UBPD/alcoholic husband says he wants to change

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello ---

Since the first of the year, my relationship with uBPDh from whom I am separated but still in a r/s with has been improving.  The improvement seems to be from my therapy, Al-Anon meetings, reading, and improving my communication skills.  In the midst, he's had a couple of dysregulation cycles.  The most recent began three weeks ago and I think he was triggered by a visit from his D21 from his first marriage.  For some reason, her visits trigger him.

My H is an alcoholic.  Prior to this cycle, I had begun questioning if I was enabling him by staying in the r/s while he continued to drink.  My boundary was that he not drink at my house or when we have dates.  He told me earlier in the year that he didn't want to quit drinking but that he would cut down significantly, which wasn't defined.

Just before and during this cycle, I could tell he was drinking more.  I could hear it in his voice and he was not remembering some of our telephone conversations.  This made me feel hurt, angry, betrayed, scared so I let him have it and told him what I thought, repeatedly in some cases - he's an alcoholic, he's blacking out, the amount he drinks will damage his liver and kill him, that his drinking will affect his two young children who visit EOW, it's impossible to have an emotionally intimate relationship with an addict, etc., etc., etc.  I told him it was narcissistic to think that he doesn't have a drinking problem and that his drinking doesn't affect other people.

He blamed his drinking on me, told me I was judgmental, etc., etc., etc.

One one hand, I felt I was taking steps backward - as in not using my newly learned communication skills.  On the other hand, I felt like I had to let him know.  Anyway, I did it over the course of the three week cycle and it wasn't always pretty.

Today we were talking on the phone, he told me he loves me and misses me and I told him I love and miss him and we made plans to see each other this weekend.  Then he proceeded to tell me he loves me more than he's ever loved anyone, he feels the same love from me, that I'm beautiful, he can't imagine being with another woman, it would kill him if I were with another man, he wants our r/s to make it and thrive.  He said if I could change my tactics and just love him that he wants to change but needs my support to do it.  He needs me to be there for him when he gets "jittery."

Then he came over tonight and is spending the night.  I honestly do love him but it's so frustrating.  What if he's just telling me what I want to hear?  I hate to get my hopes up but this is the first time he's said he will totally quit drinking.  I guess we will see.  Any thoughts?

Daze

[daze]

Hello ---

Since the first of the year, my relationship with uBPDh from whom I am separated but still in a r/s with has been improving.  The improvement seems to be from my therapy, Al-Anon meetings, reading, and improving my communication skills.  In the midst, he's had a couple of dysregulation cycles.  The most recent began three weeks ago and I think he was triggered by a visit from his D21 from his first marriage.  For some reason, her visits trigger him.

My H is an alcoholic.  Prior to this cycle, I had begun questioning if I was enabling him by staying in the r/s while he continued to drink.  My boundary was that he not drink at my house or when we have dates.  He told me earlier in the year that he didn't want to quit drinking but that he would cut down significantly, which wasn't defined.

Just before and during this cycle, I could tell he was drinking more.  I could hear it in his voice and he was not remembering some of our telephone conversations.  This made me feel hurt, angry, betrayed, scared so I let him have it and told him what I thought, repeatedly in some cases - he's an alcoholic, he's blacking out, the amount he drinks will damage his liver and kill him, that his drinking will affect his two young children who visit EOW, it's impossible to have an emotionally intimate relationship with an addict, etc., etc., etc.  I told him it was narcissistic to think that he doesn't have a drinking problem and that his drinking doesn't affect other people.

He blamed his drinking on me, told me I was judgmental, etc., etc., etc.

One one hand, I felt I was taking steps backward - as in not using my newly learned communication skills.  On the other hand, I felt like I had to let him know.  Anyway, I did it over the course of the three week cycle and it wasn't always pretty.

Today we were talking on the phone, he told me he loves me and misses me and I told him I love and miss him and we made plans to see each other this weekend.  Then he proceeded to tell me he loves me more than he's ever loved anyone, he feels the same love from me, that I'm beautiful, he can't imagine being with another woman, it would kill him if I were with another man, he wants our r/s to make it and thrive.  He said if I could change my tactics and just love him that he wants to change but needs my support to do it.  He needs me to be there for him when he gets "jittery."

Then he came over tonight and is spending the night.  I honestly do love him but it's so frustrating.  What if he's just telling me what I want to hear?  I hate to get my hopes up but this is the first time he's said he will totally quit drinking.  I guess we will see.  Any thoughts?

Daze

[GreenMango]

Asking clarifying questions using the communication tools isn't a crime.

He said if I could change my tactics and just love him that he wants to change but needs my support to do it.

