How do you handle lying

[JKN77]

I am wondering how all of you handle lying, especially when you can't "prove" it. Before my son went to the RTC he lied all the time. Much of the time I knew he was lying but didn't call him on it because I didn't have proof and didn't want to accuse him just incase the .05% chance I was wrong. Plus, he would never admitt it and would argue it because there was no proof. But, I feel that I reinforced the premis that he can get away with things if he does lie, for the fact that he was not called on it and did get away with it.

While he was at the RTC he had to write me a letter confessing to everthing he had done and lied about. He felt great after he had done it because there were no skelitons in the closet anymore and when he cam home it was with a clean slate. Well, he has been home from the RTC for almost 8 months now and of course is lying again. I don't want him to get back to the thinking that he can get away with things because he can just lie.

So my question is, what do you do when you know your kid is lying but don't have the "smoking gun" evidence? This is with anything from minor instances to major ones.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pandamama]

THANK YOU for posting this question! I feel trapped by the same situation constantly. D17 even said to me while in acute psych care post-overdose that she can't promise not to lie; she doesn't realize she's doing it sometimes. Even that feels like a cop out but I didn't say so. Now that she's home she says there's nothing "wrong" with her, that she's not out of control of her thoughts or actions.

The current issue is that she says she's insomniac and needs us to change new restrictions so she can sleep. I think she's exaggerating to get control of something. She told her new therapist at their first session and he prescribed her Trazodone to help her sleep! Now I feel like either I'm totally wrong to doubt her or she's even managed to convince the therapist. WTH?

If I call her out, I now she'll act indignant, hurt, and make me feel horrible.

[pandamama]

I should add that, yesterday, when I did catch her for sure in a lie, I did call her out on it instantly. I know she only fessed up because I had the evidence, but I felt like if I point out the ones I know for sure, then she has less credibility to stand on when I don't.

[pessim-optimist]

I know, that is a very hard question...

We have to struggle with the same issue with our d32 (my step-daughter). She is an adult, so our situation is different than yours.

I will have to leave the ultimate answer to someone more skilled, but if I had to speculate and try to put myself in your shoes, I would try to wait for a good time when there is an apparent lie when you do have the proof and it is obvious. Then I would remain calm, and use the S.E.T. -UP communication technique to validate my child's feelings (that I understand that he/she felt like she had no choice but to lie). And then in the "truth" part of the  dialogue, or maybe even at a different time, when there is more peace and a good opportunity to have a deep conversation, I would tell them that lying undermines trust and destroys relationships and that it will only harm them in the long run, because next time they say something, you will always have to wonder if they are telling the truth and may not believe them even if they are telling the truth... .

Here is a link to a good explanation of the SET technique on this board:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict;wap2

Just my two cents, there are probably some other board members, who have a practical experience in dealing with this particular problem, as it is fairly common... .

[Thursday]

Lying, for me, for sure, is the hardest thing to experience, of the things that she does. A lie stood between us at the very beginning of our relationship when she was 14. At 21, she continues to lie. I'm a straight shooter, a "face it" kind of woman. Ugh, I hate the lying but I have changed how I deal with it.

When I first came into her and her Dad's lives she was lying constantly to manipulate her Dad and he was largely clueless. So, at first, I was simply pointing out,  to him, that she was lying to him. And advising him that he needed to confront her about the lies. I gave him advice to do what I had done with my DD (the few times I caught her lying, she was 4 or 5 and this seemed very much to be where SD was in her maturity) and had him assure her that they could arrive at a consensus that would be satisfactory for both of them if they could just deal on a truthful level.

I felt like his avoidance of confronting her was lazy and it meant foregoing some very important parenting moments. It is a lot of work to parent... . there aren't any passes. He would avoid the confrontation and she would understand that she was getting away with her lies, she was proud of pulling the wool over his eyes, a vicious cycle.

