In Crisis Again After 5 Months

[Elbry]

I have been watching DD15 this week because I just knew she was decompensating.  Last week she tried to hide a safety pin from me and had a meltdown and screamed at me and threw things when I asked her about it.  All week she has been wearing long sleeves which is very unusual for her even in winter, nevermind in a hot humid summer.  2 nights ago, she asked to go see a friend but asked in a very hesitant way she has when she knows she is asking for something inappropriate.  Upon further questioning, I found out the first friend was actually at a second friends house where she is NOT allowed to go, and hasn't been for quite some time, because the mom allows them to drink and do drugs and allows her daughter to date men in there 20's.  Also, the second friend is one of the on again off again friends my DD goes through and this girl is a Queen bee that cycles through being a bestie with and bullying my DD and it is a very unhealthy relationship. So we had a major explosion with all the "you hate me" "you don't care that I don't have any friends"   I tried SET, but she wasn't having it.

Yesterday I went on an errand and there was a note on the door that she went for a walk and my mom instincts went off.  I knew where she went for a walk to.  But I decided to let it go for a bit and give her the benefit of the doubt because she like to go a park nearby and sit and think. We stayed in touch by text but when I told her to come home she gave me a hard time and when I asked her who she was with she said no one and I had enough. So I drove over to that girl's house and there she was outside on the sidewalk with her.  I just pulled up and said get in the car.  On the way home, she freaked, screaming, crying.  "I can't talk to you if I do you will put me in the hospital again"  "If I tell you what's going on you will send me to residential" "you hate me you just want to get rid of me and send me away".  So I know she is not safe.  She won't talk to me. I called the crisis line to ask for an e-val and they said she's just having a temper tantrum because I caught her.  And I can see how it would look that way, but I know her and I was already on high alert for this.  She's telling me she needs to talk, but is afraid.  She's telling me she is unsafe and knows whatever is going on is hospital worthy.  I didn't sleep last night, I kept checking on her.  I don't know what to do.  She has counseling today and I am going to talk to her T, but beyond that... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Elbry,

Please don't listen to people who have no clue, i.e, the "crises" person! You know your DD better than anyone. Go with your gut instincts. Your motherly instincts. Your womanly insticts. I fear for your DD if she does not get the help she needs.

I dealt with the "you just want to get rid of me(s)". I repeadetly told her how much I loved her and want to keep her safe. Told her that I would do whatever I had to do to ensure that she was, even if she hated me for it.  At least I know I tried.

[pamik27]

I am so sorry. I am new here so my advice might not mean much, but maybe others here can say if there a way to enable her to talk openly -- about anything -- without fear of being "sent away."

This must be common fear... .I recently saw a text from my daughter to a friend who was struggling... .she told her to talk to a therapist "but don't tell them your worst thoughts because they will send you to the hospital."

I am sorry to hear your story. It sounds a lot like mine.

[Elbry]

Ray-  I told my DD the same things, how much I loved her and how I will do anything to keep her safe and keep her in my life.   I told her if she hates me for a little while, so be it, that is a price I am willing to pay to keep her alive. 

Pamik- Fear of abandonment is huge for people with BPD.  I just saw my own T and we talked about this.  My DD perceives me sending her to the hospital as abandonment.  She uses it against me to guilt me and it breaks my heart but I have had to do it for her safety several times.  When she is in a good place, she knows it was for her own good, but when the BPD is talking forget about it.

I tried many times last night to get her to make a safety plan with me.  I tried to explain that if she is able to make a safety plan for home, she won't need a hospital, but she doesn't trust me.  That is the biggest problem, she just refuses to cooperate when she gets like this.  She refuses to talk to us and that is why she always ends up in hospitals for her safety when she is suicidal.  She has had 3 attempts at home so we can't take chances.  I am going to see her T with her at noon and we will go from there.

[Being Mindful]

Ray-  I told my DD the same things, how much I loved her and how I will do anything to keep her safe and keep her in my life.   I told her if she hates me for a little while, so be it, that is a price I am willing to pay to keep her alive. 

Pamik- Fear of abandonment is huge for people with BPD.  I just saw my own T and we talked about this.  My DD perceives me sending her to the hospital as abandonment.  She uses it against me to guilt me and it breaks my heart but I have had to do it for her safety several times.  When she is in a good place, she knows it was for her own good, but when the BPD is talking forget about it.

I tried many times last night to get her to make a safety plan with me.  I tried to explain that if she is able to make a safety plan for home, she won't need a hospital, but she doesn't trust me.  That is the biggest problem, she just refuses to cooperate when she gets like this.  She refuses to talk to us and that is why she always ends up in hospitals for her safety when she is suicidal.  She has had 3 attempts at home so we can't take chances.  I am going to see her T with her at noon and we will go from there.

