I wanted contact again, I do love the relationship

[jaird]

I have to say this relationship with my ex is really draining me. I feel like it is literally taking years off my life. I guess I am just here to vent. I know it's my own behavior that caused me to be hurt again. I know it's my own fault for not being able to fully disengage. I know everyone on these boards, every ex, seems to have the same kind of problems and hurt the same way. Anyway, here's what happened, and I appreciate any support or comments:

I admit I have not been able to go no contact for more than 3 days or so. I just miss her so much, since we used to text all day, talk at lunchtime, and talk at night. Last night she started texting me from her work cell. At first it started out OK, then it quickly went bad and she got on a nasty rant. The subject of her rant was that I was discussing a song with a woman on Facebook, and I had said happy Valentines day to the woman. My ex had me blocked on FB, but unexpectedly unblocked me right around VD.

Anyway, this woman is nothing but a FB friend, no romantic interest. My ex went on and on for an hour about how this woman is a worn out looking fat woman. I finally had to block her work cell.

This morning, I guess I wanted contact again, I do love the relationship I had with my ex. I unblocked her work cell, and asked her why couldn't she just be nice? We then texted again for an hour, and it was a decent conversation, but the same circuitous conversation we have been having for a year-past issues, things that happened 18 months ago. She then called me and I do love hearing her voice. She told me during the call how she cannot open up her heart to me again. She said I had hurt her too much, and not respected her. She said she was happy now, calm and smiling, and that when she was with me she turned into a jealous, possessive crazy woman, and she didn't like being that woman. I pointed out that all our problems had to do with the long distance relationship we had, and seeing each other only three days a month. I again told her that I was willing to move 1000 miles to be with her, live near her, and I felt we both owed it to ourselves to at least try having a "normal" relationship, where we live near each other and see each other daily. We then made plans to talk late tonight, as we used to do but have not since she she broke up with me two months ago. She was kind of noncommittal about talking later tonight, but it was pretty much agreed upon. She said she was going to her grandson's birthday party, and didn't know what time she would be home. I pointed out that I was pretty sure she would be home from a 5 year olds party by 11:30 PM.

A few hours later she calls me, around 4 PM, and she is home again. She says that she cannot talk tonight because she is going out. She did not want to be rude and keep me waiting by the phone. She does not say where she is going, or who she is going with. She sounds happy. I tell her that she can do whatever she likes, and then I block her home phone, work cell, three email addresses I have for her, and delete all her old emails. I feel like every time I have contact with her, since we broke up two months ago, she has caused me pain. I think a lot of the time she caused me pain on purpose, or at least seemed to enjoy causing me pain. Though she has repeatedly said she does not want to cause me pain.

She also told me about a few days ago that she was now seeing a man. She said it was a "noncommited relationship", and that it was fun. She said they had just been seeing each other a few weeks. When i pointed out that she had told me a few times that if she met a new man, I would be the first to know, she said that that was before we had broken up, and that she met this man after we had broken up. So, in essence, all bets were off about informing since she had ended our relationship previously. I also pointed out that she had often said that if our relationship ended, she would not be able to date for months a she would need time to figure out who she is and get her head straight.

She also told me recently that she did not drink anymore, but then today she mentioned that she "can have a few beers and nothing happens". She never drank beer when we were together, she was always a wine drinker, which leads me to believe that she is mirroring her new man.

She also mentioned recently that she was in therapy. I tried to get more information on that today, and she admitted that she only goes once a month. I told her that I had been reading extensively on BPD these past six weeks or so, and that I felt she was a classic case, and I thought she should read up on it more. She kind of dismissed this by saying everyone has some kind of psychosis, and that the people on the Jerry Springer show were really crazy, but she was not. Mind you, in the past she took the online test for BPD, failed it, told me she had BPD, bought me a book on loving someone with BPD, described herself several times as "a psycho" and "crazy". But now she pretty much denies having BPD, and says all her problems were caused by me and my bad behavior of 18 months ago.

She also ranted last night about why I had not sent her flowers or a Valentine's Day card. I pointed out that I had sent her a card about ten days before VD, and she never even acknowledged receiving it. I also pointed out that as of Feb. 9 and 10th, when I was thinking about crds and flowers, she kept telling me to get lost, and that we are done.

