Can we manage home detention instead of jail for DD27?

[qcarolr]

DD27 met with her public defender lawyer yesterday. I came in at the end to talk about procedure and options - had to stay out of facts to preserve lawyer-client privilege. This is OK with me as I want to stay out of that part of DD's life as much as possible. I wasn't there for any of her arrests anyway. She now has 3 cases before the same judge on 9/5 with this lawyer. DWAI probation revokation (most likely reinstate with some kind of 'sanction' harrassment/DV with exbf; violation of no-contact plus another harrassment with exbf.

Seems exbf was high for days and days when all this melted down. He was punishing her for the exbf from last year that assaulted her with choking and is now on his way to prison for 2 years (violated his probation too many times plus hostile attitude in treatment).

There will be jail time - at least 60 days - plus some probation. DD gets so sick in jail - serious skin infections is the worst that will put her in isolation instead of the recovery programs she seems willing to participate. So dh (very reluctantly) and I have offered to support a request for home detention along with the dual recovery program called PACE. It is a partnership between probation and mental health. The probation will have a substance abuse/domestice violence focus while the mental health will give access to CBT, meds. and whateve else they decide. There is also job couseling and living skills support. A very structured program with daily checkin. DD told lawyer she needs this structure to be able to get through the probation period.

So ---- in some ways I feel I have let myself down from my more 'tough love' stance. In other ways this feels very validating for both of us ---- as long as I can keep up with my self care routines and not get overwhelmed by allowing myself to get too involved. Hardest part is loss of my time. DD did house arrest  for 45 days last fall. She did well in our home, though was very lonely and bored. So hoping she gets accepted in PACE and this will get her out of the house everyday among peers and treatment staff. Key to my survival is to get her on the bus to get there and back. This is hard with time limits away from monitoring equipment at the house.

And the judge has to allow the home detention. Hard to put the MRSA stuff in the public record for DD. There is a lot of stigma about this staph infection. She knows how to treat it effectively, but the delays in treatment in jail  are detrimental for her.

And then there is that other shoe hanging outside my vision waiting to drop. Acceptance - mindful of my responsiblity vs. her's - that shoe belongs to DD not to me. I have to be willing to step aside and let it hit her on the head without rushing in to take the fall for her.

So I think this is a supportive position to take. I know some will disagree - that is OK. And dh is so hesitant because he anticipates that shoe whacking him too. And always - gd8 must be protected. Good thing she will be in school - and has the same teacher, same classroom as last year. And has her IEP in place for any individual attention needed.

Enough for tonight. Thanks for listening. So much more peaceful having this place to share ---- get it out of my head.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[twojaybirds]

oh qcr,  what a stirring of ingredients. That fine line can sometimes blur and the only answer is self-reflection, gut responses and hope.  It sounds like you have all of these. 

Perhaps you can purchase two different shoes (a sneaker for her and a work boot for you) and every time an issue/concern/topic comes up you can write it on a piece of paper and place it in the shoe whom it belongs to.

Best of luck and keep us informed  

[peaceplease]

qcr,

What does the lawyer think about your request for home detention?  :)oes he think that judge may allow it?

I know there were pros and cons to my dd being on house arrest.  The biggest con was the cost of it.  But, other than that, I loved my dd being on house arrest.  I actually liked her.  She was pleasant.  I loved that she had time frames on her, as she could monopolize my time.  Want to run here, or one real quick stop here, and it goes on and on .  So, I loved that aspect of the time limit.  Also, loved that there was a limit to grocery stores.  Only once a week.  Also, a big pro was that she was subject to monitoring, so no drug use.  

