it's happening...

[Seneca]

MY uBPDh went into my bedroom (we have separate ones) while I was out and found my BPD books. The argument when better than expected, but he is on anti-depressants, which make him much more subdued. I laid out the boundaries, TRIED to validate his feelings, TRIED not to JADE (I did some, but not as much as usual), and overall it was ok. There was the same circular arguments, switching topics, projecting, false realities. Some of the highlights:

-"So you think I have  PD now? That's the level you've sunk to. Who are these news friends you'e been hanging out with, filling you head with ideas?"

- ":)o your parents know about this?"

- "Is this a marriage in name only?" (don't know why, he asked me that like 12 times... he needs to label it or something. I refused to label.)

- "I'm right here, with open arms (literally flings the arms open). You won't walk into them?"

I reiterated that he was entitled to his experience, feelings and opinions. But that I am entitled to mine, and I laid out what I would not tolerate and what he can expect from me going forward. Basically the tone of the "discussion" was very hang dog, feel sad for me, what are you talking about i never loved you? i walked to the ends of the earth for you! (ummm... .when was that? that was really hard to keep my mouth shut about. how many friggin times this man has tormented me, ignored my tears and pleas, ignored me in times of peril, trial, sorrow... .ridiculed me when i needed a friend, or a supporter. oh MAN, that was hard to let go.)

So, this is the start of his extinction burst. I suspect a very interesting few days. After I told him that I have no hope, and will not try again, and am only here for the benefit of our lovely daughters, he left. 99% chance he is out drinking. He did accuse me of having an affair. Wondered why if we were in a legal arrangement, not a meaningful relationship, why he couldn't go see some other people. ETC. OVER IT!

What I realized by reding and journaling and talking to ya'll, is that the a pwBPD is not precluded from loving another person. MY pwBPD is, likely because he has some crossover NPD. but the WORDS ("I hate you/ Wish I never met you/ Worst thing I ever did was marry you/ I don't like you/ I don't love you/ I only married you cause there was no one else/ I've never had feelings for you" he has uttered over the years, and the actions he has displayed, cause me to finally accept that he DOES not love me, cannot love me, WILL NOT be able to love me. It is one thing to stand by a sick person whom you love, who loves you back. It is another thing entirely to stand by when you know that haven't REALLY loved you a day in your life. And you are 33 years old. And you can say you have never experienced the real deep hearted love of a man. That sucks. Pretty bad.

it was hard to admit this to myself, and see that, no matter how scary it is for my future - I'm worth it. The struggle is worth it. Who knows what he'll d now... if he'll self destruct, or be willing to live as a family for the benefit of the girls, or just bag it and run away. But I spoke my truth. I owned my own feelings and future.

[Surnia]

Wow, Seneca.

This is really a crossroad. And a very difficult moment. 

I think you did it very well not to JADE and yes, I know how difficult this can be. Specially when N parts came in play.

I agree also with him and being in a extinction burst mode.

And last and perhaps the most important thing: Speaking the own truth. 

We are here for you, Seneca.

[necchi]

Seneca... .   

It is shattering to conclude that they don't love us or the way love should be, well, "love". Keep in mind that you will come to accepting it and this will become only known facts. You love/loved him in an healthy way, they can't. Sad though its nothing we can change. So this gives us time to change ourself.

I've been trough the vicious behaviors to, so many times!

[Seneca]

So he came home at ten and went to bed. When I woke this morning, there were roses in the kitchen. Great.   I can handle the crazy rages, the "I'm sorry, I hate my life" crap is harder. There was a lot of "we can go to therapy again" and "I promise I'll try harder" and "I know I haven't been a good husband, but... "

We talked a bit about borderline and what I see in him. He did the crying, this hurts so bad thing, and I validated it. And it really was hard not to comfort him, or go to him and say yes, let's try it again. I had to keep reminding myself that this is a manipulation tactic. He couldn't say he loved me, but said "he cared for me very deeply". Which I don't hear. I hear "I care for my needs very deeply". Asked for couples therapy. I told him I don't think it will help, and maybe he should pursue individual therapy.

