Some thoughts about the article "10 Beliefs That Can Get you Stuck"

[Turkish]

Being in a relationship with someone with BPD or suspected BPD can make us think in a toxic way ourselves, due to all the projection and rejection, so this may be an interesting read for you : Ten Beliefs That Can Get You Stuck - Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder

That is great... .but reading it, it was depressing. Now I don't know what to do... .I want to kick her out of the house, but am not sure, especially with the kids (here I have no problem, they can have "camp-outs" over at mommy's). I hate living a fake relationship as her parents do to this day. I don't want my kids thinking it is normal. Patience, patience, but I am not sure where she is at now. And I'm not supposed to ask her how she feels? Then we just pass in the house, try to act normal in front of the kids, while we sleep in separate rooms, and she is still engaged in something with someone else on the side. For now, she is not retaliatory  towards me, but I know she can work the law, as she did with her previous boyfriend (who actually was a criminal, a relationship she jumped into at her low of being dumped by The One she idealized, but broke her heart by leaving). *sigh* Sorry to hijack the thread, not sure how much we are supposed to talk about our own stories in other peoples'... .

[Reg]

Hi Turkish,

Now for my answer, something from my own situation.  You will see some similarities... .

I do have to remark here that the husband from my former partner has some very serious narcistic traits or he is narcistic or he is just a really terrible lying, manipulative and selfish person.  She is going to divorce from him since five years... .  Still hasn't.  And not doing anything to complete the divorce which was started and halted several times.

Here it is... .

My former partner claimed after she was living alone, and could not really deal with that, although I was often at her place, that she still thought she had feelings for het husband, and there were some recycles.  He accused her of everything that went wrong in the marriage etc, and I was thinking she was just very easily influenced, not knowing about BPD at the time.

At the end of our relationship she moved back in with her husband.  The reason ?  She needs a roof over her head (although she could go life with her parents again with her daughter).

But also, she needs financial support for all of her needs, buying clothes in shops in the city and the net, complaining she doesn't have a lot of them, while she has a wardrobe beyond belief... .

Meanwhile she was still involved with me.  She slept and probably still does, together with her (12 year old) daughter and her husband is sleeping seperately in another room.  I know for certain it was that way, but don't know if it is still the case.

She had cheated on me with another woman, a known BPD BTW whom I saved twice from suicide and who was living in my own street at the time.

After we broke up, she has been in a relationship with at least one other woman (also a known BPD with alcohol problems), possibly more, which she has recycled as well.  She even goes out with both her husband and recycled lesbian lover... .

Her daughter has whitnessed this all happening (she denies that in saying that she is too young to understand) and is having issues of abandonement herself, not knowing how to cope with death of family members, and is being bullied at school (something she denied as well the last time for over 2 months till I was proven right after the breakup).

Her daughter even knows that her parents have been in a physical fight and has been crying about this, probably also at school... .

To the outside world, the happy couple, even on family meetings, in reality I don't even know what to call it... .

He stays with her because it makes things easy for him.  To the outside world they are the happy married couple again, his food is ready at evening, the house is cleanded, his washes are done, and for the rest he doesn't care, it looks good to the outside world and he can do what he wants as well.


What am I saying now ?  The children you both have are still little.  They do not understand really what is happening.  That is a good thing.

However if they grow older they will understand what is happening.  So I do would advice to prevent ths from happening. 

Not saying you have to step out of this relationship, but that it is best to find a solution before the kids are to old to understand.  They have the right to grow up in a stable environment with love and support.

This can be by using the tools to soften things, take away the sharp edges.  Your partner getting therapy, etc.

May I ask you if she has been diagnosed with BPD ?  Seen a councelor ?

Hang in there !

Reg

[Turkish]

Wow, Reg, Reading your story, I realize that it could be much, much worse for me. She went to see our counselor yesterday, for the last time. She said he was too expensive. He offered that I probably had no problem paying for it, and she replied that she didn't want to "owe" me anything more. So she has made her decision. She said it was emotionally draining for her. So instead of facing herself, she is running, like she is, and has in past relationships (except for the one in which she was soo in love, but he left her, came back and used her, and left her again... .two years after, she was still hung up on the dude when I came into her life).

