Confronted uBPDm about seeing a therapist

[Depression = 72% of members]

Warning: long post.

So, I finally reached my limit and sent my parents a card telling them I probably wouldn't visit for Christmas this year unless some steps were taken towards professionally addressing personal issues. Last Christmas was not at all nice, and my uBPDm cannot interact civilly with my b/f of three years.

My uBPDm sent me an email:

"I am writing this because we both know your previous letter was primarily addressed to me.

I have given quite a bit of thought and reflected many events over the years.  The main point that I take away from these thoughts is that [bf] is important to you, and that is the only thing important to me too.  I don't want you have the perception that our estranged relation reflects my confidence in your judgement or capacity for independence.  True, we have our differences in some values we cherish and I accept that and ok with that.  But I will do my best to accept [bf] as someone who makes you happy, as it is the most important thing to me now.

You have always known that I will be here whenever you need me while you continue to live your life fully as a thoughtful, resourceful and independent young adult. I also support the notion that you need to retreat to a neutral zone if our interactions prove to be too stressful.  My home, our home will always welcome you and [bf] whenever you feel comfortable."

To which I basically replied, that's nice to hear, but I think that you have difficulty interacting with other people of significance in my life, which must also be stressful for you. I also said, in general, I think we seriously need to address our issues as a family, with professional guidance, before I'm willing to interact significantly.

She then sent this:

"I am glad that therapy sessions have helped you because I know a few relatives who have truly benefited from therapy.

I seriously doubt therapy will help me because the assumption you have about me being "emotionally difficult in interacting with someone of significance in your life" is totally, totally not true.  Yes, I am a normally hard-wired mother when it comes to my child, but I am not in any way obsessed with you to the extent that I would have emotional difficulty interacting with someone you love.  No, I never want to have you all to my self if that's what you imply; I am, in fact, amazed that you even think this way.

However, I am open to the idea of talking to a therapist even though I think that I can almost grasp the key issues intellectually, and most of what I need is the emotional execution. Good therapists will be very helpful; yet bad ones are worse than none.

In the meantime, I fully recognize that [bf] is a kind and considerate man, and am glad in many ways that he is the one whom you spend a lot of time with. People relate to each other on different levels, and affection can only be felt, not drawn on demand, but I am sure there will be a level that will suit me and [bf]... . and looking forward to exploring it in the future.

To which I replied, that's very nice, but this goes beyond boyfriend issues. It would really make me happy if you and dad sought a professional to speak with so we could improve our relationship as a family, and I wouldn't have to "retreat to a neutral zone."

The response:

"If I recall correctly, you said I need therapy because I clearly (in your mind) have emotional difficulty in interacting with someone of significance to you.  Since this is NOT the case, I don't see how therapy can help.  What you prescribed for me does not correlate to the underlying disease, so to speak, let alone not everyone responds the same to the same medicine. I have said and emphasized the things I said earlier and would appreciate if you take me seriously."

To which I replied, again, that this goes beyond boyfriend issues and that if she truly thought that she does not need to talk with someone, then it couldn't hurt just to try, right?

The response:

"In reality, are my words/promise/actions more important, or, the simple act of go seeing a therapist whose instructions I may or may not follow?"

To which I replied, no, words and promises do not carry the same weight as actions, because they do not cost anything or have consequences. I told her that therapists don't give instructions, they listen and offer their insights that she can take or leave.

The response:

"Are you giving me the ultimatum? As I said before, I understand that you need to retreat to a neutral zone if you think our interactions are too stressful.  I trust you will do whatever is best for your well being."

I replied that the ball was in her court if she really wanted to make things better, and pointed out she was refusing to do the one thing that WOULD make me happy, despite her saying she only had my happiness in mind. 

The response:

"I don't expect anything from you, or your visit.  No, you are wrong, the ball is in your court; I have done and given all I could as a mother and if you even need to threaten me with your visitation, then I have nothing left to say."


I think my mom was just saying what she thought I wanted to hear at first. Part of me wonders whether I should have just taken what I got, but part of me also knows her "promise" wouldn't last very long in reality. She even said she'd consider therapy, but as evidenced by the following emails, wasn't serious.

[Tygeress]

Warning: long post.

So, I finally reached my limit and sent my parents a card telling them I probably wouldn't visit for Christmas this year unless some steps were taken towards professionally addressing personal issues. Last Christmas was not at all nice, and my uBPDm cannot interact civilly with my b/f of three years.

My uBPDm sent me an email:

"I am writing this because we both know your previous letter was primarily addressed to me.

I have given quite a bit of thought and reflected many events over the years.  The main point that I take away from these thoughts is that [bf] is important to you, and that is the only thing important to me too.  I don't want you have the perception that our estranged relation reflects my confidence in your judgement or capacity for independence.  True, we have our differences in some values we cherish and I accept that and ok with that.  But I will do my best to accept [bf] as someone who makes you happy, as it is the most important thing to me now.

