Good reads, moving forward, wanted to share.

[pessim-optimist]

Some of you know that we've been n/c with our usd32 and her kids mostly in the last year, trying to figure it all out, get through the grief and anger and all the other host of feelings.

Well, we will continue on that journey.

But today, I wanted to thank you all for the support and all the discussions, and wanted to share something positive with you that has helped me lately. I think, the timing had to be right, I went through several cycles of obsessing and letting go of obsessing about BPD in general, about our daughter, and my family of origin and how that has affected me personally - reading a stack of books on that topic last year... .  

Finally, the clouds are clearing, the fog of confusion and intensity of search is lifting, finally I am experiencing a certain peace about it, and some comfortable distance. I think that for the first time in my life I am TRULY able to detach, and starting to experience TRUE FREEDOM and JOY of LIFE! (missing an emoticon for "happy"  ).

I was always trying to figure myself my family and life out, finding all kinds of helpful books, but nothing ever really helped. Having grown up in a family of multiple persons with PD and other personality problems, I ended up with some issues in spite of "winning the genetic lottery". I think THAT was the most confusing factor of all. I knew I was OK, but in spite of it, I wasn't ok, and I was so conflicted in so many areas of my life, and overall unhappy.

So, the journey started with reading "The Narcissistic Family", a book that describes symptoms, causes, and treatment for people who grew up in families that couldn't or wouldn't properly nurture them. Conclusion: I found myself in it, and found out that part of what I thought was "me" were just symptoms that other people experience. This book gave me freedom to try and learn new things, knowing that I will experience fear of the unknown, and fear of failure AND THAT IT'S NORMAL AND OK, and that other people feel that too and that we just need to work through it, be gentle with ourselves and encourage ourselves (instead of expecting perfection at first try, and berating ourselves for fear and imperfection)  ! I know, I know, I have heard it over and over, but until then I didn't know about my negative self-talk (my parents) that kept me hostage. Now I had the FREEDOM to CHANGE that!

Ok, that was the first step. It's getting long and also it's getting late, so I am going to share about "Boundaries", "I don't have to make everything all better" and "Understanding the Borderline Mother" in the next post/s.

People have talked about these books here, so many of you are intimately familiar with the material. I am going to attempt to put it into the context of personal growth as it's happening for me. Hope you will find it helpful (my internal critic says: "I, I, I... .  sounds SOO self-centered!", however I'm going to do it anyway and share in hope it may help someone.)

Feel free to share.   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Thanks for posting that pessim-optimist,

I look forward to reading about your experience with the other two books.  I particularly found myself healed from the book "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better"...

[qcarolr]

It still catches me off-guard when something I read say a year or two ago that was interesting but didn't 'click', I can read again and gain so much insight from. We do need to be "ready".

I really am looking forward to hearing more of your journey.

qcr  

[pessim-optimist]

It IS joy to find reads that lead to new liberating thought-processes and finally "untangle" us for a better, happier life!

Sorry for taking so long, I WILL get to posting about the other books, just have been a bit busy lately, but want to keep this thread going.

I am seeing some positive progress and growth and HEALING in different areas of my life that I didn't think would change. And that feels GREAT. Mainly due to the ability to change my self-talk to a more positive, gentle and less perfectionistic tone. Together with practicing, and feeling more and more comfortable in new situations.

Yes, we DO have to be READY. So many things I read in the past and "knew" but were useless, until all the pieces of the puzzle clicked together!

Today about dreams and about ever-present anxiety:

The shocking part in "Understanding the Borderline Mother" were the recurrent dreams that children of BPDs often have. I could identify with some (it was shocking - I thought my dreams were mine, not just another symptom, but it is again liberating! - as I've been changing over the last year, my DREAMS are CHANGING, and some of the bad dreams of being trapped in decrepit buildings or being hunted have disappeared altogether. I used to have dreams of still going to high school and going to college at the same time, missing important classes trying to do it all at once, or not knowing what the assignment was and failing. If I have school dreams at all, I am usually just about to graduate from college or have graduated. So, I guess I still have a road ahead, but moving forward!

I also started having different dreams. I used to have very unpleasant dreams of severe conflicts with my relatives, now if I have a dream like that, I behave differently in the dream and it usually plays out more positive. There is a solution or a resolution, not just senseless fighting... .  

