uBPD Mother Passed Away

[Methuen]

I haven't been here for a while.  I think a part of the reason for that was emotional exhaustion, lack of energy, and another part was that uBPD mom (89yrs) finally got into assisted living (after 6 years of waiting for her to agree/consent, and then work her way through a waiting list). The relief after helping her move to AL gave me space to do a few other things (I used to be on here hours a day sometimes trying to learn and make sense of her, and learn strategies to grow).

What follows is a bit of a reflective piece following mom's passing, and because this site sustained me for many years once I found it.  I got a lot of support here, and learned so much. It was a real difference maker to find a community that understood, and I was a frequent poster. While the posters on here have changed since I started (and dropped off), I see patterns with the current problems and stories. With BPD, the wheels on the bus just keep going round and round. It's a terrible illness that has devasting impact on relationships, and causes distress for everyone.  What follows is just a few thoughts and observations since mom passed in January.

Assisted living didn't change the BPD, but it still made an enormous difference in our life.  They were responsible for her instead of me/H. That was intense relief. In the beginning there was a honeymoon period which wore off quickly for her, and soon her emotional needs and demands were as before.  We still had to take her to all her medical and dental appointments, do her shopping, and pick up the phone for every little difficulty she had (and contrived crisis), but the work load was still diminished although remaining significant. My observation is that nothing changed with her.  Still negative.  Still chaotic.  Still needy.  Still demanding. But the relief for us was that professionals could now handle some of it (daily needs, connectivity, giving her meds), and we could leave town and know that she was taken care of, and not lying on the floor of her house injured or even dead.  She used to always rage that if we loved her, we wouldn't go away and leave her.  It was awful.  One time we were 2000 km away in a campsite, and she would text we had to come home and help her because her phone wasn't working.  She was serious.

So glad those days are gone.  Looking back, there is some years of bad stuff that I don't know how we survived (H and I).  I really don't.  I live in a small town where everybody knows everybody, and everybody thought she was wonderful.  But she only showed those people her good parts.  As the only daughter, there was an expectation "to take good care of her".

Mom went into hospital in the New Year (had stopped eating and taking her meds), went palliative a few days later, and passed away a few days after that. She had so many complex health problems. She was a fighter in every respect, including fighting death! She had her family (me, H, D, S-in law, S) with her, and once she went palliative, despite the relationship, I stayed with her at the hospital and asked for a chair-bed for nights.  That was a journey I hope fades from my memory.  I did it for her, but probably mostly for myself. I am weary of feeling guilt, and wanted to know I had done everything I could.  I tried so hard to be a good daughter (and I was), but with her BPD illness, failure was the only option (as she saw it).

She never once said thank you, or sorry. I shared nice memories, said nice things, but not surprisingly, even at end of life there was no need on her part to resolve anything. I suppose it's magical thinking to hope that at end of life, she could say anything that would give me something positive to hang onto for the rest of my life.

A dear friend lost her mother about 8 months ago, and continues to grieve although the grief is slowly lessening.  When mom passed, I continued to grieve the mother I never had, instead of the one I lost.  Can I really grieve the one I lost? My grief is profound, but so so complicated. There are a few good memories, and some funny ones too.  It's just messy.  I think maybe that's what someone meant when they said "it doesn't get better after they die".  Some things change: the chaos and interruptions stop, the drama episodes end, the physical and emotional demands stop, the rages and abuse ends, but remarkably it's like the sensations and feelings from a lifetime of those behaviors, lives on in my body.  My nervous system hasn't recognized her passing.  My body aches and problems haven't either. They're with me for the rest of my life.  And neither has my memory, or ability to sleep realized that she's passed. She's still everywhere.  I've been struggling with depressive-like symptoms (some days I am a hot mess).  My new (young) doctor said "no" to sleeping aids because he labelled it grief.  He actually said "my grief was an indication of how close my relationship to my mother was".  I just looked at him.  He is young.  It was an Ygritte moment when she says "You know nothing Jon Snow". My brain wanted to inform him that doctors should be asking questions of their patients to learn what is really going on instead of making assumptions filled with bias (from their own lived experience) but I kept my mouth shut.  Where I live, nearly half of the population isn't lucky enough to have a family doctor. 

