The space she occupies in my life

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

The problem in short:

I don't have a lot of expectations on my wife. I expect loyalty, friendship and love. And I expect her pay her half of the bills.

She on other hand, expects me to do so many things, otherwise she will be angry. And it's been like this for 20 years now. It's like a force of nature inside of her. She's been in four different types of therapy (psychotherapy, CBT, some kind of free-form therapy and DBT), and she's turned each and every one of them into her own kind of let's-get-the-therapist-to-help-me-make-people-do-as-I-say-type-counseling.

This is why my stomach aches when I come home. At work people accept me as I am. At home I'm just a problem.

Describing the problems in detail is just destructive. An outside party would say "Ok, why don't you meet her halfway then?". But I've been doing that for 20 years and she knows how to use that. She just backs away another bit and then I have to meet her halfway... . again.

The definition of an agreement is that two people agree. That BPD definition seems to be that one person makes a demand that the other person can't find a valid agrument against it. And "I don't want to" is not a valid argument in their world. That's how I've been driven into doing so many things I don't want to do at all.

Seriously, this has to stop. When she gets home from work she gets to do whatever she wants. I don't. What's that all about? I'm sure many others are in the same situation.

[hergestridge]

The problem in short:

I don't have a lot of expectations on my wife. I expect loyalty, friendship and love. And I expect her pay her half of the bills.

She on other hand, expects me to do so many things, otherwise she will be angry. And it's been like this for 20 years now. It's like a force of nature inside of her. She's been in four different types of therapy (psychotherapy, CBT, some kind of free-form therapy and DBT), and she's turned each and every one of them into her own kind of let's-get-the-therapist-to-help-me-make-people-do-as-I-say-type-counseling.

This is why my stomach aches when I come home. At work people accept me as I am. At home I'm just a problem.

Describing the problems in detail is just destructive. An outside party would say "Ok, why don't you meet her halfway then?". But I've been doing that for 20 years and she knows how to use that. She just backs away another bit and then I have to meet her halfway... . again.

The definition of an agreement is that two people agree. That BPD definition seems to be that one person makes a demand that the other person can't find a valid agrument against it. And "I don't want to" is not a valid argument in their world. That's how I've been driven into doing so many things I don't want to do at all.

Seriously, this has to stop. When she gets home from work she gets to do whatever she wants. I don't. What's that all about? I'm sure many others are in the same situation.

[empathic]

Oh yes. I'm in _exactly_ this situation, and think about this a lot. I almost never ask her to do anything, but she asks me to do things all the time - big and small. And I don't have a big history of saying NO. Almost never actually.

This means that I can't really relax in my own home, as she can (and will) at any time disturb me. If it's not something immediate, it's about something tomorrow, or next week, or... .

I think my wife considers herself the project leader/team manager of our family, and I'm just a "worker" in that scenario. It's not a healthy situation for me at all.

I have been thinking in the past if I should start to ask her to do stuff more, but it's hard to change how one works for the long run. I also am a believer that if I see something that needs doing, I'll just do it - I won't first moan about it for a few days and then have someone else do it.

[hergestridge]

Empathic, what do you think would happen if you ask her to do things?

If I would use my wife's favorite argumentation and demand she'd do something "Because that's what normal people do" then she would be in a heap on the floor crying.

If I would ask her to do something just because I'd want her to, then she'd bargain.

Perhaps it's just time to face up to the fact that's she's bossy and controling. She can't make friends and has a hard time keeping a job because of this. She knows this herself and she doesn't do ___ about it, because she thinks she's right and everyone else is wrong.

I've come to a point where I have to look past the diagnosis and look to the behaviors to which I am subjected.

[maxsterling]

Pretty much the same thing for me, except mine doesn't work. She really doesn't do much of anything.  I don't really care if she does anything, just don't put it on me if nothing gets done (for instance, the house is messy).

"The definition of an agreement is that two people agree. That BPD definition seems to be that one person makes a demand that the other person can't find a valid agrument against it. And "I don't want to" is not a valid argument in their world. That's how I've been driven into doing so many things I don't want to do at all."

Exactly!  OR, I get the accusation that I don't love her if I don't agree. 