One thing that worked for us is that when my DD was in a stable place is that we discussed how she could let us know her "status" when she was struggling. She would say I'm in the red, green or yellow. She didn't need to give me details if she didn't want to or couldn't but it was a way for her to communicate her stress or problems without details and without fear of judgment. Red was highly stressed, needing help. Yellow was not doing very well but I am trying, and green was good to go. If she used this system, the threat of being hospitalized or consequences was lessened because she was communicating with us and working within a safe plan. Each color had a different response from us, and pre-determined. Each color had a plan to help her address what her needs were to get back to green. She came to recognize that using this plan had good consequences within her own care. She owned it and if she used it, it lessened our stress, which lessened our panic, which helped us to rationally deal with whatever "IT" was. This way she had part in her own care rather than always feeling like we were going to send her away to another RTC, foster care or hospital.

We too could use the lights by saying... .Hey DD, Dad and I've been noticing that you are not following the rules of house, you said you were one place but you really were at xx. That alarms us that you are not making good choices for yourself. Can you share what's going on? Dad and I are concerned and are seeing you in the yellow light. What can you do to help yourself?

[Elbry]

I really like that idea Being Mindful, thank-you for sharing it with me.  I am going to talk to her about it and see what she says.  I don't have to know details of what is going on with her, I just have to know she is safe, so this plan might work.  We have a crisis plan that outlines warning signs with her behavior and how I am to respond etc. but it is so clinical and she hates it.

We saw her T and I told her my concerns.  They then had a session and her T felt she was safe enough to be home.  Of course I'm on high-alert.  I'm so tired.  It is so exhausting dealing with this as you all know.  Physically exhausting because I'm not sleeping, I'm worrying and checking on her all night.  And emotionally exhausting, it's just draining.  I just want to sit down and cry.

I finally saw her arms and they are not cut, I don't know what the long sleeves have been about, but I was wrong about that. 

[Rapt Reader]

I finally saw her arms and they are not cut, I don't know what the long sleeves have been about, but I was wrong about that. 

Thank God for that, Elbry... .I also think Being Mindful's advice about the different colored alerts was great. I'd never heard of that, and I do think that it could've been helpful for our family when my adult (37) BPD son was going through his terrible symptoms and behaviors.

I can really relate to your stresses, exhaustion, and feelings of "high alert" that keep you from sleeping well or even functioning normally while awake. I hated those days (my son's problems included Heroin Addiction and Suicidal Ideations) and shudder when I remember them... .I'm so very sorry for what you are dealing with, but you are a bit ahead of the troubles because she at least has a Therapist and professionals who know what her problems stem from.

My son's troubles began to subside once he ended up in a Dual Diagnosis Program after a serious Suicidal Ideation; that Center made the BPD diagnosis and taught him DBT, and saved his life. It was an Intensive In-Patient 21-day Program (other DDx Programs have different time-frames) which treated his mental health issues besides his H addiction.

He is now clean and sober for almost 17 months, the happiest and healthiest I've ever seen him since he was 19 or so. Things aren't perfect; he's still dealing with Social Anxiety and gets despondent (not truly Clinically Depressed anymore) over the fact that he's isolating himself right now from the "real world" in order to stay clean and sober. But, considering where he was in February and March of 2013 (as he was flaming-out, the circumstances that ended him up in the DDx Program), I am thrilled for his recovery-in-progress that has been so helpful for my own peace of mind and well-being.

Is there any Dual Diagnosis type of Program available to your daughter, Elbry? Something where she gets ongoing, intense daily Therapy and Counseling? Maybe she has already had something like that? It's not just for people with Mental Health issues and Substance Addictions; it's for people with Mental Health issues and something else behavioral: Self-Harm, Suicidal Ideations, Substance Abuse (as opposed to Addiction), or even co-morbid diagnoses (ADD, ODD, Clinical Depression, Social Anxiety, etc.).

These are just some thoughts... .you may have already tried this direction. I just know the pain that she is going through (I saw it with my son), and the terrible stress and heartache you are going through, too. It reminds me of our situation last year, and the prior 17 years or so (!), before my son was diagnosed properly and given the proper treatments.