I'm still not sleeping, and she passed over 2 months ago.

I am retiring from my most demanding part-time retirement job (meaning I came out of retirement to work 2 part time jobs which gave me a boundary from my mother's demands and expectations and rages).  I am going to transition back to full time retirement one part-time job at a time, if that makes sense. If it sounds crazy, it probably is. The lengths we go to in order to navigate our family member with BPD are extreme.

I am mom's executor, so I've already put probably hundreds of hours into that.  In that way, she's still all around me (paperwork and processes everywhere at home), and I haven't been able to move on.  It's impossible to articulate how much work and time is involved in being an executor (at least where I live).

Her memorial service is happening in May.  Maybe once that is over, I will be able to move on a bit, because having to honour all the good parts of her will be behind me.

A lifetime friend told me today that in her mind, she's always seen me as a spunky, energetic, engaged person, and for a while now that spark has been gone.  I looked at her and said one word: defeated.

She is a dear friend and replied by saying all the right things.  She's wonderful.  But it was interesting to hear the perspective from someone who knows me. I can't "see" myself, but she described it, and I summed up her description in one single word.

After work yesterday, a colleague came to check in on me.  Someone caring about me just triggers me, because that's always what I wanted from my mum.  Mom was just so narcissistic that her self-absorption demanded all caring be for her at her whim.  There was nothing left for her child (I was an "only"). Remarkably, she could care about other people, just not family members. So this colleague coming to check in just flooded me with sadness and the waterworks opened up.  Just brutal. Such a vulnerable feeling. It's a part-time job that I love because of the nature of the work (my career- but in a very part-time capacity), but it's demanding, takes a lot of energy, and is physically hard on my body, so it is time to let go.  That is another loss. 

Pivoting away from "loss", what leaving the work will give me is freedom and space to do some things on my bucket list.  I have a long bucket list, so now I have to work on getting excited about that and moving forward, instead of looking back. It's so easy to focus on the loss and trauma (especially during grief), but it's important to look forward too, and I just realized I have to do that while writing this.

But I recognize it is hard to get excited when the body is full of so much trauma. I have been overwhelmed by problems, and I am weary.  It's a process to feel better, and doesn't just magically happen when they die.  But I want to start feeling myself again, and am hopeful that I will be able to find that.  It's been a while.  The next thing to work on.  Always something more to work on.

Just my observations of my experience after mother passed.  When others used to post that their mother had passed, I always wondered what that experience would be like.

 

[Mutt]

Methuen,

Thank you for sharing this. Your post captures something many people here wonder about but rarely hear described so honestly.

When a parent with BPD dies, things don’t resolve neatly. The chaos may stop, but the imprint of those dynamics doesn’t just disappear. After years of living in that environment, it makes sense that the nervous system doesn’t simply switch off.

Your line about grieving the mother you never had rather than the one you lost really stood out to me. That kind of grief is complicated. It can include loss, relief, exhaustion, and unfinished hopes all tangled together.

What also stood out is that even at the end, you still showed up. Sitting with her in the hospital, staying overnight, making sure you had done everything you could. That says a lot about the kind of daughter you were, regardless of whether she could acknowledge it.

And your doctor’s comment about grief meaning you must have had a close relationship… that’s a common misunderstanding from people who haven’t lived this experience. The grief often comes from a lifetime of trying.

Two months is not very long after a lifetime of what you went through.

Thank you for coming back and sharing where you are.

— Mutt

[Notwendy]

I did it for her, but probably mostly for myself. I am weary of feeling guilt, and wanted to know I had done everything I could.  I tried so hard to be a good daughter (and I was), but with her BPD illness, failure was the only option (as she saw it).

She never once said thank you, or sorry. I shared nice memories, said nice things, but not surprisingly, even at end of life there was no need on her part to resolve anything. I suppose it's magical thinking to hope that at end of life, she could say anything that would give me something positive to hang onto for the rest of my life.

