Recycle Termination, gf talks suicide

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi Everyone.

Well the latest recycle lasted over 1 month and ended officially yesterday.

Thanks to this site I was better prepared to deal with it but the 'ending' still hurts. I have put the udBPDgf on controlled contact where she can only leave a msg on my phone through a call blocker app. and I proposed an agreement with her to only meet her for sex which she agreed to. That may sound ridiculous and selfish but actually it is the only joint activity where we give to each other equally. So the agreement is a boundary.

There is a problem that precipitated the break up which concerns me a lot. Her son's aunt (on her ex's side) committed suicide this weekend. I met the then gf at her apt on Saturday night and she told me she was "jealous" because the aunt had actually succeeded when she could not.

Then she told me that 3 years ago she took 12 xanax pills in an apparent suicide attempt.

Yesterday I met her at the mall to discuss our r/s so I could determine what to do. During our discussion she said there was no hope for her and therefore no hope for our r/s and that she would not be around past 2013.  I asked what she meant by that and she said she didn't mean she would kill herself but that she had a dream and she would be dead by some other means.

Then she said I know how to "psychologically abuse" her.  Now I have used some tough love with her and called her on b/s and feel like maybe I am the only person who has ever stood up to her. But I feel I am being psychologically abused by her with the recycles where she is remorseful and apologizes and says I am the only guy for her blah blah blah and then wants to end the r/s saying she is not ready for a r/s.

So I told her that I feel that she abuses me and that I don't want to make a decision right now on whether or not to ever talk with her again. Then we left and later in the day I decided on the sex only/controlled contact.

So now my concern is I am not sure how serious to take her suicide talk... .  you all know how some BPD people use this kind of talk to control. On the one hand I am worried that she will kill herself and I will blame myself and on the other hand I want to call b/s on this.

I told her she has to get into therapy but she refused saying all they do is listen and do nothing etc.

As of now I am lying low... .  trying to do a better job then last time in not initiating contact, trying to control anger, ruminating and depression.  But her suicide talk has me thrown for a loop.

Does anybody have any suggestions on how I should handle this?

I have my T appointment today and this will be topic number 1.

On a positive note for the first time in recycle and during the r/s I actually started to get bored with her about 1 week ago and feel my attraction to her is not as strong as before. I say that is positive because I won't want to be with somebody I am not attracted to... .  maybe that is the direction I am going.

Thanks again!

[nowwhatz]

Hi Everyone.

Well the latest recycle lasted over 1 month and ended officially yesterday.

Thanks to this site I was better prepared to deal with it but the 'ending' still hurts. I have put the udBPDgf on controlled contact where she can only leave a msg on my phone through a call blocker app. and I proposed an agreement with her to only meet her for sex which she agreed to. That may sound ridiculous and selfish but actually it is the only joint activity where we give to each other equally. So the agreement is a boundary.

There is a problem that precipitated the break up which concerns me a lot. Her son's aunt (on her ex's side) committed suicide this weekend. I met the then gf at her apt on Saturday night and she told me she was "jealous" because the aunt had actually succeeded when she could not.

Then she told me that 3 years ago she took 12 xanax pills in an apparent suicide attempt.

Yesterday I met her at the mall to discuss our r/s so I could determine what to do. During our discussion she said there was no hope for her and therefore no hope for our r/s and that she would not be around past 2013.  I asked what she meant by that and she said she didn't mean she would kill herself but that she had a dream and she would be dead by some other means.

Then she said I know how to "psychologically abuse" her.  Now I have used some tough love with her and called her on b/s and feel like maybe I am the only person who has ever stood up to her. But I feel I am being psychologically abused by her with the recycles where she is remorseful and apologizes and says I am the only guy for her blah blah blah and then wants to end the r/s saying she is not ready for a r/s.

So I told her that I feel that she abuses me and that I don't want to make a decision right now on whether or not to ever talk with her again. Then we left and later in the day I decided on the sex only/controlled contact.

So now my concern is I am not sure how serious to take her suicide talk... .  you all know how some BPD people use this kind of talk to control. On the one hand I am worried that she will kill herself and I will blame myself and on the other hand I want to call b/s on this.

I told her she has to get into therapy but she refused saying all they do is listen and do nothing etc.

As of now I am lying low... .  trying to do a better job then last time in not initiating contact, trying to control anger, ruminating and depression.  But her suicide talk has me thrown for a loop.

Does anybody have any suggestions on how I should handle this?

I have my T appointment today and this will be topic number 1.

