She can't be left alone

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Me and my wife has been a couple for 20 years now and I've been thinking recently about our ups and downs. I was thinking a period of time when I was relatively happy. During that particular period we had different working hours so we met just an hour or two and then a bit more on the weekends. I did my own meals and had room for excersise and to do pursue some projects on my own. I know she wasn't too happy about this, because she complained a lot about not having a "connection" with me.

We didn't have children at that time, and of course that changed a lot. And my wife's mental condition got worse and that changed things too. Now my wife has become rather "clingy" and is very hesitant to spend time apart from me or our daughter. I think that none of us benefits from this. We've even talked to a therapist about it, that time apart is a good thing.

It becomes very tiresome to "fight" for time alone. When I want time alone, she becomes worried and anxious, which means she becomes unable to take care of my daughter. Which in turns makes "time alone" totally pointless at that particular time.

My wife would definately benefit from time alone. She gets very stressed out from being around me and our daughter, but she can't seem to step aside. Basically, she's not very good company most of the time. She's just mean and controlling from all the stress of having to be around other people. And I spend 95% of my time being just sitting around, because I can't leave her alone with the girl.

When I bring the whole issue up she gets uptight, defensive and says that "We're a family" and that things are supposed to be that way.

This is not working for me because the whole sitaution eats me up I get stressed out. I feel controlled. I have to be around her all the time and when her anxiety in full swing she tends to boss me around, which creates unnecesary tension. 

She recognizes me need for space and tries to find a way to give me space and yet keeping me  on a leash. This drives me crazy. She comes up with "offers" like "Do you want to go jogging now?", " If you want do something on your own, you can do it now". Things that only highlights what an excuse for a life I have and how much in control she has become.  I explained this once (in nicer words), which made me the meaneast person on earth.

Has anyone else had the problem of BPD partner not being able to be alone, and have someone succesfully set a boundary in this area? I feel sort of used because she seems to think that she's entitled to be with me 24/7 because we're a couple and sometimes I feel I have become the babysitter of the whole family.

[hergestridge]

Me and my wife has been a couple for 20 years now and I've been thinking recently about our ups and downs. I was thinking a period of time when I was relatively happy. During that particular period we had different working hours so we met just an hour or two and then a bit more on the weekends. I did my own meals and had room for excersise and to do pursue some projects on my own. I know she wasn't too happy about this, because she complained a lot about not having a "connection" with me.

We didn't have children at that time, and of course that changed a lot. And my wife's mental condition got worse and that changed things too. Now my wife has become rather "clingy" and is very hesitant to spend time apart from me or our daughter. I think that none of us benefits from this. We've even talked to a therapist about it, that time apart is a good thing.

It becomes very tiresome to "fight" for time alone. When I want time alone, she becomes worried and anxious, which means she becomes unable to take care of my daughter. Which in turns makes "time alone" totally pointless at that particular time.

My wife would definately benefit from time alone. She gets very stressed out from being around me and our daughter, but she can't seem to step aside. Basically, she's not very good company most of the time. She's just mean and controlling from all the stress of having to be around other people. And I spend 95% of my time being just sitting around, because I can't leave her alone with the girl.

When I bring the whole issue up she gets uptight, defensive and says that "We're a family" and that things are supposed to be that way.

This is not working for me because the whole sitaution eats me up I get stressed out. I feel controlled. I have to be around her all the time and when her anxiety in full swing she tends to boss me around, which creates unnecesary tension. 

She recognizes me need for space and tries to find a way to give me space and yet keeping me  on a leash. This drives me crazy. She comes up with "offers" like "Do you want to go jogging now?", " If you want do something on your own, you can do it now". Things that only highlights what an excuse for a life I have and how much in control she has become.  I explained this once (in nicer words), which made me the meaneast person on earth.

Has anyone else had the problem of BPD partner not being able to be alone, and have someone succesfully set a boundary in this area? I feel sort of used because she seems to think that she's entitled to be with me 24/7 because we're a couple and sometimes I feel I have become the babysitter of the whole family.

[waverider]

Sorry to hear this, but you will find it common with members. I had to pull some very hard tough love to break this "neediness" cycle but I have got there. It is doable.

I am sure members will have some good tips on how to break this cycle, and generally taking back charge of your own life.

You gave her this control, she wouldn't have it without your gift of it. So ultimately it is in your control to hand it over or not. You just need to relearn the ability to control your life.

[hergestridge]

Thanks for your reply Waverider. I look forward to input from other experienced members!