When mom passed, I continued to grieve the mother I never had, instead of the one I lost.  Can I really grieve the one I lost? My grief is profound, but so so complicated.

I've been thinking about you and wondered how you are doing. First, condolences on the loss of your mother. These were words that sounded odd to me when people who didn't understand said them. I know they were well meaning, but their context was different. I think those of us here understand that loss too. It's a loss, and that messy, complicated grief that is a unique experience. I think a lonely one too.

I had that magical thinking too. I think, even if the relationship is difficult, even if we understand the disorder- cognitively- emotionally there's still a bit of hope. I think that's a part of what kept us attached- the hope, even if it's only
a tiny bit.  I think this is part of the loss and the grief.

I went to counseling after my mother passed, to help me through that. Two months is still a short time. I was still in a heightened state of shock, fear, weird grief. To give you some hope- it's been about a year, it feels more settled.

Sending you hugs.

[GaGrl]

I, too, have been thinking of you and wondering how you were doing.

I don't think my mother fully felt free until her BPD/NPD step-mother died, even though she had gone very LC after my grandfather died. Since the age of six, my mother had been controlled, mistreated, and emotionally abused by this woman who others in the community thought was an angel for caring for this child whose mother had died so young. Family members knew better, knew the truth.

And it does complicate an already difficult situation to be an "only, " as my mom was, and as I am.

My mom has been gone almost five years now. I still have grief pangs. And I still have regrets that her few BPD- like traits kept us from having the mother-daughter relationship we should have had.

I too did grief counseling, both when my sister died and shortly after my mother died. It helped me past the worst of it.

Give yourself Grace and Time.
 

[zachira]

I had been wondering how you were doing. For the first time in your life, you have full permission to grieve the lifelong loss of having a mother with BPD, who was never able to show any kind of appreciation for the loving kind daughter she had no matter what you did for her. We cannot fully grieve the loss of a parent who abused us instead of giving their child the unconditional love that every child deserves when that parent is still a part of our lives, and we never know when the next round of abuse is coming. Instead of feeling relief after the death of an abusive parent, we can feel overwhelmed because now it is safe to feel all the feelings about how the parent mistreated us during a life time of abuse. When we have a lifelong loss, it can help to set aside specific times to grieve, sometimes once a day and then as time moves on perhaps not so often while still setting aside these times when we need to do so.

My mother with BPD has been dead for several years now. I still have aha moments when I suddenly realize how I am still affected by all the abuse I have endured and continue to endure because of all the people who support the toxic family narratives. It does hurt when other people believe that all mothers should be viewed as gods and  assume that when our mother dies we have a loving relationship to grieve. Many years ago, I had a coworker whose mother was a terrible person. When her mother died, she told the entire staff, many of whom who were aware of how badly her mother had treated her, that she did not want to receive any condolences.

Hugs to your Methuen. Thank you for reaching out and helping other members. I appreciate all your kindness in responding to my posts. I hope you are soon feeling better.

[CC43]

Methuen,

I'm so sorry for all your struggles, grief and stress which is probably manifesting in your body after all these years.  I can relate a little bit, as I have an adult BPD stepdaughter, but since's she's not my blood relative and I didn't grow up with her, it's not the same thing.  I had a mostly "normal" childhood, with stable and functional parents, and I can't image what it would be like not growing up with that.

I can relate though to the ongoing stress of dealing with BPD, as well as being an executor.  I'm executor for my dad, who passed a couple of years ago, and it continues to generate a lot of work and added stress.  I'm lucky that I can handle it for the most part, though sometimes I can't help but feel a little resentful and frustrated with the process.  I probably do something related to the estate and lingering affairs every weekday, though I'm sure to take a break on weekends.