And those are actually on-going; it's not ending any time soon, and he's still not on his own and self-supporting. But things are better and he is in recovery, and my life is not tangled up with the stresses and traumas that we'd had in the past... .There is hope for your daughter, Elbry. Please hang in there 

[jellibeans]

Dear Elbry

Do you know what her triggers are right now? Why is this happening now? I think it is important to look to see why she is unsettled right now. For my dd17 I feel it is a few things... .she lost her best friend and it is summer and she doesn't have a schedule. I think my dd has trouble with change... .transistioning to summer was not easy. Has your dd had any problems like this? How was your last summer? I feel these kids cycle a lot and repeat behaviors. Do you think enrolling her in a class or volunteering might help her? My dd is now in therapy 4 days a week and I hope that gives her some structure.

My dd also had a recent hosptial stay and I don't think she is too eager to tell me right now if she is safe or not. She asked to go but hated it once there. She had not been to the P hosiptal in well over a year so her memory of the place was very different from the reality. Maybe you could use the cards and when she felt Red then precautions could be put in place? Like removing her door... .or you sleeping with her for the night? I think the things that really sets my dd off is that she had no friends... .when she is alone and home in her room too much things can be very sad for her so I would look for ways for her to get out of the house. Is it too early to go back to school shopping? or out to the movies? or maybe start a project arount the house so she can help? does her room need painting? Maybe a make over would help her mood.

Hang in there... .I am going through a lot of the same as you. I have been rereading Valerie Porr's book Overcoming BPD and I find it so helpful. The therapy my dd is going to includes parents two the the four times so I am hopeful that will make a real difference.

[HealingSpirit]

Dear Elbry,

I'm so sorry you're going through this!  I know how hard it is to be "on alert" 24/7.  You're definitely not alone.  My DD17 is a cutter too, and I've never been able to catch her before an episode.  I don't even know all of what triggers her, but I'm slowly learning.

You've already had some great suggestions from the others here.  I LOVE Being Mindful's  Green, Yellow, Red color zone idea.  I'm going to talk with my DD to set that up too.

I wish I had something helpful to add, other than my understanding and support.  You know your DD best, and you have excellent instincts.  We're here to listen anytime.  Hang in there, and let us know how it goes .

[Elbry]

Thanks everyone for your responses and advice.  Right now things are ok.  I know some of her triggers.  Her friends are her biggest trigger by far that I have seen.  She has love/hate relationships with them and when it's hate she gets bullied.  The last time was on FB and DD handled it the best I have ever seen her.  They said things to her like "why don't you go live at the psych hospital you are there so much, isn't that your second home?" and "why don't you just go kill yourself".  Wonderful things to say to someone with her mental health problems.  She cried and was very upset but didn't cut or anything so she handled it well.  This is a cycle that has gone on with the same girls for about 18 months.  Now they want to be friends again and it was this girl that DD snuck off to be with the other day.

We did have a very good conversation Saturday night.  In the car of course, these conversations are always in the car .  We talked very frankly and openly about her on again off again relationship with these girls, one in particular.  DD wants to go to the County fair with her and I really don't want her around this girl at all, but I know I may not be able to stop her completely.  I told her my concerns that this girl's bullying in the past has triggered DD, and she has decompensated to the point of being suicidal.  DD told me that even though the bullying triggers her, it is still her decisions that take her there.  I know not having any friends really bothers her.  This girls is a Queen Bee and if DD is not hanging out with her, she loses the whole group.  There is also the problem that this girl is very unhealthy, she cuts, drinks, does drugs and dates men in their 20's (she is 15 like DD) and her mother lets all this go on in the home, even lets these men come over and spend the night.  This is why DD is not allowed over there and she knows it!

Another trigger for DD is her horrible self-esteem, especially her hair.  Back in February, she bleached her hair to the point it turned to mush and all her hair had to come off.  Her head was almost shaved.  It's a couple inches long now but she still hates it.  This was actually one of the major triggers of her last suicide attempt. 

I am not sleeping with her, she is too agitated and screams at me to get out and freaks, but I check on her throughout the night.  Now her mood is swinging and she is hyper and not sleeping.  There has always been a question of bi-polar, but she is not dx.  Both of her parents have Bi-polar d/o, her dad has bi-polar I and I have bi-polar II so her genetics are against her for that. I know there is so much crossover with that and BPD.  I'm going to try and get into her med manager today. 

[HealingSpirit]

Dear Elbry,

Ugh! I know what you mean about the Queen Bee roller coaster. My DD used to have friends like that too. It's soo hard to watch that go on.  Girls can be beyond mean.  They're downright cruel sometimes... .not what a sensitive BPD teen needs.