I sure got my into this myself. What I need is a way to  regain some sort of control without alienating my wife altogether. How on earth do I regain control without splitting up at this point?

I have been reading other threads about couples conunceling and we've been having some of it ourselves, which has left me very disillusioned about the potential of compromise in our relationship. The "Happy times" I refered to in my first post were due to an external factor - a job that left my wife (physically) unable to interfere with my doings during the afternoons and evenings. Once my wife is able to it seems she can't help herself from changing her mind, re-negotating things already decided, throwing tantrums, demonstrating her displeasure and making basically impossible for me to do anything on my own. This is her modus operandi. Sitting down, deciding things and planning sounds like a great plan, but after that she does all that other stuff which means all the decision-making was a waste of time to begin with.

I can't leave her alone with our daughter and do something on my own when she's in a vile mood (and she's in a vile mood just because I leave her along). Or daughter is paying the price.

[empathic]

Yes, I have struggled with this over the years also, and still do. The lack of independence, her need to be in control of everything. I am a person in need of a lot of alone time. I have restructured my work to be able to have a day a week where I am free to do my own stuff, is that something you could look into?

The feeling of being stuck is horrible. I still recall one incident after our first kid was born. On a Saturday morning I had been to home depot for maybe an hour to get some stuff we needed. Later in the afternoon I changed to go for a quick run, but got "Where do you think you're going? You've been out once today already". Somehow that episode speaks very much of how she thinks about this. Sadly enough I stayed at home that evening, today I don't think I would have done that.

At the start of our r/s I had hoped for both of us to be independent, and at first so it seemed. But I guess that was mirroring at work.

I can say that when the kids get older it gets easier to do things separately IMO. But then again, other things have happened along the road and our r/s is in a worse place right now.

[maxsterling]

Oh boy, I can relate. I am 38, have been single for most of my adult life, and have never lived with anyone since I lived with my brother during college.  And now, I invited my girlfriend to move in, thinking she was also an independent minded person and would want a place of her own once she got established in town.   

Boy, was I wrong.  She can't live without me.  I have the same issues as you.  If I go to the store without her, she is upset.   If go to work, she is lonely.  If I want to go for a long bike ride, I am not doing something that includes her.  I work all day, she sits at home.  And when I get home, all she wants to do is cling onto me.  And the weekends?  If I have something else I need to do, I can't get it done.  It's always "what are we going to do tomorrow?"  And when I say "I need to fix the roof".  She will say sadly, "Oh, I thought we would spend the day together, I'm so bored and lonely."  I can't image the hell if we had a kid. 

It was easier and much more workable when she had a job.  And I think the relationship was healthier and more exciting then, too.  And I think it still would have been a good idea for us to live apart.  But she came back to the USA from international and I offered her a place to live temporarily.  I don't think she ever had intentions on leaving.   Frankly, I don't know how she managed to live alone all those years.  She can barely feed herself now.  I wonder if broke up with her, would she find her way?  I seriously doubt it. 

For someone like me who has plenty of hobbies and interests and used to alone time, this is killing me.  Ideally, I would like to set up a schedule where certain evenings or days I do certain things, let her know what I will be doing, and when I will be home.  And let her know what days she is responsible for what meals.  And I would like to see her involved in her own activities out of the house a few nights a week.  She has opportunity, but if I am home, she won't go.  Right now, she started DBT group therapy on Wednesday nights, and I can't believe how much those few hours alone help me rejuvenate.   Sometimes I go to bed after her, and take an hour just to watch TV.  It helps.

What is preventing me from trying to work in time for myself is that I truly believe she is suicidal.  Not just threatening suicide, but even in her own words, she is pretty messed up right now.  When I come home from work, she cries for an hour.  She talks about going back into the hospital, getting radical electroshock therapy, or hurting herself. I'm trying to ease her into help right now.  My gut is telling me this is a person that probably needs to be in some kind of intensive therapy - maybe inpatient, but at least 5 days a week - for months, if not years, or the rest of her life.  I've never seen anyone so down.  For awhile I was thinking that if we broke up, she would find her way, or find another guy.  But now I am 90% sure she would either attempt suicide or go back to drugs, ultimately living out her years in some kind of care facility.  And I am about the most optimistic person you could ever meet, and if I am starting to feel this hopeless for her, that's very serious. 

Sorry to hijack this thread - I really feel for you here.  All I can suggest is to try and communicate with her what you want to do, and in a way that lets her know you aren't abandoning her.  My girlfriend seems to do better when there is a set schedule with times.  It will never be total freedom to do what you want, but even a few hours on the weekend may be enough to keep you from imploding for now. 