On a positive note for the first time in recycle and during the r/s I actually started to get bored with her about 1 week ago and feel my attraction to her is not as strong as before. I say that is positive because I won't want to be with somebody I am not attracted to... .  maybe that is the direction I am going.

Thanks again!

[Phoenix.Rising]

Hi Nowhatz,  I recently stopped contact with my ex after an attempt at friendship.  I found that it was too difficult for me to maintain without wanting more. 

The sexual part of our initial relationship became addictive for me.  Couple that with the fact that I  have a difficult time having sex with her without forming an attachment.  If you can accomplish that, more power to you, but if I was continuing to have sex with her, I know that I would ultimately want more.  Whatever you decide, best of luck to you.

[nowwhatz]

Hi Nowhatz,  I recently stopped contact with my ex after an attempt at friendship.  I found that it was too difficult for me to maintain without wanting more. 

The sexual part of our initial relationship became addictive for me.  Couple that with the fact that I  have a difficult time having sex with her without forming an attachment.  If you can accomplish that, more power to you, but if I was continuing to have sex with her, I know that I would ultimately want more.  Whatever you decide, best of luck to you.

Thanks Phoenix.

I will keep that in mind.

It looks like I will be going through some withdrawal over the next few days or weeks... .  hope it won't be as bad as last time.

With regard to gf's suicide talk I talked to T and she said it sounds like a BPD person's way of keeping me hooked and suggested the next time I talk with the BPD exgf I tell her there are emergency numbers to call if she feels like she is going to hurt herself etc.

[Newton]

I would add to you T's advice... .  if you receive a message that insinuates a possible suicide attempt it is your responsibility to yourself and your SO that you call the relevant emergency services with her details... .  then step away and let the cards fall where they may... .  

It will send a clear message that you are not trained to deal with this situation, it is not your responsibility, and she has to deal with the consequences of those sorts of threats... .  there are people who are specifically trained to assist her with this sort of emergency... .  

[nowwhatz]

I would add to you T's advice... .  if you receive a message that insinuates a possible suicide attempt it is your responsibility to yourself and your SO that you call the relevant emergency services with her details... .  then step away and let the cards fall where they may... .  

It will send a clear message that you are not trained to deal with this situation, it is not your responsibility, and she has to deal with the consequences of those sorts of threats... .  there are people who are specifically trained to assist her with this sort of emergency... .  

I agree.

I am trying to find a way to walk away from this but am still involved with her. I think the suicide talk is just her way to keep me involved.   It is insulting to me that she does this but she has the ultimate excuse - her BPD or whatever. 

I am trying hard to back away and not contact for a while but now I am having withdrawals with depression starting.

Her suicide talk is a very effective tool to keep me involved and worried about her.

As long as I am involved I guess this is the board for me.

The T also advised to not give her anything. No financial help of any kind and to not be a sounding board for her emotional problems because she refuses to get help. Any assistance I provide is just enabling.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Hi Nowhatz,  I didn't address the suicide talk, but I wanted to tell you that I dated a woman, previous to my recent ex, who was diagnosed bipolar (and I now wonder if possible BPD) who tried to commit suicide a couple of times taking overdoses of pills. 

I agree that her words should be taken seriously, and I would let her know that you will take the appropriate action if she threatens to you, such as calling 911.  I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, but remember she is ultimately not your responsibility. In other words, you cannot fix or save her no matter how much you love her.  She has to want help and seek it on her own.  Take care.

[nowwhatz]

Hi Nowhatz,  I didn't address the suicide talk, but I wanted to tell you that I dated a woman, previous to my recent ex, who was diagnosed bipolar (and I now wonder if possible BPD) who tried to commit suicide a couple of times taking overdoses of pills. 

I agree that her words should be taken seriously, and I would let her know that you will take the appropriate action if she threatens to you, such as calling 911.  I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, but remember she is ultimately not your responsibility. In other words, you cannot fix or save her no matter how much you love her.  She has to want help and seek it on her own.  Take care.

Yeah you are right. The T said she had had clients/patients who committed suicide that she had been treating for a long time. Tough job.

I met with the now again exgf last night and had an honest and emotional discussion with her. She was aware and I explained how the recycles affect me, and also that I need space from her now to go through my grief cycle (again) and heal.

And also explained that she is now on controlled contact for my protection... .  her calls will go right to vm and she can leave a message. I don't think I want to have sex with her or touch her at all. Just want to be away from her and find the will to not be involved with her.

[Newton]

Good call for setting parameters that are looking after YOU! 