After I was more comfortable in our relationship, more involved, more a part of the family, I started tackling the lying on my own. If I was sure she was lying, I would confront her about the lie. She would only lie more and twist herself into a knot in the process. It made me feel better, more normal and not so out of whack with my personal paradigm, to do these confrontations. But, when she continued to support her lie, it would make me mad. She could see my anger. Gave her power over me.

She still lies to avoid having her Dad and I know what she is really doing in her life. There is far less manipulating us as we have good boundaries around being manipulated and she doesn't live with us, so our contact is more limited, thus, less lies flowing on the day to day. I don't confront the lies anymore. I can raise one eyebrow though... . I'm very talented like that! This look crosses her face when I do my "John Belushi", this look a cross between anger and frustration.

She complains a lot about our lack of trust in her. So, my "lecture" to her these days is short and sweet- so long as she chooses to lie to us, we won't have trust for her.

I've accepted that she lies. I also accept that she might come to a place in her life where she will stop lying because she is doing better in her life, and thus, there will be less to lie about.

Her Dad fluctuates between asking her questions she will lie to answer and making statements that explain his expectations. Bless his heart, those expectations are going to be the death of him and his relationship with her.

Sometimes their conversation is about the weather. And she shows him stuff from YouTube on her phone.

That is 

Makes my heart ache. Is what it is.


thursday

[lbjnltx]

First I have to say that my d16 was fairly honest when confronted.

I told her several times "I usually know the truth before I ask the question."

Many times her answers start with "Ok, so this is what really happened... . "

Rather than say "I know you are lying" I would say "I have a hard time believing that"  and follow up with facts.  Facts don't lie.

If her answers were emotion based I will validate the feelings and then ask validating questions to allow her the mental and emotional space to 1. realize she is not being honest w/self or me and 2. consider doing things differently next time.

[mggt]

I wish i had the answers to this questions.  My d constanly lies about anything she will lie even when she does not have to .  This is one of her traits that is so damaging she has told me in the past some horrific storys and I chosed to believe her , when all along they were not true.  I tell her someday you will tell the truth and no one will believe you.  I believe this is very dangerous behavior (lack of a better word) it is terrible that you cannot believe one word out of her mouth.  I was told long time ago "which would you believe a thief or a liar the answer a thief because a thief would tell you he stole it" You cannot have any type of relationship with people that constantly lie it is very hard to believe a word they say because you already know the stories and answers .  I feel that anything my d says  is a out and out lie because it is constant for years and the way she tells you the story you would believe her if you did not know  any better.  So that is my opinion on lying very,honest.  I dont have any good answers on how to stop them I wish I did. 

[Kate4queen]

My son has always lied too, even when he was quite young, he just seemed to get an immense amount of pleasure out of making stuff up just because he could, not even because he needed to.

I have to admit, we got to a point when he was 19/20 when we often chose not to confront him with evidence of his lying because we were all so sick of the conflict.

When I did have to deal directly with something, (and I would when it was in my home, or affected one of his siblings), I used to wait for a quiet moment, look him directly in the eye and quietly state that I knew about 'whatever it was' and that it was not acceptable in my house or to do to someone in my house. When he tried to argue of justify himself, I'd just calmly repeat my initial statement with a, 'I understand what you are saying but if you continue to do X then this will happen." And I'd make myself follow through.

But as I said, I'm guilty of letting a lot of things go rather than confront him, but I made myself do it on the important things and he did tend to either a) not do the behavior in the house, or b) hide it better.

[JKN77]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I have not had a chance to read about the S.E.T., but do intend to. It helps to read what everyone else is doing, I don't feel quite alone in this unnatral situation...

[simenora]

Lying is the worse. It happens for no reason at all and more often not even apologized for. For my DD BPD lying is as breathing. Some horrible things have been said. She told friends at work I was dying of cancer. she made false reports to child protection. It goes on ad nauseum ad infinitum. One day, after I had had it, I said NO, I don't believe a word. Not anything you say and I just stopped asking questions. I said I know its your disorder but please don't ever ask me to believe anything. I am not able to trust you, ever. That is my boundary. I need to protect myself from the pain you cause.