Superior Court pleadings...

[Nope]

Email from N/BPDx:

5:48pm "What kind of person would deny her own child the love of his father on Christmas?"

6:22pm "Actually, what an interesting public post that would be."

6:58pm "LnL is about to become famous in Court of Appeals published opinions.  Funny how it all works out."

I am not too phased, although it bothers me that I feel guilty about S12 not seeing his dad on Christmas. N/BPDx never asked to see S12, and I never offered, although I did offer on Thanksgiving. S12 opened up to me about stuff going on at school, and he was doing really well after we talked, and I knew if he went to see his dad, there would be a set back.

S12 got an odd text message from his dad: "It's ok S12. I know where you are."

S12 asked me what that meant, and I didn't know. (Drunken texting, is my guess.)

Sounds like he is putting his own distress on your son. His manufactured distress, that is. Clearly your son has a phone with which to contact his father. In most situations where two parents don't live together a phone call is all that happens for some major holidays. But Holidays can be super triggering for everyone, not just a pwBPD. He was probably looking for a reason to feel persecuted and found one.

[maxen]

He was probably looking for a reason to feel persecuted and found one.

that's what i got out of it.

very BPD, this:

5:48pm "What kind of person would deny her own child the love of his father on Christmas?"

"it's your fault".

[Matt]

Can we re-play the days leading up to Christmas, with 20/20 hindsight?

How do you think it would have worked, if you had written him, "S12 would like to see you on Christmas.  Is there a place and time that would work for you - maybe a couple of hours?"

How do you think he would have responded to that?

And then how would you have been able to talk to S12 about that, if it didn't work out?  "I offered to your dad to spend a few hours with you today but he didn't respond.  I'm sorry about that, but let's you and me have a full day - you wanna see a movie?".

Or... .the way I do it now (in a less-volatile situation)... .

"We'll open presents and have breakfast by mid-morning.  If you want the kids to come over for dinner please let us know the time.  S15 wants to be back here by 7:00 p.m. to watch Doctor Who."  That is, "I will do X.  If you want to do Y let us know when and I'll cooperate with that."

More structured communication seems to work better.  (But maybe at this stage, nothing would work for you... .)

As far as the inappropriate texts, can you just block his texts so you don't get them at all?  (I'm assuming you never respond to inappropriate ones.)

[livednlearned]

Can we re-play the days leading up to Christmas, with 20/20 hindsight?

How do you think it would have worked, if you had written him, "S12 would like to see you on Christmas.  Is there a place and time that would work for you - maybe a couple of hours?"

How do you think he would have responded to that?

And then how would you have been able to talk to S12 about that, if it didn't work out?  "I offered to your dad to spend a few hours with you today but he didn't respond.  I'm sorry about that, but let's you and me have a full day - you wanna see a movie?".

I did that with Thanksgiving. N/BPDx seems to be suffering from a lot of paranoia these days, so he was suspicious that I had an ulterior motive.   So he double-checked with S12 to see if it was for real. The issue for me is that lately N/BPDx won't stop cc'ing my L.

With Christmas, it really came down to where S12 was at emotionally. He's had a rocky couple of weeks, and now he's in a better place. His dad is so tricky, so S12 often comes home a bit out of sorts, even just spending short periods there. So I made the decision to not offer anything, but was willing to entertain it if S12 suggested it. If N/BPDx reached out and asked, I would've sorted it out with S12 to see what he wanted.

With blocking texts/emails. I guess I'm becoming an old hat (or is it hand?) at this because the flaming just doesn't affect me like it used to. Like Nope said, holidays are triggering. I was having my own struggles too, leading up the holidays. For N/BPDx, 3 nasty emails is kinda a sign of improvement.

[Matt]

I'm sorry not to remember, but where are you at legally right now - is there a court-ordered schedule?

[livednlearned]

I'm sorry not to remember, but where are you at legally right now - is there a court-ordered schedule?

Yes, 16 hours a month with his dad. Unsupervised. 4 hours Saturday, 4 hours Sunday, every other weekend. It's working for us.

I'm the one whose judge is preparing to file a motion for gatekeeping. So I think it's not likely that there will be a change in custody anytime soon.

That's why N/BPDx is threatening a Supreme Court pleading. He doesn't agree with our judge. 

[Matt]

I'm sorry not to remember, but where are you at legally right now - is there a court-ordered schedule?

Yes, 16 hours a month with his dad. Unsupervised. 4 hours Saturday, 4 hours Sunday, every other weekend. It's working for us.

I'm the one whose judge is preparing to file a motion for gatekeeping. So I think it's not likely that there will be a change in custody anytime soon.

That's why N/BPDx is threatening a Supreme Court pleading. He doesn't agree with our judge.  

So any time on Christmas would have been extra, and you offered that, and got nothing constructive in return... .