Another fact I did not notice before (read about but did not notice personally - now I do) was that relatives and especially children of pwBPD often tend to live in constant state of anxiety. It is there all the time, and so we tend to ignore it unless it is extreme. Now that I'm aware of it and notice it, I can stop from time to time during the day, breathe in and out, realize what's causing it, encourage myself and calm myself and either dismiss it altogether or act toward solutions that will result in peace again. And after it's over, I remember to encourage myself again, and point out, that everything is ok. (It might seem childish, I don't know if it is a temporary stage that will go away as I heal further, but it works miracles for now!)

My point? I wanted to encourage you if you are having similar experiences that those ARE in fact symptoms, not a part of who you were born to be. It is good to find that life can be more peaceful and happy!   

[vivekananda]

getting rid of that ever present anxiety was/is, so good. But I am alert for it's return. Thing is I knew that I had ever present anxiety but would think that I was calm and ok, but I wasn't. It took a lot of calming practice (yoga esp) to get to a good level of calmness. In fact I think it was years of practice before I got rid of the ever present anxiety. Knowing and understanding is not good enough, mindful practice is essential if we want to make our 'default' position different to the one we have practised for years before. We have to change our neural pathways 

The test, I think, is how quickly can we get from zilch to anger with the right triggers operating. After an exchange with dh just yesterday   I gotta lotta work to do!

go go PessiO! (another song?)

cheers & celebrations!

Vivek    

[qcarolr]

pessiO - wow, I thought those were just MYNIGHTMARES! So hard to break out of old patterns.

Vivek  - I have done yoga - been awhile - and other kinds of meditation. THey never worked to calm me - tended to release more 'demons' in me. Now what is that about? Maybe why I hesitate to do yogoa with DD - she keeps asking me. We have a discounted membership  now, so plan to give it another try. I even 'failed' doing biofeedback back in the '80's. The therapist gave up on me reaching my goals.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

let me explain my yoga experience... . that may explain my perspective.

I first did yoga 32 years ago - but not for long, I was pregnant with dd at the time, so a couple of classes. It was there I learnt my first 'personal' mantra: "I am not my body, I am that which lives in my body; I am not my mind, I am that which uses my mind;  am not my emotions, I am that which feels my emotions." This was one of those 'paradigm shifts' in thinking, I understood it and it resonated with me... . but it didn't become a part of me till more recently.

It was when I retired about 6 yrs ago, that I was able to focus on my health (of course, I was deluded that I couldn't do this earlier... . ) So I started to attend yoga, almost daily. There was one class of Hatha Yoga, where the Yoga practice seemed more 'spiritual', more real yoga and not just exercise. Anyway I began to become more proficient and began to develop friendships amongst the 'yogis' - we would go for coffee afterwards 

It took about 3 years of regular participation in classes when the proper effects began to work. Classes often had a guided meditation because the relaxation before and after yoga is most important. Often these relaxations included an aspect of what we understand as mindfulness. Anyway, time moved on and the Hatha Yoga teacher seemed to be giving me attention to 'calm myself' - I resisted, of course   I liked being 'energised'... . but over time, as practice continued and I began to see the benefits more and more, I began to experience a wonderful sort of meditation in movement doing the practice, a wonderful sort of detachment from 'worldliness' as I became more in tune with my mind, my body and my emotions. (refer the first mantra)

Now I have been totally slack. I have had a 'hissy fit' with the gym that had the yoga because they kept on changing times etc. and it was expensive ... . etc. I was going to do it at home by myself. That hasn't happened yet    it happened about the time that my dd 's illness became unavoidable to me. I had 'motivation' issues. BUT, what I learnt has not and never will leave me and I will return to the practice, I can't afford not to.

So, qcr, I think your resistance to yoga may be based on lots of things. Maybe the teacher isn't your immediate fit (a good yogi learns to learn from every teacher, every person, regardless); maybe the possible 'spirituality' seems vague, alien and contradictory to where you are at; maybe you are just like all the rest of us and find it hard to fit another thing in; maybe you are struggling at 'letting go' and submitting to the instruction of someone who believes, thinks, so differently to you. There could be lots of reasons.