We did have a very good conversation Saturday night.  In the car of course, these conversations are always in the car .  We talked very frankly and openly about her on again off again relationship with these girls, one in particular.  DD wants to go to the County fair with her and I really don't want her around this girl at all, but I know I may not be able to stop her completely.  I told her my concerns that this girl's bullying in the past has triggered DD, and she has decompensated to the point of being suicidal.  DD told me that even though the bullying triggers her, it is still her decisions that take her there.

This sounds like cause for celebration! She sounds like she is starting to take some responsibility, which puts her way ahead of the game.

And she is so lucky to have your support and intimate understanding of bipolar.  I suspect my DD has bipolar tendencies in addition to BPD, but it's hard to know, as I do not have either condition.  I leave that up to the therapist.  But it is hard when they can't sleep, which certainly affects their mood all day. 

One last thing about her hair.  The poor thing! Can you get her some cute hats (or even a wig) to wear in the interim until it grows back?  My DD wears awful beanies all the time, even though she has all her hair. They're very popular among teens. If your DD wore whatever the teens in your area are wearing on their heads, no one could see her hair. Thank God it's summer, so hats make sense anyway.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Glad to hear things are going well at the moment.

We don't allow FB at our house. I realize DD can access it at other places, but at our home it's a no go.

I actually just found out recently that DD has been accessing it while at school at the RTC, and I just now sent the CM a message asking that it be blocked on whatever PC she is accessing. It's spells nothing but trouble for kids like my DD.

[Elbry]

I couldn't sleep last night and I was up at 2 am and on Facebook.  Some little ****** posted a "report card" on my DD's wall and graded her from A-F on everything from her looks, her hair, her clothes, her personal style, personality, wanna hang out etc. etc.  He gave her almost all F's with a few C's.  Nothing better than a C. I am so angry and hurt for her!  How horrible to do that to someone.  I barely caught it, she deleted it from her FB and it makes me wonder how many other things go on that I miss because she is able to delete them before I see them.  Perhaps you are right Ray, perhaps FB should be off limits.  This is just down right bullying.

[jellibeans]

elbry

That is bullying... .you could take a screen shot of the post and report that to her school or police. I am not sure what state you live in but here in Texas that is very much a crime and I would not heistate reporting it.

[HealingSpirit]

Hi Elbry,

I'm so sorry you're having trouble sleeping.  I know it's nearly impossible to sleep when you're worried about your DD.  BTDT! 

I agree with Jellibeans that you could report this bullying to her school, or even to the police.  It's heartbreaking to see our DD's suffer at the hands of their peers.  Do you think there is some way you might get your DD to cooperate in gathering proof to turn in these bullies? 

Also, I'm curious... .  How well does it work for those of you who limit or prevent FB use in your home?  What do you do to stop your teens from posting inappropriate stuff?

We went through FB hell when my DD was 13-14.  Not only was she electronically bullied, she was extremely depressed at the time so she posted EVERYTHING that was miserable about her life, like posting her diary.  (Her public vulnerability made her an easy target for bullying, but we were never successful in getting her to understand this.)  She's quite an artist too, so she posted very graphic cartoons she had drawn (i.e. sketches of ripping the heart out of a teddy bear, or squishing someone's heart in her hand, drawings of scratching her skin open, and some really dark poetry she'd written.)  If she hadn't "friended" me (so I could keep an electronic "eye" on her and the things her friends were posting), I would never have seen her inappropriate posts.  Her T, DH and I all talked to her (at different times) about why this was inappropriate.  Our collective message sank in, and she took down all the inappropriate things at my first request.

I've always tried to make sure I have access to her electronic activity... .just so I know what she's up to.  I was afraid if I prevented her from using FB, or forbade her from using social media, she would just go behind my back.  How do you all prevent this?  These times we live in are so hard with instant information at our fingertips and immediate access to everything and everyone!

[Elbry]

I am also wondering how successful people are in limiting things like FB.  I have not had much success with that in the past.  There are just so many ways to get to it.  Phones, library, other people's computer's.  I thought it was better for her to have a FB that I was a friend of than for her to have a secret one I knew nothing about.  Of course, she may still have secret ones for all I know.  I hate being so suspicious and untrusting. 

As far reporting the bullying, I have been down that road in the past.  When she first started refusing to go to school in the 8th grade we suspected bullying and she denied it.  She STILL denies it even though little bits of the truth have come out here and there about girls bullying her.  I also have seen apologies from some of these girls written to her on FB where they apologize for bullying her so I know it went on.   