Strange, but I am at more peace now, knowing. I found a message on her phone to herself on her other phone... .she had deleted the thread to the other guy, in short... ."Every day is one more day closer to the time when we can be together forever... ." Excuse me while I gag... .guy she's only known a few months? A 30+ year old woman has reverted to the emotional maturity of a 13 year old. I don't want that in my life. It was all I could do when we all went out together as a family to dinner last night to smile and be normal in front of the kids. She abandoned our room months ago and I was tired of her coming into "her" bathroom and awaking me until after midnight (I get up around 6 or earlier), so I slept in the kids' room with them. She loves them, I have no doubt, but now I am the one who is strong and will connect with them. I will be their rock, because I know who I am, and my psych is not disintegrated like hers. I just need to shut my sarcastic self up in front of them and let them figure things out as they get older, and help them deal with her. Now, she is confident on the surface, but I know what lies underneath. I know what it is like to grow up with a mentally ill mother (mine had severe depression, and some BPD tendencies, though she was and is not BPD), and when I hit puberty, things got worse as I started becoming a man. But that is another story... .

As for her therapy with her HMO counselor, I will offer her one word of advice, to tell her counselor from me that I have always felt that I was "walking on eggshells" with her from almost the very beginning. If she is smart, she will understand what I am saying. If not, then to ask her colleagues, and one of them might point her in the right direction. While she has been diagnosed with depression, her counselor has missed everything else due my pwBPD's not being honest in therapy. -Turkish

[Turkish]

To reply to myself again, but I don't want to start too many threads... .Looking back at my life, my birth parents abandoned me as a baby due to their drug and alcohol abuse, and my birth mother died from it (she was Native American, and in retrospect offered by my birth aunt, possibly FAS, so she really had no chance in life, despite being adopted into a stable, middle class home). My birth grandfather was so devastated by the loss of his daughter, he couldn't take care of me. Then my birth aunt who back then had problems of her own, and couldn't take on another kid. Then to foster care, which by design, I was from which to be abandoned again. Then adopted at two and a half to my mother (I remember it, and have flashes if memories from foster care), who noticed detachment issues with me, but initially provided me a loving home, co-dependent as it was, she still rescued me. Then later, as my mother's depression  took hold more, she abandoned me to her mental illness. Now, 23 years after I moved out of her house on the day I turned 18 and could sign a lease, I've been abandoned again.

Why am I saying this? Because I know none of that had anything to do with me. It was 100% them, and while I am inextricably linked in what I have had for the past 5 years, I know this is 100% her. From that, I draw strength. I used to have some mild depression, and social anxiety issues, almost into my 30s, but I know who I am, and am completely comfortable with it. Now, to work on my issues with "rescuing" women... .! I thought I had gotten past that, but fooled myself with this one.

[Reg]

Wow Turkish that is quite a life story !

I've had my part myself when I was just an adult, but as I read this, life has been gentle to me.

Don't mind starting several threads, you'll see that this is a normal thing over here.

You mentioned a 13 year old emotionally about your wife.  To be honest, it is more of a 3-4 year old when someone suffers from BPD.  A few months ago the actions of an emotional 3 year old made me think of my ex partner her behavior to be honest.

The age where there's a good mom and a bad mom, a good dad and a bad dad (sounds black and white, it is how a borderline also thinks, no real shades of grey).

Concerning therapy, the denial in a lot of people with borderline is big.  My ex is also in denial.  A therapist can say what they want, they don't know me... .  That is her response not to have to face any responsability.  I had hoped she would at least face the facts for her own daughter, but she refuses to do that as well.

I also saw you mentioning that she has made her decision.  Actually most borderlines are not able to make decisions, and if they make one, it can often change faster then the direction of the wind does.  Think about it, how fast they can swith direction in a conversation or discussion... .  It can become the complete oposite of what they were saying a minute before.

From my own experience, sarcasm and irony are two things someone with borderline can not cope with, at least mine couldn't.  So yes, indeed, you will have to watch that towards your children as well.  And yes they will need someone who's strong.

With the weekend starting, I'd say you have some time to think things over, and you can ask and post over here as much as you want or need, even just to vent !

Reg

[Turkish]

Thanks, Reg. We are going to trade in the $37K (out the door... .this is a high tax state) SUV I just bought our family/her two months ago. That was the final break, I think, which precipitated this, the "control" I had over her. She doesn't see that, but it seems obvious to me. She was talking to the other guy on at least flirty terms before... .now it's "every day is one less day until we can be together... ." Wow. So we'll see how she changes after we get that off our credit, and she can assume a cheaper loan on a much cheaper, smaller car. I eat the down payment I put in, I guess. Oh well, it's just money. But I am going to push her to decide, because I can't live like this anymore. If she is in denial, and won;t go to real therapy, or admit something is wrong with her (she knows, though, she's said it before in the depths of episodic depressions), then I don't want this split-person living with me. She needs to go. I put up with too much emotional abuse for too long.