The concept of 'mindfulness' so important to us comes via the Eastern traditions. It goes back 1,000 of years and comes from the Hindu practice of Yoga (Hatha Yoga especially), from there to Buddhism and now to modern Psychology. My understanding of 'mindfulness' comes from my yoga learning and has only recently been informed by psychology.

The thing with yoga for me was I learnt to practice before I understood (I think... . ) and maybe that's where the greatest resistance for people like us sit.

I hope that makes some sense... . yoga may not be for everyone, but I wish it was    I miss it a lot and all I have to do is get off my bottom and do it... . go figure!

Cheers,

Vivek    

ps a good teacher isn't easy to find :-)

[qcarolr]

The concept of 'mindfulness' so important to us comes via the Eastern traditions. It goes back 1,000 of years and comes from the Hindu practice of Yoga (Hatha Yoga especially), from there to Buddhism and now to modern Psychology. My understanding of 'mindfulness' comes from my yoga learning and has only recently been informed by psychology.

The thing with yoga for me was I learnt to practice before I understood (I think... . ) and maybe that's where the greatest resistance for people like us sit.

I hope that makes some sense... . yoga may not be for everyone, but I wish it was    I miss it a lot and all I have to do is get off my bottom and do it... . go figure!

lots of love,

Vivek     

ps a good teacher isn't easy to find :-)

Getting into those comfy clothes, into the car, driving there, being there, going home, changing again, moving on with day. too much for me for past few years.

I did hatha yoga for about a year. started at a center then moved to yogi's home. I did get some benefit from it, until I got really emotional during ending  guided practice. The yogi informed me I was not allowed to cry! so i never went back.

The other practice that helped me back in the 90's, when i was first trying to overcome my depression, bipolar II, PTSD stuff was meditaion and painting. I met the instructor (buddist tradition) in art therapy when in day treatment program, did a few private sessions, then he set up studio in his garage. It was GREAT. I loved to paint from my emotions. Many paintings led to some good writing as well. Still have many of them. DD who was school age showed off the 3x4 foot paintings to her friends (I hung them from the rafters in the garage for a long time) - she called them my 'feeling paintings'. This touched me so deeply at the time. A connection there. Wonder how she remembers this? I also painted at home - abstract water color or mixed media that flowed. And I wrote poems about a lot of them. Prayed with many of them. Then a couple of things happened in 1999, and I have never gone back to painting. The church I was attending failed - financial and spiritual failure. I have just returned to find a faith community last year. And I had a new mental health crisis, was in psych hospital for 2 weeks (kind of a vacation from reality) and started new meds. that actually worked. I lost my 'muse' - my emotional energy changed with these meds. I so crave that passion - dh misses it too as it also effects my sexual desires. Ahhh - the cost and benefits.

If I could find some space in my house, I would like to get my paints out again. It has to be available when the inspiration or need hits - cannot be 'schedule. How do I work with gd's hoarding behaviors - all her mom's toys, horses, stuffies plus all she has acquired - she keeps every peice of paper, including trash, that she touches. She hides it as she knows I throw it away. She is allowed to fill her little boxes. When they are full it gets thrown away. She just pinned an empty Reese's peices bag to her wall in her room    And I can barely tolerate clutter. Want a simpler life -  Constantly working with gd confine her stuff that slowly takes over every flat surface in our house. I have cleared my bedroom at least.

Ah well. Hope this does not hijack this thread too much. So nice to think of my painting again.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

I did hatha yoga for about a year. started at a center then moved to yogi's home. I did get some benefit from it, until I got really emotional during ending  guided practice. The yogi informed me I was not allowed to cry! so i never went back.

silly teacher! You see I think we just have to learn to roll with other's judgemental feedback. That was her inadequacy talking. We expect a lot from our teachers but they are inadequate humans too 

... . and started new meds. that actually worked. I lost my 'muse' - my emotional energy changed with these meds. I so crave that passion - dh misses it too as it also effects my sexual desires. Ahhh - the cost and benefits.

