How borderline was your borderline?

[fromheeltoheal]

BPD is a disorder of intimacy. The pwBPD is not mirroring your heart of gold, before trigger day occurs(closeness/intimacy), the pwBPD is showing you what they crave like all of us; love, closeness, attention, etc. Once that is achieved(trigger day), the disorder triggers their abandonment fears(real AND imagined). And their awful other side appears. To repulse what they once craved, which is you, me, us; the person closest to them. What we experienced in idealization and devaluation are both real.

I agree Ironman, and I would take it one step further.  My ex mirrored me, showed me what she considered the best sides of me and added her flirty charm to affect an attachment with, yes, but also to assimilate what she saw as my good into her, to counteract her bad.  A sufferer, lacking a fully formed self, looks to attachment with others to complete them, literally, and she enjoyed the buzz of being me immensely, or at least taking the parts she wanted.  In the beginning I was the perfect human, the person who would erase a lifetime of pain, by adding me to her as a complete individual.

Fantasy of course, and the core of the idealization stage.  Well, the fantasy slipped; she had me totally snowed in the beginning, of course someone who  borrowed, stole all my good traits and showed them to me is going to be pretty damn attractive to me, and I expected that to be the real her.  And she expected the assimilation to last, that somehow she could permanently keep what she stole and life would be grand.  Well, the reality set in, she compared the her she hated to the me she saw, noticed the difference, felt unlovable and shameful, went outside the relationship for validation, temporary affection and reckless abandon to soothe, felt more shame over that because she's attacked someone who was practicing loving her unconditionally, and it was all just too much.  So time to off all those emotions on me, I'm the scumbag, the scapegoat, leaving me bewildered and destroyed.

So I'm going back to incompatible.  I'm never going to be able to create a healthy relationship with someone wired like that, someone half baked looking to steal my me in search of completion.  Autonomous individuals with enticing personalities yes, disordered personalities no, so off she goes into the pile of the ones that didn't work; time to take my new wrinkles out into the world, good thing they call it character at my age.

[Ironmanrises]

Mine was a waif that showed very few signs the first year and a half. Their were some minor red flags but I was having fun after getting out of a long marriage. I chalked up most of it as her not being ready to commit as she was also coming out of a a long relationship. Her quietness hid much of the dysfunction. She seemed shy and innocent. She was intelligent but not tons of common sense. It was cute. I enjoyed teaching her and providing her the better things in life (my CoD issues!). I felt like I was duped. She had to know she had a problem.

It is my story too, pretty much... . She is uBPD.

In addition, mine was taking antidepressant (for years) as we met, had a 10 years of therapy behind her, and was once committed in a mental institution. She hid that she took medication until almost a year into the relationship. I convinced her to stop (and frankly, in retrospect, they didn't make much difference), because I don't think she was depressed at that point anymore).

I never know what they might have diagnosed during her treatment. During our relationship, never saw her as a "sick" girl, and never dug into it. She told me that she had had a severe depression. I know BPD often is mistaken for something else. Like e.g. if the BPD has caused a depression, then the depression is diagnosed, instead of the root cause, which in that case would be the BPD. Correct me if I am wrong... .

As to your last sentence:

"She had to know she had a problem"

Mine would often tell me:

"there is something wrong with me, I don't know why I act the way I do"

To which I would reply:

"nonsense, you are a completely normal girl, who just had some bad experiences"

Before we split up, her father died. During that time, the child of a friend of her was diagnosed ADHD. She started reading a lot of ADHD and was convinced she was suffering from that too. Again I told her it was nonsense. As far as I know ADHD also has a lot in common with BPD.

I don't know that my ex is BPD. But I sure know that something is wrong with her! My biggest mistake is that I never realized it during relationship! Must have been pretty terrible for her too, to be overridden by me, when she feels something is wrong. At the time I just though she was severely PMS! 

I heard the same exact line in idealization when I let her back in for round 2. As idealization progressed, maybe 2-3 weeks later, when I brought up that very line to her, her reply, "there is nothing wrong with me." It was maybe a month later that trigger day occurred.

[Ironmanrises]

BPD is a disorder of intimacy. The pwBPD is not mirroring your heart of gold, before trigger day occurs(closeness/intimacy), the pwBPD is showing you what they crave like all of us; love, closeness, attention, etc. Once that is achieved(trigger day), the disorder triggers their abandonment fears(real AND imagined). And their awful other side appears. To repulse what they once craved, which is you, me, us; the person closest to them. What we experienced in idealization and devaluation are both real.

I agree Ironman, and I would take it one step further.  My ex mirrored me, showed me what she considered the best sides of me and added her flirty charm to affect an attachment with, yes, but also to assimilate what she saw as my good into her, to counteract her bad.  A sufferer, lacking a fully formed self, looks to attachment with others to complete them, literally, and she enjoyed the buzz of being me immensely, or at least taking the parts she wanted.  In the beginning I was the perfect human, the person who would erase a lifetime of pain, by adding me to her as a complete individual.