She had a boyfriend when she was 14 and he was a obsessive and controlling.  When she broke up with him he went nuts.  Called her over 140 times in a 10 hr period, was leaving msgs on FB, was threatening to kill himself, kill her on and on.  Some girls that were mutual friends got involved and were harassing her as well for breaking up with him.  We went to the police.  Went right in to the station to complain and they gave us the brush off.  Told me there was nothing they could do about bullying on social media, it goes on all the time.  They told me I could change her number, but that it wouldn't do any good someone was bound to give it to him again and that she should just stay off FB for awhile.  I asked about a Protection from Abuse order and they said no Judge around here would give that to me based on phone calls and FB, it was just kids being kids.  The only thing they did was agree to go have a talk with him because he was on probation and they were going to tell him to leave her alone but they said that's all they could do.  I tell you guys all that to say that I have ZERO hope of getting anywhere with the authorities over FB bullying around this town.  It's a shame.

The good news is she has been fairly stable this week.  She is sleeping again, and has not had any meltdowns in a few days.  She asked to go to the fair with her on again friend.  Giving me all kinds of reassurances.  I said I have to think long and hard about it.  Then yesterday, my oldest daughter saw this friend out with a supposed "ex bf" and his daughter.  He is like 24 or 25 and this young girl is 15. My DD was told my the friend she is no longer with this man, at least that is what I was told.  One of my biggest concerns with DD being around this girl is the constant exposure to these predators and this girls mother allows it!  Ugg!

[pessim-optimist]

I am so sorry for all the things that your dd is going through with her "friends", Elbry.

The bullying is appalling, and I wouldn't be surprised if a healthy teenager became suicidal... .they are so vulnerable and emotional at this age. I really admire the resilience of your dd in the face of that kind of behavior over time.

Do you think that you would have more success if you took the FB bullying to she school authorities? Some schools have strict anti-bullying policies and take action in such cases.

She asked to go to the fair with her on again friend.  Giving me all kinds of reassurances.  I said I have to think long and hard about it.

One of my biggest concerns with DD being around this girl is the constant exposure to these predators and this girls mother allows it!  Ugg!

I hear you... .You know your dd best, and so you know if she would be able to stand her ground of give in to please others with all kinds of inappropriate or dangerous activities.

Have you tried asking her what she thinks about these older guys? For example - what does she think about the laws against older guys having sex with young girls?

She's been bullied before - what's her take on a possible situation of being put on the spot and/or dared to do something illegal or unhealthy (doing drugs, having sex with a random guy)?

I know, many members might think I am dreaming (and partly, I am). However, there have been a few situations where I have treated my SD as incompetent, and she lived up to the expectation. There have been some situations, where I have treated as competent, and she rose to the occasion.

What I am trying to say is: what would we do/say in these situations, if our kids were healthy?

And the next question is: Is there a good reason to deprive our BPD kids of these conversations? If not, great. If so, what's the alternative conversation to have?

[Elbry]

The school has tried to help me with the bullying but when we sit down and talk about it DD always denies it vehemently.  The thing I saw on FB she took down immediately, it's fortunate I even caught a glimpse of it. When I asked her about it, her response was that it was nothing and that I was making a big deal out of it. 

As far as what she thinks of the older guys, she thinks it's disgusting and thinks they are pedophiles.  She has asked me to report it to the authorities before in the hopes of getting her friend some help bc the girls mother is clueless.  As far as I know, DD has not had anything to do with these older men herself, but I still don't want her exposed to them. 

There is however, a history of binge drinking and drug use with her friends.  DD has also been sexually active with multiple partners.  All her age as far as I know.  But not all safe.  And who's to say what might happen if she gets over there and gets drinking and smoking, judgement goes right out the window, and she has also had blackouts from drinking.  Who knows what goes on during those?  She may get taken advantage of. 

She is not likely to be drinking or smoking at the fair.  They are very likely to meet up with boys/men.  What would I do if she were healthy?  That is a very good question.  I have thought on that and I don't think it matters in this situation.  I would do the same either way.  I want her safe.  This situation is probably more a teenage thing than a BPD thing.  I do have these conversations with her when she is calm and in a good place we talk about lots of things.  Her and her sisters tell me things sometimes that make me want to stick my fingers in my ears and yell LALALALALALA.  What has been heard, can not be unheard. 

[HealingSpirit]

Her and her sisters tell me things sometimes that make me want to stick my fingers in my ears and yell LALALALALALA.  What has been heard, can not be unheard. 

Elbry,

ROFL!  You have a great sense of humor.  You made me laugh.  Too funny, because it's so true.

[pessim-optimist]

Hm, I see what you are saying - Good on the older guys front, not so good on the rest of the topics.

Great to hear you have a good r/s with her and talk about things when all is calm. Keeping them safe is not easy, is it.