So, I guess I need some resources (moderators?). I have been calling psychologists from the health insurance company website for two weeks, and all I hear is they no longer take my insurance, or they don't call me back when I mention my insurance, or their numbers are disconnected. I do have an appt with one female psych in about ten days.

Is it "normal" to blame me for not sending cards/flowers after she broke up with me six weeks prior?

Is it "normal" for her to sound so happy to be rid of me and have moved on so quickly?

Is it "normal" for her to rant and rave about me sharing a song with another woman on FB, and saying happy VD to a friend?

I guess none of this is really "normal". But I feel like I am breaking, as communication with her was such a big part of my life.

[Cimbaruns]

Luckyescapee

There are many here that are much further along in there journey... .  and can certainly offer you better advice... .  but I can certainly relate to how you are feeling right now... .  

I found on the Workshop board a thread under Tools: Triggering and the wise mind.

I found it very useful.

My T and I also talked about it a bit this week

It's so easy to be driven by all of these emotions that are triggered by our SOBPD partners... .  

I hear you totally

I for one am working very hard at practicing this each and everyday

Peace to you... .  you are not alone

[jaird]

Thank you. Seems there are a lot of us.

[GreenMango]

jaird I felt old too trying to deal with riding that rollercoaster.

The broke up, don't wanna see ya anymore... .  but you better chase me and send me flowers sounds like she expects a little mind reading.

Do you want to be in a relationship with her?  It's okay if you do.  I ask because trying kings a little differently, with the staying board tools, might help get you to point where you have your feet underneath you more.

[jaird]

Thank you Green Mango.

Yes, I would like to try having a "normal" relationship with my ex, as opposed to long distance. I truly believe that I owe it to myself, and we both owe it to ourselves, to at least try to have this type of relationship.

We have always been limited by being 1000 miles apart and seeing each other only 3 days a month. But the time has come when my family obligations here are done, and I was to move and live by her. The problem is, and she cannot get past this, that for two years it was a part time relationship that she was not proud of, and that she felt judged by others, and that she feels I hurt her and did not respect her.

There is certainly some truth to that. I don't believe the respect part, but because of raising my kids and doing things for my mother, she was not my top priority during our two years together. Now that the time has come when I want to make her top priority, she seems to have this tape that she just replays in her head about these things she thinks of as past slights.

I will check out the other thread, but I do believe it may be too late now. Now there is a lot of hurt on both sides of the fence.

[Take2]

jaird... .  

Its been just as big a back and forth between my exbf and me.

I have gone back and forth between boards when I have considered staying again.

I too feel that my ex and I have the most unbelievable connection that it is truly heart breaking to not be able to give it our all.

Yet that said... .  in my experience, it has just continued to get worse all the way around.

He accuses me of throwing myself at every man,  he accuses me of cheating,  he tells me how evil I am,  etc.  Having no basis in reality.  My point is that it has just continued to get progressively worse.  To the point that upon finding out about his lies two days ago that I became the one who raged.  Of course my "rage" lasted only ten minutes and was minor in comparison to his. But it showed me how much I have been affected by this damaging situation I have continued to allow occur.

And now of course  I am not only to blame for every problem we ever had... .  but now he acts like I went crazy . I yelled yes.  I slammed down the wine bottle (it did not break).  I took off his shirt since he decided I must be kicked out, so as I went to put my work blouse back on,  I threw his tshirt across the room. Not at him.  Not anything.

And now I am dangerous?  

Way to avoid accepting responsibility for getting caught in multiple lies about being on a dating website and texting another girl... .  

My advise, get out before you move across the country... .  

But only you know what your situation is like and if it is good to you... .  

Just take your time... .  

[jaird]

Thanks take2. I can relate to your post so much, it brought a smile to my face 

I have been accused of all the same things, talking to women, seducing women, playing "footsie" on Facebook with women (whatever that is!), and all of these accusations are without basis.

I was asked why I discuss my issues with women on FB, and not my male friends. The truth is, I discuss very little with either sex, but lately it has been more with my male friends. My ex implied that she "knows", I don't talk to my male friends. But from what i gather from them, they don't talk to her much at all, and certainly not about me. So this was kind of a lie.

My ex takes no responsibility for her rages, rants, venomous texts and emails over the last two years. Honestly, she does not remember half of them because she was drunk at the time. But still, I asked her for only a couple things in two years-cut down on the drinking, try therapy, and try and provide a calm and stable environment for me to move to. She did none of these, but now she says she is not drinking. A day later she says she drinks beer now. Who knows what the truth is?

