations were) and then tried to shut her out of my mind.

At this point, I went to therapy because I was so stressed, confused, hurt... . my therapist (who I have seen on and off for many years) suggested my mother is likely BPD, based on her actions and family history.  So I started trying to read and learn what I could to try to help me deal with her, but moreso to try to not feel so damaged by it all.

On my birthday, my husband posted a very loving note to me on Facebook which not only wished me a happy birthday, but addressed how my mother would not contact me because she was too stubborn and some other things but he would always be here for me.  Wrong?  perhaps, but he did it.  Which led to another email from her (because apparently we only communicate by email - her words, though she started the whole thing via email) and at that point, she "disowned" us.

Then my sister died and my mother called to tell me.  I pretended none of the other stuff happened and supported her through a lot of drama (not surprisingly as mom is divorced from our father going on 36 years) and I even got her a hotel room when she had to travel to my niece's college to tell her as my mom also lost her job in all of this (apparently for "being too negative" at work).  I tried to show that I was going to forget it all.

At one point, she emailed and said she made a "terrible mistake" and things would "work out, they always do".  It is the closet I have EVER gotten to an apology from her in my life.  I was estatic.

But she hasn't acted that way.  She still isn't speaking to me (going on 9 months now) and if I send her anything (i.e. "thank you for the gifts for the kids" she will reply (usually in some martyr way like, "if they don't want it, you can return" but she does not reach out.

Our last exchange was that I replied to a shipping notice for V Day gifts for the kids and I commented that I hate that our relationship has gotten to what it is.  She replied that she "cried about it every day".  I looked for advice online on how to continue this conversation in a BPD-friendly way and responded asking her what she thought we should do about it, and she responded that considering she has three failed marriages and a daughter with drug and alcohol problems, she isn't qualified to answer.  Another communication roadblock.

Against my better judgement, I replied that maybe, then, she should consider a counselor, as she has been through so much in the past year and an unbiased, outside opinion could help.  Of course I have not heard form her since.

I don't know what to do.  I hate to see her hurting, but I am realizing there is no possible way I can help her.  I also have four children to worry about and I do not want them to experience this type of relationship.  However, she is also damaging my niece (now 18 and apparently, my mother is stalking my niece's boyfriend, trying to find out about him (FB) and meet him (going to his place of work) because my niece understandably does not want him to meet her!).  So in addition to my own personal distress over all of this, I am trying to support/help my niece and keep feeling trapped.  Also, my mother now is taking to asking me niece to tell me things and then freaking out on her if she doesn't do it.

I am so angry, hurt and sad.  I am also scared to post this because I know the hell I would pay if she somehow found and read this.  But I don't know what to do.  I don't want to be estranged, I want to help her, but I also can't allow her to do this to me.  I feel like all I can do is be her doormat, which is ironic, since her latest thing is she is "tired of being everyone else's doormat".

Advice?   cry

I also wanted to add that I don't even know if therapy would help her because I could totally see her going in there and making the therapist believe that it's everyone else who is so mean to her and making her life miserable.   huh

I have been distraught over this for months.  My mother is currently unemployed, ending her third marriage, my niece (whom she raised) just left for college, I live 3,000 miles away and my sister (my mother's only other child) just died.  Of course my heart breaks for her and I want to help her somehow, but at the same time, all she does is freak out on my (and my husband) and push us away, be angry, etc.  And now she uses my niece as an intermediary and is turning her anger on my niece since I'm not available.

I feel like all I do is stress and cry any more.  I am both dealing with the fact that my relationship with my mother is forever and permanently damaged by this and it will never be the relationship I thought it was all this time.  I hate dishonesty and being superficial with her - which is how I feel I need to be to have any contact - sucks.  And I am saddened by how it affects my children.  Fortunately, we are far enough away that they haven't completely clued in that she's "not around" yet.

[Fremont]

I am copying my intro post here because I really need help.

I came across this board as I was searching for information on how to try to get someone with BPD into therapy.  Seems like it's not possible (unless they choose to).

My story is really long.  I will try to keep it brief.

I believe there is a multi-generational history of BPD in my family, though my sister was the only one who has ever been diagnosed.  Our maternal grandmother is almost surely BPD (or something else) and our mother is quite likely BPD.  Our maternal great-grandmother was also most likely BPD.