Anyway, like you, I had lingering, likely stress-induced health issues around the time of my father's death, while simultaneously dealing with near-peak dysfunction with my BPD stepdaughter--multiple suicide attempts and hospital stays, plus living with her while she refused to work on herself.   As you know, the family dynamic can become extremely strained amidst BPD dysfunction, and my husband was taking out his frustrations primarily on me.  Thus during the last weeks of my father's life and the subsequent funeral, my husband acted out and "punished" me, exactly when I needed his support most.  So adding to the stress was the realization that I couldn't rely on my husband when I needed him to be supportive (or merely non-needy).  I was stressed out, worn down and had bouts of insomnia too.  I developed a moderate, all-over itchy rash which prevented me from sleeping more than an hour at a time.  I lost some weight without trying.  Basically it took me six months to overcome the worst of the rash, but I still wasn't sleeping right.  I had this deal with myself that if I got out of bed five times in the night, and it was still only 4 am, I'd take a Benadryl or an ibuprofen to take the edge off the itchiness/soreness, which seemed to provide some temporary relief from discomfort.  But if it was 5 am, I'd just give up and start my day.  It took almost two years to get back to feeling like my old self, and sleep most of the night (sort of).

I know I still feel stressed sometimes, as I get some achiness, such as from clenching my teeth, as well as neck and back soreness.  For me, daily stretching has helped with that.  Daily stretching was my resolution for 2026, and I think it has been a big help.  Another habit I started to help combat my dry, itchy skin and rashes was to drink two full cups of water when I wake up, plus another two full cups in the afternoon.  I found that drinking extra water also helped me feel more like my usual self.  As an added benefit, I'm less prone to headaches, too.  In addition, I was sure to go to the doctor, get a blood panel and follow the doctor's recommendations.  Like you, I feel that doctors can seem dismissive sometimes, but I don't really blame them because sometimes the body is a mystery, and there can be compounding factors.  Sometimes I think it's about trial and error.  One doctor wanted to prescribe me sleeping pills, and I said no, the problem was unrelenting itchiness, I need to treat that--is it underactive thyroid?  low-level dehydration?  allergies?   stress?  gluten sensitivity?  low vitamin D?  all of the above?  I think it might be a combination of multiple factors.

I hope you give yourself some grace and some time to process your feelings and get on a path towards healing.  For what it's worth, you have this community of friends.  It sounds like you have close friends, too, and they can bring some comfort.  Most of all, know that you did your best, and that's all anybody can do.  I think your mom was extremely lucky to have you as a daughter, even if she didn't know how to show it.

[Methuen]

Reading your replies has touched me.  Reading that you were thinking of me just means so much, and is so helpful in the grieving process.  It really is a family here.  We care about and support each other.  What a special gift. 

Reading that you've been thinking of me...both surprises and warms me...especially when juxtaposed with a mother that I don't think had the capacity to think of me much ever. 

By the time she went into assisted living, I was in survival mode.  Conserving emotional energy.  My tank had been empty for years (pretty much the 6 years I was on this board).  AL was a godsend because H and I didn't have that 24/7 responsibility for her - an irrational and unreasonable person.

She was such a fighter.  I am not.  When the ambulance was called by AL, all 5 of us (H and I and her grandchildren) were there as it was over Christmas (we were together).  When the paramedics arrived, she refused to go. They told me they couldn't force her to go.  But they quickly sized up the situation by talking to AL staff and us, (she was so small in the bed she just looked like another wrinkle in the sheets, looked like she was dying, wasn't eating, was refusing her meds, and showing signs of dehydration), and said they would have to call in the police to assist.  I was in shock and disbelief. How much crazier and worse can it get?  My mother and her decisions creating unfathomable chaos. I was in despair. (This is the same woman who refused home care to give her eye drops and then went blind in the eye.) In the end, with 2 paramedics, her family and AL staff all at a loss, it was her GC grandson (30) who cajoled her into agreeing. She negotiated (more demanded) from the paramedics that he would ride with her (emotional caretaker).  The whole scene probably lasted 45 min once the paramedics arrived. They had been on the phone with their doctor about the situation and it was the Dr who said the police needed to be involved.  I still shake my head at what a fighter she was - right to the end.  It didn't matter the situation or the event or the stage of her life.  She made everything difficult for everyone if something didn't fit with her needs or ideas.