As soon as she was off house arrest, things went downhill, fast.  She was exhausted all the time from the Seroquel prescribed, and became dependent on it.  She was okay being tired while she was on house arrest, but then needed a job, and could not tolerate bing tired.  So, she got on Adderall, with my support, as I did not want her to return to methadone.  Also, started using opiates.  I thought the Adderall would take away the urge, but now she is on the methadone as well. (against my wishes)  And, now she is so angry all the time.  I seriously get sick  feeling in my stomach, before I pick her up to take her somewhere.  My dh thinks it is the methadone and adderall combo.   I am not sure what it is, but she is wicked!  She will not forgive my dh, from words exhanged.  I was not there, so I don't know.  I just know, that she was in full blown rage, and it was ugly.  She says that she will never talk to my dh again, and that we are all crazy in my family.  

I would love, if she was on house arrest, again!  But... . She was not living in my house, which is the big difference. But, OTOH, she was a different person, so I think that it would have been doable.

Keeping you in thoughts and prayers.  

 

peaceplease

[qcarolr]

Perhaps you can purchase two different shoes (a sneaker for her and a work boot for you) and every time an issue/concern/topic comes up you can write it on a piece of paper and place it in the shoe whom it belongs to.

What a great idea    Think I will actually find some old shoes to put near my desk to put the slips of paper in. Maybe one for each person in the family, not just DD, and one for work.

I was in a women's depression group back in the late 90's. The T gave us a tool she called 'units of concern'. Scale of 0-10. Zero was not my concern at all, and need to find willingness to totally let go, hopefully guilt free (I have never succeeded with this zero level). 10 means it is totally my concern. It also had to do with my choices. I could choose to increase the concern level on any situation, and had to be willing to accept the sacrifice it might create.

With what I have learned in past few years, maybe I can apply this tool more effectively now. And I can have to shoes to show for it.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

Peaceplease -- I too enjoyed DD's house arrest last fall. She really did so much better with this structure. Dh and I were also better at sticking to our boundaries, esp. about friends at the house in the evening, ie. none allowed. She only had a couple of friends come during the day maybe 3 times during whole 45 days. Not many 'real' friends, huh? She also took her meds on schedule, walked the dogs during her 2 hours of free time at noon. This is when she would go get her UA's, run errands... . Of course I was doing the driving. Not enough time to go by bus. And she could stand in the front yard to meet gd's bus in afternoon - the stop is at the neighbors house luckily.

HUH - I think this must have been 2 years ago, 2011, since we had all the bf troubles last year. YIKES.

Key to her success is to get accepted intot he PACE program. She really needs daily stucture. I cannot give this to her even though she desires this from me. Have never been able to give this to her. And if she commits to doing the recovery treatments, alcohol/drug-domestic violence-mental health - maybe she will be able to maintain it for the 2 years of probation that continues.

Hardest part for me is the time commitment to get her there. She was able to say to me when I asked her to get the bus for a UA - she can ride the bus there but struggles to walk across the street to the counseling center. This is why she asks me to drive her - then she knows she will walk through the door. Once she is inside things are OK. I think there is a lot of panic and terror in her mind. Always has been.

Meds. for my DD have always been mostly ineffective. The AHDH stimulants - Adderall, ritalin etc. ALWAYS created increasing aggressiveness in her. Same with her use of cocaine and meth. Saw this when she convinced pdoc to give her Vynase? in Feb.  She wanted it to 'think better and be more alert' and she beleives it helps her lose weight (real side effect of supressing appetite, but also increases her insomnia). I think she has addiction to stimulants. She smokes and drinks lots of caffiene when can't get the drugs - though they are not 'working' for her much anymore. She and gd's daddy have begged us not allow gd to be on stimulants for her ADHD. They fear them leading her to addiction as adolescent.

Seroquel is very very sedating. I was on for years, until developed bad allergice reaction. It did work for my bipolarII. DD could never take any of the antipsychotics - agitation and depression - push her toward stimulants to offset sedation.

