BPD and Alcoholism / Drug Use: Are there any doifferences than normal BPD?

[confusedhubby]

I was wondering if anyone know of distinct differences with people with BPD and those who have BPD as well as serious alcoholism / drug addiction problems?

My wife of 14 years and I have recently filed for divorce. She has a serious alcoholism problem. She drinks about .5 to 1 liters of vodka a day (and only weighs 130 lbs). It's so bad that she has 2 convictions of child neglect because of her drinking in last 4 years and has lost her ability to be with our 2 children without supervision. I also think she has developed a serious drug problem. I am trying to figure out how to proceed (if at all) with her having some kind of parental input.

BPD and substance addiction issues are so similar that it's hard to tell where one begins and the other ends.  I was wondering if anyone else had similar problems in the past and how they dealt with them.

[maxsterling]

I think most mental illnesses (BPD included) leads to much self-medication because they are uncomfortable with their own thoughts and the way they view the world.  A sober world is a scary world.  If you go to an AA or NA meeting and listen - you will hear lessons about not just quitting but changing one's life and one's view of the world.  And if you listen to the people talk, you will find mental illness, depression, and loneliness are common underlying issues for addicts. 

My girlfriend was addicted to many types of drugs during her teenage years and into her late twenties.  She's been sober now almost 11 years.  I attend weekly alanon meetings, and it's scary that even though she is sober, her behaviors are very similar to the behaviors of an active addict, minus the drugs.  The friends I have confided in regarding her behavior have nearly universally asked if she was on drugs, and when I told them no, advised that I search and double-check.

[SweetCharlotte]

You should urge your ex to (or soon2BX) into treatment. She needs to break the cycle with a stint in serious inpatient rehab, or intensive outpatient at least. Does she have insurance coverage for either one?

Especially with an underlying PD, self-help groups will not do it. Sounds like she does not recognize it as a problem even or want to quit. That's a shame. Can you stage an intervention with family and friends? That could drive it home. That drug and alcohol use needs to be addressed before anything else IMHO.

[blurry]

My BPDw, her dysregulation seems to coincide with alcohol and self medicating, I don't know if its the BPD occuring to where she wants to drink/pop pills, or if she wants to self medicate and it somehow sends her into dysregulation, if you follow me. For example, we were split up the month of may, it was an ugly month, and I mean ugly, ended with me spending a night in jail followed by 11 days NC, well, june 1st she comes back as usual almost like nothing had happened and wanted to be " friends". Fyi, her idea of friends was telling me " she's gonna spend the rest of her life proving to me how much she loves me", " can't live without me" blah blah blah, and nonstop sex... . for the first week, while she was sober, Friday night, the drinking starts and suddenly for 3 days straight I get nothing, no text saying good morning or hello ect. Ofc I call her out on that and boom, get told " this was a mistake, I knew we couldn't be friends"... . we've since gotten back together, married, and she left after three weeks, I must be a psychopath myself for doing this. Definitely something connected between substance abuse and the BPD though, imo. I'm just a good old fashioned alcoholic but she takes the dysfunction to epic proportions.

[hellokitty4]

Things could be going fine until she drinks... . for two days we spent time together, talked on the phone, texted... . things were very smooth... So smooth I was actually waiting for the other shoe to drop. Last night she had some cognac to settle her stomach.  At 9:00 we were on the phone laughing, talking and by 10:45 the dysregulation started after she had a couple of glasses of wine at a friend's house.  When the alcohol kicked in, she picked on a comment made by a mutual friend the day before to infer that the friend and I went to the same nail place.  We did but separately.  Without the alcohol BPD friend was okay with that.  After alcohol she blew my head off. Complete change from all the joking and pleasantries. 

Within an hour, her mood shifted. All I have to do is read the texts and the shift is so obvious. I wonder if she is aware... .

[dagwood]

You should urge your ex to (or soon2BX) into treatment. She needs to break the cycle with a stint in serious inpatient rehab, or intensive outpatient at least. Does she have insurance coverage for either one?

Especially with an underlying PD, self-help groups will not do it. Sounds like she does not recognize it as a problem even or want to quit. That's a shame. Can you stage an intervention with family and friends? That could drive it home. That drug and alcohol use needs to be addressed before anything else IMHO.

I absolutely agree... . the person needs to be sober to really benefit from any kind of therapy for the BPD.  IMO, programs like AA are designed for people without other accompanying  conditions.

[confusedhubby]

Thanks for sharing dagwood.