Once she went into AL (8 months before she passed), there was relief for H and I, but there was also still a lot of work and time (so many appointments, task maintenance, duty visits).  Now that she's passed, she's physically still all around me with all the work (and paperwork) involved in being executor.  The grief is heavy.

Somehow I still cared for her.  That is the kicker.  If I had not loved/cared for her, it wouldn't hurt so much that she was so mean and difficult. I wouldn't feel so messed up.  If I hadn't loved her, I wouldn't have showed up for her right to the end. 

Still, I spent the last 5 years figuring out how to protect myself by staying as LC as possible under the circumstances.  It was H who also paid a price as he stepped up.  But he too had his limits.  Ultimately, it wasn't until together we wrote a letter and stated we couldn't care for her any more, that she got into AL.  Then it happened quickly. 

I think there is something not right about all that.  People and families shouldn't have to get to that point before help is made available.

With mom, I think her problems come down to attachment.  I had attachment to her. Children growing up in a family (and all humans) are social and crave attachment.  But she had attachment to no one (even though she was social and liked to be the center of attention).  That lack of real attachment allowed her to hurt people and not care (or not care enough to change).  That's my theory.  I'd be very interested to hear others weigh in on this. How can a person hurt others (especially their own children) and not care?  There is a big story about her childhood and the family she grew up in.  It was damaging. I think parts of her brain never got wired up. I feel like she damaged me.  But I acknowledge a challenge, and constantly work on myself to grow, and she refused to acknowledge and do the work.  She didn't care about the wake of destruction in her relationships (siblings, friends, co-workers, husband, daughter-me) or not enough to look inward and do something about it.

I've spent my life caring for people.  Made a career out of it.  What irony.  Never stopped caring for her, but paid the price.  When love hurts.

I guess that was a bit of a rant. I "process" best when I write. I hope one day I can feel better.  And thanks for pointing out that 2 months is not a very long time.  I needed to hear that.

Thanks everyone for your replies.  They all made such a difference.

[CC43]

With mom, I think her problems come down to attachment. . . . That lack of real attachment allowed her to hurt people and not care (or not care enough to change).  That's my theory.  I'd be very interested to hear others weigh in on this. How can a person hurt others (especially their own children) and not care?

Hi Methuen,

I can relate to trying to make sense of BPD behaviors which seem bizarre and downright ugly sometimes.  I think that's why I come here for the most part.  I think you're right about the observation that the core of BPD relates to dysfunction in close relationships, where attachments/bonds seem constantly strained, even fractured.  A person with BPD tends to have totally unrealistic expectations of others--she demands too much devotion, service, attention and sacrifice from others.  Since her demands are unrealistic, she feels constantly aggrieved, upset, disappointed, slighted, bossed around, whatever.  At the smallest indication of "abandonment"--for example, you have to end a visit with her because you need to get home, make dinner and go to bed early because you have an appointment first thing the next morning--her over-the-top emotions take over.  I think it comes down to negative thinking patterns, intolerance of distress and total impulsivity that induce her to lash out, usually at the very people who are doing everything in their power to please her.

I suspect that, deep down, she knows she's being unfair and mean, but her emotions are simply too overwhelming, and she's too impulsive.  She never learned how to calm herself down and think before unleashing her knee-jerk reactions.  She's upset, and in that moment she is compelled to let out her negative emotional energy, not unlike a toddler who is upset about getting a blue cup instead of a red one.  She just doesn't care if she makes a scene and hurts you in the process--all that matters is her own pain, frustration and powerlessness in the moment.  Maybe, once she has calmed down, she might regret what she did.  But that's when I think the "magical thinking" and "victim mindset" take over, and she re-interprets events to make herself out to be a victim.  When she's the victim, you're invariably the offending party, which always puts you on the defensive.  And then you go about walking on eggshells, lest you provoke another outburst, all the while wondering why she's perpetually displeased, despite going above and beyond to try to make her happy.  And then you wonder, why she's all take and you're all give, it's just not balanced, let alone natural, especially in the context of a mother-daughter relationship, where conventionally the mom is supposed to nurture the child, not the other way around.  More than anything you want to love her, and yet her behavior is terribly unattractive, as well as harmful to you, and this cognitive dissonance is utterly confusing.  You too crave closeness, but she makes it too painful for you.  It's no wonder you're in distress.