If BPD is the main issue - these drugs are not going to make it better and can make things worse. You saw the improvement when she was on house arrest and off all this. House arrest creates a structured, safer, calmer environment. Takes away need to make so many daily decisions and interpersonal r/s issues. Life must be so stressful for our big kids - and searching for a quick fix with drugs is a false 'easy' path. It takes a lot of hard work and preseverance to go though the recovery process of BPD treatments that seem to work. DBT and something like Schema, Mentalization, even neurofeedback. And they all cost money. Though maybe not that much more that the meds. and drugs?

No easy solutions. Just lots of hard work for both of us. Her to persevere. Me to be sincere in validation and keeping my personal boundaries -- taking care of my own needs. Need all your support and prayers to make this happen. Too much to accomplish alone.

qcr  

[qcarolr]

update:  DD finally contacted me today. Gone since last Tuesday. Dh, gd and I had gone hiking in the mountains - drove new direction to avoid big thunderstorm and came across a trail we had been trying to remember! It was really a nice time. Coming out of the mountains got text from DD asking if we were OK as she had not heard from us.

Truth is, she sent text mid-day wanting $40 and then she would come home. YIKES. I just put my phone away without answering. As there was no answer to that.

So we picked her up on our way home. Before we got her I agreed with dh to not ask any questions or bring up any of her probation stuff. She asked if anyone had called, like the PO?  I said it had been a very quiet week, no one had called for her. (she has given my # for messages in addition to her own).

Assuming she did none of her UA's or classes, etc. this week. WHo knows what will come of this at her PO checkin this coming week. And then her hearing is a week from Tuesday. I have to step back from trying to guess what drives her to NOT DO WHAT SHE KNOWS NEEDS DONE.

She also got letter from state DOC (dpt of corrections - prisons) about exbf sentenced to 2 years a couple weeks ago. Because he has been in county jail 7 months total on this charge, he will be up for parole in only 3 months. His release date is 15 months. Hope this eases DD's pain about him a little. Then he will have to succeed for 2 years on parole.

What a messy life she has. Breathe, breathe. Let it go -- it belongs to her. I am willing to trust that this is her path, and she will get the care she needs along the way. It does not have to be only from me. This is not about me.

I can trust that I am on  my  path and will be able to get my needs met along the way. This is what is about me. I cannot give this away to anyone else -- except God. I can believe his promises - things go so much better when I do.

On another note: we were cleaning out some book shelves for donations today and I came across the little book ":)on't Sweat the Small Stuff with your family", Carlson.  Every page I opened randomly connected with all of the above for me. Acceptance, letting go, living from my heart, let go of expectations... .   Reading the table of contents, all 100 topics, is like reading so many of the resources and posts here at bpdfamily.com. And I can see so many areas that I have been in a state of avoidance about during the slump of depression I endured this winter/spring.

So as I am taking care of my own needs - excercise, sleep, diet, plus all the phsycological and spiritual needs - I am better able to manage and cope with the day to day traumas that are a part of my life. That's it -- this is my life. I can find some joy in it every day if I look for it. And let others find their own joy (or sorrow). I can be in a sincere place to offer the validating version of myself then.

We will see how well this lasts as we move into this last week before court - again.

qcr  

[Thursday]

Dear qcarolr-

Don't Sweat the Small Stuff has been my saving grace soo many times. I've kept this book in the bathroom... . for my DH... . (do ALL men read while on the potty?)

He has gained so much from it too. I think he is the one who brought the book home... . go figure.

I see/hear/read so much profound growth in your posts.

I can also see how you and your DD dance together. You try to hold her, to move slowly with grace and in time to the music when she wants to slam dance, no touching except to crash into you (or the wall) but you for sure are the partner she keeps asking to the floor. To her, you are still dancing no matter what it looks like.

To me, it seems your daughter is asking to be stopped. Now that you are leaving this "up to her", she is asking still to be stopped (while at the same time pushing and straining to maintain her more comfortable for her status quo) but bless her heart, she does seem to have some mechanism to find a way. It is a maze through BPD for sure.

