1.23 | Dealing with Enmeshment and Codependence

[Suzn]

It is a long list isn't it? Not every codependent has every characteristic. 

Are there any characteristics here you identify with?

[ucmeicu2]

Are there any characteristics here you identify with?

hi suzn, yes a staggering amount.  what's the general MO here... .for me to post them, put 'em up for discussion?  i can do that, but the shorter list would probably be the ones i don't identify with.   

the thing is, i'm confused b/c there's controversy as to whether CoDa is even a real thing ~ i read it's not even in the DSM.

[peas]

I understand this list, but what if I caused the problems/mess for someone that I am co-dependently trying to clean up?

I demonstrated many of these co-dependent traits but only with regard to me leaving my uBPDexbf for a job out of town right after we met. We were together a month and then I had to move out of town for work. We continued for six more months long distance, but he blamed me the whole time, guilt tripped me and raged about it. I felt really guilty about his hard emotions with me leaving town and I worked like crazy to overcompensate and try to alleviate his pain of me being gone and I did it in the co-dependent mold. Other than that, I don't see myself as an all-around co-dependent person. I usually live and let live.

[Skip]

Codependency is not in the DSM - it's not a disease - maybe more of a proclivity or a relationship pattern or a dysfunctional response to relationship failure. 

Codependents are people who find themselves in relationships with people who, at some point, neither seem interested nor motivated to participate in mutual or reciprocal basis.  The partners of codependents are often egotistical, self-centered and/or selfish.  Typically, codependents feel unfulfilled, disrespected and undervalued by their relationship partner.  As much as they resent and complain about the inequity in their relationships, codependents feel powerless to change them.

[rosannadanna]

I consider codependency to be a world view and the way one interacts with that perceived world.  It's only dysfunctional if the person is unhappy with his/her life and wants to change the way they see/interact with the world.  I think there is a crapload of people in this country that fall within the parameters of codependency, but a lot of them just keep rolling through life, making choices that support their world view and make their lives manageable.

In my opinion, the parent/child relationship is where one learns the codependent world view.  The very act of having a child is narcissistic, if you think about it.  We do it for lots of different reasons, but they are narcissistically-based.  I think in many, many situations children end up in codependent situations with one or both of their parents.  I know I did and I struggle resisting doing the same crap to my son.

Just my opinion guys!  

[Ryyder]

Oh yes, I'm codependent alright and I don't think I would have ever known it if I hadn't fallen in love with my BPDbf

I spent all my time and energy of trying to fix him and neglected myself so much that I became depressed.

Now I have taken a step back and am able to see my part in our/my problems but fixing myself is waaaay harder than I imagined. I'm taking small steps, such as not reacting when he's in his push cycle; I'm just taking care of myself. I'm not chasing him like I used to when I felt him attempt to separate from me. I'm not offering suggestions when he hints that he wants me to sort his problems out for him, I simply validate that life can be hard sometimes.

I'm finally listening to my inner child and tending to her needs and she wants chocolate, a lot!

[Lucky One]

I did this Workshop over the weekend.

Very, very helpful in helping me to see myself, in a different light.

So, now I have some work to do - on myself!

Thank You so much

[MammaMia]

Wow!

I personally believe everyone has at least some of the qualities on this list, even people wBPD.  These are not all negative emotions.

It is called being human. 

[mrshambles]

Welp, this just blew my mind. I guess I know where I need go start now to fix myself. I always wondered what the weird feeling was at the end of my relationships... .that anxiety filled, just... .Ugh. I always considered myself too alpha to be codependent, but I suppose that was just a ruse. I'm glad I saw this, I can now roll up my sleeves and start the REAL work. Anyone else out there brave enough to discuss? I'm literally blow away right now.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Welp, this just blew my mind. I guess I know where I need go start now to fix myself. I always wondered what the weird feeling was at the end of my relationships... .that anxiety filled, just... .Ugh. I always considered myself too alpha to be codependent, but I suppose that was just a ruse. I'm glad I saw this, I can now roll up my sleeves and start the REAL work. Anyone else out there brave enough to discuss? I'm literally blow away right now.