What does this mean?  What are his expectations of you? Yadda yadda. <--- obviously these need to be reworded a bit but I think you get my drift.

Why not ask?

[fakename]

I quit drinking over a year ago. If he's serious he'll goto AA meetings regularly. It was easier for me than most. I was also able to recognize how my drinking was ruining me and my life.

The AA mtgs are essential.

[WalrusGumboot]

Lasting changes in a person's behavior are usually motivated by something that causes a strong emotional response within them. That is why people often have to hit rock bottom first before they commit to a change. I have nothing against support groups, but a person who is seriously committed to make changes in their life will do so whether somebody cheers them on or not.

What you said that really concerns me is that he is blaming you for his drinking. This does not sound like a man who has made up his mind to quit drinking. He needs to take responsibility first.

I hope for the best in his wish to quit drinking, but I would suggest that you remain on guard. He's lonely and has BPD and will probably say anything to avoid being alone.

[daze]

Thanks, guys, appreciate your input!  If anyone has ideas on wording for clarifying questions, I would appreciate it.

What does this mean?  What are his expectations of you? Yadda yadda. <--- obviously these need to be reworded a bit but I think you get my drift. wink

Why not ask?

Green Mango - I will think about the wording and ask him the clarifying questions.  If anyone has any ideas on wording/phrasing, I would appreciate it!

Fakename - he hasn't said that drinking is ruining his life.  All he said is that he doesn't want to lose me and he's wants to change.  So I can't tell if this is internally motivated or externally motivated.  Congrats on quitting drinking!  I think AA is a great program.  Al-Anon has been helping me a lot, though I'm very early in recovery - obviously! 

Lasting changes in a person's behavior are usually motivated by something that causes a strong emotional response within them. That is why people often have to hit rock bottom first before they commit to a change.

Walrus Gumboot - I don't think this is rock bottom for him by any stretch.  He hit rock bottom several years ago when his exw kicked him out, moved another man in, kept the kids, he kept drinking,and there was a court order prohibiting his drinking during visitation.

He went to rehab but left it early.  Found out about this after we married.  My opinion is that several people in his family enabled him by buying a place for him to live (he was rented a really crappy place in the town where his kids live with their mom - not much to choose from in rentals) and helping him leave rehab early.  He says he left because it was a religious place and he's not religious, felt like he was being brainwashed.  His sister lined that place up for him, which I agree was not a good match for him, but it was near the town where she lives, i.e. convenient for her.

I am not sure that he blames the drinking on me per se.  He said I made it worse.  I know I made the BPD worse before learning the communication tools.  At my Al-Anon group, they add a 4th C.  I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't cure it, but I can contribute to it.  If he takes responsibility for anything, he keeps it to himself.

My other boundary, besides not drinking around me, is no cohabitation until he has been sober for two years.  I haven't shared this boundary with him.  My T said there can be no diagnosis for him BPD-wise until he's been sober for at least 6 months and that his behavior might be due to the drinking.

Daze 

[Surnia]

Daze

Actions speaks louder than words. If he is serious about being sober he can show it with actions -----> for example joining AA meetings.

Its mostly an illusion when someone who is drinking regularly is saying: I will stop it. Without some guidance from outside like AA, the urge to drinking is often stronger.

[GreenMango]

I agree with Surnia.  Actions - base your decisions on his actions and reference it to your boundaries.  Sure fire way to not go wrong.

As far how to discuss it.

You:  Hey babe I was hoping we could talk about when you told me "I could change my tactics and just love him that he wants to change but needs my support to do it."  I'd like to understand more can you explain to me a little more?

Him:  I need this... .   You do that... .   yakkity yak yak

You:  So you are wanting more support.  I hear you need this or that.  Having a supportive partner feels great.  I think I could do this or that.  Can you tell me some of your plans on how you are going to approach the drinking issue?  How is that going to work?

Him: I haven't looked into it, or I don't know I just need support etc.

You:  It looks like you need some time to look into it more.  It's a big step.  Let's give it X days (not too long) and when we talk about then you can share with me your plan.


If he doesn't have a plan in a few days - there is no commitment to his words - they are just words.  It's about satisfying an immediate need/gratification.

Actions.

[SadWifeofBPD]

He said if I could change my tactics and just love him that he wants to change but needs my support to do it.

Is this his position: "If you just love me, care for me, help me, and don't complain about anything, then I'll be able to change?"

If that's his position, then as an Al-Anon person, you know that won't work.  You didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it. 

If that's his position then not only is he putting his success all on your back, but it gives him an "out" when he fails... .   because you weren't 100% loving, caring, helpful, and never complaining.  And, even if you were, he'd still likely claim that you weren't. 