Fantasy of course, and the core of the idealization stage.  Well, the fantasy slipped; she had me totally snowed in the beginning, of course someone who  borrowed, stole all my good traits and showed them to me is going to be pretty damn attractive to me, and I expected that to be the real her.  And she expected the assimilation to last, that somehow she could permanently keep what she stole and life would be grand.  Well, the reality set in, she compared the her she hated to the me she saw, noticed the difference, felt unlovable and shameful, went outside the relationship for validation, temporary affection and reckless abandon to soothe, felt more shame over that because she's attacked someone who was practicing loving her unconditionally, and it was all just too much.  So time to off all those emotions on me, I'm the scumbag, the scapegoat, leaving me bewildered and destroyed.

So I'm going back to incompatible.  I'm never going to be able to create a healthy relationship with someone wired like that, someone half baked looking to steal my me in search of completion.  Autonomous individuals with enticing personalities yes, disordered personalities no, so off she goes into the pile of the ones that didn't work; time to take my new wrinkles out into the world, good thing they call it character at my age.

Brought me to tears Fromheel. Very perceptive post.

[Lucky Jim]

For those who say pwBPD have nothing to offer, I would say, they teach us valuable lessons about ourselves and even if they can't change they give us the gift of being able to address our own issues.

Like how you put that, Murbay.  Thanks!  LJ

[charred]

You put it very nicely that we are given a gift of being able to address our own issues. I would argue that nuking Japan was not giving them a gift of being able to rebuild their infrastructure... . and it was no gift getting in to the most damaging r/s of my life.

Anyway... how borderline was she... .

Well she was diagnosed in grad school, then did her best to get the T to lose his licensing. She was married twice, divorced twice, engaged 7 times, had 2 STD's and an abortion that I know of. She was prone to panic attacks... stalking, gaslighting, and painting me black.

When she was idealizing she was a bit phony... syrupy sweet, when clinging there was a touch of truth to it, but hating... . WOW... could she hate. Ever fiber of her being was angry... never seen anyone else able to get 100% mad like that. When mad, I have no doubt she could kill someone, none at all. The descriptions of Jodi Arias, match her... behavior wise... . so I would say my pwBPD... . was very BPD.

I nearly overlooked my mother being BPD... as she is waif type... and far less explosive ... . but infuriating nonetheless.

[Murbay]

You put it very nicely that we are given a gift of being able to address our own issues. I would argue that nuking Japan was not giving them a gift of being able to rebuild their infrastructure... . and it was no gift getting in to the most damaging r/s of my life.

That is very true charred  , however the main difference in your analogy is that Japan never asked for a major disaster and it was innocent people who suffered as a result.

In terms of our BPD relationships, I know we never asked for a major disaster either and we were just seeking peace and happiness but the ugly truth is we weren't entirely innocent and we played our part in the relationship too. Whether it was consciously or subconsciously, the moment we allowed our boundaries to be crossed or simply chose to ignore the red flags we had a part to play in the destruction. If we were 100% healthy in ourselves and had strong boundaries, we would have put our own values first and walked. The fact we didn't highlights a part of us that we have the ability to change.

For us, it doesn't necessarily mean something is "wrong" with us. For some, it may be our own core values or how we were raised by our FOO. It could even stem from a traumatic experience later in life. I came out of an abusive marriage with a pwBPD/NPD and then walked into a relationship with someone who knew they were BPD and didn't hide it. For me, it was a combination of rescuer, co-dependency and ego. Part of it was because I felt I failed my exBPDw and that had I known sooner, I could have maybe done something about it. The other part for me is that I only tend to see the good qualities in people and overlook everything else. I was always brought up believing that everybody is good, they are just sometimes misguided or do bad things.

My T once described me as the type of person who would walk into a sick tigers cage and either try to help it or give it a hug. I forget that it is a killing machine and just empathise with it's pain. The worst part being that even though I get mauled, I would walk to the next cage and repeat the process again. Had it not been for my experiences with my exBPDw and with exBPDgf I wouldn't have faced up to the fact that something has to change. ExBPDw showed me my core issues whilst exBPDgf, even though very different and that I held firm on my boundaries for the most part, showed me the outcome is almost always the same and that it is now time for me to heal fully.

[fromheeltoheal]

I was always brought up believing that everybody is good, they are just sometimes misguided or do bad things.

Well put Murbay, me too.  That's exactly how I went into my relationship with my ex, had no clue what I was in for, and I like to say my naivety died as a result.  For me it's about focusing on me, boundaries, and paying attention to what I'm getting in return; plenty of folks don't make the cut when looked at through that lens, all new for me.  Healing is necessary, and that involves the past, and it's just as important for me to not make the same mistakes moving forward.  Thanks for your post!