Strategies for noncommunicative attorney

[sanemom]

Our attorney has been trying to get a hold of BPDmom's attorney for the past week and a half to demand that DSD and DH get counseling, but her attorney has not replied (probably because he is not getting paid).  Do you know of any things our attorney can do to force her attorney to respond in some fashion?  An emergency hearing?  DH sent an email to our attorney, but he is slammed right now so I am guessing we will have to wait another couple of days for his ideas.

[DreamGirl]

Is there something in your order that says you need her consent to enter counseling?

Would it be reasonable to get a counselor, inform her that it's to help the father/daughter relationship and then let her say no or deal with it on her end?  Maybe getting a recommendation from SD's counselor who she's seeing right now? (Doesn't your SD want counseling with Dad?)

When I wasn't getting a response from the other party in my own custody case - my attorney filed a motion to compel; but that had to do with producing his financial information.

When is your next hearing?

Is it something that constitutes an emergency or can it be addressed at hearing?

[scraps66]

I wish I knew.  My ex was Pro Se for a long time giving her the opportunity to not communicate.  An emergency hearing may not get approved as it would be taken as trivial and, "oh, it's soo busy at the courthouse and we can't seem to allow just anything come in here."  In some cases, like my L, having a Pro Se litigant or someone who is unrepresented can allow YOUR L to slow things down.  Some L's carte blanche will not communicate with a Pro Se litigant, just because.

Others may say different, but I think the emergency hearing would not work.  I think emergency hearing's are meant to be used when an Order is not being followed or an agreement was already in place.    

I did this, I took my ex to court because she wouldn't consent to counseling for our S8.  If and when you get to this point:  1.  Have a psychololgist in mind, a PhD psychologist, have names; 2. Make sure both parties are invovled in the counseling; 3.  I would recommend the counsleing take place with either parent, but not with both parents in the room with the children; 4.  Make sure ex is given strict instructions not to interfere with any of the scheduling, proceedings, not to communciate with the Dr. w/o other parent involved, etc.

On the other hand, and what i wish I would have done.  I tried to do everything on the QT... .  you COULD try to take the kids, on your time, w/o ex involved.  If you are asked, ":)o you have custody of the children?"  Your answer COULD be, "YES,"... .  at this particular point in time, yes, i have custody, and unilaterally cut the ex out of the picture, innocently, but certainly.  I only advocate this becasue, although we eventually took S8 to counseling, it was useless having STBx involved.  In fact, I almost looked bad.  I had found a Dr., per the Order, ex said blah, blah... .  where is the session, who is doing it, that's too far!  Can we go on Saturdays, i can't od during the week... .  blah, blah.  She then found a Social Worker - and it was useless and strssful for S8.  Good job mom.

             

[sanemom]

Is there something in your order that says you need her consent to enter counseling?

Would it be reasonable to get a counselor, inform her that it's to help the father/daughter relationship and then let her say no or deal with it on her end?  Maybe getting a recommendation from SD's counselor who she's seeing right now? (Doesn't your SD want counseling with Dad?)

When I wasn't getting a response from the other party in my own custody case - my attorney filed a motion to compel; but that had to do with producing his financial information.

When is your next hearing?

Is it something that constitutes an emergency or can it be addressed at hearing?

We don't even have a hearing OR mediation set because her lawyer will not communicate (we had one set previously, but then that lawyer fired her).  We do not need consent, but we have been unable to find a counselor who works on the weekends when he has DSD.

After BPD mom withheld DSD from coming the last weekend, DH thought it would be best to push the counseling ASAP to prevent any further alienation tactics from taking hold.

[DreamGirl]

We don't even have a hearing OR mediation set because her lawyer will not communicate (we had one set previously, but then that lawyer fired her).  We do not need consent, but we have been unable to find a counselor who works on the weekends when he has DSD.

For me, I'd go this route.

There is absolutely no counselors that can do weekends?

My son's counselor ONLY did weekends (and after 5:00pm).  

