Tolerance for recreational drugs?

[LittleThings]

2nd strike for our BPD/bipolar DD, 19. A few months ago we found she'd been smoking pot in our house after she returned from college (hasn't returned) and we said in no uncertain terms, no weed.

She promised she'd stop, but not before she had a blowup and said "you think I'm a pot head! I only use it to go to sleep." And "My therapist said it's no big deal."    She does have various meds to help with sleep, as well as.

She's finally got a job, and has kept up with it, save for a few times~she had a panic attack one time and was in b/w meds another and was too depressed.

The place she works sells, among other popular items like tee shirts and mugs with expletives on them, sex toys and pot smoking accessories. She could work many places, but chose this as her first pick. A job is a job... .or is it?

My husband said the car smelled like pot the other night, so I went up to her room and found a bong, and a pipe, both seem to have been used regularly. She has been recently shutting her bedroom door claiming we are too noisy downstairs. We had given her the benefit of the doubt at this point... .

We both agreed to wait until after Christmas to address this issue, but I'm struggling with choosing the right words. I tend to get very angry when I am lied to.

We would like to ask her to stop, leave the door open and stop burning all candles and incense in her room as well.

She has spent $ on the pot and the "accessories" while behind on paying for car insurance, and borrowed $40 from me.

I know many of you struggle with your kids doing much worse things, and may have higher tolerance for "stuff".

I am feeling that 3 strikes you're out, but my husband is not of the same mind. I know that we need to make certain allowances for our children with mental illness, but wonder how you all handle these things in your home.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

Hi Littlethings!

That's a tough situation.  It's all about figuring out what your boundaries are.  Is this something you can look the other way about or not.  I think you see a lot of leniency with parents on this board because we are looking to change what we can control and trying to let go of the things we can't.  You have control over behavior in your own home.  She is an adult and capable of living with her choices.  I'd give my adult daughter a choice of whether she is going to stop smoking pot in my home or find her own place and get high to her hearts content.  If she chose to leave, I would help her find a place and hope she sees that it would be much easier to just not get high. 

First you and your husband are going to have to figure out what the game plan is going to be.  If you two aren't on the same page then it will just lead to arguing while she continues to get high in her room.

Questions to consider:

Are you certain your boundary is no smoking pot in your home/car?

What will the consequences be if she continues?

How far are you willing to go to enforce the consequences (see her homeless?  call the police etc)

How can you make sure you show you love your daughter while you are setting these new boundaries?

Parenting 101: Never start a fight you can't/won't win.

Best of luck!  Please update us when you can!

-crazed

[LittleThings]

Thanks crazedncrazymom,

My DH feels we should tell her "We found these things that lead us to believe you are smoking pot. What is going on?"

I guess that puts the ball in her court to fess up, and then we can address it further, as in "We will give you another chance." My husband is not ok with the idea of ultimatums, at least at this point.

I am definitely the more hard*ss about it, but am willing to take this a bit more slowly, I suppose in light of the fact that she is actually going to work and being more pleasant to those around her.

But, yes it is a boundary that we are going to try to keep... .by keeping our eyes and ears open, asking for the door to be left open, taking the it off the hinges if we need, taking the car keys. We also need to enforce the paying for insurance and money she owes.

She also needs to get herself into DBT, but so far says she is not ready. :'(

I don't know how it works to ask a child you love to leave your home, while still assuring they know that you love them... .haven't been there. We hope not to get that far.

[crazedncrazymom]

LittleThings,

It sounds like you two have a plan.   I think taking the door off her room and the keys away will definitely get her attention.

Best of luck!

-crazed

[radioguitarguy]

Hi LittleThings,

While I was reading your post, it felt I was re-reading one of my own. We have a ds29 and my wife and I are attempting to figure out what we can live with and/or what boundaries to set. My wife is also the hard ass in this situation and all I want is a peaceful house, which we don't have if ds is confronted with any talk of his behavior.