One reason I hope never to have to return to anti depressants! Those meds so important to keep us on an even keel do take an edge off living. Perhaps we can work on those things that can improve ourselves and lessen the need for meds. In the meantime, we can still do those things that give us pleasure, eg painting. We don't have to be like Van Gogh 

How do I work with gd's hoarding behaviors - all her mom's toys, horses, stuffies plus all she has acquired - she keeps every peice of paper, including trash, that she touches. She hides it as she knows I throw it away. She is allowed to fill her little boxes. When they are full it gets thrown away. She just pinned an empty Reese's peices bag to her wall in her room    And I can barely tolerate clutter. Want a simpler life -

Maybe you could try a NVC formula... . eg " Can you please keep your things in order. When you do this, I feel happy that my house is not a mess; it is important to me that you are learning to look after yourself." ... . I don't know how this would work with a child though... . and I am working from memory but I think I have the formula right... . and you have to accept it if she doesn't because then it is a demand not a request.

cheers,

Vivek    

[pessim-optimist]

So, as I promised, I am going to share one of my recent reads:

“Understanding the Borderline Mother” by Christine Ann Lawson, PhD.

There is a book review of this book on this website if you are interested: https://bpdfamily.com/book_review/christine_lawson.htm

Part 1 of 2:

First, my personal experience: Reading this book was a big eye-opener. I am posting on this Board because of my SD32. But as is the experience of some of you here as well, the more we read about BPD, we start seeing some of it in our families of origin.

So, I identified some family members with certain traits, and even though I consider myself having “won the genetic lottery” and not developing BPD, I still found myself having some typical issues like: chronic low level of anxiety (which I wasn’t even aware of!), performance anxiety, mild depression; not being able to identify my feelings or assert my needs; being confused about who I am (since I always either lived out other people’s scripts and schedules or – more often – rebelled against them and often reacted by just escaping altogether), hence I never really developed a deep understanding and/or utility of my true talents resulting in an advanced degree in a field I am not interested in and which I never used… Talking about a waste of time! So many wasted opportunities and time spent in the fog of confusion… It made me so frustrated. At the time, I always blamed myself for not being able to make up my mind… I always thought something was fundamentally wrong with ME, but could never identify, what it was.

That was until I read the “Narcissistic Family” I posted about earlier in this thread. That cued me in onto an important path of discovery, that there are people just like me and that it is a SYMPTOM, not an expression of their true selves, AND that many times there is no need for overt abuse to be present, just a certain family pattern that focuses onto the parent, not the child and therefore prevents the child from a healthy development of individuality.

So, I was doubting myself, feeling guilty and somewhat confused about thinking my mother might have BPD and my father some narcissistic traits. That is another symptom – we tend to doubt our perceptions, don't know what we can trust, and as a result feel confused.

As I finished the book, it was both grievous and also liberating. I always thought: she wasn't inconsistent or unpredictable, so was I just imagining things? I have since realized that she was not inconsistent with her rules, but she sometimes enforced them and sometimes not. And even though she was not unpredictable as a person per se, our family atmosphere was very unpredictable. I never knew when the next fight between my parents would erupt…

Finding the symptoms and behavior described and being able to identify with the emotions that accompany such experience – even down to the typical dreams that people who grow up with persons with BPD have was sad and made me cry, but it also validated my experience and helped me even further identify what were BPD traits in my loved ones and what was normal life.

I found myself being relieved to finally find answers to my life-long questions and confusion. It gave me structure and a spring-board to leap from. I was also able to grieve my childhood and my relatives and finally detach and not feel guilty or obligated to play out the dysfunctional patterns. It was actually a relief to find out the truth. My parents were both professionally successful, and apart from the problems that I describe, they were also great parents, and I have many good memories. So that probably explains, why I initially felt so guilty for even considering their psychological conditions. But they are not the sum of their conditions. And the sooner I can separate the two, the better.

[pessim-optimist]

“Understanding the Borderline Mother” by Christine Ann Lawson, PhD.

There is a book review of this book on this website if you are interested: https://bpdfamily.com/book_review/christine_lawson.htm

Part 2 of 2:

I wanted to share this book with you for two reasons:

1. Some of us may have had a parent/mother with BPD or BPD traits and may have unresolved issues as a result.

2. Even though this is specifically a book on borderline mothers, I believe that understanding the described behavior patterns and introducing specific advice on how to deal with these can help us as parents as well, and it can help us help our grandchildren also.