You have always known that I will be here whenever you need me while you continue to live your life fully as a thoughtful, resourceful and independent young adult. I also support the notion that you need to retreat to a neutral zone if our interactions prove to be too stressful.  My home, our home will always welcome you and [bf] whenever you feel comfortable."

To which I basically replied, that's nice to hear, but I think that you have difficulty interacting with other people of significance in my life, which must also be stressful for you. I also said, in general, I think we seriously need to address our issues as a family, with professional guidance, before I'm willing to interact significantly.

She then sent this:

"I am glad that therapy sessions have helped you because I know a few relatives who have truly benefited from therapy.

I seriously doubt therapy will help me because the assumption you have about me being "emotionally difficult in interacting with someone of significance in your life" is totally, totally not true.  Yes, I am a normally hard-wired mother when it comes to my child, but I am not in any way obsessed with you to the extent that I would have emotional difficulty interacting with someone you love.  No, I never want to have you all to my self if that's what you imply; I am, in fact, amazed that you even think this way.

However, I am open to the idea of talking to a therapist even though I think that I can almost grasp the key issues intellectually, and most of what I need is the emotional execution. Good therapists will be very helpful; yet bad ones are worse than none.

In the meantime, I fully recognize that [bf] is a kind and considerate man, and am glad in many ways that he is the one whom you spend a lot of time with. People relate to each other on different levels, and affection can only be felt, not drawn on demand, but I am sure there will be a level that will suit me and [bf]... . and looking forward to exploring it in the future.

To which I replied, that's very nice, but this goes beyond boyfriend issues. It would really make me happy if you and dad sought a professional to speak with so we could improve our relationship as a family, and I wouldn't have to "retreat to a neutral zone."

The response:

"If I recall correctly, you said I need therapy because I clearly (in your mind) have emotional difficulty in interacting with someone of significance to you.  Since this is NOT the case, I don't see how therapy can help.  What you prescribed for me does not correlate to the underlying disease, so to speak, let alone not everyone responds the same to the same medicine. I have said and emphasized the things I said earlier and would appreciate if you take me seriously."

To which I replied, again, that this goes beyond boyfriend issues and that if she truly thought that she does not need to talk with someone, then it couldn't hurt just to try, right?

The response:

"In reality, are my words/promise/actions more important, or, the simple act of go seeing a therapist whose instructions I may or may not follow?"

To which I replied, no, words and promises do not carry the same weight as actions, because they do not cost anything or have consequences. I told her that therapists don't give instructions, they listen and offer their insights that she can take or leave.

The response:

"Are you giving me the ultimatum? As I said before, I understand that you need to retreat to a neutral zone if you think our interactions are too stressful.  I trust you will do whatever is best for your well being."

I replied that the ball was in her court if she really wanted to make things better, and pointed out she was refusing to do the one thing that WOULD make me happy, despite her saying she only had my happiness in mind. 

The response:

"I don't expect anything from you, or your visit.  No, you are wrong, the ball is in your court; I have done and given all I could as a mother and if you even need to threaten me with your visitation, then I have nothing left to say."


I think my mom was just saying what she thought I wanted to hear at first. Part of me wonders whether I should have just taken what I got, but part of me also knows her "promise" wouldn't last very long in reality. She even said she'd consider therapy, but as evidenced by the following emails, wasn't serious.

[Tygeress]

I guess I feel like, was I being unreasonable in saying I really wanted my family to go to therapy, and not backing down from it even though my mother said "nice" things? Was I the one being too judgmental or expecting too much? 

[Up In the Air]

I amazes me how someone with BPD can twist and turn and manipulate us into thinking we're being unreasonable, irrational, and ridiculous. Trying to convince them to willingly accept an invitation to therapy is like pinning jello to the wall. They wriggle out of it.

Your wishes for family therapy are reasonable, rational, and show your maturity and desire for deeper more meaningful, healthy relationships with them. It's obvious that your mother is not willing or wanting to attend therapy and that's unfortunate. You are NOT expecting too much.

I learned through my experience with my uBPD mother in law that I couldn't force her to see 'the crazy' and how unhealthy and unhappy the relationship was. My husband finally made a comment to her that she was proving me right when she refused therapy. That seemed to trick her into going to one hell of an expensive session with me, in which she made fun of me, laughed at me, lied... . it was ugly. My therapist said later one on one that it was obvious that she had BPD and that it was clear that at that time, my MIL was not ready to accept responsibility for her actions, much less try to make the relationship work.

So I left it as it was, before my husband and I went NC, and I said as little as I could while remaining cordial. It worked for the most part, but there's such a nagging feeling in the back of my mind, similar to grief or a loss, when the one thing I wanted is the one thing that she can't give.

