Custody Discussion... Went Well, Or Not

[Turkish]

(Some of this I posted on the Leaving Board) It was calm last night between us. She called my bluff and said I could come to the Halloween party with her if I wanted to. I said, ok, but no. Not if we were not a couple.

I then detailed out the proposed custody agreement with child support, showing my hand that I actually saw a lawyer; whereas, she had just looked online as the possibilities. We both came to the conclusion of doing something like a 3-2-3 thing with both kids due to their ages and not wanting to give them attachment issues (S almost 4, D18mos). Despite her attraction to Buddhism now, she is almost adamant about me having them every Sunday to raise them in my faith (Protestant, Christian). I said missing a day of church won't hurt them, but it almost seems like she is pushing me to have them, if even for a few hours. She is so focused on them now; reiterating that she doesn't want to hurt me financially because she wants me to keep the house to pass on to them later (I think they can work for it like I did, but we both came from dirt poor backgrounds, so I understand where she is coming from).

Of course this triggered her emotionally and she started tearing up at the end of the discussion. She had previously talked about getting out by January whether or not affordable housing went through. Now she is talking December, because she knows I need to be alone (projection? but true for both of us). Next month, every weekend is busy with various things each of us has, and one function with her family in which I will support and take part, since I am part of their family due to the kids. Need to keep that relationship good. Easy, since the stable ones there don't support at all what she is doing or has done.

The bottom line is that she balked when I showed her the amount that was strict guideline for my state. She knows it would hurt me financially... .one, she has always said her intent was to not hurt me that way (her guilt is the one constant in this relationship, much more constant than her periodic blame of me); two, she doesn't want to hurt the kids. I told her that the 529 (college plan) doesn't count for support. She said she wanted me to continue it for our S, and to start one for our D. Of course, I would not be able to afford them, even at the small amount I put it, if I were to hand over more $ to her. All in all, she verbally agreed to accept about $400 less than the guideline support, still let me claim both of them, and it is $300 more than what we had originally agreed to two months ago. The lawyer said to get her to sign now, due to things being stable and she is still in my house. I said this, and also detailed filing with the court. She balked at this as well, saying she didn't see the need to get the courts "in our business." Her family originally came here illegally, though all legal now (ex is a citizen now). And they had some run ins with the local government recently over a home business. I get her concern over that.

I am just not sure what to do at this point. The lawyer offered that I didn't want some little bird talking into her ear later and changing things. I fear that, too. But in looking back at her past relationships, she doesn't let men manipulate her, as she is very prideful (part due to her problem with trusting men). I still want to protect myself somehow, but I don't feel I can force her to sign anything... .binding. She backed off even more when I said we would file with the court. The only thing I can do, I feel, is to document the heck out of everything. Continue keeping my journal. Updating trusted friends (and my T) as possible witnesses later on, though in Family Court, this may not matter. The worst thing, I think, is that I could get hit for tens of thousands of $ in CS years later. Though all of this, she has never bad mouthed me as a father; quite the opposite. She just bad mouthed me on my failures as a romantic partner. She knows I am a good father and provider. So does her family (so does everybody, it's just a fact). I also have the confidence of two of her siblings who don't approve of her doing this at all. The other, likely BPD as well, isn't really trusted by the others as being stable, though he is good to our kids.

[ForeverDad]

Get local legal advice regarding child support obligations and under what circumstances retroactive CS might be ordered.

In my case we were separated for several months.  When our mutual temporary protection orders were being dismissed neither of us paid CS.  Once the first dismissals were done, the schedule was gone and she started blocking  my parenting 100%.  I started the divorce paperwork with a family law attorney.  After I filed I found out that she had filed for CS the day before.  Since divorce trumped CS, her motion was merged into mine.  I'm not sure whether she would have been granted retroactive CS.  But for the divorce case, the order ordered me to pay retroactive CS but failed to set a reasonable payment schedule.  Less than 2 weeks later, at the end of the month, CSEA sent me a notice that I was in default.  Having just paid my attorney, I had to borrow some money from family.  CSEA didn't care, everything was blamed on their inflexible system.