Following is a summary of what the book says, plus some ideas, so if you are not particularly interested in this book, go ahead and disregard this post... .  

Excellent book overall.

Warning: It is true that for some, this may be too intense of a read (depending on how painful their childhood may have been). You definitely have to be ready for this book.

Down side: as it is an older book, it mainly points to abuse as the original cause of BPD, (but that can be easily ignored if you disagree with this point of view).

The book describes children of BPD mothers as “searching for normal”, not really knowing what exactly “normal” is. I guess, there is no universal “normal”, but BPD tends to confuse matters even more, and how much more for children who have no way of comparing it to anything else as their home life is the one and only they know?

Surprising news for me was that different children can actually have a completely different experience with the same mother! And even though all are negatively affected, there is the perceived “all-good child”- has issues, but does not develop BPD and is generally successful professionally; “no-good child” - often develops BPD; and the “lost child” – described as “floating” through life, “resigning themselves to having no control”, “confused about who they are”.

(I would add to it that I think at times the roles can switch between different children as well, and that there can be combinations of the different characteristics in an adult child)

Trying to understand the behaviors of a pwBPD can be so confusing because there are so many different combinations and variations of these behaviors, but this book sorts them into four clear categories patterned after fairytale characters (WAIF, HERMIT, QUEEN, WITCH). Of course no one person will fit nicely into any one box, some will be mostly one with a bit of another, some will be a combination. But the categories and the accompanying emotional states and inner experiences of the BP mothers help us understand what is/was going on and then the book gives specific advice on how to deal with these particular behaviors.

One of the most important pieces of advice was “don't try to control the Hermit, Queen or the Witch!” - not only is it not healthy or helpful - it can have very negative or even disastrous results. (Honestly, I cannot remember if the advice applies also to the Waif). It is good advice all around, because we really cannot control what others are going to do. A much more effective approach is having appropriate boundaries, and letting the pwBPD decide, how they are going to respond.

We have to try to remember that these characteristics are not describing the person as a whole, but only their BPD-related behavior patterns. There is so much more to our loved ones with BPD than their condition! That being said: another important insight I got from this book was that: “few borderline mothers are always Witches and some are never Witches.” p. 130 The other three types can sometimes transform into the Witch “The Witch… appears only to those who trigger her rage” p. 130

The book describes the above as “the TURN” which is a switch in behavior into a sudden attack, that seems random and scary to the children, because it is based on the mother’s emotional state, not on what is happening.

WAIF

Driving emotion: helplessness, triggering sadness. Feels victimized. Offers of help often ineffective, because the state of helplessness feels familiar and safe. Alternates between indulging and neglecting her children. Life Motto: “Life is too hard”

HERMIT

Driving emotion: fear. Feels persecuted. Over controlling (to eliminate fear). The only type who can easily handle being alone. Fears rejection more than abandonment. Life Motto: “Life is too dangerous”

QUEEN

Driving emotion: emptiness, triggering anger. Feels deprived and envious. Exploits others, seeks attention. Children are the “subjects“ used as a medium to get attention. Life Motto: “It’s all about me”

WITCH

Driving emotion: annihilating rage. Feels self-loathing and convicted of being evil. Acts with hostility and cruelty towards her children. Often sacrifices her children emotionally.  Life Motto: “Life is war”

The most important part of the book:

Chapters on “How to love the Waif without rescuing her”, “How to Love the Hermit without feeding her fear”, “How to love the Queen without becoming her subject”, “How to live with the Witch without becoming her victim”

This is accomplished by three steps that contain different specifics for each type, but are the same in their process: “1. Confirm Separateness”, “2. Create Structure”, “3. Clarify Consequences”. There is fundamental difference for the Witch: 1. Confirming Separateness is accomplished by creating distance (physical, emotional, spiritual), 2. Creating Structure is actually accomplished by “zero tolerance” for unacceptable behavior and immediately leaving, or hanging up the phone, etc. 3. Consequences are not stated or clarified by words, but direct actions.

The book talks about how different types of BP mothers tend to marry different types of fathers, who in an un-healthy way complement the BP pattern of their wife. (Again, it is just a categorization, describing what is likely to occur, reality may be more complex and I believe that different combinations of couples may exist) And, on the other hand, as is sometimes the case, presence of a stable, emotionally healthy father, in the children’s life can make all the difference.