Concerning the BPD Status Quo- I understand that I will never truly understand why she clings so hard to such a hard path sometimes... . she really has such a hard time changing anything once she is vegetating in that comfortable soup of her own making. Makes no sense to me, not what I would want but it's not up to me to create a path for her to walk upon. All I can do is suggest that there are other paths, easier paths. My BPDDSD22 doesn't actively listen, struggles against our advice, but later, sometimes she actually does what we have suggested. Without any understanding that she heard it from our mouths. But who cares? I don't need to be right all that much!

What happens to your DD's ability to be put on house arrest if she tests dirty in her UA? Does that change at all?

Curious... .

Thursday

[qcarolr]

Violations on house arrest would terminate that option and put her in jail. Just as her violations of bond requirements past couple weeks (not doing UA's) may lead to termination of bond that puts her in jail before the hearing. Hearing is 9/5 which is  week from thursday.

She has most likely not slept for several days, so expect her to sleep a couple days now. Actually hope she ends up without home detention and  60-90 days in jail. Rehab and recovery options are available in there. I have to step back then with no way to bond her out, no matter how she asks.

I too ask for things to STOP in indirect ways that do not shift her blame onto me.

qcr  

[pessim-optimist]

I also love the idea of the shoes: you can look in and say 'nope, not in my shoe - not my responsibility' helps with the boundaries... .

The idea of the house-arrest seems very nice and probably productive for your dd (with the threat of jail if she flakes out). Something to give her structure, and leave her in her environment. It would help if the transition from that was gradual - to still keep the structure after the house-arrest would be done, to keep her on a positive track. Could that be worked out in the probation conditions?

It may be really hard on you, though. Have you weighed all the responsibilities and if it would be realistic for you to be able to do it AND still take care of yourself properly, your gd, dh, job, dogs etc.? If the answer is yes, then, I'd say, go for it... .

If the judge is not favorably disposed to the idea of house-arrest: could the attorney address her MRSA issues and provide for DD to have prompt treatment plan in place, so it does not become a problem later? (I am not sure, what is possible, but I'd think of it similarly as if she was diabetic, they would have to be ready for her from day 1; could this be treated the same way?)

[qcarolr]

Dh worries out loud with me about the demads of DD being here. And what if she dysregulates? Well if it was bad enough, police would be called and she would go to jail. The only way either option will work, IMHO, is if she is accepted in the PACE program. A dual program partnership with probation dept and mental health center. She would get everything in one place, and they required daily checkin. She has to buy into working the program -- or back to jail most likely. At least for a bit.

The womens section of county jail is extremely overcrowded. 3 to a cell designed for 1 (one sleeps on the floor on a pad like a futon). They are actually sending some to other counties. That would a very very bad situation for DD. So this may tip the judge toward jail.

The lawyer knows of all the medical issues. Her goal is to work it all out with the DA for an offer before DD's turn with the judge. So depends on how tough the DA wants to be.

This all goes into L's big shoe.

Thanks for asking.

qcr  

[pessim-optimist]

Ok, so it looks like wait and see... .       

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Wait and See Update:

As expected DD mostly slept til Tuesdy. I watched TV with her for an hour or so, then spent some time here until gd came home. Wednesday she seemed really connected to family, even called that she would meet gd's bus and I could work a couple extra hours. Dh was home when I got there and was a good day for all. DD had actually cleaned her bathroom and taken a shower.

Thursday morning drove DD to see PO early. He said nothing would be done about her violations the week before since her court was only a week away. Drove back home, drop DD off, went to my annual physical. Had to get gd early at school for her be-weekly T appt. DD was bored. Had asked on way home for PO if friend could come over for a while to hang out. I said OK. Also the solar guys were there installing our new breaker box for solar system lease. A little unsure about this friend and all the extra stuff - knew I wanted him gone before dh got home from work. And then DD had trouble communicating as our power was out - he never came. She asked to go with gd and I to T appt. I also was unsure about this, but said OK. During the drive she was texting and asked me to drop her in park and she would meet up with friend and take bus to house. I reminded her about how late it was already and wanted to know her plan for him leaving the house.