SO he ended up saying he can't live in a marriage where there is no love and we need to start making arrangements. I affirmed what my number on choice would be - play happy family for the benefit of our girls. He said that's unacceptable. I said You make your own choices for your own life, and I cannot control that. Then he reiterated about making some decisions. And I said "okay." Gotta call the bluff. And if he ain't bluffing, I will pray hard for my children and do my bestest to give them a good life regardless.

He moped a little then went out for a walk. Probably to figure out what tricks he can pull out of his bag to rope me back in. Not going for it anymore. Proud of myself.  AND, I was able to feel sad for him today. Yay.

[ugghh]

It sounds as if you handled it very well.  I have recently made the decision to seek a divorce of my wife of 25 years.  I heard many of the same comments from her about never loving her, worst decision of her life, death sentence, blah, blah, blah.

In reading the Bill Eddy book, Splitting, I realized she is indeed not only BPD but has many NPD characteristics as well. 

Mine also bluffed and pulled out the divorce card for years. It took some very good therapy for me to give myself permission to take that power from her and chose that path for myself.  You likewise should be very proud of yourself.  Taking away the power of their bluffs is a big step toward taking back control of your life and destiny.

Well done!

[Seneca]

He followed me all over the house yesterday. Trying to talk and ask me personal questions, sprinkled in with cheating accusations. He hasn't said this many words to me in 2 months. I feel bad for him because I know there is no relief to his suffering. I wish he would seriously give counseling a shot for his own well being... .but if he goes alone, who is there to show the therapist that the reality he is presenting is skewed? How would he know I wasn't a terrible wife? I don't see how there is any way it would work for him. Regardless, i don't deserve "I care for you". After 12 YEARS, if you don't love me, you ain't ever going to. Period. I deserve love dangit! And I would rather go to bed lonely every night because no one is there, than because the person who is here has rejected my love and friendship.

Starting to think for the future now. How I'll support the girls (I am a SAHM) and what I can do to give us a good life when the time comes. It's been 16 years since I've been in a classroom... .but maybe I can find the confidence to go to school and learn some skills! 

[Seneca]

He is driving me absolutely crazy since he got home from work! First he started with the fear tactic about money. When that didn't work, he switched back to pleading and promises (which he will break), mixed in some accusations about what a terrible spouse I have been. Said he went to see our GP today and called a distant relative and that in their opinions, he does not have BPD. Um... .like they would know?

I just kept validating how bad he must feel, but stuck to my script. He tried to make physical contact several times, once blocking me in the bathroom and refusing to move. I told him i'd crawl out the dang window. Today he is swearing he loves me... .yesterday he only "cared for me"? The most productive thing that happened, was "ok! I got it. i got problems! Take my hand and help me!" To which I said,

"No! i can't fix you! I failed. I never had the power to help you, and I was foolish to try."

"This time will be different".

No honey. You said that 5 years ago. There are no more this times. 

[Surnia]

What a difficult time for you, Seneca. 

He is in extinction burst mode right now. I am a bit worried about your safety.

Stay strong, Seneca.

[Seneca]

dude is suffering bad. it is taking every fiber of my will not to comfort him and fill that empty place in him. feeling that emptiness is so brutal... . he got sent home from work. been laying in bed all day crying. begging, pleading, promising. the good news is he said he was going to get help and has the name of someone who can diagnose PDs. begged me to go with him, help in his recovery etc. what is my obligation there? i don't think it is helpful, except as a point of reference. ie. he is telling a story to the therapist, and i say that's total BS it didn't happen like that etc. other than that, isn't he just going to spend his time demonizing me and making this my fault? (AGAIN?)

he was begging for a hug. and i had a montage of all the nights i lay in bed, desperate for him to comfort me, love me, be a husband and there was nothing to do but wrap my arms around myself. and i turned my back on him. it would only be a bandaid. bandaids are for kids.