Hi mrshambles, Hi. I accept the challenge - i am brave enough to discuss.   Reading this thread it strikes me just how many people are going through or have gone through the exact things that I am.  I read "Codependent No More" about 15 years ago.  At the time i was able to see myself on those pages, but didn't realize just how enmeshed in my r/s with UBPDHi had become until my life really became unmanageable.  I was pushed and pulled, up and down, ruled by chaos until i just could not take it anymore.

Ripping myself away from the enmeshment has been lonely and difficult.  At times, I feel so free and comfortable with myself that I understand how worth the effort this process Is.

It got to the point where i was not doing anything I loved.  I had become a person unrecognizeable to myself.  When I look at how it began, (about 40 years ago)I see that i was trying to be accommodating and I am a patient, easy going person so i often gave in and gave up my own plans to go along with my husband. 

I felt selfish wanting things for myself.  Even small things.  My H and his family reinforced this belief.  I actually felt sorry for my H because of problems in his FOO (I think his dad was BPD or at least had many signs of it). Also, he always worked so hard and I felt like taking care of him was my job. 

There has been intermittent reinforcement.  We have had a lot of fun vacations, we have celebrated family milestones and success at working alongside each other.  These pleasant things have kept me in the r/s. 


On the other hand, so many things happened in our r/s that i should not have go e along with, but for some reason i gave my power in the r/s away.  There were times I tried to enforce my boundaries, but just felt overwhelmed or bowled over  by him.  I can never win an argument.  He is always louder, etc and will not concede.  Lately, I have learned to disengage before it gets to that point.  Yea!

I always thought if he would change, everything would be great.  Now i realize that I have a big codependent problem and I need to change myself.  Being in a r/s with pwBPD can be exciting.  I have opted to spend time by myself and have to admit there is a part of me that misses the excitement.

So what about you?  How are you dealing with this topic since you posted?

[CanICallYou]

thank you for sharing.

[Indiegrl]

OMG... .

I never realized - I am doing the codependent thing! 

   

Have to admit I have not associated myself with codependency, because deep in the core of my identity is my sense of being independent. I do take care of myself (almost to the brink of being self-sufficient?), I do need to feel that my mind is free - thoughts are not dangerous - actions may be!

My mother taught me early on: Do not rely on others, the only one responsible for you, is you. (Well... .the wording was perhaps more harsh, to tell you the truth, more like: Trust nobody but yourself, they will only disappoint you. Always be able to care for yourself, never ever trust a man to do that!)

Well, all my life I have been doing the independent "I can manage myself"-thing, I can see a read thread in my life: I have never ever attracted a boyfriend who would take care of me. Cause I take care of myself. I need nothing from you, but I will be glad to help you, if you need help - whatever you need. The best thing I know? To know what you need before you even realizing it yourself! Oh, that's a thrill!

All this time I have been thinking of myself as a very independent, always have been an introspective person, but at the same time, over-responsible and very sensitive towards other peoples hardships. Do I find it almost impossible to ask for help? Oh yes. Do I feel extremely akward recieving, is it the safest thing on earth to give? Guilty of charge! I do not see myself as "enabling" because I want to feel loved, I have kind of thought of it as "just the thing one does". But after reading this, I might have to dig deeper into my own psychology.

I am good at being alone - that is my default mode, so to speak, it doesn't stress me out, rather I need it (as an introvert). But have I all my life longed for a sense of companionship and belonging? Oh yes. I have been raised in an environment of "extreme" independence (and self-suffiency), but have fallen short of stating my own needs. My current r/s (uhm, we're having a break, or is it a break-up, for the moment I am not really sure) was the first to fulfill my deepest longing for this crazy romantic True Love Forever belonging to another person. Ah... .bliss... .

But now (2 years down the line) I really miss my freedom and myself, my friends and my own attitude. Freedom to act independently, and I am so sick of freedom being understood as The Most Dangerous thing! No, it's not freedom to f**k around, it's freedom to think and be myself! I need SPACE!