So how do you want this to go now?... .  

Are you undecided or leaving?... .  

[nowwhatz]

Good call for setting parameters that are looking after YOU! 

So how do you want this to go now?... .  

Are you undecided or leaving?... .  

Good questions.

How I want it to go is probably an impossibility. I would like for her to begin therapy and return to a committed r/s with me and have it be semi-normal. 

At this time she says she is in love with her ex-husband but there is no possibility of them getting back together. I am sure that is her truth for today and tomorrow who knows what her truth is.

If I can be strong enough and not get attached I would like to maintain a casual r/s with her and see if she gets help. If she gets help then my hope is to progress on to something more permanent than just a permanent series of on and off.

If I can stay casual with her and not get attached I want to try dating a "normal" woman. I have one in mind that likes me a lot. Maybe go out with the "normal" take is slow  and see what develops and keep the crazy chick around that I am love with to see what happens there. During this last recycle I found myself getting bored and actually losing some attraction to the BPDgf... .  first time ever... .  and thinking about the "normal" woman.

So I have not 'left' and I know she will not leave me because she needs to keep me around so she can have someone say they love her and not get abandoned.

Keeping the boundaries set for now is my plan... .  I am taking all day by day.

Thanks so much.

[Phoenix.Rising]

One step at a time.

[Justadude]

WARNING DO NOT HAVE ANY MORE SEX WITH HER. GET THE HECK AWAY FROM HER.

I broke up with my ex. She threatened suicide and did some cutting. It really messed me up emotionally. I being the caretaker I am soothed her but I lost myself. Things only became worse. I still slept with her and we now have a child together. The pain from having a child and not having a lot of control as a man to be the Dad you WANT to be in a mutual environment, and not having a solid relationship just let me tell you is a lot harder than it really needs to be. So if you want your future to look and be as stressful and complicated as that I suggest keep seeing her and have a wonderful child, but remember if you continue you will be in a long-term hurting situation that you will be wishing you had not. Rule of thumb. Take care of yourself first right now. Stay away. NO SEX. RUN! I wish someone was screaming in my face the same thing when I went through my situation.

[nowwhatz]

WARNING DO NOT HAVE ANY MORE SEX WITH HER. GET THE HECK AWAY FROM HER.

I broke up with my ex. She threatened suicide and did some cutting. It really messed me up emotionally. I being the caretaker I am soothed her but I lost myself. Things only became worse. I still slept with her and we now have a child together. The pain from having a child and not having a lot of control as a man to be the Dad you WANT to be in a mutual environment, and not having a solid relationship just let me tell you is a lot harder than it really needs to be. So if you want your future to look and be as stressful and complicated as that I suggest keep seeing her and have a wonderful child, but remember if you continue you will be in a long-term hurting situation that you will be wishing you had not. Rule of thumb. Take care of yourself first right now. Stay away. NO SEX. RUN! I wish someone was screaming in my face the same thing when I went through my situation.

Dam... .  sorry man... .  and thank you for the input!

Well she is unable to have children so that is not an issue for me.

Honestly I am not as attracted to her like I was before (like in the recycle before this one)... .  so that may solve my problem. Even though she is beautiful she is not eating and not taking care of her health so I am saying... .  what is she going to look like in a couple of years? etc.

I really have to thank everybody on this site and all the info provided. The prior recycle was a cataclysmic event for me and the knowledge base and great people here helped me get through it, and be better prepared to handle this recycle.

Being aware of BPD was a huge help to me this time. Sure I am sad and am not leaving my work but so far I am avoiding a meltdown.

I am also starting to feel myself changing from a romantic/sexual type of love to more of a friend. It hurts but could be worse.

[nowwhatz]

WARNING DO NOT HAVE ANY MORE SEX WITH HER. GET THE HECK AWAY FROM HER.

I broke up with my ex. She threatened suicide and did some cutting. It really messed me up emotionally. I being the caretaker I am soothed her but I lost myself. Things only became worse. I still slept with her and we now have a child together. The pain from having a child and not having a lot of control as a man to be the Dad you WANT to be in a mutual environment, and not having a solid relationship just let me tell you is a lot harder than it really needs to be. So if you want your future to look and be as stressful and complicated as that I suggest keep seeing her and have a wonderful child, but remember if you continue you will be in a long-term hurting situation that you will be wishing you had not. Rule of thumb. Take care of yourself first right now. Stay away. NO SEX. RUN! I wish someone was screaming in my face the same thing when I went through my situation.