[scraps66]

If it's alienation that's going on, contact with the kids is very important and counseling will not have an as immediate effect.  If i was going to schedule an emergency hearing, withholding children from a parent is a very common and very justified reason for that type of Petition.  Get ":)ivorce Poison" and start practicing the steps for diminishing the effects of alienating behavior.

[Matt]

Talk with the school counselor, and get a referral to a counselor in private practice.  Thay way, you can't be accused of shopping for a counselor who will "take your side".

Schedule the counseling session during school hours, or right after.  Take the child out of school if necessary, or pick her up after school, take her to counseling, and then to her mom's house, if that's where she's supposed to be.

From:  Father

To:  Mother

I will pick up Daughter from school today and bring her to your house by 5:00.

Don't tell SD not to tell her mom where she was.

Keep your lawyer informed but don't involve the other lawyer.  He isn't SD's parent and he won't have to deal with her 15 years from now when the full impact of her mom's behavior is evident.

Instruct your attorney to keep the other attorney informed only of stuff which is a legal obligation, which doesn't include this subject.  Your attorney should send the other attorney one note, and no more - if he doesn't respond, it's not up to you to pay your lawyer to keep trying.

If Mom objects to the counseling, handle that depending on what she does.  If she just sends an e-mail saying she doesn't agree, ignore it.  If she objects to taking SD to counseling on "her" time, then do it during school hours.  If she raises it as a legal issue, then file a response and let the judge decide.

You guys need to learn to quit asking permission to do what's right.

By the way - for whatever it's worth - I did exactly this, except I took them to counseling (8 and 10 at the time) after school, and it was "my" time, so I didn't have that complication.

Their mom tried to make an issue of it during the custody case.  I just told the truth - both kids had shown signs of stress, their mom was acting out in big ways, and I thought it would be best for them to see a counselor, so I took them to the one suggested by the school counselor, and it helped.  The court didn't punish me at all;  in fact my wife was ordered to pay half the cost of the counseling.  The lesson I learned - which I hope is what you see too - is that if you just do what's best for the kids, and if you're prepared to explain what you did and why, you have nothing to fear.

(The other lesson might be, if you are willing to pay attorneys to send unnecessary e-mails to each other, they'll be glad to take your money.)

[tog]

FYI, my SO got his hand slapped a couple times for taking SS to a counselor to work on their relationship without notifying stbx. He did it before it was ordered, under his name, and then took him back to that same guy AFTER it was ordered, and he got yelled at. Then it was ordered again and the two of them went to a counselor that stbx was allowed to see once too. That ended up backfiring in her face because that counselor felt there was no issue between SS and SO and that the problem was the conflict between the two of them, so now stbx is stuck doing co-parent counseling (every session she alludes to the fact that this was supposed to be about their terrible relationship and not about HER).

Just because you think it's right doesn't mean the court will. I wouldn't do it without the court's permission, honestly, given what we've experienced. Especially since DSD is so aligned with mom, she will surely protest and make it seem like a bad thing.

[sanemom]

Our main problem is DH does not have DSD until 6pm Friday night until 6pm Sunday night--hard hours to work with.  Today DH found a counselor who can see them at 5pm on Friday so he spoke with his attorney to see how to get it pushed through, and the attorney is going to contact the GAL first.  He also wants to set up a mediation time ASAP, but again, is not getting replies from BPD mom's attorney on that one either.  I really don't care if the opposing side thinks we are shopping for a counselor--we are--we are shopping for one that knows about PA tactics and can help DH and DSD get through this.  I DID see one who took weekend appointments, but she graduated from an online university... .  not sure we trust that.

[Matt]

Take her to counseling during school hours.

If you research how a BPD parent affects a child, you can find that kids raised by a parent with an untreated personality disorder are at much higher risk of lots of stuff by the time they are adults - substance abuse, depression, eating disorders, etc. - you name it, a child raised by someone with BPD is at much, much higher risk.

Best would be to have supervised visitation for the parent with BPD.  Until you can achieve that, counseling is the best way to reduce the risk.

Your lawyer will tell you not to do it, because your lawyer probably doesn't care about the child and probably has no knowledge or experience with how a parent's BPD affects a child.  He cares about the case, not the child.  You have to decide what is best for the child.