Great-grandmother did not speak to grandmother for at least 20 some yearsbefore her death as far as I know.  Mother has not spoken to grandmother for about 13+ years.  Sister spoke to grandmother, and other mother in passing as they shared custody of sister's daughter (daughter was in primary care of my mother).

My sister was diagnosed through court-ordered therapy about 15-20 years ago.  She rejected the diagnosis, never got help, and died late last year (cancer).  She had life-long issues with drugs, alcohol and abuse.

Around the time that my sister's cancer metastasized to her brain, my mother sort of "freaked out" on me.  Oh, it is important to note that I live 3,000 miles away.  Mom texted me to tell me about the brain tumors and I called her.  During the conversation - which we only talked about my sister - mom said I should call my niece.  I said I was free later that night, but niece never called.  She's a teenager, so I figured she got busy.

Apparently, my mom was under the impression I would call niece and I thought niece would call me.  And this let to a complete downward spiral.  I got an email from my mother about how selfish I am and everything is about me, and I don't care about my niece and it brought up things from my childhood over 25 years ago) and seemed completely out of left field.  I get now that she was stressed about my sister and the misunderstanding triggered her, but it was harsh, random and mean.  She ended it by saying it was "just some things that needed to be said" and "not to reply because she would be too stubborn to read it" and "Love, Mom".

I was devastated.  I called and left her a crying voicemail and then let her be (per her request).  She randomly texted me a month or so later saying she was "over it" and I replied that I didn't know what to say to her, and whatever I said, she wouldn't listen anyhow.  She said she would, and so I responded to her email.

Bad choice.

This led to another hateful email from her saying how she used to have me on a pedestal but clearly she was so wrong about me and how she should have known all I would do was attack her (?) and on and on.  I did reply an off-the-cuff email basically countering everything she said (pointing out how ridiculous her accusations were) and then tried to shut her out of my mind.

At this point, I went to therapy because I was so stressed, confused, hurt... . my therapist (who I have seen on and off for many years) suggested my mother is likely BPD, based on her actions and family history.  So I started trying to read and learn what I could to try to help me deal with her, but moreso to try to not feel so damaged by it all.

On my birthday, my husband posted a very loving note to me on Facebook which not only wished me a happy birthday, but addressed how my mother would not contact me because she was too stubborn and some other things but he would always be here for me.  Wrong?  perhaps, but he did it.  Which led to another email from her (because apparently we only communicate by email - her words, though she started the whole thing via email) and at that point, she "disowned" us.

Then my sister died and my mother called to tell me.  I pretended none of the other stuff happened and supported her through a lot of drama (not surprisingly as mom is divorced from our father going on 36 years) and I even got her a hotel room when she had to travel to my niece's college to tell her as my mom also lost her job in all of this (apparently for "being too negative" at work).  I tried to show that I was going to forget it all.

At one point, she emailed and said she made a "terrible mistake" and things would "work out, they always do".  It is the closet I have EVER gotten to an apology from her in my life.  I was estatic.

But she hasn't acted that way.  She still isn't speaking to me (going on 9 months now) and if I send her anything (i.e. "thank you for the gifts for the kids" she will reply (usually in some martyr way like, "if they don't want it, you can return" but she does not reach out.

Our last exchange was that I replied to a shipping notice for V Day gifts for the kids and I commented that I hate that our relationship has gotten to what it is.  She replied that she "cried about it every day".  I looked for advice online on how to continue this conversation in a BPD-friendly way and responded asking her what she thought we should do about it, and she responded that considering she has three failed marriages and a daughter with drug and alcohol problems, she isn't qualified to answer.  Another communication roadblock.

Against my better judgement, I replied that maybe, then, she should consider a counselor, as she has been through so much in the past year and an unbiased, outside opinion could help.  Of course I have not heard form her since.

I don't know what to do.  I hate to see her hurting, but I am realizing there is no possible way I can help her.  I also have four children to worry about and I do not want them to experience this type of relationship.  However, she is also damaging my niece (now 18 and apparently, my mother is stalking my niece's boyfriend, trying to find out about him (FB) and meet him (going to his place of work) because my niece understandably does not want him to meet her!).  So in addition to my own personal distress over all of this, I am trying to support/help my niece and keep feeling trapped.  Also, my mother now is taking to asking me niece to tell me things and then freaking out on her if she doesn't do it.