I spent some time with the exwhatevergf at the casino last night and watched her put every cent she owns in the machines (she is behind on rent, car payments etc).

As I am trying to define boundaries and decide how much I want to have to do with her I tested the part of our agreement about having sex... .  basically I told her I wanted to go to her apt tomorrow morning at such and such time and have sex with her.

I got a long talking point from her about how she has no confidence in herself and does not feel sexy because she has no good makeup and hair extensions.  I tried to explain that that made no sense but also told her I am losing my sexual attraction to her.

Then she started talking about how she had to close the door in her heart about her ex husband who she now says she loves again blah blah.

I left it by telling her the next time she calls me it has to be when she is horny... .  maybe she will have to get her hair extensions etc.


Now... .  I know the drill very well with this girl. If I leave her alone for about 30 days she will call and try to start the cycle and it will be a lot more than just sex.

The point of this exercise was to simplify our "r/s" to the most basic element to see if there is any 'there'  there... .  and also to further control the contact. (incidentally one of her excuses for not wanting to be in a relationship is not wanting to be controlled... .  something I would never do in a relationship with her... .  but now I have no choice to control things for my own emotional protection so she has what she says she does not want).

It looks like my feelings towards her sexually are waning and this is a good thing.

Confusing? Yes... .  progress... .  yes I think so.

[Justadude]

Gotta love it. She makes this awkward confession.

I did something similar last year with my ex. You'll like this. I was really always had in my head those same sex feelings. I though related sex to love and warm feelings with her, just not sex. My ex used sex to get to me. For example during the summer she showed up at my home to pick up our daughter dressed in this tight dress trying to get close. She would just do real crummy things like that when I was dating this other girl and it would tear me up and confuse me. So I give this chick a call and I say if I was to just have sex with you now I would have x, y, and z feelings about you. Would you think if we just had sex now it would be just sex? And she goes, yes it would be just sex. I felt crummy. This woman who I have a child with did x, y, and z to legitimately hurt me on parrallel stage said she "loved" me, but then was so contradictory. That will make anyone crazy. That sex deal clicked for me there as a way she manipulated me to control me not really spend time with me and hang out. That's how I felt.

I think the more you are strong enough to have blunt honest conversations and not beat around the bush the better off things will be. Someone who is not down for you will avoid or disregard the whole thing because of their own issues and limits in health. I know it's hard because she's probably hot and you are hooked on that but if you can just get out there and find someone else to just have sex with, you'll be better off without that old drama. Just be careful all sexual relationships and attractions carry their own dynamic. Good luck.

[Newton]

nowwhatz... .  have you considered the moral implications of attempting to initiate sex with someone who is exhibiting symptoms of mental illness?

Wasn't the very nature of your "exercise" an attempt to control?... .  

[nowwhatz]

Gotta love it. She makes this awkward confession.

I did something similar last year with my ex. You'll like this. I was really always had in my head those same sex feelings. I though related sex to love and warm feelings with her, just not sex. My ex used sex to get to me. For example during the summer she showed up at my home to pick up our daughter dressed in this tight dress trying to get close. She would just do real crummy things like that when I was dating this other girl and it would tear me up and confuse me. So I give this chick a call and I say if I was to just have sex with you now I would have x, y, and z feelings about you. Would you think if we just had sex now it would be just sex? And she goes, yes it would be just sex. I felt crummy. This woman who I have a child with did x, y, and z to legitimately hurt me on parrallel stage said she "loved" me, but then was so contradictory. That will make anyone crazy. That sex deal clicked for me there as a way she manipulated me to control me not really spend time with me and hang out. That's how I felt.

I think the more you are strong enough to have blunt honest conversations and not beat around the bush the better off things will be. Someone who is not down for you will avoid or disregard the whole thing because of their own issues and limits in health. I know it's hard because she's probably hot and you are hooked on that but if you can just get out there and find someone else to just have sex with, you'll be better off without that old drama. Just be careful all sexual relationships and attractions carry their own dynamic. Good luck.

Wow. Right now I am not talking with her.

I know the day after we broke up she immediately started a recycle with another guy. This poor guy was actually knocking on her door the same night she recycled back with me.

She made an appointment for the guy to see her and bring back her things but she was with me that night and the guy was texting her saying how disappointed he was etc. She says she is not ready for a r/s but absolutely cannot be alone even 1 day.