To be pro-active, and position yourself as a problem-solver, maybe you could look forward to future holidays, and propose something sensible.

"Looking forward to 2014, let's work out a schedule for holidays, in addition to the schedule now in place.  How about if you have S12 4 hours on Easter, July 4, Thanksgiving and Christmas?  Please let me know the schedule for that at least a week in advance and I'll plan accordingly or let you know if it's a problem."

Might not work, but will at least add to the paper trail, showing you are consistently looking to make things better for S12, and Dad is consistently making things more difficult.

It would also give you a good narrative for S12:  "I have offered your dad that you can be with him a few hours on Easter, etc. but I haven't heard back from him.  So I'm planning that you'll be here those days."

[livednlearned]

I'm sorry not to remember, but where are you at legally right now - is there a court-ordered schedule?

Yes, 16 hours a month with his dad. Unsupervised. 4 hours Saturday, 4 hours Sunday, every other weekend. It's working for us.

I'm the one whose judge is preparing to file a motion for gatekeeping. So I think it's not likely that there will be a change in custody anytime soon.

That's why N/BPDx is threatening a Supreme Court pleading. He doesn't agree with our judge. 

So any time on Christmas would have been extra, and you offered that, and got nothing constructive in return... .

Yep.

But it goes back to what S12 said, when I thought I might have to put down our dog. S12 said, "N/BPDx is going to be mad no matter what, whether you tell him or not. But if you tell him, he'll be mad on the outside, but not as mad on the inside."

[ForeverDad]

To be pro-active, and position yourself as a problem-solver, maybe you could look forward to future holidays, and propose something sensible.

"Looking forward to 2014, let's work out a schedule for holidays, in addition to the schedule now in place.  How about if you have S12 4 hours on Easter, July 4, Thanksgiving and Christmas?  Please let me know the schedule for that at least a week in advance and I'll plan accordingly or let you know if it's a problem."

Might not work, but will at least add to the paper trail, showing you are consistently looking to make things better for S12, and Dad is consistently making things more difficult.

It would also give you a good narrative for S12:  "I have offered your dad that you can be with him a few hours on Easter, etc. but I haven't heard back from him.  So I'm planning that you'll be here those days."

Be careful not to offer time on every major holiday.  In the years to come at least some of those dates you'll be away on vacations or at family events.  Too often we Nice Guys and Gals in an effort to be overly fair can get ourselves hemmed into schedules or obligations of our own making that turn out to be too restrictive.

[Matt]

To be pro-active, and position yourself as a problem-solver, maybe you could look forward to future holidays, and propose something sensible.

"Looking forward to 2014, let's work out a schedule for holidays, in addition to the schedule now in place.  How about if you have S12 4 hours on Easter, July 4, Thanksgiving and Christmas?  Please let me know the schedule for that at least a week in advance and I'll plan accordingly or let you know if it's a problem."

Might not work, but will at least add to the paper trail, showing you are consistently looking to make things better for S12, and Dad is consistently making things more difficult.

It would also give you a good narrative for S12:  "I have offered your dad that you can be with him a few hours on Easter, etc. but I haven't heard back from him.  So I'm planning that you'll be here those days."

Be careful not to offer time on every major holiday.  In the years to come at least some of those dates you'll be away on vacations or at family events.  Too often we Nice Guys and Gals in an effort to be overly fair can get ourselves hemmed into schedules or obligations of our own making that turn out to be too restrictive.

Yes, so maybe you will want to keep it simple and just look forward to the next big holiday, and if it will work for you, offer that time to him well in advance, and then say nothing more about it, and see how he handles it... .

[livednlearned]

Yes, so maybe you will want to keep it simple and just look forward to the next big holiday, and if it will work for you, offer that time to him well in advance, and then say nothing more about it, and see how he handles it... .

That's something to think about, planning the year's holidays in advance. I've been so focused on keeping my head above water, I wasn't really thinking that far ahead.

The thing is... .N/BPDx didn't even ask for time with S12. Not in court, not at Thanksgiving, not for Christmas. My T told me before I left that N/BPDx can't handle parenting, which either is, or at least looks like, N/BPDx not wanting to spend too much time with S12.

That's why I decided, since S is 12, to let him be the guide here. I feel him out casually about what he wants to do during the holidays, then if he suggests it, or asks for it, I try to make it happen. He knows that I will support whatever kind of relationship he wants to have with his dad. I've never stated it like that, have just done it through actions. I mentioned to S12 that Mythbusters was coming to town and asked him if he wanted to go. He said that might be something his dad would take him to see, because they watch the show together. I knew it would never happen, but told S12 I would help make arrangements for him to go with his dad, but maybe start with the first step, which is to tell his dad about the show, then make sure he got the tickets, then let me know what day and time.

Never happened.

And that's ok. S12 was mildly disappointed but moved on.