Our ds has lived downstairs on the couch since last February. We asked him to leave in November of 2012 for smoking in his room, and believe me, we gave him many warnings... .cig burns in the mattress, on his clothes. We finally had to follow through plus it was only a matter of time before my house went up in smoke. Like your daughter, our son is also a big fan of pot. He says it's the only drug that takes care of his anxiety and he has been on a regimen of anti anxiety meds for the last 2 years but has stopped. After spending the month of December and January couch surfing, he ran out of options so we told him he could sleep on the couch and that's where he remains today.

Unlike your dd, my son completed a 6 month DBT outpatient program at Yale/New Haven. He did learn some valuable skills on how to rethink and handle certain behaviors. DBT is hard work and my son isn't really into working on anything for an extended amount of time. Basically it's like many other things... .What you put into it is what you get out of it. He is on Medicaid but unfortunately it does not cover one on one therapy which he really said he wanted to do. After the program ended, he began his one on one therapy like he wished for. He ended up going twice and said he didn't bond with the therapist.

He does have a part time job that takes care of his pot, cigs, and gas for his car. He's on methadone and goes about 350 pounds. His mom and I feel like we're just watching him die slowly. One of your questions in your post was, "I don't know how it works to ask a child you love to leave your home." It's a feeling that can't be described. The first time we had to ask him to leave was 8 years ago after a lamp throwing raging incident. Each child and their circumstances are unique which translates to there is hardly ever a "right" answer on what to do. I'm sure we've been enabling him which makes us feel better, but is it helping him get better. I wish I could tell you exactly what to do to make everything better. I've been looking for that same "answer" for our ds29 for the last year.

RGG

[LittleThings]

RGG,

My heart goes out to you. The fact that your son is back in your house and you get to "watch the show" has got to be excruciatingly painful. I hope he continues with therapy, and that you find some light.

Our DD is regularly going to therapy, taking her meds (probabaly not the anti-anxiety one) and seeing her pscychiatrist. She is also working her PT job regularly, (and meeting her "supplier"?) The rest of the time she spends in bed watching shows, or sleeping, coming down for food and the occasional conversation. She burns fragrant candles in her room, and yesterday I came home to find her in bed sleeping with a candle burning away next to her bed (most likely to disguise the pot smell)... .dangerous as you mention... .and this needs to stop.

I totally agree with you that we just want peace in our home, and will avoid difficult conversations to maintain it, no matter how enabling it is.

I believe that weed is the anti-axiety drug of choice for her right now, but this contributes to the "I don't care" attitude. Her current relationship just ended. I'm willing to bet the pot had something to do with it.

She does not seem to have any other methods to deal with her anxiety such as taking a walk, doing yoga, exercising, cooking/eating properly, reading... .even taking one class at the community college. It's no life for a 19 year old. My husband and I will urge her to do the DBT sooner rather than later.

I feel as though I ought to call the therapist and psych and tell them she is smoking weed.

Any professional worth his/her degree would not condone this, would they?

Today we will be discussing this topic with our daughter, as we've waited until after the holidays... again, to maintain some peace during what is supposed to be a festive time.

[qcarolr]

LittleThings - I do hope you are able to have this conversation with your D today

It is hard to set aside my expectations when I am in a similar situation with my BPDDD27. As my dh tends to remind - it never goes how I anticipate, my worrying is does not help. He is right. I still worry and have expectations about her response. And it is always different than what I want.

Pot seems to be the anti-anxiety med of choice for many. It does work with my DD, and we did allow her to use it in our home. We asked her to smoke outside, which she did at first. No privacy, too many neighbors watching... .I could see how moderate us did help her be more calm, able to participate in our family, able to sleep... .

I also learned later, I am very ignorant about drugs in general, that the increases beyond moderate pot use often came with use of meth. To soften the withdrawal. And the meth contributed to her raging episodes, scabs on her face, withdrawal from family participation. Ultimately it led to her being evicted from our home. Hardest thing to do.

We are now supporting her with a place to live and some food help. She is participating in a dual-dx probation program (DWAI from 2011; harassment charges from 2013 re: exbf). There are TLC's (tiny little changes) in a positive direction. She no longer asks to come to the house (this is about the safe zone for our gd8), and expresses her appreciation for our help.