The last chapter “Living Backwards” describes the process of the grown child coming to understand their experience, and what was abnormal about it, getting rid of false beliefs and putting together their true self (as opposed to a mosaic of reflections of their mother's behaviors and beliefs, and different symptoms). How is that accomplished? The book suggests that it happens by changing the way they think about themselves and life and as they start to behave differently, they gradually change their neural pathways. I cannot agree more!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

pessim-optimist - thank you for sharing this in so much detail. Not sure I am ready yet to read the book - I am still puzzling over whether my own biplar II is accurate, or maybe some BPD traits have been with me along the way, or maybe adopting my "little terrorist" DD at 3 weeks gave me lots of  along the way of her life. I would look at myself as a combination of a Waif/Hermit in my role as her mom in response to her behaviors. I really think it was the FOG and  complicated by the bipolar. I do respond to meds. and different therapies. I am pursuing this with my new T in some ways -- looking at ther trauma piece and PTSD symptoms.

DD is often in the Queen/Witch place and I see the impacts of this on all of us in the household, but most esp. gd right now. So I appreciate the steps in coping with these profiles. I realize I have already been doing these steps.

Thanks again --   

qcr  

[vivekananda]

Hi pessi-o,

I have read the review, but with what you have written, it seems to make better sense. Thank you for that... .  

I bet you have had some interesting reminiscing, remembering those childhood experiences. To be the d of a BPD mum is rather sad, isn't it? This is how it is for me now:

My mum is now 103, the sweetest little old lady, but she stills calls the shots. I do believe she is/was BPD, now she is so old and her memory and cognitive skills are such that she cannot engage in the old manipulative behaviour the way she used to. And her rage has been eased for many years now. Every body loves her... .   what an irony.

It was about 10 years ago, when her vulnerability and needs became so pronounced that, if you like, our roles were reversed. She looked to me to be the one who would advocate for her, anticipate her needs and smooth the waters for her. And I do. Much to the consternation of my BPD sis... .   and my other 3 sibs. When all this occurred, it was the culmination of my processing of the abuse and neglect I had suffered as a child. Like you too, I had been working on trying to come to grips with who I was within my experiences... .   and I was about 50 when I 'grew up'. At the same time the idea of a family fell apart completely - my BPD sis had a field day with the whole thing. And then last year I discovered BPD and everything fell into place.

I have not bothered to read that book, because I haven't needed to. I don't like the labels (witch, waif etc), I see them as pejorative and therefore unhelpful. I have come to that last chapter, via other pathways... .  

I was thinking that maybe my own dd would like to read the book - after all, with the undoubtedly unfortunate traits I grew up with, I was handicapped as a mum myself (a touch of the waif and hermit). Maybe she could learn the lessons about changing herself to cope with the assumed abuse she had suffered (  ), but then I though, nup, it'd only give her cause to consolidate her blame on me and dh. And I don't think that is healthy for her at all.

These days I am solidly looking to put my past in the past, the present has enough to keep me busy... .   but, we do need to know where we have been in order to understand how best to get where we want to go.

I tell ya pessi-o, looking at those traits in the wider family is a really helpful thing to do... .   I now know so much more about protecting myself from them, no more sucker me    darn it, I'm a happy chappy these days and that's how I aim to keep it! hmm mindfulness, self compassion, values, plans... .   all good stuff! And, of course, our friends here 

lots best wishes,

Vivek    

[pessim-optimist]

Hi qcr,

no need to hurry. You may or may not "need" to read this particular book. Only if and when you are ready. The important point is to understand your past, so you can move forward. BPD in anyone of our loved ones makes life so confusing at times. Confusing would be my favorite word of choice.

qcr, you've been so courageous and persistent in dealing with your situation.  Thank you for sharing!   

A side note - I was always skeptical of some 'talking therapies' that seemed to encourage re-hashing painful past and re-living it.

(I never gained much from re-remembering and re-living painful emotions). However, I was always looking into the past trying to figure it out - without much success. Until I found all about BPD (and also that book 'Narcissistic Family', that was actually the first major step - that one can grow up with some serious issues with NO alcoholicm/drugs/abuse involved).