[slimmiller]

Reading your post from beginning to end, I have to honestly say that was a very good effert on your part to improve things and yet she just pushed it away. It never ceases to amaze me how deeply they will resist taking any real responsibilty for what is amiss. If there is no problem in their end, whats the harm in going to therapy?

The answer to me is obvious, it would require a level of ownership of the problem that they refuse to own.

I think you are on a great path in reflecting and trying to improve things.

[NonBPDaughter]

Hi Tygeress,

I must say i really like the way you handled the communication and replies to your mother. I will need to keep this in mind! I have said on many occasions to my own uBPD mum that she needs help. The issue is that for the majority of BPDs is that they lack any insight whatsoever into their own condition. They really do live on Planet BPD and are so utterly convinced they are correct, and that their feelings are "normal". They really actually dont see they have a problem. My mother goes into the deepest depressions, highest manias and most angry rages but even these extremes of feelings do not set any alarm bells ringing for her. We have been LC since her last rage period, where i asked her point blank "do you think its normal to be feeling this way? do you enjoy feeling this way?" You may as well be talking to a garbage bin, so different are the conversations on either side.

i agree with Up In The Air, try as we might, all we can do is work on ourselves and getting to a place where we are no longer emotional prisoners, and no longer being emotionally wrung out every day. And we do grieve. But it does get easier with time. Clearmind, a senior figure on here is great to talk to about this. When i first started posting i was deep in grief, but over the last 6-8 months of therapy once a week, and meditation and reading and posting, im getting stronger and for the most part the sting has been taken out. Good luck x

[cleotokos]

Well Tygeress, I'm sort of glad to see my uBPD mom is not the only master wordsmith, who can say the most amazing-sounding things that seem totally logical and air-tight. But after a couple of emails it was pretty clear she was trying to force her version of reality onto you, where she doesn't have a problem at all and it's really you that's being irrational and unreasonable. I've been there a thousand times. I don't think you were asking too much, however they do have to go into therapy with an open heart and a desire to change. My mom began going to therapy at my request, however I think she's just out to "prove" she's not BPD. She keeps coming back with absurd proclamations (ie. "My therapist says I can't possibly be BPD because BPD's don't have relationships lasting beyond 6 months... . " or "my therapist says BPD symptoms don't go away so I'm not BPD"... . they haven't gone away, I've just laid down boundaries on how I expect to be treated!) The denial is deep, so deep. They are slippery ones. She went to therapy to satisfy my request, but she has no real desire to admit to a problem or make things better. So, even if your mom agreed to try therapy, it may backfire if she is not going at it with a true desire to change things between you.

[Tygeress]

Update:

Thanks everyone for posting your responses, they made me feel a lot better , and sorry I haven't gotten around to replying until now.

I'm LC with my mother at the moment, still trying to maintain a "healthy" relationship with my enDad. It's been months, and although she did come out about certain things about her childhood, she has not seen a therapist.

I think she feels as though she has done enough to avoid going to therapy, including sharing something things about her past and being nice, lately. But I knew sooner or later it was going to come to an end. She sent me an e-mail with something backhanded thrown in. I brought therapy up (for the first time in months) via e-mail today, so we'll see how that goes.

[Tygeress]

OMG. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this response:


"I will also admit that my bias towards psychiatrist/psychologist in general (I generalize here) is that all my peers in medicine during medical school, residency, university medical center, or graduate school of psychology, who are in the field of psychiatry/psychology are at the, perhaps, bottom, of the whole rank. I trust I have what it takes to analyze the issues objectively and set a course of resolving them myself."

Apparently she's smarter than any therapist out there and can CLEARLY analyze her own issues. I feel like I'm in a Monty Python sketch or something.

[cleotokos]

Tygeress, did your mother attend medical school? She makes it sound so in that email.

Clearly, she's not interested in changing anything at the moment - I'm sorry to say. I've tried to give my mother a reality check that there's a serious issue, but that didn't work out. I've gone LC/NC. I think she has no interest in changing, since the whole situation WORKS for her - well it no longer works for me I decided, so I have to take some time away. As has been often repeated to me, the only thing you can change or control is yourself. It's a nice fantasy to think that they will be concerned about what you have to say and take steps to make the situation better. But it's just a fantasy. It's very hard to learn and I struggle with it, but I have to find out what I can do to make things better, with no expectations from my mother. Good luck to you!

[Bella Storm]

Hugs to you Tygeress.

Your last reply from your mom did read like a monty python sketch. You tried so hard to help your mom see the light, but she just wants to stay in crazy-town (and blame you for thinking she is in crazy-town).

At the end of the day, the only person whom you can control is yourself. Stick by the boundaries you have set for keeping your life drama and chaos free. If your mom wants to stay on the crazy train (like mine does) then you don't have to ride with her. Take a cab to peace-ville

Good luck to you.

Hugs.

~ Bella