She claims every nasty episode was my fault, brought about by my behavior, when in fact most of these things she thinks I did were in her own head.

There is so much projection and splitting, and now there is more lying than ever before. I never knew her to lie early in the relationship. And of course now I am a major cause of stress in her life, and that is why she can't trust me and won't "open her heart" to me again.

This from a person who fled a foreign country with two kids after leaving her first husband, broke up with her second husband, and lost a child. She has had tremendous stress in her life, and I wonder if this stress is not all cumulative. Seems strange to say a BF of two years is the major cause of her stress, but that's what she says.

[Take2]

So then why do you think moving will make anything better?

I know the intense feeling to make sure you give it your all for the feeling you have when its good.

But just think about whether or not its realistic to make it work.

And if it doesn't will you be prepared so far from your regular life.

Will you have friends or family there?

I just know how horrible it feels without having moved... .  

[stevenq]

jaird i completely understand and empathize with you. Your ex sounds alot like my ex BPD gf. I ended my relationship 11weeks ago and have had NC. I did miss all our texts and calls at first but i realized it was unhealthy. Your ex is always going to blame u and make you feel guilty. Thats what they do. Blame her disorder! Know she cant change and if she does it will take a long long time. Life is too short. You deserve to b treated w respect. I say take care of u first! This is your time.

[jaird]

Thanks again stevenq and take2

So many people going through the same thing. Take2, I feel you on the projection thing. My ex started telling me I was narcissistic and bipolar. I know I am not bipolar, far from it, but I did take the online test for narcissism and passed it, LOL. I had four of the traits, but you needed five to be considered narcissistic.     But I know what you mean, I have raged at my ex too, though usually only for a few minutes. It comes after she continuously accuses me of things that are not true, and she does not listen to reason. There is only so much character assassination anyone can take.

I did a little more research after I said in a post that I might be narcissistic, or have narcissistic tendencies, since I was a people pleaser who wanted to be liked and loved. I'm glad the moderator pointed out my wrong belief. I read up on narcissism, and narcissists are like Gordon Gecko in the movie Wall St. They care about no one, and use people to get ahead. I'm glad I am nothing like that. I am, in many ways, quite the opposite, as I suspect many exes seeking help on these boards are. I am a people pleaser, and I like to fix things, help people, and all that. I do enjoy giving advice and trying to help people with any issues they have.

My ex actually has herself convinced that I do this expecting some return from people. She actually says it is a seduction technique I use on women. It angers her tremendously that I am a people person, outgoing, joking, and I will actually talk to strangers sometimes. She is not like this at all, and I don't know if she is jealous that I can do this, or she does not understand it, but now she seems to hate that this is the way I am. I think it's a good quality to have, but of course she tries to turn it against me and look for a hidden motive.

Thanks for the kind words Steven. I do appreciate the support.

And my reason for wanting to move is kind of personal. I am in an unhappy marriage here. Not terrible, but I'm bored and it's the proverbial dead marriage. And no, where I want to go I would not have any family close by. I would have a few relatives about 4 hours away by car, so I would have to sink or swim on my own. I was hoping the ex, who lives nearby, would be big enough to at least let me stay with her while I look for an apartment, and stay friendly with me while I get settled. Looks like that is not going to happen, and I would hate to move to an area "cold" and know no one.

I just feel like it's time for me to move. If I can't have the ex, maybe I can have the closeness with another woman that is similar to what I had with the ex, and what is lacking here at home. My kids are grown, and I am still fairly young. I know I should not make any rash decisions now, being all emotional about my break up with the ex GF, but I kind of feel like it's now or never as far as my age.

[GreenMango]

It's okay to put your responsibility of raising your kids first.  Sometimes these relationships come with unreasonable expectations.

I kind of feel like it's now or never as far as my age.

This is a hard place to be because it could lead you to accept things that might not be acceptable.  Maybe question this thought a bit more.

[Take2]

I did a little more research after I said in a post that I might be narcissistic, or have narcissistic tendencies, since I was a people pleaser who wanted to be My ex actually has herself convinced that I do this expecting some return from people. She actually says it is a seduction technique I use on women. It angers her tremendously that I am a people person, outgoing, joking, and I will actually talk to strangers sometimes. She is not like this at all, and I don't know if she is jealous that I can do this, or she does not understand it, but now she seems to hate that this is the way I am. I think it's a good quality to have, but of course she tries to turn it against me and look for a hidden motive.