I have a 2 year history with this person. I am trying to be as blunt as possible without being too rude. The other night when I spoke with her she said she didn't feel sexy any more because she had no more hair extensions.  In my give me space text I told her ... .  good luck with the current re-re-re-cycle guys... .  make them buy you hair extensions .

I am going to leave it at that I suppose.

Where I run into problems is the obsession train... .  so I need to keep busy.

Newton... .  I think my need to "control" is for my own protection. I agree with the moral implications. At this time I have no interest in sex with her. I am annoyed by her and not attracted. The exercise was for me an attempt to boil the r/s down to its most basic elements... .  to prove a point I suppose.

I understand she is sick but I am also frustrated that she takes zero responsibility.

I hope I can forget her and let her go for my own good. If I don't and she does not do something to take care of herself this dance will continue.

[Newton]

If she has untreated BPD traits then she has no power to stop the dance, you do... .  I get your frustration at her taking "zero responsibility"... .  this is symptomatic of someone in total denial... .  

Two questions... .  what "point" were you trying to prove?... .  I'm confused... .  a point to her?... .  to yourself?... .  is it possible you could elaborate?... .  

Secondly, how was this behaviour protecting yourself?... .  

[nowwhatz]

If she has untreated BPD traits then she has no power to stop the dance, you do... .  I get your frustration at her taking "zero responsibility"... .  this is symptomatic of someone in total denial... .  

Two questions... .  what "point" were you trying to prove?... .  I'm confused... .  a point to her?... .  to yourself?... .  is it possible you could elaborate?... .  

Secondly, how was this behaviour protecting yourself?... .  

Hmmmm... .  now you are making me think. I appreciate it

I am not sure and a little confused. Maybe it is just bargaining in the grief process.

Right now even though I will be having withdrawals (I was with her almost every day for last 40 days) limiting or controlling the contact protects me... .  from her and from myself... .  from further damage and pain.

I need space to 'dry out' ... .  painful as it may be (though not as bad as last time so far).

The dance sucks. Other than going total no contact and ignoring her how do I stop the dance?

How do get unhooked?

Should I get unhooked?

Sometimes I feel like this is part of my life's purpose to be in this person's life. Like maybe it is teaching me something... .  but the emotional abuse of the recycles is beating me down... .  wreaking my spirit.

I used to be a super positive person now I feel like a beaten dog.

[Newton]

Many of us here have been through multiple recycles... .  the common theme seems to be that they become shorter in duration... .  and more intensely dysfunctional... .  

I think a few things are at play here... .  we are becoming more aware of the dynamic, we start to look after ourselves with boundaries... .  that can create more resistance and extinction bursts from them... .  

Secondly we learn to use validating language which allows them to feel "heard"... .  bringing more intimacy and connection in the relationship... .  promoting more abandonment/engulfment fear in them... .  (that is the definition of a no-win situation... .  surely!)... .  

Perhaps it will take a few more rounds with her for you to realise her behaviour won't change... .  

Acceptance that you attempting to have an emotional, intimate connection with her is in itself adding fuel to her symptoms is a difficult step... .  that was my  moment... .  yours may be different... .  

The analogy of feeling like a beaten dog works... .  until you realise YOU are the one holding the big stick (the relationship with her) and actually beating yourself... .  

[nowwhatz]

Many of us here have been through multiple recycles... .  the common theme seems to be that they become shorter in duration... .  and more intensely dysfunctional... .  

I think a few things are at play here... .  we are becoming more aware of the dynamic, we start to look after ourselves with boundaries... .  that can create more resistance and extinction bursts from them... .  

Secondly we learn to use validating language which allows them to feel "heard"... .  bringing more intimacy and connection in the relationship... .  promoting more abandonment/engulfment fear in them... .  (that is the definition of a no-win situation... .  surely!)... .  

Perhaps it will take a few more rounds with her for you to realise her behaviour won't change... .  

Acceptance that you attempting to have an emotional, intimate connection with her is in itself adding fuel to her symptoms is a difficult step... .  that was my   moment... .  yours may be different... .  

The analogy of feeling like a beaten dog works... .  until you realise YOU are the one holding the big stick (the relationship with her) and actually beating yourself... .  

Newton... .  thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. Awesome thought provoking reply.

What you say goes in line with what my T says.

What is an alternative to the validating language?

How do I attempt to have an intimate relationship with this person without adding fuel?

The turning point this time was about 2 weeks ago when I was so busy with my work I did not call her that day. Only sent her a text.

She said she was very sad that I did not call her and only texted. When I tried to probe this she started the push off process. Prior to that the time together during this recycle was wonderful.