She has experienced homelessness often. We first would not let her return to our home in Nov 2009, for almost 2 years. I had limited contact and limited financial assistance. I believed she would access the homeless programs and get herself off the street. She became a part of the homeless community, and is still connected to her friends there today. Even when she lived in our home, she spent days out in her community.

I cannot know if this is the path she needs to find her own way. It has been a harsh one for her, and oh so painful for dh and I. And for her little girl too. gd has always lived in our home, and we have legal custody. And have not been successful in protecting our little gd from impacts of DD's roller coaster life.

In the past 18 months I have put much effort into building a support network for myself. Being here at bpdfamily was a good start, and still a key part of this. Building a better, more open relationship with my dh has been key. He has become this rock for our family. Positive changes for him with a new boss at work really allowed some of the changes to bloom with him. I returned to a faith community, very different than any before. It is a very healing place for me. I have pushed to overcome my belief I in self-sufficiency to reach out to other women here. I am also seeing a T for just me, continuing to work diligently with the child/family T gd and I see, and trying to put some energy into taking better care of my health - mental and physical.

Little THings - what support network to you have to lean on? Your dh? You together as a couple? Have you had a chance to work through any of the tools and lesson on the sidebar on the right of this page?

You and your dh can figure this out so it works for each of you and your family. Be kind to yourselves.

qcr

[LittleThings]

We had the conversation with our daughter, and yes it went differently than we expected. This is fresh in my mind so here goes... .

We asked calmly about the pot, when and how much she was smoking.

She told us she has gotten by with pretending she is ok, but is utterly miserable, with no hope of ever having any kind of life, going to college or being anything other than a burden. Wishes she could move out so as not to have us see her. She said we must look at her as a disgusting miserable mess and that we should never have had a daughter like her, and that she is good for nothing, and only hurts everyone she comes in contact with. Said the pot is the only thing that helps her sleep when she just cannot turn off her brain.

She told us to focus on our son (called him a prodigy) and forget about her. (straight A's in HS, she got a 2090 on her SAT's and got into all 3 colleges she applied to-completed only 1 semester~does it even matter, or does it make it more painful?) Said she's tired of trying.

I asked if therapy was helping and she said no, she walked out on her therapist last time because she wanted to talk about her breakup and my DD didn't want to. She said she doesn't want to talk about this anymore and we should give up and stop trying to help her. Said the pot is the least of her t's concerns.

And, "We cannot ever understand."

All we said is it makes us sad to see her in pain, and that we want to help her get the help she needs.

We were very calm and I urged her (more than once) to try the DBT, because it is designed for people in her situation. She said she doesn't have the strength.

Is that all that's left? :'(

Sigh.

[LittleThings]

After I posted the last update, daughter went upstairs and posted on a social media site. Apparently a friend said he wanted to get together with her and she said probably not a good idea because I don't know if I will be around much longer.

So, he contacted the police and a State Trooper showed up at the door, questioned us, and we told him what was going on. (not about the pot, but about our recent conversation) and the hopelessness. He actually went up to her room and woke her up to talk to her. He asked her if she was OK, and told her there is help.

He spoke to us and said he understands what we are going through, and that it's hard, but they are there anytime we need them and to call anytime.

I think I will call her therapist in the AM.

What else can we do?

[llbee814]

Blessings for that state trooper.  Amazing and unusual response,  in my experience,  to have gotten such compassion from law enforcement.  I hope she recognizes what a good friend she has that made that call, too.  I would want to call her therapist, also.  The only concern that I would have is that your dd has expressed that she doesn't feel that this  therapist helps, being that she walked out on them last time.  Can you explore the possibility with dd about finding a therapist that she is comfortable with and fits better with her?  Back in the day with my own dd, I wound up going back to a therapist that I had "fired" for her.  Best thing I ever did, .  Things with our BPD children can be so upside down.  I learned that her comfort level with the therapist was valuable, first and foremost.  It was a positive turning point for my dd, and me, as it turned out.  If our kiddo can't be open with their own therapist, who can they be open with.  They need to feel it is safe.  I must say though, that the therapist was also open to me... .   mostly with dd's knowledge.   