I just feel like it's time for me to move. If I can't have the ex, maybe I can have the closeness with another woman that is similar to what I had with the ex, and what is lacking here at home. My kids are grown, and I am still fairly young. I know I should not make any rash decisions now, being all emotional about my break up with the ex GF, but I kind of feel like it's now or never as far as my age.

I could have written most of this from the female point of view.  I too have always been a people pleaser, always want people to like me.  I used to be a very outgoing, friendly person.  I used to be extremely social.  All of that has changed over the past three years in attempts to please him and show him how wrong he is about me - always claiming that everything I do is to get attention from men.  

And though I am not married, I do still live with the father of my 5 year old.  It's a dead relationship.  We haven't been intimately involved for over 4 years.  We are just trying to do the right thing for our daughter.  But it's truly heartbreaking for me to be stuck in this situation - and feel like I will wind up too old to connect with anyone else.  

And my ex threw that in my face over and over also.  Easy for him to do since he is significantly younger than me.

Anyway - I've known there was something wrong with him for two years.  Have been in therapy to make sure that if and when I do move out on my own, it will not be for him.  Because I am afraid of the depression I will surely go thru and do not want to be like that as a model for my daughter.  

So... .  today is another day.  I will see him at work - we work in close proximity.  So hard to detach in this situation... .  

Good luck to you today... .  

[jaird]

It's okay to put your responsibility of raising your kids first.  Sometimes these relationships come with unreasonable expectations.

I kind of feel like it's now or never as far as my age.

This is a hard place to be because it could lead you to accept things that might not be acceptable.  Maybe question this thought a bit more.

Thanks again GM. I am not rushing anything at this point. I start seeing a psych the day after tomorrow. I will have to pay out of pocket, but it is reasonable at $45 a session. reasonable for the NYC suburbs anyway. My insurance company website is full of dead ends, it's great insurance for medicals doctors and specialists, but the psych people either do not take the insurance anymore, or closed up shop, or changed their phone numbers.

Anyway, this psychologist said he would meet me and see if he is a match for what I need. If not, he said he would refer me elsewhere. I like the fact that he called me back twice immediately early in the morning and actually spent a few minutes talking to me.

I probably have PTSD or something from the break up with my ex. Not so much the break up itself, but the way she did, literally weeks before I was to stay with her and look for my own apartment in her area. This after two years of saying she wanted to be a regular, not long distance couple.

I saw her real fear of abandonment when she said that she feared i would go down to see her, find an apartment, sign a lease, and then return home to load up my car and not be able to leave because of my kids or some family emergency.

[jaird]

It's okay to put your responsibility of raising your kids first.  Sometimes these relationships come with unreasonable expectations.

I kind of feel like it's now or never as far as my age.

This is a hard place to be because it could lead you to accept things that might not be acceptable.  Maybe question this thought a bit more.

Yes, my ex actually referred to my two grown sons, and an ex I am not divorced from yet, as "baggage". This from a woman with three grown children, one of whom is probably bipolar or has some serious issues, two grandchildren, and an entire dysfunctional family of alcoholics who rage. SMH

[jaird]

I did a little more research after I said in a post that I might be narcissistic, or have narcissistic tendencies, since I was a people pleaser who wanted to be My ex actually has herself convinced that I do this expecting some return from people. She actually says it is a seduction technique I use on women. It angers her tremendously that I am a people person, outgoing, joking, and I will actually talk to strangers sometimes. She is not like this at all, and I don't know if she is jealous that I can do this, or she does not understand it, but now she seems to hate that this is the way I am. I think it's a good quality to have, but of course she tries to turn it against me and look for a hidden motive.

I just feel like it's time for me to move. If I can't have the ex, maybe I can have the closeness with another woman that is similar to what I had with the ex, and what is lacking here at home. My kids are grown, and I am still fairly young. I know I should not make any rash decisions now, being all emotional about my break up with the ex GF, but I kind of feel like it's now or never as far as my age.

I could have written most of this from the female point of view.  I too have always been a people pleaser, always want people to like me.  I used to be a very outgoing, friendly person.  I used to be extremely social.  All of that has changed over the past three years in attempts to please him and show him how wrong he is about me - always claiming that everything I do is to get attention from men.  