The problem is that she is in complete denial about her BPD diagnoses -- even though the psyche evaluation was pretty clear. As far as the drinking goes she claims that she was once an alcoholic but that she can now control it because she found this new BF and he has motivated her to. Truth is that she has become a junkie and does not want the good times to end because like all BPD's they don't wish to face the guilt or shame associated with the horrors of what she has done.

Very sad. Sometimes when I think about it I get really bummed out. I have two daughters  (D7 & D8) with her. She has harmed all of us for the rest of our lives. Very sad indeed.

[PhoenixRising15]

ex gf w undiagnosed BPD/traits and major major substance abuse.  It's hard for me to tell given her family history and relationship history if the substances cause the dysregulation or alleviate it or potentially both.

What i do know is, she was definitely self medicating and in denial.  Denial seems to be common in both of these, as there is certainly something stirring her up, she self medicates, has huge mood swings, which stirs her up more, more self medication.  It's a vicious cycle.

After some al-anon, I finally realized my role in this, harping on her for the drug use, begging her to get herself some help.  Instead, I just started saying, "Ok do whatever drugs you want, I hope you don't die from them" and she couldn't really say anything anymore about me being a source of stress which caused her to use drugs.

[confusedhubby]

Hi QuestionFaith.

Thanks for sharing

Boy your pwBPD sounds identical to mine! She too blamed me for being the "trigger" for her drinking. I tried everything I could to get her to stop but to no avail. After rehab, IOP, AA and countless therapists, psychiatrists etc she finally just told me one day that she had met someone last week and was in love. Said she was leaving. In another 2 weeks he moved in and she claimed that she no longer was drinking because I (the trigger for her drinking) was no longer in her life and thus she had no reason to drink. Funny thing was however that she never stopped drinking. No for a second. See when they find the new person to idealize they create a new persona that is all good. They don't reflect on the past for a second. As far as they are concerned its the ex partner who is all black and responsible for all of the harm. Very selfish and immature but that's how it is.

[PhoenixRising15]

Yes, she wrote a letter proclaiming her undying love for me just before we split. 

Two weeks later she was posting pictures with a new person saying "I can't imagine anyone in the world I'd rather be with right now"

As I learn more, I realize this is true.  In her mind, and in her heart, she couldn't.  The sad thing was her face.  As usual, it told the whole story, and I could see her sadness.

I feel bad.  I want to reach out.  We've gone voluntary NC with a plan to reconcile in the future, and I can't bear to look at pictures of her with others in her new, perfect life.

I'm sure she will come back to me and claim she was thinking about me the whole time.

I hope I have the strength to realize they are just words to suck me back in.

[confusedhubby]

Hi QuestionFaith.

Mine was the same way. We split up and in 3 weeks she was madly in love. Told me she had not felt this way in 20 years. Said it was the greatest she had ever felt and they were soul mates. Even claimed to have stopped drinking cold turkey (yeah right).

This is al just an outward show. Kinds of like schizophrenic has dual personalities, a pwBPD has two personas. During the idealization stage she is in euphoria. But the underlying causes of her problems have not ceased whatsoever.  It's just a slow destructive path that eats away at them. In the case of my spouse she went from being a sucessful Harvard MBA grad managing 150+ people to working as a cashier at Home Depot (and even that job she lost cause of drinking). She went to having a loving family and house in suburbia (two daughters age 7 and 8). To living in a dive of a house with her new BF. None of it mattered to her so long as she could escape from the reality that is her true persona. So she continues to change like a chameleon and reinvent her life script. I was the reason for all of her problems. The new guy is her salvation. Soon however the new guy will replace me and he will be the brunt of the abuse (or he will smarten up and depart once he is finished using her). And the cycle will continue with someone else until one day she hits rock bottom.

[PhoenixRising15]

I hate to say it, but I hope that happens soon to my ex. 

Instead she seems to have it all.  She's young (19) but shes fooled her wealthy family into thinking shes an angel, meanwhile, she is off doing coke, acid, amphetamines and having excessive one night stands.

The worst of it is that she's off in Ibiza on a 2 week vacation right now, but claims to have "found the light" and wants to "right all her wrongs" and be back with me in 4 months when she gets back from europe.

I'm sickened by the amount of lies she told to me.  Absolutely destroyed that she could stare directly into my face and lie over and over and over, and then have the audacity to say she needs "time to forgive me"

BULL HONKEY! She wants to party and not talk to me, but wants me to be her solid ground when she gets back.

WHY CAN I NOT STOP OBSESSING ABOUT HER AND JUST BLOCK HER FROM MY LIFE?

ARGH

[confusedhubby]

Hi QuestionFaith.