When my alcoholic BPDH came back from rehab, he was "committed" to being sober, and I was committed to helping him.  Our older child was living with us during this time, so he'd back me up when I say that I was totally committed to helping him, loving him, not complaining, caring for him... .   I even went to AA meetings with him (when he'd actually go.) 

At two AA meetings, H ended up insulting and arguing with the person in charge of the meetings because H wouldn't respect the "no cross-talk" rule and kept talking out of turn. 


Sadly, addiction and PDs are very difficult to overcome.  The healthy spouses are always hopeful, but the predicted outcomes are not encouraging. 

Just before and during this cycle, I could tell he was drinking more.  I could hear it in his voice and he was not remembering some of our telephone conversations.  This made me feel hurt, angry, betrayed, scared so I let him have it and told him what I thought, repeatedly in some cases - he's an alcoholic, he's blacking out, the amount he drinks will damage his liver and kill him, that his drinking will affect his two young children who visit EOW, it's impossible to have an emotionally intimate relationship with an addict, etc., etc., etc.  I told him it was narcissistic to think that he doesn't have a drinking problem and that his drinking doesn't affect other people.

He blamed his drinking on me, told me I was judgmental, etc., etc., etc.

Yes, yes, yes... .   drunk during phone conversations and then not even remembering the calls.  Yes, your young children are being affected by this - shield them as much as you can. 

And, oh yes... .   of course he blames his drinking on you.  He's got a PD as well as an addiction.  He's nearly incapable of placing blame where it belongs. 

[SadWifeofBPD]

Him: I haven't looked into it, or I don't know I just need support etc.

You:  It looks like you need some time to look into it more.  It's a big step.  Let's give it X days (not too long) and when we talk about then you can share with me your plan.


If he doesn't have a plan in a few days - there is no commitment to his words - they are just words.  It's about satisfying an immediate need/gratification.

A very likely scenario.   I don't know if this is common with addicted pwBPD, but some seem to think that "talking the talk" is actually doing something.  They'll tell you "I'm going to do XXX, and I'm not going to do YYYY," and they happily think they've accomplished something.  But, then hours later, they're not following their plans.  And, God-forbid if you mention a past "talk" where certain commitments were given. 

Does your H take any medications?  Does he manage them well or mismanage them?  Does he consume any other addict-related substances... .   Adderall, sleeping pills, energy drinks, nicotine gum, Rx pain pills, etc?

You may have to be careful if you're dealing with someone who's default position is to blame someone else.  They're not really going to be open to changing any of their ways, because they've convinced themselves that they're not related to the cause at all.

[fakename]

i think there's been some good insights given here.

i just want to echo what others are saying in that when i went sober, it was because i stopped blaming others and coming up with excuses. gone were the days of i'm drinking because of this or that, or this happened so i need to drink or just being angry at myself or my life... .   i owned up responsibility.  if i was still coming up with excuses, i wouldnt have gone sober. he needs to go to aa so he has that support system and so he can be around people who understand what is going on in his mind - thats why aa works for people... .  

have to own up responsibility.  and has to do it for himself. it sounds cliche, but this is how i went sober.

( i should put a disclaimer that after about 7 months i decided to engage in drinking on special occasions - camping, my bday. its very rare that i drink, but i still do i guess. (drank on 2 occasions last year and 1 occasion this year... .   i wouldnt recommend this for others who have a drinking problem)

[blecker]

I have been working with alcoholics and addicts for nearly 25 years.

I am a recovering alcoholic. I have been Graced with the gift of sobriety and there is not a morning that I wake that I do not thank my Higher Power for the borrowed time I am able to enjoy.

When I was a drunk, I would say anything to anyone to get what I wanted and normally that was another drink, time to get another drink or the means to get another drink.

It was always the drink. People were simply tools to use, a means to an end.

I am not unique or special. I am simply another bum on the bus kind of drunk who has found a way to stay sober. That is one of my greatest discoveries about addicts. We are all the same. Like cookies from the cutter. You wouldn't pick one over another.

So I tell you that if an active alcoholic's mouth is moving he is lying. Period. We can wish and hope and pray that what he is saying is really true, that he means it this time, that this time is different, from now till the cows come home.

But it won't be true.

It won't be true until he does it one day at a time. Every day.

I wish it was different but it's not.

[daze]

Thank you all for your words, experience, and advice. We're planning a talk tomorrow and will see how it goes.

Green Mango, your example of how to approach it is helpful.

I want to say more to specific people but all I have is my iPhone which is not good for this. I will catch up tomorrow.

Thanks again,

Daze