The sad thing is that she has encouraged me to use something like S.E.T with her in the past, but I shut down in the face of anger. That is because she focuses on herself, and only focuses on my feelings in a co-dependent way. She never took seriously when I told her she was emotionally abusive (not just to me, to her family sometimes, too... .I caused her youngest brother to shut down and go into non-communicative depression "but he should just do what I say and he'd be ok!" How arrogant... .I told her over and over she needed to talk to him with firm, gentleness, but she just went off and actually made a 13 year old cry on several occasions. Very, very sad.

If I had found this site 4 years ago, it would have either scared me to end it, or helped me to make it better. But maybe it all had to end this way, lesson learned, BIG time! Thanks for the support, and hopefully I'll check back Monday with little drama, but I think Sunday I want to lay it on the line and force the decision. So sick of this... .-Turkish

[Clearmind]

Turkish, these relationships are high conflict - it takes two to create a conflict cycle and it only takes one to try to make it better.

I am not blaming you in the slightest - I'm simply saying that to be in such a relationship we need to be the more mature one and know exactly when to talk and when to step away and let things cool down.

I can see your anger and I understand it fully - I have been where you have been - to make it work with your wife we need to find why we are angry - we are in control of our emotions and need to learn how to let go and not take on their issues. I also sense some resentment - correct me if I'm wrong. This too is understandable.

We often feel resentful when our needs are not met and we can cast blame on another. Are you taking care of yourself? Do you have your own interests away from the marriage?

And ultimately yes a decision needs to be made because while in limbo and undecided about the relationship it rarely gets better - because we will perpetually on an emotional level always have one foot out the door.

[Turkish]

Turkish, these relationships are high conflict - it takes two to create a conflict cycle and it only takes one to try to make it better.

I am not blaming you in the slightest - I'm simply saying that to be in such a relationship we need to be the more mature one and know exactly when to talk and when to step away and let things cool down.

I can see your anger and I understand it fully - I have been where you have been - to make it work with your wife we need to find why we are angry - we are in control of our emotions and need to learn how to let go and not take on their issues. I also sense some resentment - correct me if I'm wrong. This too is understandable.

We often feel resentful when our needs are not met and we can cast blame on another. Are you taking care of yourself? Do you have your own interests away from the marriage?

And ultimately yes a decision needs to be made because while in limbo and undecided about the relationship it rarely gets better - because we will perpetually on an emotional level always have one foot out the door.

Things got a lot better after a confrontation Friday night. I came home and she actually cleaned the house, which meant that she re-integrated someowhat. I threw out that she had obviously made her decision (to leave) and she said why would I assume that was her decision? So I calmed down, reminded myself (out loud to her) that I forgot patience and kindness. The next day, we talked for an hour in the morning, and she admitted that she knew that this was indeed all her, her reactions, etc... .We went out away from the kids, and talked for hours more. She told me about the other guy, how a few weeks ago, she realized that he had been lying to her and had someone else not too far on his back burner and she felt cheated on. She said at that point she understood kind of how I felt (this frustrates me, as if she can't understand right and wrong unless it has to do with herself), and distanced herself. She told me some other stuff about him and I spotted three major red flags. He sounds really messed up. I am 10 years older than her; the guy 8 years younger than she. You sure this isn't you being attracted to "fixing" or "mothering" someone? She paused and considered that, and is still thinking about it. I sent her some stuff on co-dependency (which she asked me to, to keep sending her things to read, because she is searching also). I held her hand, looked her in the eyes and said, "who knows you better than anyone in the world?" She looked at me and I saw she understood, no reply for further words necessary, and I was saying several things by that.

As I said, she is a lot"back", not like the last month where she was here, but not here. Last night, I triggered myself (looking at the mindfulness tool to work on that myself). I think it had to do with I still feel no remorse or repentance from her to me for what she did, and that completely conflicts with my world-view and values. I told her, "you haven't yet asked me for my forgiveness, so how can I forgive you?" She said she is still processing it, but was at that point in a state of intense guilt. Uh-oh... .I don't know if I read it in the BPD for Dummies book, or the Walking on Eggshells one, but this was on a chart, and I've seen this cycle before in other areas which had nothing to do with me: The next stage for her will be despair and depression. With the coming of winter, the lack of light is not a good combination. At least I know now what NOT to do as I have done in the past: get mad and frustrated and walk out for a while, triggering a more intense response due to the perceived (or real) abandonment. -Turkish

[Clearmind]

Time out is always encourage BEFORE things escalate so you are right! We do play a role and simply saying "I will talk to you when things are calm" can really help. Unleashing anger on each other feeds the cycle and doesn't help the issue at hand.

Good job