Once all this legal fee and Supreme Court pleading nonsense is over (ever?) then maybe we'll all just get down to the ordinary business of living, and holidays won't feel so fraught.

EDIT: Probably more accurate to say I will support any healthy relationship S12 wants to have with his dad.  

[Free One]

The thing is... .N/BPDx didn't even ask for time with S12. Not in court, not at Thanksgiving, not for Christmas. My T told me before I left that N/BPDx can't handle parenting, which either is, or at least looks like, N/BPDx not wanting to spend too much time with S12.

You can't force ex to be a parent. In my opinion, if he wanted to be or was capable of being one, then he would've fought for holiday rights. I think that offering him time proactively is trying to parent for him or force him to parent. You are essentially rescuing him from the consequences of his actions by doing so (codependency!). I think you are on track letting S12 be the guide as to whether or not he wants to see dad on holidays. And, if dad asks to see him, then you can certainly work out an agreement.

[livednlearned]

You can't force ex to be a parent. In my opinion, if he wanted to be or was capable of being one, then he would've fought for holiday rights. I think that offering him time proactively is trying to parent for him or force him to parent. You are essentially rescuing him from the consequences of his actions by doing so (codependency!). I think you are on track letting S12 be the guide as to whether or not he wants to see dad on holidays. And, if dad asks to see him, then you can certainly work out an agreement.

That's pretty much where I've landed on this.

Just checked my mail -- nothing from N/BPDx. Yesterday was the deadline the judge gave him.

[Matt]

... .but be careful not to add unfairly to S12's burdens.

Usually kids aren't involved in scheduling decisions when they're very young, but have a lot of choice when they're older.  My D17 pretty much makes her own decisions - I discuss the schedule with her and we come to an agreement, and she discusses it with her mom too.  For the last couple of years - and even more so now that she's driving - I'm more a coach than a decider.

S15 needs more structure.  I ask his input, but sometimes put my foot down, to make sure things work out, and he accepts that (and so does his mom).

Early on, it was murkier.  What made things work was when I stepped up, considered all the factors, and put forward a plan that made sense for everybody.  The lawyers, the court, and the professionals involved all encouraged me to do that, and supported me when I did it - they all (and the kids too) (and their mom too) seemed to recognize pretty clearly that somebody had to take the lead and it had to be me.  When I've done that things have gone well.

I think you'll experience that dynamic too, after this initial period of conflict and chaos.  S12 should be heard, but it will be best if he isn't the "decider" - too much stress for a kid his age.

[livednlearned]

... .but be careful not to add unfairly to S12's burdens.

Usually kids aren't involved in scheduling decisions when they're very young, but have a lot of choice when they're older.  My D17 pretty much makes her own decisions - I discuss the schedule with her and we come to an agreement, and she discusses it with her mom too.  For the last couple of years - and even more so now that she's driving - I'm more a coach than a decider.

S15 needs more structure.  I ask his input, but sometimes put my foot down, to make sure things work out, and he accepts that (and so does his mom).

Early on, it was murkier.  What made things work was when I stepped up, considered all the factors, and put forward a plan that made sense for everybody.  The lawyers, the court, and the professionals involved all encouraged me to do that, and supported me when I did it - they all (and the kids too) (and their mom too) seemed to recognize pretty clearly that somebody had to take the lead and it had to be me.  When I've done that things have gone well.

I think you'll experience that dynamic too, after this initial period of conflict and chaos.  S12 should be heard, but it will be best if he isn't the "decider" - too much stress for a kid his age.

He knows he isn't the decider. He also knows that if he wants to see his dad outside their scheduled time together, that I will work with his dad on it.

The sad (but complicated) truth is that S12 is kinda ambivalent about spending time with his dad. He never puts up a fuss when he goes over there, but never -- in 3 years -- has he asked to see his dad. The only time that came close to asking is this Thanksgiving when he said, "Am I going to be at dad's for Thanksgiving?" And I said no one had made arrangements, but I could contact his dad and see if he was going to be in town. S12 said, "Yeah, I guess so."

My hunch is that N/BPDx cannot help himself from targeting me when he spends time with S12, and that makes S12 feel bad. S12 just wants to hang out with his dad without feeling the conflict.  :'(  Based on the text message that S12 just shared, I think N/BPDx keeps the conflict alive in a confusing way, enough that S12 knows it's about me, but it's too indirect and strange to address directly. Sending the message, "It's ok, S12. I know where you are" is weird, no matter what age you are.

I'm not sure if paranoia makes a difference among our cases, and how we parent around it, but that's been the hardest part to understand and manage, now that the conflict is on low heat. N/BPDx thinks that someone other than me is sending emails to him from my account. I think he talks about that kind of stuff with S12. It's hard stuff to deal with as an adult, much less a kid who desperately wants to be "normal."

[Matt]

Yeah, those sound like pretty important signals from S12... .