he wants to know about BPD. wants me to explain it to him. when i talked about the emptiness, the nothingness inside, the big gaping hole... . he clutched his chest and dropped to his knees. he recognized something. it's interesting. he is so high funcitoning, and in such deep deep denial, i never thought i'd get to this place in him. but i am convinced this might be the only way. i have to remove all love and support from him. because if i fill the hole, or booze, or food, or some other woman does, there is no motivation to find a positive way to fill it. a way that comes from within himself.

we have been here before, so i am not optimistic. i think once a therapist starts insinuating any wrong doing in his behavior, he will rage or collapse and emotionally check out on the criticism, like always. i really don't think he'll be able to do the work. the only thing helpful i can say to him is "prove me wrong". i don't think you'll get better. and i don't want you to get better for me. but for you and our kids. you think you can do it and commit to it - good. prove me wrong.

going to make a big mug of hot chocolate, with a splash of baileys    and take a long walk in the bitter cold and wind and snow on the east coast tonight. this has been the worst year of my life. don't let the door hit ya 2013!   9

[lena7]

Good for you, Seneca. 2014 is going to be much better for you

Watch yourself and keep us updated. Happy new year!

[babyducks]

it is taking every fiber of my will not to comfort him and fill that empty place in him. feeling that emptiness is so brutal... .

Ooohh Seneca,  you will never know how much that one line helped me today.   thanks from the bottom of my toes.

[looking4myself]

Seneca,

I am so very sorry that you are going through this during the holidays. 

My uBPDh always says that this is "a marriage in name only" and that he never should've married me.  The demeaning things he says to me during his rages are unbelievable and somehow they're always my fault.

Holidays have gotten better but only because my family comes for a short time, if at all, to avoid any issues.  I have also completely disengaged--only speaking to him when we need to discuss details about the kids or work (we work together) and have maybe looked him in the eye once since October.  Since I've disengaged, he's been much calmer, helping out a tiny bit more with life than he did before and it's always "I'm sorry I ruined your life"--not quite sure what that means but it certainly doesn't feel sincere or like an apology.

I've been very depressed lately and decided that I wanted to just stay home last night, well what really struck me was the my oldest son (13) was acting like my husband for a better part of the night.  He says that he thinks I don't love him and that he hates this family and that my business is going to fail.

I'm starting to think that creating an exit strategy is best for everyone. 

I have a very good friend who grew up in a household where her mother insisted that her father stay until my friend graduated from college and she tells me that she wished he would've just left.  That everyone would've been happier and that her mother's health would've been better; her mother turned into an alcoholic and subsequently a rage-aholic when she was diagnosed with terminal cancer.

I don't feel like I'm the best mother/role-model to my kids right now and maybe ending this all will be an example to the boys not to treat someone disrespectfully and to my daughter not to allow herself to be treated disrespectfully.

It's just a matter of finding that starting point to unravel it all.

Maybe you can start a business while you look for a job?  But whatever you do, don't let him be a part of it.  Join the local Chamber of Commerce and get involved on a committee (our Chamber has a parenting and family committee which I'll be joining next week).  Or maybe attend an Al-Anon meeting in your area.

[Seneca]

Thanks all. Looking4myself, i am totally 100% on board that if the marriage is detrimental to my kids in some way (they see him treat me bad or he treats them bad) i am so friggin outta here. If it were affecting my kids... . no questions, i'm gone. I hope you are able to do that for your kids... . no matter how hard it is.

He is bound and determined to be "good husband". Wants to go to church after a two year absence, join a mens accountability group, get therapy. He is helping around the house, trying to take an interest in me, asking for hugs and hand holding. Blah blah blah. Does it make me evil that it turns my stomach? I keep,reminding myself that i am religious and believe in miracles. I just dont see how he keeps it up long term, even with help. Keeping a safe distance.