Though my situation isn't exactly the same, I can relate to wanting desperately to love and support a family member, only to encounter ugly behavior from her.  How do I love someone who takes and takes, all the while blaming me and hurling venom my way?  Well I think I can take the venom, because I know that it's not about me, it's BPD.  But what's harder for me to take is how cruel she is to my husband and the rest of the family.  How do I try to reconcile preserving the integrity of the entire family?  Do I "defend" her actions and say, it's not her fault, it's BPD, just ignore it?  Do I say, she doesn't mean any of the hurtful things she is saying and doing, even after years of therapy?  At what point is an adult responsible for herself, even if she has mental illness?  I mean, BPD can't be an excuse for all negative behaviors, can it?  To say that BPD is at fault (and not the person) is like giving up, isn't it?  On these boards I sometimes see the concept of "radical acceptance," but does that mean accepting that a person with BPD is basically mean-spirited and unable to control themselves ever, and it's not possible to have a healthy "attachment" with them?  Honestly it's confusing to know what to do, let alone what to think.  And then I wonder, what is love to a pwBPD?  Will she ever have a meaningful relationship/"attachment"?  Or maybe it would be better to live alone?  I just don't know.

[Notwendy]

I am glad we can be of support to each other.

A nurse coordinator had called me to inform me that BPD mother had gone to emergency. She got admitted. I called the hospital but it was hard to know what was going on. Eventually, I could tell she wasn't getting any better. We got in the car and went as soon as we could. When we got there, we could see she was near the end.

I am glad we got there when we did.

The next several days were doing what needed to be done -moving her belongings from the AL, planning the funeral.

I can relate to the emotions of handling things. There was so much fear. I was afraid of everyone connected to her- even when there was no logical reason to be afraid.

[zachira]

PSI is the only place I know where members understand the immediate and long term impacts of having a mother with BPD. The fact that we are still able to yearn for having a loving mother and still feel wounded for not having one, shows we are capable of love and caring, something our mothers were never able to do. Somehow we were lucky in that we did not end up being like our mothers. The grief of losing our hope of never having our mother show that she genuinely loves and appreciates her child, does not go away after she passes away, as there is a finality to the fact that we will never have ever had a loving mother.

I grieve the loss of my mother every day in the sense that I realize how I am different in ways I wish I could change. I am constantly dealing with the traumatic reenactments, though I have greatly improved over time and with distance from my mother and disordered family members. I have accepted that the grief will never end though with time, I am less overwhelmed by all the loss.

I admire the courage and decency of the members on PSI to face and do the work of understanding the long term life time impacts of having a mother with BPD. There are so many people out there who live their whole lives without realizing how they have been impacted by having severely disordered family members.

[zachira]

Methuen,
You are a fighter in ways your mother could never be. You have stayed true to your values and doing what you felt was right. I hope you can one day look back and give yourself credit for how you treated your mother, how you never lowered yourself to her level no matter how badly she behaved.

[Notwendy]

Hi Methuen,

She just doesn't care if she makes a scene and hurts you in the process--all that matters is her own pain, frustration and powerlessness in the moment.  Maybe, once she has calmed down, she might regret what she did.  But that's when I think the "magical thinking" and "victim mindset" take over, and she re-interprets events to make herself out to be a victim.  When she's the victim, you're invariably the offending party, which always puts you on the defensive. 

And then you go about walking on eggshells, lest you provoke another outburst, all the while wondering why she's perpetually displeased, despite going above and beyond to try to make her happy.  And then you wonder, why she's all take and you're all give, it's just not balanced, let alone natural, especially in the context of a mother-daughter relationship, where conventionally the mom is supposed to nurture the child, not the other way around.  More than anything you want to love her, and yet her behavior is terribly unattractive, as well as harmful to you, and this cognitive dissonance is utterly confusing.  You too crave closeness, but she makes it too painful for you.  It's no wonder you're in distress.

