Does Anyone Else Feel Like They Are Fighting a Ghost?

[Legacymaker]

This is something I have felt whenever my mother rages and disassociates. I know that my grandmother was very critical and probably BPD.  My grandfather was most likely NPD.

When I am involved in an argument with my mother (mostly just being raged at) I feel like my mother doesn't even realize I am in the room. Her eyes glass over as she runs through all of my perceived injustices.

She then spews what I see as her own weaknesses transferring the behaviors to me.

Finally she acts like a very young child and martyrs herself.

My mom's mother and father died when she was in her early 30's... . she is now 70.   More than once I have wanted to exorcise the ghosts of my grandparents and finally let us all have a rest.

[Sitara]

I think I'd describe it as more of a wall.  Sometimes I felt like I could literally see it being put up between us.  She'd turn her side to me, cross her arms, stare at the floor.  We knew you did not touch my mom when she was like this.  If you tried to, or to give her a hug, it would be like hugging a tree - dead, cold, and solid. You'd probably also suffer verbal backlash for attempting.

And with the ghost of your grandparents, I understand.  How many times did I listen to her rage about the injustices her parents did to her... . and I would try and discuss ways she could move on or try and talk to her about it (in a productive way) and she just wanted to rage.  It obviously still causes her pain, but she refuses to let it go.  She claims that when they died, a weight lifted off her shoulders, but why does she still seem to be in pain, why does she still take out her frustrations on others if that were so true?

I suggested she seek help to move past these unresolved issues, but I'm sure you can imagine how that went.

[lauren2013]

Legacymaker, my mom is the EXACT same way.

She gets a totally different look in her eyes... . they are glassy and unfocused.  There is no reasoning, no conversation... . just rage.

She says what she needs to say (or rather yells what she needs to say) and then she's out... . in another room with the door locked... . she just runs away.  It's like she throws up EVERYTHING on you and you don't have a chance to defend yourself, argue back, or even release any of your own emotions.  You are just stuck sitting there with all this pent up emotion and thinking about each horrible thing she said that you've done (because there are like 40 things you need to defend yourself against).

[Legacymaker]

After re-reading my post, I suppose I should clarify who I think the ghost is.  My mother mentally retreats to her own childhood during conflict.  I believe, that during her rages, she actually sees me as my abusive Grandmother!  She repeatedly compares me to my Grandmother.  Since she has never had a nice thing to say about her mother, I have asked her many times not to do this but those requests always go unheaded.

For example, a year ago (Christmas again) my mother was being flamboyant in my kitchen, she talks with her hands.  She had a sweater on, that swung out as she moved.  She was centemeters away from knocking a very valuable crystal display off of the table.  I said "mom, your sweater is getting very close to the crystals, could you move forward a little?"  

She spun around at me and said, "my mother asked me to do that once and I left home at 18"... . HUH?  I should also mention that my mom was 69 at the time!

She had been showing off for her own sister, who had been visiting my home for Christmas.  I must have looked completely flabergasted because her sister pulled me aside later in the evening.

This was the one and only time I have received validation from any other family member, that my mom functions differently than most.  Her sister is very loyal.  She gave me a hug and said, "she's always been dramatic."

I wish I could ask my aunt more about their childhood, (there is a 10 year difference between them and an 11 year difference between my aunt and I). My mom and her sister are thick-as-thieves, so I know this is as close as an explaination as I can expect to receive.

[Sitara]

Ah, I see what you're saying. My mom doesn't compare me to her side when she's upset, maybe because if she said I was like them I could have only gotten it from her.  She would associate my bad qualities with my dad, "Ugh, you're just like your father!" Obviously all my bad parts must have come from him.

And that's quite the overreaction she had to you just asking her to move, but I can relate.