He wanted to know more about BPD, so i sat him down tonight and went through the DSM criteria with him... . the lay persons version and how those behaviors manifest themselves. Stop walking on eggshells has a few pages about this that are great and filled with examples. I showed him how, through examples, he meets every criteria. He saw it and admitted to all of it. He is in total splitting mode - i am a goddess for putting up with this for so long, he is utter trash and deserves to die. What will most likely happen is that therapy and these constant feelings of fear and emptiness will force him back into denial mode. But like i say, prove me wrong!

Meanwhile, i am going to give college or career training some serious thought in the coming weeks. And continue working on myself. This site has meant so much to me... . whenever i feel my resolve sliding, i pop in here and read some of your stories and say oh yea... . i am done with this madness! So thank you for sharing yourselves with me!

[looking4myself]

Seneca; You are an inspiration!  I'm so impressed with the way you are handling it all. 

[Seneca]

So I got in touch with an unexpected emotion last night. He is still being super clingy and remorseful, and sullen. He keeps coming to my bedroom to talk about his feelings and his fears. Wants my help picking therapists, to teach him all I learned about BPD, to support him as he gets better etc. This all sounds fabulous - a codependents dream!   

But it wasn't sitting right with me. Firstly for the obvious reason that once things get too hard he'll quit and go back to (ab)normal. But secondly, surprisingly, I am deeply pissed off about the help he is asking me for. Like I didnt effing do ENOUGH for you all these years? Protecting the kids from you, emotionally carrying the relationship, forgiving you every time you were a monster, overlooking the horrendous mistreatment/selfishness/manipulation/ paranoia/delusions/emotional abuse/sexual abuse/ psychological torture. NOW YOU WANT MY HELP? Dang it! It's so freaking unfair! Where the hell were you when I needed help/love/support?

I am, not saying I won't support his attempt to get better, but I have to draw the line somewhere. I told him today that he was a big boy and could go to his own psych appointments. That if he feels paranoid he can talk to me and ask for reassurance but he was not allowed to call me 25 times a day. I am still thinking of other boundaries to draw. I have done so much for this man. It's time to do some stuff for myself. 

[janey62]

Hi Seneca,

Stay strong and keep thinking clearly... .

Sending you a  and best wishes

Jane x

[looking4myself]

You can do it, Seneca! 

How is the weekend going so far?

[Seneca]

well, all is still well. he is still contrite and wanting to learn, anxious for his first therapy appointment. he is also taking his paranoid ideations to me so i can explain things that make him nervous. it still takes a while for his emotions to regulate, but at least he is addressing them. i feel sad for him finally - it's basically finding out you have a chronic illness. this will never go away, he will never think normally or feel normally. he can improve, he can control behaviors - but he'll always be that outsider and feel empty and frightened inside. i can move on from him, rebuild my life, be happy. he will not have the sam fate. that freakin sucks.

when they are treating you so bad, it's too hard to care about their wellbeing and future, because you are just trying to survive it. but when they are regulated and AWARE like this (trust me, I know it's rare and probably short lived), you can see the vulnerability and humanity.

we talked about the root of the disorder - the sense that you are nobody, and are afraid of being abandoned. and he admitted he doesn't and has never understood the question "who are you?" it confuses him he says, i am nothing. he can name things he does, i work here, i am a dad, i climb mountains - but cannot say who he is, and only sees his value in what he is able to contribute or achieve. it really is an eye opener to listen to it, and to explain his responses to him. he fully accepts all of it, and my boundaries. i know it'll change, so trying hard not to fall in love with this guy. 

[janey62]

Oh Seneca!  I do feel for you.  Therein lies the heart wrenching nature of loving someone who has this awful condition.

I don't think it's an accident that they are drawn to us, compassionate, sensitive, somewhat damaged souls.