Sorry to hear what your going through. I am not a psychiatrist but I thing what your going through is called an "adjustment disorder". It is situational and not uncommon among Non's

As for your GF, what you see as her lying is really her self defense mechanism that is so self centered that it would rather see you hurt than deal with the destruction she is causing. This has nothing to do with you. Whether she hits rock bottom depends on a host of factors that you have no say over. If I were you I would take a step back and wait for her to recycle you -- they always do. When she does you can discuss your issues with her and maybe then  she will be ready for therapy.

Finally, if she is doing drugs then her BPD is in hyper drive. Whatever inhibitions she has will be gone and her impulsiveness will be super-sized.

[PhoenixRising15]

I am not looking forward to that conversation whatsoever.  I hope by then I will have recovered enough to make a radically accepting yet objective and boundaried decision as to whether to have any further contact with her.

A large part of me is just hoping she forgets and becomes someone else's problem.  Then I can properly grieve and just move the heck on with my life.

[waverider]

Denial is the major coping tool for pwBPD

Alcohol and drugs/meds are simply an excellent means to aid to this denial.

Until these tools are removed there is little chance of addressing the underlying cause.

I have been on this chicken and egg roundabout many times, and it is soul destroying.

One positive is that the black/white, on/off nature of BPD means that there comes a time when they can more readily put these addictions behind them like it never happened than say a straight alcoholic or drug addict. It's part of their ability to compartmentalize sections of their life. Lack of consistency working for them for a change if you like

[SweetCharlotte]

One positive is that the black/white, on/off nature of BPD means that there comes a time when they can more readily put these addictions behind them like it never happened than say a straight alcoholic or drug addict. It's part of their ability to compartmentalize sections of their life. Lack of consistency working for them for a change if you like

Yes; my uBPDh abused alcohol for about a year, drinking high-proof spirits right out of the bottle. It was enough to slightly damage his liver, but he did it for one year and that was that. Unlike most "alcoholics," he can now drink normally. He abuses food instead with a binge-eating disorder that has been medically disastrous for him.

[opheliasmom]

Sorry for your difficulties confused Hubby.  My dwBPD has been told by three therapists that they will not treat her for BPD until she gets clean and sober.  They have all said similar things.  BPD and many adddictive behaviors closely resemble each other, naturally drugs makes BPD behaviors worse and there is no way to address the psychological issues while someone is under the influence.  Now that she is 20 it is up to her to get clean, and find a therapist.  I will help her when she is ready.  If you are not already going you may want to consider AlAnon.  It has been a life saver for me.  Even when you are divorced your x's drinking will probably continue to affect you and your children.  Stay strong.

[confusedhubby]

Hi Opheliasmom.

Thank you for sharing.

You are very correct until they can correct there substance abuse problems pwBPD cannot hope to begin to treat personality disorder of what ails them. The sad part is that BPD is a very serious disease but when dealing with an alcoholic / druggie, it is completely overlooked. Eveything is so focused on the substance abuse problems that it just overshadows the other problems. My wife went to rehab and everything looked good for a while but then she went back to drinkig. I think because we haad failed to address her BPD in addition to her drinking.

[confusedhubby]

Hi waverider.

Thank you for sgaring your knowledge. It is greatly appreciated.

Could you expand on how a BPD alcoholic can quit drinking easier than a Non? I would think that it would be the reverse as they have two serious underlying issues (alcoholism and BPD0. My wife went to rehab and it worked well for a while but afterwards she began drinking again. I think part of the problem was that she was still not being treated for her BPD.

[waverider]

Hi waverider.

Thank you for sgaring your knowledge. It is greatly appreciated.

Could you expand on how a BPD alcoholic can quit drinking easier than a Non? I would think that it would be the reverse as they have two serious underlying issues (alcoholism and BPD0. My wife went to rehab and it worked well for a while but afterwards she began drinking again. I think part of the problem was that she was still not being treated for her BPD.

I wouldn't say it was easier, my partner has done something like 20-30 residential detox programs over her life. The underlying PD which drove them to it is still there and so alcoholism is more like a symptom with the PD being the cause. The difference is that alcoholism or drug abuse alone is often not always the original cause.  During the times she was off it then being around it was not an issue. She either was in the problem or it was not there, something may trigger a reoccurance (blocking prevents lessons being learned) but otherwise there was no yearning.

IF, and when, they can get free of it then staying free of it doesn't always dominate them as much as a straight alcoholic or drug abuser, they have more stuff to worry about, unfortunately that may mean other unhealthy coping methods, but they can lock the old method in the past and throw it away, just like an old lover, they dont miss it.