Though my situation isn't exactly the same, I can relate to wanting desperately to love and support a family member, only to encounter ugly behavior from her.  How do I love someone who takes and takes, all the while blaming me and hurling venom my way?  Well I think I can take the venom, because I know that it's not about me, it's BPD.  But what's harder for me to take is how cruel she is to my husband and the rest of the family.  How do I try to reconcile preserving the integrity of the entire family?  Do I "defend" her actions and say, it's not her fault, it's BPD, just ignore it?  Do I say, she doesn't mean any of the hurtful things she is saying and doing, even after years of therapy?  At what point is an adult responsible for herself, even if she has mental illness?  I mean, BPD can't be an excuse for all negative behaviors, can it?  To say that BPD is at fault (and not the person) is like giving up, isn't it?  On these boards I sometimes see the concept of "radical acceptance," but does that mean accepting that a person with BPD is basically mean-spirited and unable to control themselves ever, and it's not possible to have a healthy "attachment" with them?  Honestly it's confusing to know what to do, let alone what to think.  And then I wonder, what is love to a pwBPD?  Will she ever have a meaningful relationship/"attachment"?  Or maybe it would be better to live alone?  I just don't know.

Eventually it seemed that BPD mother didn't care about anyone either. At times, she even would say she didn't care. I had assumed it was my fault- since she would blame me for something I did, or didn't do. If something is our fault, we think we can do something to fix it. I did try that but - reality is that it wasn't just with me. It was with everyone, and it wasn't something anyone could do or not do to "fix".

She could be nice to someone- if it served her in some way. I was envious that she seemed to have good relationships with other people but her outward persona was also self serving. People seemed drawn to that, until somehow she felt disappointed in something they did or didn't do- or they decided. She could "discard" someone quickly when she decided, even family members, with no observable sign of regret, remorse.

Sometimes she'd be hurtful on purpose. Sometimes it appeared she seemed to enjoy it. She had an NPD aspect to her too. I wondered if she may have ASPD traits as well.

It's hard to generalize a behavior or motive to everyone with BPD. It's a spectrum, it can overlap with other PD's. BPD is a challenge for people who are connected to the pwBPD. I think when there's NPD or ASPD involved, it increases tha

I don't excuse the behavior, on the basis of BPD. It doesn't mean we attribute bad qualities to them but that we see the behavior and if it's mean, hurtful- decide on the basis of that. Emotionally, for my mother, I think she was in a state of emotional survival, and was desperately seeking emotional relief in whatever way she could. It seemed to be her focus. There was a series, the Walking Dead. The zombies were the villains but when people were in survival mode- starving, scared, hungry, desperate their behavior was as, or more, monsterous than the Zombies. Were they evil? Not likely, but the response had to be self protection regardless, because being around them was a real threat.

Another analogy was taking water rescue classes. They teach you to not let a drowning person grab on to you. They are frantic and desperate and if they grab on to you they will pull you under the water. They taught us how to help from a position of safety- throw a life preserver and pull them in, extend the handle of the net to them. If they grab you, we learned how to escape the grip. Still the person has to cooperate in their own rescue. They have to grab the life preserver, or the net handle. They have to relax and let you pull them in with the proper hold without grabbing you.

BPD may have been the reason for my mother's behavior, but the behavior itself could be hurtful. That's reason to be self protective.

[CC43]

At times, she even would say she didn't care.

She had an NPD aspect to her too.

Yes, that's exactly what the pwBPD in my life will say:  "I don't care."  It's probably the most common phrase she utters in my presence.  Coming in second are words about feeling rejected or mistreated somehow.