I struggle with this whole idea of BPD sometimes because as well as an impossible and erratic, distressed spiteful, cruel person I also see him, his character, flaws and all. He is a person first and a victim of BPD second.  Having said that I don't think I can live with it and I have nothing but admiration for anyone who can stay as long as you have.  I'm 18 months in and already feel beaten.

You sound as though you are realistic about the chances of him miraculously changing at this point.  Perhaps you're right to just enjoy what's happening right now.  And it is possible for small gradual change to happen with willingness and support.  If you fall in love you do and you'll manage... . not that I'm encouraging you!   It's all so confusing!

Hang in there... .

Jane x

[Seneca]

Dysregulating has begun.  :'(

I am a SAHM and freelance writer. i got an opportunity to consider a full time job as a copywriter, outside the home. And though he has been on me for 4 years to contribute to the family, and hauls that out frequently during an argument or to our therapist, as soon as I mentioned it - I saw the change. I know that change, I've seen it 1000 times. It is the face and body language that says "something just frightened me, I must be angry now." He obviously struggled the rest of the night - we were having conversations with the kids, and I jumped in to finish a sentence, and he was clearly pissed but trying not to be. Went to bed w/o speaking to me etc. He knows its his problem, but he also knows he can't help it.

He did ask why I would want a job. And it just seemed so nuts (HELLO? Seneca... of course it's nuts!) because he's been nagging me, complaining about money etc, so I said, "so things are easier financially... and because you've been wanting me to for years!" WRONG ANSWER. My independence is terrifying to him. If I can provide for myself, what would I need him for - so the BPD thought process goes... .

I knew it was too good to last.   Well, I got 8 days out of that one. A bit longer than average... .

[janey62]

I doubt there would have been a right answer... .

8 days huh?  I hate that look, it's something that happens around the mouth, his lips go pale and slightly slack and he looks spoilt in that moment.  It's a small but significant change. 

I'm sorry it didn't last but you kind of knew it wouldn't.

I think it would be great for you to have this job, and some independence.  Things will change because of it and for the better I think, although your h might not agree. 

Jane

[looking4myself]

I'm so very sorry to hear this, Seneca.  Was it a full-moon yesterday?  Although my sister did hear on the news that January 6th is the most depressing day of the year (conversely, June 23rd and the 24th are the happiest).

It'll be a difficult transition and I'm sure elicit outbursts, but if you have the opportunity, perhaps move forward with the job.  At least you'll never be stuck because you can't afford another option.  And, if things do work out, we'll then you'll be that much richer

[Seneca]

oh the drama!

been lots of debate the last couple about whether I should attend therapy with the h. He hasn't been dx with BPD (he's only had 2 sessions, hello?) therefore he either thinks i am wrong and crazy, or that I should come and try to convince his therapist. I vacillate here. We did couples therapy and it was pretty much a disaster, and frankly I am kind of tired of mothering him and want him to take care of himself. I don't want to sit in a room with him and have him get antsy and nasty when I basically vomit out all the terrible details of our rs.

Anyway, a couple days ago, he asked me if I'd come today. I said I guess I would, check with the T to see if it's okay. So Monday I got the go ahead from the T to come along. Was still unsure if I was prepared to go today, would have to find a sitter... . and I guess the more i think of it, I am kind of avoiding the blaming and dysregulation that is sure to follow the appointment. So, when I woke this morning (my H goes to work very early) there was an email from him that said a lot of dumb and accusatory things, and the crux of it was "if you don't come to therapy with me today, I will have no choice but to leave you." I got a text and phone call from my BFF and my sister both saying that he had BCC'd them in on the email. I imagine for the sole purpose of shaming me... . because I can't think of how they would take his side or promote his viewpoint. I told them to ignore him. And of course knew, I could not give in to this demand. 