[LittleThings]

Thank you llbee.

To elaborate on what was said yesterday, I will add that while she did say therapy isn't helping/working, when I urged her to try a different therapy/DBT, she said "I can't trust anyone else." So she does trust her therapist, but she isn't making much progress.

She is in a cycle as we can see it, of entering relationships, being very happy (this new relationship will "fix things" as you will), then as the relationship starts to crumble, because the person finds out how difficult it is to be with her, she goes back to self loathing and feeling suicidal. The person "always leaves" as she said yesterday. They "don't have time for me. I'm not worth their time." (Also, she stated that we only love her because we have to. :'()

So then when we talk about her taking new action/changing therapy, she is too distraught to actually do anything but curl up into a ball. I hope this time it's different.

I was very, very grateful for the Trooper's response and how he handled the situation.

She came downstairs after her "nap" and told us it was her friend who had called them. She was conversant with us, so this was a positive thing. I told her that the Trooper said that we should call anytime we feel we need help.

I will be calling the therapist soon.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[PaulaJeanne]

When my BPD daughter 20 was around 11, she was already in therapy. Her older sister was around 17 & occasionally smoked pot in the house. I had trouble enforcing rules, especially since my husband occasionally smokes pot. I vehemently disagree with this, but I can't control everything.

Anyway, so dd tells her therapist about her older sister, and the therapist next called me into the session where I see dd is sobbing hysterically, and therapist says if I don't put a stop to this, she's calling Child Protection Services and they will take dd away from us. My poor dd, too young at the time to have received a real diagnosis of BPD, but desparately afraid of abandonment & separation, was traumatized!

I had to stop taking her to that therapist, but I was afraid CPS would come to my house. I hired another, more reasonable therapist, to help me get through all of this.

Just be careful about allowing recreational drug use if you have younger children in the house.

I hate marijuana, but I am soo happy it's on the way to legalization. One less stupid thing to worry about when there are so many real & scary things to worry about.

When I look back at all these things, I don't know how I'm still functioning. 

[crazedncrazymom]

I'm so sorry you're going through this!  I know how sad and scary it is to have a child who feels like killing themselves.  It's such a difficult situation.  It's hard not to feel hopeless and down because you don't know what to do.  Your daughter's feelings will pass and hopefully she will feel stronger soon.  It's great that she was able to reach out to you.  That is the first step towards getting those feelings to abate.  You guys are doing such a great job being supportive.  She's lucky to have you.

-crazed

[LittleThings]

cjw17... .I can imagine that was horrifying for both you and your DD! I know marijuana is not the worst thing in the world, but yes, we do have a younger son. He is 15, and I am very frank with him about not smoking. He thinks his sister is stupid to smoke.

At this point we don't allow it, but we are not able to control everything, obviously.

I think her therapist is reasonable (I saw her briefly years ago for my own, different stuff), but it's also frustrating when you hear that your child feels suicidal.

Thanks, crazed, your comments were so helpful 

[radioguitarguy]

Hi LittleThings... .

Knowing they are in such emotional pain has got to be the worst feeling in the world for a parent... .wanting to fix it, hoping you can get through to them. I know that your DD's emotional turmoil has you incredibly stressed out, but after being on this BPD roller coaster with our DS for the last 10 years, I've learned that it's so important to also take care of ourselves which is why you've joined all of us here at this amazing website. I would also like to recommend the "Family Connections" program, if there is one within a reasonable driving distance from you. My wife is a Family Connections group leader and has been for the last 8 years. I can't say enough good things about this group. Many of the folks still come regularly that we all get together 3 or 4 times a year to socialize. As you've already experienced on bpdfamily.com, there is no one who understands what you're going through than another parent with a child who has this hideous disorder. I wish your daughter all the best for the New Year. Please keep in touch.

RGG