[empathic]

She'd probably make it look like it's oh so cumbersome for her. I avoid even asking her for a glass of water because of her reaction. Her reaction reminds me of how unnormal her behaviour is, might be why I avoid it. Easier to get it myself. Bargaining is also built into her system, so yeah she'd do that too if it was some bigger thing.

Problem is I enjoy doing things for others while she is quite the opposite so it makes for a very one-sided relationship in that aspect.

I'm also considering what's "behind the diagnosis". Is it what I really want from a relationship? Things have been calmer in the house lately so it's been possible to view the r/s from that standpoint. And I'm afraid that the answer is that I'm not happy with the r/s even BPD taken away. We have grown apart, there are differences now that are major, which were not visible in the beginning of our r/s. Had BPD not been in the picture we might have grown in the same direction instead of apart.

Do you think it's possible to take a different approach to their demands somehow?

[Perez]

Very much the same situation for me.  My wife definitely has the manager mentality, it has become more pronounced through the years.  Getting to be real obvious for the kids.  Where do you draw the line between "you need to obey your mother"  and "I know she should be doing this for herself, you should not have to go make her a coffee when she is in the kitchen doing nothing and you are doing homework"

I have enabled this way too often in the past.  Working on not being her intermediary anymore and having her being responsible for her own demands.  Then talk to her about her controlling behavior and how she is viewed by the rest of the family.  Not looking forward to that talk.  I have tried pointing this out to her using specific examples but I have always been met with deflection and projection.

[Pearl55]

The Goal: Pointless Control with No End to the Abuse

Individuals or groups who use brainwashing techniques are deliberately trying to convert followers, change political allegiance or get people to buy their brand of soda. The ultimate goal is to breakdown your identity and replace your belief system with their doctrines in order to make you an obedient follower. Once they achieve their aims, the psychological torture stops because you’ve become a faithful acolyte.

Unlike professional terrorists, cult leaders and prison camp commandants, most abusive narcissistic, borderline, histrionic and sociopathic wives and girlfriends don’t have an end goal for their brainwashing techniques. They don’t know what they want. They just know that they want to control you in order to feel in control of themselves. This is why they don’t progress past the sixth brainwashing step and complete the process through the third stage, Rebuilding the Self.

By keeping you stuck in the Possibility of Salvation stage, you become locked into perpetual hoop jumping mode. She says if you do x, y and z she’ll finally be happy. You do x, y and z and then she either has a new set of expectations, demands and requirements or tells you that you didn’t do x, y and z to her satisfaction or that you only did it to make her happy not because you wanted to do it. You’re caught in a maddening cycle of trying to please her and not being able to please her with no relief or “salvation” in sight.

Oftentimes, abusive borderline, narcissistic and histrionic women’s moods, beliefs and realities change from day to day and, in extreme cases, minute to minute. They want whatever their current mood or insecurity dictates and change their beliefs, demands and perceptions accordingly. The only doctrine they offer is, “You’re wrong and bad” and “It’s all about me, my needs and my feelings” and “you need to fight for me” or “you need to fight for this relationship” (never mind that she is the one who is destroying it). This keeps you destabilized and in a perpetual state of guilt, shame, hypervigilance and confusion.

She puts you into no-win situations, double binds and keeps raising the bar of her expectations for as long as you let her. You never get to reach the third stage of a new identity that brings some relief. She keeps you stuck in the cycle of abuse where she will psychologically torture you until there’s nothing left of you.


Dr Tara

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

By keeping you stuck in the Possibility of Salvation stage, you become locked into perpetual hoop jumping mode. She says if you do x, y and z she’ll finally be happy. You do x, y and z and then she either has a new set of expectations, demands and requirements or tells you that you didn’t do x, y and z to her satisfaction or that you only did it to make her happy not because you wanted to do it. You’re caught in a maddening cycle of trying to please her and not being able to please her with no relief or “salvation” in sight.

This was the most maddening thing before I found this site.  I can't count the times in an argument I said "How can we be arguing about this when I'm doing what we agreed to (and what she wanted).  But I'm not doing because I see the wisdom of her thinking... .

I'm still working on setting the correct boundaries, but at least I no longer doubt that it's me... .