[CalledaPerson]

I am mostly NC at this point, but I have noticed that my mother doesn't remember basic things that I tell her, things that any normal mother would remember. Such as this: My car got broken into, windows smashed, about a year ago and a bunch of my stuff was stolen. I told her about it several times and noticed when I was telling her that she barely acknowledged what I said. She reacted to it but very superficially, like she was thinking about something else. Then, when I brought it up recently, she said she didn't know that and asked me whether I had told her about it before. I told her about it at least twice before. Her self-absorption and selfishness is so complete, she doesn't hear what I say if it doesn't involve her directly. The only thing she cares about is what she is thinking and her SELF. So, really, it's almost the other way around on the ghost analogy. I feel like the ghost, because she doesn't hear anything I say. 

[Legacymaker]

Interesting CalledaPerson

That is a good example that you have offered. I have been on the receiving end of those one sided conversations too.  For years I have been concerned that my mother might be exhibiting early signs of dementia. I have never really contemplated that it may be tied to her self focus. Considering your description, I would say that my mother is very similar.  Her mind often appears to be directed elsewhere... . usually it seems like she is processing her perceived injustices and how angry I make her.  Thank you for giving me a new way to consider this... .

[lucyhoneychurch]

My guess is from the little I have managed to read on these "spells" or "episodes," rages, maybe... .

I think they completely disassociate. I think that whatever trigger they are experiencing when we are simply US and they are seeing maybe a negligent/ambivalent parent or whomever... . there is a disconnect between the reality of the moment and something way way back in time for them.

I know I get triggered. Reality, if I slow it down to only seconds, is saying I am okay... . but the gut reaction is "fight or flight" feelings that have nothing to do with present moment, and ***everything*** to do with my FOO, past history or trauma(s).

I used to not believe they could possibly forget the awful purely AWFUL things they had said and done (I know I can count on one hands the time I went off verbally at my kids and they've verified it with their own venting moments).  I used to think she was covering her ass (CYA, sure, we all do it).

I really think they go someplace else in their heads and minds and more importantly for us - WITH someone else - a negligent (in their perception) parent, a molestation, a trauma - that has so little to do with us it's almost absurd.

Survival takes on all sorts of hues and cries.

My several years with the youngest of my children took on shades of sadness and hurt that I never in my wildest dreams thought could happen under *my* roof, not after the years I spent under hers (uBPD's), as my marriage came unwound and died.

My youngest and I said things that were unspeakably not "us."

Hurtful things. And we each thought the other was "out to get us," so survival sort of ripped off the little velvet gloves and we let the chips fall where they may... . it's been repaired *now* but only because this child is with the ex/father.

Legacy... . see if you can track the ghost as perhaps a dysfunctional creature's effort to simply survive the next 60 seconds... . no matter the cost to her young as she does so.   :'(

Not a sneaky way out like I used to think when I'd hear "I don't remember saying that, I didn't say that... . "

But possibly there is simply no way she can be in the moment, remember the moment, and exist at the same time.

Not excuses for her... . possibly just explanations.

This might help you know it wasn't personal. When in fact it's as personal as it gets  - I mean, what other creature eats its young on almost daily basis? - but it is in actuality a race for midnight and getting to the next day and living out another sentence of 24 hrs so to speak.

See what I mean?   

[Legacymaker]

lucyhoneychurch,

Legacy... . see if you can track the ghost as perhaps a dysfunctional creature's effort to simply survive the next 60 seconds... . no matter the cost to her young as she does so.   

My mother has many ghosts.  I am on a first name basis with most of them, the worst of which was her own mother.  She tells me every time we are together that my life is no where near as difficult as hers has been, so I shouldn't hold her behavior against her!  Unfortunately she has never let go of a single incident that has hurt her and every time we are together I must hear the litany of abuses every person has exhibited. This consumes most of the time we spend together.

Most of the time, I can't tell whether my mother is going to remain in the present or retreat to her past.  As soon as I trust that she is in the here and now, I say something wrong and off she flies away to neverland!  Its absolutely exhausting!

I mean, what other creature eats its young on almost daily basis?

Funny you would post this, it is one of my mothers favorite sayings, along with... . I brought you into the world and I can take you out!