And though I am not married, I do still live with the father of my 5 year old.  It's a dead relationship.  We haven't been intimately involved for over 4 years.  We are just trying to do the right thing for our daughter.  But it's truly heartbreaking for me to be stuck in this situation - and feel like I will wind up too old to connect with anyone else.  

And my ex threw that in my face over and over also.  Easy for him to do since he is significantly younger than me.

Anyway - I've known there was something wrong with him for two years.  Have been in therapy to make sure that if and when I do move out on my own, it will not be for him.  Because I am afraid of the depression I will surely go thru and do not want to be like that as a model for my daughter.  

So... .  today is another day.  I will see him at work - we work in close proximity.  So hard to detach in this situation... .  

Good luck to you today... .  

I really do feel for you take2. You have to work with your ex and see him every day? Isn't there any possibility of a new job or at least a transfer? Is it possible to speak to management about this?

[Take2]

I could find a new job probably but it likely wouldn't be at the same level that I'm at right now - or would take longer to find.  I have incredible flexibility with my boss right now though and it's so important given having a small child that I can't let that go.

I like my job, it's a really good position and I like my other coworkers.  I'm very fortunate at work otherwise and I truly don't want to have to walk away from it.

But I do have doubts on whether or not I can stay like this.  I have true fear today because a male coworker contacted me yesterday (about WORK).  But if my ex finds out - I just can't go thru his freak out again.  The last one a few weeks back (over this same man speaking to me - again about WORK) - was so bad that I had to leave work by 9:30am one day and was a true disaster the next day when I did go.

:'(

[jaird]

I could find a new job probably but it likely wouldn't be at the same level that I'm at right now - or would take longer to find.  I have incredible flexibility with my boss right now though and it's so important given having a small child that I can't let that go.

I like my job, it's a really good position and I like my other coworkers.  I'm very fortunate at work otherwise and I truly don't want to have to walk away from it.

But I do have doubts on whether or not I can stay like this.  I have true fear today because a male coworker contacted me yesterday (about WORK).  But if my ex finds out - I just can't go thru his freak out again.  The last one a few weeks back (over this same man speaking to me - again about WORK) - was so bad that I had to leave work by 9:30am one day and was a true disaster the next day when I did go.

Document everything he does as far as harassing, both with Human Resources and/or management, and the police.

Every police department should have some type of domestic violence officer these days. If not, at least go to the station and speak to someone. If you can legitimately describe why you are fearful, and you certainly sound fearful, then they should at least take a report. Bring your report number with you, or provide it later to mgmt/HR.

I can't imagine any company not being sensitive to this issue. It's not about you finding a new job, it's about your ex finding a new job, being transferred, or behaving normally.

An ex is an ex. We have to realize that. They are not in our lives anymore.

Here's a funny update on me-I received an email from my ex. I'm not even sure how it got through, since I blocked her email address. Maybe it went through before the block took effect, or maybe it went through because she sent it from her phone. I spoke a few days ago to her best friend. I described the situation to her friend and told her friend to tell my ex that I still loved her.

Today I got an email "U will stop talking to my friend or I will call your mother-Understood?"

I got a good laugh out of that. She seems to think I fear my mother or cannot stand up to my mother. That was somewhat true a year or two ago, but it is not true now. I am quite capable of guarding my privacy from my mother.

I wrote her back-"I will speak to whomever I want. If you want to harass a 75 year old woman, and my mom gets upset. I will direct her to make a police report. Your days as a hospice nurse may be numbered if you get arrested for harassing an elderly woman. I would think at the very least, your company would have to suspend you until any criminal action is settled. You may be able to return to work there after the charges are disposed of, but then again maybe not. You may have to go to work elsewhere".

:'(

[GreenMango]

nyk,

Good to hear you found a therapist and he sounds like a pretty open guy.  That's a good thing.

So what's up with the back and forth with her over email.  I understand the need to get some closure here, but if she's going to lash out with hostility and it leads to threatening each other it seems like it may not be such a good thing.  Now you know how she's going to react if she senses you are near her.

my ex actually referred to my two grown sons, and an ex I am not divorced from yet, as "baggage".

This is a pretty awful thing to say about someone's kids. 

Things getting any better?  It can take some time to wrap your head around how things panned out and the ending of the relationship right before you two were to move together. 

