what happens when pwBPD starts mirroring you?

[FirstSteps]

I think this probably has an obvious answer.  But my UPBDw has started mirroring all of my techniques back at me - though without any of the empathy.

So regardless if I'm using SET or the Yale method or whatever - she just pushes her "truth" back at me. 

I might say "I want to have respectful conversations, and I want to connect with daily checkins" or something like that.  Then she says "I want to have in depth conversations and I want to talk everything out."  Which means hours and hours, of course.

I get that I should just stick to my calm guns, so to speak.  And I do.  But it feels terribly ineffective, and it goes right to all my weak spots and guilt - I'm not being fair, I have to be fair, I have to respect her process too, etc.

It all has a catastrophic feeling too - like if I say no, the marriage is over and the family broken.  I've thought a lot about this - as I definitely can have catastrophic thinking.  But I think it's actually true in this case.  We're on the edge, and if I say "I don't want to talk to you the way you say you need" it will explode.  Last weekend, she even tried and failed to go to a hotel.

It would be easier if she wasn't coherent or super immature in the arguments.  But even though she has emotionally dysregulated, I'm still crushed either in the arguments or my attempts to stay calm in them.

We're now at a point where she says she wants to do things together this weekend "if we can talk it through."  This is a trap.  I am considering saying I actually don't want to do things together, which I've never done.  I've instead been staying calm and hoping she regulates.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

I might say "I want to have respectful conversations, and I want to connect with daily checkins" or something like that.  Then she says "I want to have in depth conversations and I want to talk everything out."  Which means hours and hours, of course.


This sounds dreadful. How about just doing something mindless for fun together?

[Bara]

This is tough. I went through this...

First, you have to accept that you are never going to "win" in terms of talking it out. It's not worth the effort to attempt to navigate the maze. Easier said than done, but the first step for me was knowing that the fight can not be resolved in the moment. One technique is to suggest writing it out. This can help to not allow things to escalate or go on for long periods of time.

Limits are important. It is normal to suggest doing something on your own for the weekend. You should be able to do that. For me the fear was trying to justify time to myself. Here is the thing... you don't have to justify time to yourself. It is normal for a human to want to have personal time. That is it... it is not about anyone else but you. Time for self care is objectively a good thing. If your partner doesn't agree, then this may be an unhealthy relationship. Self care can be many things, don't be stigmatized. Going to the batting cage and getting a sandwich is just as good as a bubble bath and a book.

Maybe someone can help with a link, but look up FOG. Fear, obligation, guilt. If you aren't doing self care because you are in a FOG, that's probably hard on your mental and emotional well being.

Finally, you could consider doing your own system of checkins, regardless if they agree or not. You can simply say, "I enjoy checking in with you and sharing where I'm at each day. Then just do it. Maybe a text message on your way home, or just asking for 5 min when you walk in the door. YOU check in. She will likely follow suit. Anyway, set your own limits and take positive action to get what you need. Asking won't always get you there.

[Rev]

I'm with Cat on this one. The more you engage the worse it will get - whether that's directly through conversation or indirectly through trying to figure her out

While this is exceptionally difficult, I really think this is about timing. It requires much patience on your part.

Cats suggestion in of itself would, in theory, help her regulate.

Rev

[Rev]

This is tough. I went through this...

First, you have to accept that you are never going to "win" in terms of talking it out. Ite's not worth the effort to attempt to navigate the maze.

Limits are important. It is normal to suggest doing something on your own for the weekend. You should be able to do that. For me the fear was trying to justify time to myself. Here is the thing... you don't have to justify time to yourself. It is normal for a human to want to have personal time. That is it... it is not about anyone else but you. Time for self care is objectively a good thing. If your partner doesn't agree, then this may be an unhealthy relationship. Self care can be many things, don't be stigmatized. Going to the batting cage and getting a sandwich is just as good as a bubble bath and a book.

Anyway, set your own limits and take positive action to get what you need. Asking won't always get you there.

Love this too.

[FirstSteps]

Thank you to all.  I agree with Cat.  And as it happened, I just threw out bowling as something we could do yesterday, and she went with it and loved it. 

I love the writing it out idea too.  And controlling the check in.  And, of course, just doing it regardless of her reaction.  I've read a little about FOG and it's definitely an issue for me - more obligation maybe than fear and guilt?  Though those are there too.

This is hard because she is changing for the better.  Today we took a long walk and it was mostly intense but either about Ukraine or us individually.  We checked in and it went well. Then at the end, I was told I'm terrible at self care and she asked exasperatedly if I needed it spelled out.

I have mixed feelings about this.  I of course am not great at self care.  And I do need it spelled out.  But this kind of "rescuing" on her part is in direct conflict to her dysregulated messages about the talking it out and how me leaving any conversation is abandoning her. 

There is also the issue of false equivalence.  Again, she's having real insight into how she works.  It's super hopeful and she's using all kinds of DBT language and talking about her immature brain.  But it seems to require that I am also immature and equally unable to regulate.  And while I am owning my issues deeply within myself, this is a hard pill to swallow.  I think this gets to something else I'll bring up next week on whether I really can or want to be with someone who is so emotionally inconsistent (what she herself calls disabled).

So I'm processing.  But it's really good to hear from an external perspective that it's awful.  My T is also appalled by it.  I will keep trying to aim for more fun on top of my own self care.

[Bara]

Oh wow. I feel this response in my heart. I feel like I have been where you are... the confusion... feeling like you need to be something you aren't in order to have a voice in the conversation. I hope you can stay authentic to yourself and do what is right for your own mental and emotional well being.

In my situation I have maintained the limit that I may leave a conversation if I wish and I will do so respectfully if I'm feeling overwhelmed.
This is a huge red flag to me:

But this kind of "rescuing" on her part is in direct conflict to her dysregulated messages about the talking it out and how me leaving any conversation is abandoning her.

Setting limits helps mitigate the "you just walk away" accusations. You must always have the strength to be respectful in your execution. If you set yourself up with limits before you need to enforce them, it will limit the potential triggers to your partner when you actually do what you say you are going to and leave the conversation.

If you are not equipped to be in a relationship with "someone who is so emotionally inconsistent (what she herself calls disabled)." then you are allowed to have that limit. You are not a bad person for not wanting to be with someone. Please read Walking on Eggshells audio/book. Your situation sounds similar to what I was in a year ago, and this book was huge in helping me gain perspective.


A note on Obligation - There is such thing as healthy obligation. I believe that you are able to do something because of obligation that is objectively not fun but also not harmful to anyone. e.g. clearing the table after dinner. Where it gets fuzzy is when you feel obligated to do something that you feel is out of character for yourself. It can start small and before you know it you are sacrificing your values in order to avoid a "blowup". When you feel obligated, ask yourself "why?"... is it because someone did something kind and you want to pay it forward? That's probably fine. Is it because you are worried someone will be angry with you? That's probably not ok. Of course context and situations will be unique, but in the end you must stay true to your values. If your loved one doesn't like that, then they don't like you. Do not sacrifice your values to get someone to like you. This is a very hard lesson to embody, but very important for your mental health.

[Cat Familiar]

Do not sacrifice your values to get someone to like you.