Parental Alienation

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello to all, 

I am just beginning process of divorce with BPD and we have a 12 year old daughter.  Although my daughter and I have always been very close, about three weeks ago her behaviors and attitudes towards me changed drastically.   I have no doubt that she is being. Coached and dad is the bad guy.   She also started acting like she is angry with me and can't remember or explain why. 

Although my BPD partner initially agreed we should take her to counseling, she then shifted and said she must "screen" any counselors my daughter sees and then told my daughter mom didn't think daughter needed counseling and dad was making her go. 

I am gravely concerned she is being heavily coached.   

When I brought these concerns to lawyer, he pretty much blew it off! 

Asking for help, tips and guidance from anyone in how to handle this situation. 

Thanks! 

[Survived?]

Hello to all, 

I am just beginning process of divorce with BPD and we have a 12 year old daughter.  Although my daughter and I have always been very close, about three weeks ago her behaviors and attitudes towards me changed drastically.   I have no doubt that she is being. Coached and dad is the bad guy.   She also started acting like she is angry with me and can't remember or explain why. 

Although my BPD partner initially agreed we should take her to counseling, she then shifted and said she must "screen" any counselors my daughter sees and then told my daughter mom didn't think daughter needed counseling and dad was making her go. 

I am gravely concerned she is being heavily coached.   

When I brought these concerns to lawyer, he pretty much blew it off! 

Asking for help, tips and guidance from anyone in how to handle this situation. 

Thanks! 

[thisyoungdad]

I would either seriously push the issue with my lawyer or fire them! Or both if they don't respond to pushing, unless he has a really good reason why he "blew you off" so to speak. You certainly should not sit back and let this continue, if it were me and my daughter I would push my attorney and then fire them if they weren't willing to pursue it more. Where are you in the divorce process? That is just my opinion from my own battle against this very thing but my daughter is now 3 1/2 so it was a little different.

[Nope]

There is an issue here that your lawyer understands but for some reason lawyers are reluctant to actually say: "Prove it." The reality is that unless you have sufficiently proven that she is a liar in court and ruined her credibility or unless you have actual evidence that your daughter is being coached then your lawyers hands are pretty much tied.

First, put together as much evidence as you can of a prior good relationship with your daughter. Pictures, videos, drawings she has given you in the past etc. The only good news is that if it gets so bad that it's obvious then maybe eventually something can be done about it. I know, cold comfort while you lose months or maybe even years of bonding with your kid.

[livednlearned]

Survived,

Are you taking your daughter to her counseling? Or is it her mom... .

Because if it's always her mom, then it's possible she is bending the therapists ear. Be sure to stay involved in the counseling, even if your ex makes it very difficult for you. Ask to speak to the counselor on your own so she knows what kind of parent you are. In parental alienation cases, it can get really hard for people to figure out who is telling the truth. In general, though, the parent who is NOT doing the alienating tries to support some kind of relationship with the other parent. Whereas the alienating parent starts to poison the child's thinking about the other parent.

What you don't want is for your daughter's therapist to collude with your ex, and become a third-party witness who testifies that you are a bad dad. Stay involved in counseling if you can.

[Matt]

Fire the lawyer, and read ":)ivorce Poison" by Richard Warshak, which is about alienation - it has practical approaches for dealing with it.

As you're looking for a new lawyer, ask if they have experience dealing with situations like yours, and what lessons they have learned from those cases.  Choose the one who accepts what you tell her and commits to provide the help you need.

[DontPanic]

The scars from this type of attack run deep in children. My daughter went through the same and though she now see's the reality of the situation (my ex lost her mind completely, then committed suicide), she distrusts therapist greatly because the ex early on got a therapist that was young and inexperienced and believed everything she said. my daughter now wont talk to a therapist even though it would clearly help her. Our lives didnt turn around till we went to a therapist that had experience with people with BPD and was able to see the situation for what it was.

[Matt]

I talked to the school counselor a couple of days after my wife and I separated (after she physically attacked me, then called 911 and accused me of assault, and we both spent the night in jail).

The counselor was eager to help, and offered to keep an eye on my kids, then S8 and D10.

She also recommended her predecessor who was in private practice, and I talked to that private counselor the next day, and brought the kids to see her a few days later, and continued to bring them to see her for a couple of years.

I didn't tell them, ":)on't tell your mom.", but I also didn't tell their mom.  I figured, it's easier to get forgiveness than permission.

During our divorce, her lawyer tried to make an issue of it, but I was able to say, "I thought it would be best for the kids to have someone they could talk to in confidence, so I got a recommendation from Ms. SchoolCounselor and took them to see Ms. PrivateCounselor.  I didn't talk to Mrs. Matt about it because I didn't want to argue about it, I just wanted to provide the kids with that resource."  My lawyer backed me up and my wife's lawyer backed down - I hadn't done anything wrong, and in fact had done what was best for the kids.

[Thunderstruck]

My SO chose a lawyer specifically because he has experience with PA. One of the things he suggested was a "hook campaign". Establish routines or have pets or whatever at your place so that you hook her in and she has those bonds/happy thoughts.

[livednlearned]

My SO chose a lawyer specifically because he has experience with PA. One of the things he suggested was a "hook campaign". Establish routines or have pets or whatever at your place so that you hook her in and she has those bonds/happy thoughts.

That's really interesting. In Divorce Poison, Warshak talks about how a father bought a puppy, and his daughter (who was being alienated by her mother) refused to interact with the puppy. When a child rejects not only the parent (especially one she formerly had a good relationship with) but anyone connected to that parent, like extended family, and puppies, Warshak took that to mean that serious alienation had occurred.

[Nope]

I'm sorry, but this just all puts me in mind of what happened in my situation.

My S.O. got me a kitten for Christmas a little over a year ago and then a few months later we took in a stray. So we have two cats. The kids were excited to meet our cats so we sent them pictures of the two of them. They had a kitten of their own at their BPD mom's house but pets don't last very long there. They always either die, go missing, or are given away. We recently found at that the kitten they had at their moms was killed by a dog and BPD mom went out and got two new kittens that she brought home for the kids. Of course, they look exactly like our two cats.

I guess my advice would be not to get too caught up in a war that involves animals. If you want a cat or dog in the house, then go ahead and get one. But be prepared that the BPD parent can do the same.

[Survived?]

Thank you all so much for the advice and suggestions... .

I have ordered both books but more importantly I do understand what you are all saying and where this is going.   I am trying desperately to find another lawyer!  Contacted local domestic violence agency and they were appalled lawyer would tell me they don't gaur guan ad lidems in our community... . advocate told me they do it all the time! Lawyer is not serving me so if I can find a way or afford it... . he's gone!   

Lately things have improved slightly with daughter and I am cautiously encouraged.  I know my wife has already run off with new partner or pursuing one,  so giving me extra time with daughter is convenient for her now.  I'm trying to take advantage of this time (she's off for 10 day vacation to Hawaii) and to use all of your suggestions and seems to be working with daughter.   Like I said we were always very close, so it's going to be harder to alienate me.   Of course the whole purpose for BPD ex is to get me out, this allowing her to move next guy in.  She has done this each of three prior marriages, and she's doing it again.   

Thanks Matt for suggestion with schoo counselor I discussed situation with him and asking he give me recommendation for counseling.  Of course wife doesn't want counseling now, as daughter will certainly open up about wife previous behaviors suicides, rages etc.   

Thank you all again and any other suggestions are more than welcome. 

Special thanks lived... . your anchor!