[jaird]

nyk,

Good to hear you found a therapist and he sounds like a pretty open guy.  That's a good thing.

So what's up with the back and forth with her over email.  I understand the need to get some closure here, but if she's going to lash out with hostility and it leads to threatening each other it seems like it may not be such a good thing.  Now you know how she's going to react if she senses you are near her.

my ex actually referred to my two grown sons, and an ex I am not divorced from yet, as "baggage".

This is a pretty awful thing to say about someone's kids. 

Things getting any better?  It can take some time to wrap your head around how things panned out and the ending of the relationship right before you two were to move together. 

Hi Green,

The back and forth with email and texts was due to the fact that 18 months ago she told me she had BPD, and she sent me the book, I think it's called Loving Someone with BPD, and she asked me if I was in this for the long haul. I said yes, I was. So I guess I really, really had to make sure that this is what she wanted, to break up. I felt I had to exhaust all possibilities that this was just a phase and she would be back as she has come back after so many other arguments. That, and I was extremely hurt by the way she ended the relationship, and the way she chose to shut me out of her life. I was with her for six days, and we traveled and had a good time. I came home and within a day or two she told me we were done via text. A few weeks later, we were texting again and she told me we were done via phone. I guess I really just never believed that we were really done.

But yesterday was a bit of a breakthrough for me. I had been reading some other sites on handling break ups, not BPD related, just break ups. I see now that everyone who did not initiate the break up goes through the same emotions-hurt, pain, anger, all that. I came to realize that whether she has BPD or not, and I strongly believe she does, that the bottom line is her BPD was not the cause of our breakup. My behavior was the cause of our breakup. I cheated, I lied about the cheating, until I confessed, I did not leave my wife in a timely fashion. I took the relationship with the ex for granted. I assumed that because we were so close, so alike, and because she had heaped all this praise on me about what I great man I was-I just assumed she would be there forever. I was wrong.

So yes, now I am owning my part of the failed relationship more. It was my behavior, my underlying actions, my failure to separate from my wife that caused her to leave me. Her disorder may make her rage and be able to split me, and have black and white thinking, and be able to ignore facts or twist facts-but it was me who gave her the ammunition to do all that.

I see the psychologist in a few hours-first visit. I know I need a month at least and a few visits to digest all this and figure out where I am in my life and whether I should leave my marriage and how far from my kids I could actually move and not feel lonely. I am afraid of the unknown, I have been married 25 years. I am afraid I would be lonely being far from my kids, even though they are grown. I am afraid to leave my life as I know it.

But yes, it feels a little better, and I slept better. Thank you for asking. Yesterday was the first day I stopped replaying all our conversations and times together and wondering "how could she do this to me?". I had been doing that for about six weeks, and that was too long.

We were always in different stages in the relationship. She told me she feel in love with me over Facebook, or at least very quickly after meeting me. I don't believe that was love, but it is what she felt at the time. It took me nine months after first meeting her to realize that I was in love, and I still did not leave my marriage, I still went on family vacations and trips with my wife. That tore her apart. By the time I felt all my obligations to my wife and kids as far as vacations and trips were done, and I had the financial part worked out in my mind, more than two years had passed since I first met the ex. So when the time came that I was ready to break it off with my wife, the ex was worn out and tired of waiting. She could take no more. She was tired of playing second fiddle to a married man that lived 1000 miles away. She knew I would always have my kids and my ex 1000 miles away. She knew I while I would separate, I had no desire to rush into a divorce. She felt that she would still come after my kids or my wife/ex wife at certain times-illness, an important family activity, whatever. Her new man, if he even exits, is supposedly single and has no children. That is what she always wanted-to be first in someone's life. And while myself and my ex both have adult children, she considers my wife to be baggage, as well as a sick mother in law. She knows even after separation I would be tied to my ex wife forever, for life, because that is the type of relationship it is, and I love her as a person. My ex just couldn't deal with all that. She wants an easy relationship now that she does not have to hide. She just wants easy 

[GreenMango]

Sounds like you are coming to terms with your part and seeing the relationship dynamic a little clearer.  It can be really painful to look at that part.

One of the resources we have here says that water seeks its own level.  We get involved with people with the same or complementary maturity.  Relationships of this kind seem to have quite a bit of unreasonable expectations from both sides.   Then when things aren't working out both parties are disappointed and neither have the skills to work it out so the conflict escalated.  Both parties get more hurt ... .  And the conflict escalates, more hurt... .  