What is also frustrating is that she is unwilling to consider therapy. She takes much medication for 'depression' which now doubt she has.  

This go round was actually less dysfunctional. She had a few more moments of awareness than before.

Well all in all I think there is progress. I am not as hurt as the last recycles and it appears that she is becoming aware of her feelings a little better.

Because she shared her feelings with me and I validated... .  one of her new fears that she used in the 'breakup' was that I would use them against her to psychologically abuse her.

Truly a no win situation.

[Newton]

Validating language is a tool that allows someone else to feel like their statements count for something... .  that someone has taken the time to hear them... .  and their feelings about the world... .  Using this formula of words isn't necessarily agreeing with the person... .  it is letting them know you have heard what they have said, and you appreciate it is relevant to them... .  (and subsequently they often feel soothed)... .  thats it!... .  

(it is a tool that needs to be used with discretion as it is quite easy to manipulate people with this knowledge... .  not cool!)

Advertisers, politicians and lawyers use SET every day... .  

An alternative to validating language?... .  In what sense?... .  What do you want to acheive... .  ?

It sounds like you are an intelligent guy, so rather than answering your question of whether or not you have the chance to make this work... .  I will ask you a question... .  

How many success stories can you see on the "staying" board with members who seem happy and content?... .  

It's important you define the parameters of what YOU want and need from a relationship before you attempt to fit yourself around someone else's life... .  

How can you have an intimate relationship with her without adding fuel?... .  IMO you can't... .  I am truly sorry to deliver that message.  It hurt me like hell to realise that I had to emotionally distance myself or it would destroy us both... .  unless your SO accepts her condition and pursues prolonged relevant therapy the same drama will continue... .  read the leaving and staying boards for proof... .  

Do you really want a partner in your life who will flip out over a txt rather than a call?... .  Did she ask you why you had such a busy day and if you wanted to talk about it?... .  or was it just about her feelings?... .  

[nowwhatz]

Validating language is a tool that allows someone else to feel like their statements count for something... .  that someone has taken the time to hear them... .  and their feelings about the world... .  Using this formula of words isn't necessarily agreeing with the person... .  it is letting them know you have heard what they have said, and you appreciate it is relevant to them... .  (and subsequently they often feel soothed)... .  thats it!... .  

(it is a tool that needs to be used with discretion as it is quite easy to manipulate people with this knowledge... .  not cool!)

Advertisers, politicians and lawyers use SET every day... .  

An alternative to validating language?... .  In what sense?... .  What do you want to acheive... .  ?

It sounds like you are an intelligent guy, so rather than answering your question of whether or not you have the chance to make this work... .  I will ask you a question... .  

How many success stories can you see on the "staying" board with members who seem happy and content?... .  

It's important you define the parameters of what YOU want and need from a relationship before you attempt to fit yourself around someone else's life... .  

How can you have an intimate relationship with her without adding fuel?... .  IMO you can't... .  I am truly sorry to deliver that message.  It hurt me like hell to realise that I had to emotionally distance myself or it would destroy us both... .  unless your SO accepts her condition and pursues prolonged relevant therapy the same drama will continue... .  read the leaving and staying boards for proof... .  

Do you really want a partner in your life who will flip out over a txt rather than a call?... .  Did she ask you why you had such a busy day and if you wanted to talk about it?... .  or was it just about her feelings?... .  

I think I understand the concept of validating language. You said VL  " ... .  which allows them to feel "heard"... .  bringing more intimacy and connection in the relationship... .  promoting more abandonment/engulfment fear in them... .  (that is the definition of a no-win situation... .  surely!)... .  "

I guess what I am realizing is that using the validating language is not really effective with a possible BPD person.

Perusing the boards I am not seeing many success stories. A lot of frustration. I was on the leaving board in September when I was going though total hell.

As for your question about the txt and her flipping out of course she didn't ask me about my busy day. Honestly I get nothing, nada, zilch in terms of interest or caring behavior from her once she flips the switch. I get a lot promises and nice treatment in the beginning of the recycle... .  then the switch flips and nothing.

Everything is always about her totally egoista. This is a r/s where I am giving 100% and getting 1% or in the negative percentiles.

I suppose the answer is yes... .  this has been what I wanted... .  but now I am finding I don't want it as much as before.

This time I was able to distance myself emotionally a bit more than before.

I know there is no hope of a decent r/s with a person with this condition unless they are in therapy. I guess I am in a bit of denial about that and want to feel like I can help her get into therapy.

Again I appreciate your input and help.