And then it's time for some praise:

I've read a lot of different forums on the internet for several years, but this forum has got to be THE forum with the highest density of members and postings filled with experience-based wisdom, truth, insight and genuine support. My deepest admirations to all of you. Lifealtering journey, starting as from now!

Thank you all for sharing! 

[pdigesu]

Does not this article describe all people and to some extent a healthy relationship? Love is also need and we all need to some extent, correct? Wealth and money and freedom of responsibility has complicated our needs for each other in this modern time. In the days of practicality we loved and stayed with each other and we did not question why so much as much as we worked to keep it together and accepted it which made it good. Yes, "It's right" as opposed to "it's not right" can be all in the mind.

[freespirit]

This is also something to think about... .

WE TEACH OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO TREAT US

In order for codependence to be part of any relationship, two things have to happen ~ the people-pleaser has to say yes a lot more often than no, and the other person has to not only accept this but also begin to expect it in the relationship. Once that dynamic is in place, it is difficult to break the cycle.

When you say yes consistently to another person, and when you accept any form of abuse as part of any of your relationships, you are essentially teaching the other people that it is all right for them to treat you that way. Although you might not be aware of it, you actually do have as much power and control as the other person does, because all of us can really only control ourselves.

It is only when you choose to give your power and control to another person that you begin to feel the sting of codependency, because the truth is that no one can disrespect you without your permission.



www.angelscommunity.com/EN/the_best_of_counsellor%27s_corner/recovering_from_codependency:_the_truth_about_people-pleasing/

We do have choices... .

Love this, thanks for posting united for now .

I am an adult child of a boarderline mother and relationships have scared and confussed me my whole life.

After finding  bpdfamily and doing my family or origin work I started Who Me ~ Co-dependent? a Face Book page, as a personal project back in November 2012, as a way of educating myself, sharing resources and keeping the resources in the one place. I have recently set up  Who Me ~ Co-dependent? forum as a continuation of that work.

www.whomecodependent.boards.net/thread/79/who-me-dependent

There is such wisdom on bpdfamily and I am so grateful for the service they provide and everyone who contributes to this site.

Thankyou 

[Aga Khan]

I'm having difficulty identifying with all or any of these traits in my co-dependency. The degree of emotional response varies so much in my relationship with a BPDf, I know I am in some kind of relationship, possibly romantic and as a caregiver. We have really great times together, we don't have common interests but both our lives have been enriched by our influences on each other. For example, I have started reading much more because my partner gave me an app she thought of would be good for my entertainment and knowledge. I have expanded my interests, nothing to do with her interests. We share a love of food and cooking, but entirely different tastes and we have funny arguments about tastes and ingredients. We have fights, or disagreements but still respect each other's boundaries, but reading some of the "issues" here makes me sure I have a problem when in fact there may not be. The term "borderline" is just that, never clearly knowing if this condition is real or just our behavior analyses in a too intensely clinical way? She does get angry over small issues, as I do. I don't expect her to be like a Stepford wife. She has been to see psychiatrists, but they have said she is depressed because or work related stress, no mention of BPD, maybe she is not revealing it? I feel I am starting to thing crazy things about her which may not be true. Am I in denial? I find so many different ways of looking at our relationship, overthinking it?

[ladylee]

I have married alcoholism before and divorced it, spent time in Al Anon, so I really thought I was on the road of recovery with this codependency, but that was before I met a BPD. Its a horse of a different color, I have had to saddle up and learn a lot to strengthen my inner core. They are very high functioning, its just that they will keep taking, bit by bit, until they are done. If one is not thinking of boundaries, as I was not always thinking of them, because I was trusting, its easy to become complacent. This is not a wake up call one wants to face in a marriage.  It took me years because I would not face it UNTIL it showed itself as alcohlism, something I was familiar with tying to codependency.

[StartingHealing]

I have many of those traits.

However, I think that I had the tendencies but then being in a marriage with a WwBPD/NPD developed them to a degree that now it's a issue for me.

If that makes any sense?