It's not all you and its not all her.  I know with mine we made a pretty toxic mix together.

You still married?  Do you want to work on your marriage?

  Glad to hear the ruminating has stopped. Let us know how your appointment goes.

[jaird]

Hi GM

Here is a copy and paste of a message I sent, so it may not read quite right. But yes, this was a breakthrough day for me. Not because of the psychologist, but because of having lunch with a stranger:

My appointment with the psych? Well, he certainly has a lot of experience. He's board certified. he looks to be at least 65, and he has a wall full of certificates. All that being said, he didn't seem to know what BPD was, it was like he never heard of it. he said not to put too much emphasis on internet tests and diagnosis's. But he is a nice guy and I'll see him again. He said my ex was a tormentor, and like a child she was given to temper tantrums. He said she was a master manipulator.

But the most amazing thing happened after the session. I went to work out, and then this woman who I don't really know but she is on FB and we are friends, sent me a message a couple of days ago about going for lunch. She must have seen me venting on FB, and I guess she was nice to me. I then asked her like a week ago if she knows a good psychologist. She told me she had a whole circle of friends who do referrals for each other, doctors, whoever. She then got back to me about 5-6 days ago and gave me the name of a doctor. I called that doc, but I forget if she never called me back, or she didn't take my insurance. Anyway, I guess we discussed going for lunch, but I have been so upset that I don't even recall the conversation. So she messages me Monday and says I can meet you for lunch Wed or Thurs. I'm still thinking she lives in the next town, so I say OK. Then she tells me that she lives an hour away now, and she wants to meet me at a Fridays thats like 25 minutes from me. I was kind of bummed out today, and I was looking to blow her off. I really didn't feel like eating with a stranger. But i messaged her and she said it was a go, and she was driving like 25 minutes to get there, so I went.

Turns out she went to school with my sister, who passed away in 1989. We talked about that, and then I opened up to her about my ex and the relationship. She seemed like a nice woman, intelligent, warm, and does a lot of volunteer work. I mentioned BPD, and she said her nephew had BPD. She said it was horrible. it's her sisters son, and he is the same age as her son, like 22-23, and she has watched him grow up with it and she has seen all her sisters family has gone through. She said no one should be involved with someone who has BPD, and the only people in their lives are family who really have no choice.

Anyway, were in the parking lot after lunch, smoking cigarettes and I hug her and she tells me this "You have to realize that the person you loved never really existed. It was all a con. A fraud. There is no such person. She mirrored you, and now she is mirroring someone else. If you see it that way, the person you fell in love with was yourself. That's why it felt so perfect. So now just love yourself, and heal, and stay away from her don't get sucked back in. They really have no empathy, no feelings for anyone else, and they do and say whatever it takes to get whatever it is they want. Then when whatever they wanted does not make them happy, they push the other person away, blame the other person for the relationship failing, and believe that the other person is an impediment to their being happy with a new person."

It sounded so strange at first-how could a person not exist, how could an entire person be a fraud. But I understood what she meant, and I know how my ex often said she felt like an empty shell. And then it started to make sense. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that it made a lot of sense, and it was all probably true.

I come home and find three emails from the ex who asked me to stop contacting her and emailing her, LOL. The first says "our relationship made me sad". The second one says "you are a bad man and do mean things. I can tell by the people you have added to your FB account" Mind you, she is blocked, and has not seen my friends in months, and 60 of my friends are her friends too. The third email says "please don't text my work tablet. I am allowed only 300 minutes a month, and I used 1000 this month". Now this is really strange because I almost never texted her work tablet, I have texted it maybe 10 times in my entire life, and not at all in the last few weeks. How many "minutes" could ten text messages use up.

So i just told her about the texting, and ignored the other statements. Then later I wrote to her about the one about being sad. I just paraphrased what the woman said to me:

"Your ex husband was not an impediment to you being happy. You left him and I was supposed to be this great man who would make you happy. But I am just a human being with flaws, and all I can do is work on my flaws. I am not an impediment to your new relationship making you happy. Pushing me aside and blocking me out of your life will not make you happy in a new relationship. We all have baggage, find someone who wants to help you unpack. And at the end of the day we are all alone, and we have to live in our own skin. It's nice to have a long term relationship where you are compatible with someone and that person understands you and accepts you."