I am so angry, hurt and sad.  I am also scared to post this because I know the hell I would pay if she somehow found and read this.  But I don't know what to do.  I don't want to be estranged, I want to help her, but I also can't allow her to do this to me.  I feel like all I can do is be her doormat, which is ironic, since her latest thing is she is "tired of being everyone else's doormat".

Advice?   cry

I also wanted to add that I don't even know if therapy would help her because I could totally see her going in there and making the therapist believe that it's everyone else who is so mean to her and making her life miserable.   huh

I have been distraught over this for months.  My mother is currently unemployed, ending her third marriage, my niece (whom she raised) just left for college, I live 3,000 miles away and my sister (my mother's only other child) just died.  Of course my heart breaks for her and I want to help her somehow, but at the same time, all she does is freak out on my (and my husband) and push us away, be angry, etc.  And now she uses my niece as an intermediary and is turning her anger on my niece since I'm not available.

I feel like all I do is stress and cry any more.  I am both dealing with the fact that my relationship with my mother is forever and permanently damaged by this and it will never be the relationship I thought it was all this time.  I hate dishonesty and being superficial with her - which is how I feel I need to be to have any contact - sucks.  And I am saddened by how it affects my children.  Fortunately, we are far enough away that they haven't completely clued in that she's "not around" yet.

[P.F.Change]

Hi, Fremont. I'm glad to see your post here.

I can tell you're really hurting. It is hard when a parent has a personality disorder. Our hopes often differ from reality. I wanted a mother I could feel safe with, who would help me feel secure as I moved out in the world on my own. That is not the reality I got--my mother doesn't know how to feel secure and so she couldn't really help me do so. I wanted her to be a grandmother who could love my children without needing to use them to feel good about herself, and in reality she doesn't have enough of a sense of self to be able to do that. So I have had to adjust my expectations.

You say you hate being superficial but feel you must do in order to protect yourself. I can understand that. It is natural to want to be able to share and have fun with our parents, and frustrating when that turns out not to be possible. It is hard to be close with someone who doesn't have the skills to maintain close relationships.

It sounds like you have done what you can to suggest your mother find help for herself. It is up to her to decide if she wants it. What are you doing to help yourself? Therapy can be really beneficial for us, too, as we learn to cope with our dysfunctional families of origin. Have you ever spoken with a counselor about your relationship with your family?

You say you are "saddened by how it affects your children." What are they going through?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[Fremont]

I have been in therapy for myself for many, many years (on and off).

As for my kids, the "hurting them" part comes from them no longer hearing from or seeing their grandmother, except for the occassional birthday or holiday package she sends.  And at this point, my youngest doesnot know her.

[AsianSon]

I understand that your situation is very painful, and I have similar experiences. 

My son and daughter are now in their late teens and know enough to want to avoid their grandmother, who I strongly believe has undiagnosed BPD. When my children were younger, I did not know about BPD, and they spent summers with her and endured mistreatment. To this day, I wonder if some BPD tendencies were transmitted to my daughter. I hope nothing like this happens to your children.   

So it is possible that your 3000 mile separation and lack of interaction might prevent negative effects on your children. 

In recent years, after I learned of the mistreatment and when I started to recognize the severity of my mother's unstable emotional state, I tried to act as a buffer to protect my children from her.  I also made use of the 1000 mile physical separation between my family and her.  But it was (and is) difficult for me, and so I caution you if you are thinking about the same role. 

Right now, helping your mother from a distance sounds very stressful.  I know because I regularly travel to my mother's city for business.  But even with that, it is painful for me to interact with her or help her in any meaningful way. 

Perhaps for the near term, you can focus on yourself, your kids, and maybe your niece first?  For yourself, perhaps let go a little (or a lot) of your feeling that you must help your mother or immediately fix your relationship with her?

For your kids, maybe their other grandparent(s) can be emphasized, or perhaps help them interact with other older friends or acquaintances as "stand ins" for grandparents?

And for your niece, maybe help her be educated about BPD and form a mini-team with her to support each other in dealing with your mother?  At a minimum, it might help communication between the two of you.

I don't presume to think that any of the above is new to you or will work.  But I understand where you are, and I wish you less stress and more peace. 

[P.F.Change]

As for my kids, the "hurting them" part comes from them no longer hearing from or seeing their grandmother, except for the occassional birthday or holiday package she sends.  And at this point, my youngest doesnot know her.

It can be understandably hard for kids when contact with a grandparent changes. Have they told you they are hurting about this? What kinds of questions are they asking?