THEN, a lot of my childhood experiences started to make sense, and as I remembered WITH NEW UNDERSTANDING, I could FEEL emotions that I PREVIOUSLY DID NOT ALLOW myself to feel, OR DID NOT KNOW ABOUT (I am talking about emotions, not memories - I always had the same memories). From time to time I find myself surprised at sudden new understanding of the past, it usually triggers major sadness. But as I allow myself to feel that sadness and cry, it is usually over very quickly, and I can move forward. It does not hold any power over me any more and I am free to change my behavior incorporating into it my new understanding. SO LIBERATING!

Vivek ,

I agree, the names for the types don't sound too friendly. They just as well might have labeled them 1.-4. It is the fairy-tale theme, that makes them so catchy.

The book's major point is that you cannot move forward in your life, if you don't understand your past. It's a good book, but if you have accomplished the same gathering your info elsewhere, then, no harm done. You can move forward just as well. 

[pessim-optimist]

So, here comes Lundberg and his: "I don't have to make everything all better" book.

Great book!

I think it is the best one on validation I have read so far - as many of you have said, you were RIGHT!

It describes in easy to understand format, what validation is, how it works, major Dos and Don'ts.

These are the major lessons that I have learned from it:

He says validation allows us to offer support to others, walk beside them emotionally, without assuming the responsibility for their problems and leaving the responsibility it where it belongs - with the other person.

Important DON'Ts:

1. After a validating statement, don't say BUT (it totally negates the validation. Strive to use AND instead).

2. Don't try to teach anything in the heat of the moment, or when the person needs validation. (Wait for a different, more appropriate time when emotions are not going to stand in the way of learning).

He states that validation answers the "universal need of every human being: to know that I am of worth, my feelings matter & someone really cares about me".

We do that through: "LISTENING (giving our full attention), LISTENING (to the feelings being expressed), LISTENING (to the needs being expressed), and UNDERSTANDING (by putting ourselves in the other person's shoes)."

Obviously emphasis on listening, before we offer our validating statement!

When we are setting a boundary, he emphasizes the need to be: "KIND, GENTLE, RESPECTFUL, and FIRM". Being firm w/out being kind, gentle and respectful harms relationships, and being kind, gentle and respectful w/out being firm does not result in a successfully set boundary.

The main message that I have taken from this book:

By validating, we can walk emotionally beside the other person, allowing them to go as low in their emotions as they need to. Then, if we continue to validate them, after they have felt the emotions they needed to feel, they will naturally bring themselves back up and start coming up with their own solutions to their problems. When they come up with their own PMA (positive mental attitude), ONLY THEN is it a good idea for us to do it (if we do it before it is invalidating and may get them temporarily stuck - not helpful). If they ask us, what they should do, DO NOT give them answers, ASK QUESTIONS instead (What have you tried so far? What do you think would work? etc.) If they persist asking us what they should do, we can give SUGGESTIONS, adding that it may or may not work for them (we will not get blamed if it doesn't work, they will not feel obligated to try our way if they don't find it helpful)

The only exception (one who cannot bring themselves up naturally) he says, would be a severely depressed individual, who may need professional help and/or medication for depression. But even the depressed benefits from the process of validation.

I am really grateful for this book! As one of the songs says it: "I can see clearly now, that the rain is gone!"

Makes sense, and gives easy to follow, great advice. Lots of good tools for my 'dealing with BPD tool-bag'!

Thank you guys here on the board for pointing this wonderful book out!

[pessim-optimist]

Thanks Vivek ,

just looked (did not know - attention).

So, as I see, I've been somewhat re-inventing the wheel, or as they say in my native language "hauling wood into the forest" or "re-discovering America" 

Missed you here for a few days - wondered if you were ok, good to hear from you again.

BTW, I remember you said that one concept you took from the book was that if the relationship is not validating, then it must be invalidating. I did not find it there... .  I thought it interesting that the same text can speak differently to each of us, depending on where we are at at the moment... .  

[jellibeans]

I really love this idea... .  I just ordered... .  the buddha and the borderline and get me out of here... .  someone else mention these books on another post... .  I am going to read them and see if my dd would benefit from them... .