I'm pretty sure her diagnosis was "BPD with narcissistic avoidant traits," or something along those lines.  Perhaps the touch of narcissism explains the seeming lack of concern for other people's feelings.  But with the pwBPD in my life, I see the narcissistic side manifest primarily in her obsession with looks, as well as in generalized entitlement.  The sense of entitlement isn't limited to immediate family, but extends more broadly.  It seems she expects for the world to cater to her needs too much, such as for a landlord to rent her an apartment when she doesn't have a job, employers to respond to her online profile with high-paying/low-stress job offers, Prince Charmings to sweep her off her feet, and the world to "discover" her as a supermodel/famous artist/actress/Youtube influencer, without having to do any work first, let alone be realistic about her talents and chances of success.  Since her expectations of a Carrie Bradshaw lifestyle clash with reality, she's constantly disappointed, which causes her significant distress.  I guess the way to describe it is she expects the world to come to her.  It's like the world is responsible for satisfying her needs and making her happy, and yet she seems oblivious to the notion that SHE is responsible for herself, SHE's the one who has to make things happen in her life.  Since she's passive and entitled, she's constantly disappointed, feeling angry and alienated and like a victim, blaming the world (primarily her family and any roommates) for her problems.  I guess I always come back to the notion that the victim attitude is the worst part of BPD, because it makes her feel powerless and not responsible for herself.  If she's not responsible, she can't "care" about how she makes other people feel, let alone apologize, let alone make things right.  She's too angry, frustrated, disappointed, negative--feeling REJECTED by the world--and she lashes out because of it.

[Notwendy]

This is similar to my BPD mother who also felt entitled- from everyone. She did find her Prince Charming, who provided for her, quite well. She was very attractive and paid attention to her appearance. While this may be in part due to some NPD it also was a means of achievement her era- a husband/provider was the goal of women in that time.

Still, if women didn't work outside the home, they still did the work in the home of managing the home and raising children. I consider that to be work too as I have done at times, done both, stay at home mother, and the work force. For BPD mother though, she did neither.

This is what astounded me. That someone would just be OK with not reciprocating, not contributing. I couldn't do that. If my H was the main wage earner, it was important to me to contribute to the family too. Yet, it didn't seem to bother BPD mother that she didn't. Dad provided her with the Carrie Bradshaw life and she seemed to feel entitled to it.

BPD, with some NPD could be the explanation for her but it didn't explain my father, how or why he tolerated this, but he did. We know now that this is a  pairing between two people. I think it may be a bit more difficult these days to find this kind of arrangement, but it can happen.

I think it's a normal wish for a young adult to want to find a partner and settle down, have a family. It's reasonable that someone with BPD wants that too. Perhaps the difference is how they go about it and behave in their relationships. CC43, It makes sense that your SD wants what she wants, but the expectations and how she relates to people are different.

For you, CC43, the decision is how will you respond to this? I can't say for all pwBPD, but for my mother, this was who she is. Whatever anyone did to try to get her to "see" their side of things, it didn't work. She also remained in victim perspective, feeling that others wronged her, even if they didn't do anything of the sort. She didn't seem to make the connection between her behavior and the reaction or consequences of it.

One decision is how much will you give to this relationship? For those of us who do reciprocate in a relationship, I think we see it though our own perspective. It's difficult to imagine someone who doesn't think like we do. For me, the decision was about how to balance my own values and boundaries and it isn't done to perfection. Although I think we may still have some wish, even if it is magical thinking, that we'd have a way to make the relationship "normal", that is different from expectations.

[Notwendy]

Now that she's passed, she's physically still all around me with all the work (and paperwork) involved in being executor.  The grief is heavy.

Somehow I still cared for her.  That is the kicker.  If I had not loved/cared for her, it wouldn't hurt so much that she was so mean and difficult. I wouldn't feel so messed up.  If I hadn't loved her, I wouldn't have showed up for her right to the end. 

Methuen- I have some thoughts about why the work of settling your mother's affairs is so emotionally heavy. It's a continuation of the relationship. I think in "normal" situations, there are still the tasks to be done, but the relationship itself- there was more to it, and the person is grieving the loss of that.

Doing tasks for your mother didn't stop when she passed and if that was a main aspect of the relationship, then the relationship is still continuing. Maybe this is also a part of why the grief is complicated.