WHEW - old reaction of anger, yelling, name calling. Gd in back was just silent, but in mirror saw her mouth for me to be quiet. I tried, DD just kept it up til I dropped her off. Then on way home DD texted to get the rest of her county money. I chose not to reply and figured she would not return home last night. She came to day briefly, got her backpack-money-bus passes, with a different friend than the one from yesterday. Seemed to be in a powerful state of mind.

Actaully, I said to her before she got out of car something like 'you could have just asked to be dropped at park. you did not need to say you wanted to go to T with gd and I. I would have said yes.' she was actually quiet after this comment.

Gd had really good appt with her T - I stayed in waiting room. She shared about her fears of thunderstorms and tornados and how we pull up the weather service radar online to check for warning boxes. On the drive home gd shared with me that she is afraid the police will come and I will be in jail. I was startled by this. So did some 4-7-8 breathes (inhale count 4, hold count 7, exhale count 8) and asked what she how she thought this would happen. I was not going to jail.

Her fear was her mom and friend would be at house, there would be argument, I would yell back at her mom, friend would call police and I would go to jail. I reassured her I would not yell at her mom. Reminded her that I had not yelled back at her mom today or any time in past weeks. She agreed.  This really really cemented for me how attached gd is to me as her caregiver - parent. And maybe her concerns when her mom has briefly been in jail recently are more about losing me than about missing her mom. Gd is being such a normal 8 year old. Doing her homework every night - struggle but getting it done and I am staying with her calmly and letting her do the work. (homework has always been an emotional struggle for me with DD and last year with gd). She is laughing and playing after school with neighbors. She likes school - even getting to office at noon for her meds. is not an issue. New this year.

So wait and see. I am doing OK.  Have to say reading a new book has really been a help in the 'doing it' part of all the staying calm, validating, boudnaries tools. ':)aring to Love' by Heather Forbes. I have a thread on this topic on parenting board since mostly relates to gd.

Thanks again for listening. Helps so much to have understanding ears. Dh does not want to listen - he is in his own fear/stress mode. I disrupt is denial network. Well, maybe not. I have been doing a lot of listening for him instead of talking. Amazing

qcr  

Making some assumptions here.  THis has really boosted my confidence in holding boundaries with DD. And it created some concerns about managing the home detention option. So I called the lawyer and gave her a 'heads up' about the lack of any participation in probation or bond requirements past 2 weeks. The home detention option will not be available - esp. if PO sends report to court.

[Thursday]

Q- glad to hear you are feeling a boost in confidence. Confidence is a really important thing, isn't it?  I like myself the most when I am self-confident.

Reading about your gd's fears isn't easy. I wish it wasn't so. Must be difficult for you when she tells her feelings. I'm so sorry this is the way it is for now.

I try to remind (R E M I N D) myself the value of  "wait and see". Life evolves around us with its lessons and learning. Why is it so hard to accept the difficult things we struggle with? Why is it so hard to be patient until the meanings are revealed?

I think it's great you are teaching gd to pattern her breathing. What a great tool for her life. Does she acknowledge that it helps her?

Keep us updated. Do you think your DD is formulating a new boyfriend relationship? How would you feel about that? It seems a real part of her cycling behavior.

Have a safe holiday weekend.

Thursday

[qcarolr]

DD almost joyful comment to me - one group has split because of exbf talk of her harassing him. She stated she is the center of this new group because can keep them calm or something like that. I did not pursue it with her. My fear and amazement took over. She is kind in a high energy state. Total flip from the distress and vulnerability. Maybe she knows jail is waiting and this distraction calms her terror. This is an assumption.

Wait and see. Keep on breathing and praying for my strength to keep letting go and accepting whatever comes. Being there for gd and dh.

qcr