I simply wrote back that I was not coming today, that threatening to leave if I didn't come was emotionally manipulative, and he needs to take responsibility for his own actions. I texted him so he was not expecting me at the apt, and just said "I am not coming", and he responded "then you've made your decision." He surprised me 1/2 hr later by showing up home to "collect his important papers". He took all of our financial and investment papers in a big box, and told me "I suggest you call a lawyer". I didn't respond to that and left the house. When I returned, there was ANOTHER email that he included my sis and BFF in on that attacked me as being more or less an ungrateful homewrecker, and I can explain to my kids why i broke up our marriage etc. The trifecta - guilting, shaming, and threatening! I did not defend any of the words or actions he blamed me for, I simply said "you have to make your own decisions, I am not responsible for what YOU choose to do with YOUR life." And I also told him that I wrote a letter to the doctor.

I spent two hours writing about our story, and then giving him a rundown of the maladaptive behaviors I see in him. I suggested that I'd be happy to speak to him alone, by making my own appointment without H. I also printed out the email exchange so he could see the threats and manipulations in person. I hand delivered it this afternoon, and hope he has a chance to look it over before he sees my H this afternoon.

He only took his papers and I think his $ stash. His clothes are still here. There is a 99.9% chance this is a bluff, just like every other time. I am committed to standing my ground and deflecting the responsibility for his choices back on to him. I am prepared to let him go. I will not fight. I expect that he will come home from therapy and apologize or at least "be over it" and put his files back. or that he will in the next few days. If he is still beating this drum by Monday, I'll find an attorney, at least to chat. Friday is my birthday.   :'(

Also, next Thursday I have an apt to see the admissions director at the college I want to enroll in. So, how ya like them apples? 

[janey62]

Hmmmmm, sounds like you've been having a very rough time!  Poor you... .

It also sounds as if you didn't want to go in the first place to see T with him.  Would it have made a difference if you'd said no from the beginning?  The s**t would have still hit the fan I guess, just been a slightly different colour?  I don't think you could have handled it any other way, and you didn't argue or explain just calmly stated your case.

How are you feeling Seneca?  Are you ok?    

The way you describe him behaving sounds so much like mine that I wonder if they're not one and the same person, even down to the phraseology used. 

I went 2 weeks ago on a Friday with him to his mother's, well I drove him actually because he doesn't drive.  He was afraid to go on his own, needed to clear out some of his things as she's moving to a smaller house.  He was afraid to go because she drives him mad with her incessant prattling... . it was tense!

I was tired and feeling a bit drained and not very talkative, I was trying to detach from him a bit just to make life easier... . wrong!  When we got back we went out to eat and having drunk a pint of beer he started on me.  I was being cold and controlling all weekend, he was sick of the way I made him feel, no, he couldn't do this another way, he was feeling very pissed off with me, etc.  He walked off and left me - it was eleven days ago.  I've had the usual cycle of texts - attacking, accusing, angry, insulting, sorry, sad, guilt trip, silence, threats, sorry, sad... . you know the drill.

I decided it was time to go, go before I lose my mind.  I've got a new job which is about 35 miles away which I'm waiting to start and I decided to move nearer.  I went to look at a flat and the upshot is I'm moving in next Wednesday... . I told him about it and he's kind of quiet and a bit broken.  I feel sorry for him actually... . but not sorry enough to change my mind - I can't take this any more.

I'm so sorry for you that you are in the position you're in with your kids and H, not having the choice, or it making the choice to leave harder.  I am fortunate that we didn't marry or have kids and am truly grateful that I can just go.  It's still not easy though.  I have a lot of feelings about it and know its not going to be easy. 

I hope things settle down for you very soon and get back to normal (whatever that is).

PS.  good luck with the college thing next week... . and Happy Birthday for Friday!

Janey xxx

[Seneca]

As i suspected, he came home all chipper after therapy yesterday. Marched into my room to tell me the T would see me with or without him. I opted for without, called today to make an appt, and the T seemed not to know what i am talking about. Here we go with the confused realities again... .

I was kind of like " why would i bother visiting your T if you told me I should be hiring a lawyer?" He said nothing for 30 seconds and then just said, "do whatever you want."

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh! Why isn't there a tantrum icon up there?