[hergestridge]

Maxsterling, that sounds like the situation has got really out of hand for you. My wife was hospitalized a few daus a while ago. I was worried but in a way it was a great relief that she was somewhere safe and taken care of. I haven't had such a good nights sleep in years to be honest.

You say that you have been single for a long time so I guess your relationship with rather new compare to mine. I met my now wife when she was 16. Her "neediness" was at its worst in the beginning of our relationship and I actually worked at putting up boundaries. I think we all have to in our relationship, and I didn't think it necerserily had anything to do with mental illness. What led me to finallly suspect BPD/borderline was the fact that none of the boundaries I have set up have never lasted. The clinging was gone under control for years, but then all of a sudden it was back again. We decided on arrangements concering our economy and household work that we both were happy with, but then she wakes up one day and decide it's all unfair and she's been tricked into something she never wanted.

In short, expecing growth, maturity of development in any sort of linear fashion with a BPD person is a mistake I think. Commitment in lip service. She says she sees your needs and will give you space, but then the feelings take over... . and then reality changes.

It even seems going back to "clingy" and "tight" in the relationship seems to be the reward she gets for becoming worse and for dysregulating. I'm afraid that's how it works, and that's just ___ed up. That circle has to stop.

And then you mention schedules. I guess in your situation you would be the person insisting on having a schedule, taking the initiative, with the goal to bring you some time on your own.

If I was to make a schedule my wife would say "Oh! Great, let's do that!", and immediately take the role of chairman of the schedule committee. She would then ask me how much time I need on my own and how much we should to spend together. Then the negotiation would begin. She's not helpless in any way. As I said earlier, she bosses me and everyone else around. That attitude includes absolutely no reciprocity - it's a negotiation, a fight. I can't establish the life I want there.

Just like you, Maxsterling, I have lots of hobbies and projects, and my wife has very little. But once we start discussing that I need more time for my hobbies (actually semi-professional artistic activities) she draws the "fair" card and stuffs the proposed schedule full of great hobbies she just realized she would like to try.

What I find works best is just telling her that I need to go away for the night to do this-or-that without having a discussion about it. That works.

But doing something at home (I built a home studio that I barely use) on my own just because I feel like seems to trigger her. She can't seem to stop herself from bothering me (it sounds awful, but it's true!).

As a matter of fact, life would be easier in this aspect if I was a single parent. I could have my parents to babysit, or do my art stuff or excersize with the kid. Now I have to co-parent with someone who so unbalanced that all her playing with the kid needs supervision.

BTW Maxsterling, I recognize the "staying up late" syndrome. That's right now for me. I need one or two hours to myself after she's gone to bed. It's always like that in the "clingy" phases. I start to lose sleep and that's not good for me.

[waverider]

BTW Maxsterling, I recognize the "staying up late" syndrome. That's right now for me. I need one or two hours to myself after she's gone to bed. It's always like that in the "clingy" phases. I start to lose sleep and that's not good for me.

This I will totally agree with. I would stay up late into the early hours and watch downloaded movies with a bottle of wine... It was becoming a problem as i was drinking too much and loosing too much sleep. I was becoming dysfunctional. It was my wake up call to consciously do something about it.

These are great thoughtful posts, breaking these patterns does take great resolve.

The point raised about advances becoming "unlearned" again putting you back to square one is good also. Leaving you feeling like you are making great progress on individual issues, but ultimately getting nowhere in the big picture as they cycle back round needing to be addressed again.

It is not about the issues it is about the neediness in itself. Breaking the cycle of meeting neediness is the only way to escape from the treadmill of dealing with individual issues.

In short what is needed is a diplomatic way of saying "thats not my problem, you have to deal with it" (Learning to self soothe).  This is the "Truth" part of the SET tool (Support, Empathy, Truth). What do you believe are effective ways of prefacing this truth with using S & E?

By the way using S & E without finishing off with "your" T is a common mistake and is the basis of walking on eggshells.

Then you need the courage to weather the consequences, and there will be some.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

For me think it was an issue with trust. Somehow somewhere along she had felt that she could not trust me being away, for reasons that she came up with. Regaining trust from someone who doesn't really trust them self, is not easy. Not making any sudden plans and changes in timing, they simply can't accept it and negative thoughts come in. Timing is crucial, if they are going through a bad patch especially, being away is taken as invalidation or abandonment. Think this would be the case for anyone who is feeling vulnerable and wanting comfort from someone.