Go forward two years, we settled.  My lawyer said that since ex had almost no income, it would be better for us both tax-wise to pay her more alimony (her tax obligation with no financial impact) in place of CS.  However, my lawyer warned me that she could at any time go back to court or CSEA and demand CS.  She wouldn't be able to seek retroactive, but she would almost surely get it going forward.  So we added a clause that if she sought CS then alimony would be reduced downward.  Apparently she or her lawyer saw the logic that if CS went up then alimony went down and she never upset that apple cart.

You probably are in a different state, so I can't guess what your state's rules are.  Maybe they allow her to settle for less CS.  Maybe not.  Maybe they allow her to settle for more alimony and less CS.  Maybe not.  But very likely if she settles for less CS than standard calcs, I doubt she (or the state) can come back later and demand retroactive CS, not when it was agreed to.  But do get a legal opinion on that.

She wants you to pay into the 529?  How about she uses some of her CS or alimony,if any, to contribute to the 529?  It doesn't have to be you, does it?

Frankly - don't say a word of this to her since you don't want to encourage constantly changing deals - in many jurisdictions if she would sign an agreement, whether for less than the calcs indicate or not, it may not be 'enforceable' or 'locked in' if not entered as a court order or on the record at court.

Be very aware that payments to her made outside of a court order are generally considered 'gifts' to her.  Yes, be sure to write 'child support' on any checks or communications to give yourself as much protection as possible, but there is no absolute guarantee the court would see voluntary payments as CS.  Maybe, maybe not, so walk that path cautiously.

So in summary you need some solid legal opinions on which scenarios might expose you to risks of any retroactive assessments, whether CS, alimony or something else.

As I probably mentioned before, try to be declared as the Residential Parent for School Purposes.  Even if that doesn't directly affect parenting time or custody, it does give you a slight edge in several ways.

[Turkish]

Thanks again, FD. You've been a great guide.

I am lucky I don't have the alimony issue, since we weren't married (though almost this past year... .I can't believe she was open to it finally knowing she was so unhappy), I have it way easier than most here, and you.

I do need to look in to retroactive CS (we're in Cali), and whether my "gifts" to her could be counted. Good point about her contributing to the 529 out of what I give her. In a way, it would help her feel more like she is contributing... .though at some point I need to stop trying to help her grow up. And as long as she is so wrapped up in giving them better lives than us, it does give me a measure of respect in her eyes that I am providing something for the future for them.

Everyone says we will need to eventually file with the court legally for custody. We do, however, live in a poor ethnic community where people kind of... .just make it work. She is part of that community, which is why a lot of this is cultural (including the factors that contributed to her BPD). I blew my free consult... .I don't think my lawyer will talk to me again without the $5K retainer, though I appreciate that she gave me more time than the allotted 1/2 hour. I was referred by my job network, so I will check on getting a consult with another, though I did like this one, just to lay it out. I also suppose there are plenty of sites on the net from which I could get this answer.

I hate all of this... .so unnecessary. Definitely the worst thing that's happened to me in the past 30 years, if not ever, even accounting for a pretty messed up childhood.  Just for the fact of our children being at its nexus (which is really the black hole of BPD).

[nevaeh]

I just found out last week that our Employee Assistance Program (through work) has a network of lawyers that staff may use for personal legal concerns... .kind of like a network of physicians.

Anyway, with that relationship I will get the 30-minute consultation free AND 25% off of the attorney's "going rate" if I retain them.

Maybe your network has a similar benefit?  Worth checking in to?

[Turkish]

I just found out last week that our Employee Assistance Program (through work) has a network of lawyers that staff may use for personal legal concerns... .kind of like a network of physicians.

Anyway, with that relationship I will get the 30-minute consultation free AND 25% off of the attorney's "going rate" if I retain them.

Maybe your network has a similar benefit?  Worth checking in to?

yes,  already done.  who knows,  we might work for the same company.