questions for an attorney

[martillo]

I have an appt tomorrow w attorney for consultation.  Not currently divorcing, but H says he is leaving and we really need a separation (currently on staying board).  We are in a community property state w no "legal separation" status available - 4 kids at home - 2 under 18.  What questions do I need answers to?  I am at a real loss for what to do... .  

[Matt]

What is your purpose in talking to the attorney?

Maybe you will want to talk about financial issues with him.  First might be support - who makes how much, and what monthly costs do you have, and how will those bills be paid?  Will the person who makes the most money pay the other person every month?  Does the law in your state say how much, or are there some guidelines, or is it just up to you two to decide?

If the marriage ends, there is the issue of "division of assets" - all the assets and debts would need to be split up somehow.  Maybe there are guidelines for that, or maybe you don't need to worry about that now.

The biggest issue is the kids - temporary custody - working it out somehow that will be good for the kids and OK for both of you.  If the kids are close to 18 maybe you can both consult with them and take their ideas into account, without making them feel responsible for figuring it out.  If you can figure it out very clearly so everybody knows what will happen - who they will stay with when.

[martillo]

Assets-we own real estate-both our home and rental properties, have an S-corp which we have equal shares - those are our main assets - we have lots of bills and I handle all ffinances both personal and business.  We are both paid a salary by our business.  He is paid a significant amount more than me. 

It now looks like he is planning on "stayinig" so I need to get some advice on what will happen if I take kids and move out - that will be lots of expenses that I would rather not incur, but I am at a point where I need to make sure that kids have a place they feel safe in. 

Thank you Matt for the reply!  Gave me lots to think about... .

[Matt]

It may be possible to get the court to order him to leave the home.  As a man, I don't like that idea at all - my wife falsely accused me of assault and I ended up moving out - I think it's often unfair to the man to make him move just because he's a man.  But in your case, if you can document some of his behavior which isn't good for the kids, and if you can show that it's in the kids' interest to stay with you in the family home, and see their father regularly on some court-approved schedule, that might be possible.  A local attorney can tell you how this is done where you live.

Make sure you have copies of all the financial records.  Consider establishing separate checking accounts and credit cards, so he can't take all the money or run up debts that you will be responsible for.

[ForeverDad]

Don't hesitate to get multiple consultations.  "In the multitude of counselors there exists wisdom."

A question for each attorney could be, "If you were in my shoes, what would you do?  What complicated issue(s) would you try to clean up now before separation?  What should I be especially careful NOT to do?"

I added that last one because one family member accompanied the spouse and the spouse presented papers to sign before the bank manager as witness that gifted away certain marital rights.  Yes, with the shock, surprise and under the pressure of the moment in front of others, that relative weakened and signed. :'(  If you get any surprises or demands, give yourself time and space to ponder the matter and get independent advice.  Usually, doing anything under pressure ends up being something we regret.

[martillo]

Met w the attorney for consultation and got lots of questions answered.  Youngest 2 kids are DS14 and DD11.  There are no "extenuating" circumstances - no documented DWIs, hospitalizations, or physical/sexual abuse - kids will ultimately "decide" who they would stay with.  If we do separate, we could have temporary orders of separation which would protect each of us financially.

UBPDh is now in the "sick" phase of his dysregulation this weekend.  He is going tomorrow for X-rays of his knee and was crying this afternoon from his knee pain - I am sure it is painful and while he moans and groans and whines and complains in the sick phase, he doesn't usually cry - attorney did say (and I have certainly experienced many times) that "high conflict" people are surprisingly intuitive and can pick up on things so he may be really pulling out all the stops to get me into caretaker mode.  

DS21 will talk to H about counseling and stopping drinking - he is the golden child (except for the occasional black) so H listens to him and really mirrors him.  If DS21 lets H know he is willing to go to counseling - maybe H will follow suit.

Couple of things attorney recommended were for me to work on becoming the other "face" of our jointly owned company - up to this point, I have been primarily in the office and H is out and about with the daily goings on of our business.  She recommended that I make sure and attend chamber events, association events, etc. so I will begin to slowly incorporate that into my duties.  That way if something does happen to the marriage, I can easily step into a leadership role if H decides to "sabotage" things.  And make sure I stay on top of all things financial which is my role already - both in the business and family.

Matt, I know your story so thank you for providing supportive words - I don't want to take kids away from H and I don't want to leave him financially hurting or damaged - we have both worked hard for what we have.  I don't want him in jail or having a record - I do love him despite everything and would much rather work on making our family work.  However, I really, really have to evaluate the negative impact he is having on kids when in less than 6 months he has been in a serious physical altercation w both DS21 and DS18 - and those same young men tell me that I have to do something or it will be DS14 and DD11 next.  It was one thing when I took the brunt of verbal/emotional abuse and intimidation-my choice.  H deserves to be safe from harm, but my kids deserve to be safe and in a place where they don't get pushed into a "flashpoint" situation.  

ForeverDad - your questions got the ball rolling w attorney and your suggestion to avoid surprises and demands will be heeded - Thanks!

[ForeverDad]

You may find that it will be stressful to continue working together if separated or divorced, almost like living two lives, it will be hard to keep your boundaries in place and he will find ways to blur the lines between business, parenting and marriage.  So be prepared that at some point you may need to find a way to separate the business, if not totally then to the extent that communication is kept simple with responsibilities and boundaries very clear and firm.

[martillo]

Our joint business is a service company and attorney recommended that I become an equal "face" because right now, UBPDh brings all the "value" - he has the field knowledge and customer contacts - Right now, UBPDh can walk away and say the business is worth nothing w/o him.  I may not have (and will never have) his level of field knowledge, but if I spend equal (or close to) time being visible to customers then I have a better shot at 1. claiming that I bring half the value and that 2. if H leaves, the value is not gone.  In other words, if I walk away, I would get half of something w value or if he walks away, I won't be left with something value-less. 

Since H is in his early 50s and doesn't take good care of his health this could also help me in the event he becomes incapacitated because of health issues.  We recently added a couple of new salesmen and have a couple of young supervisors who are growing and learning the field (one of whom is our DS21 - yes, we are a frighteningly enmeshed family )  So either way, it is good advice and probably that alone is worth the $250 consult fee. 

I am less concerned about the assets though than the kids and if we do eventually divorce, I can't imagine us working together - maybe - but not likely - just wanted to share this "asset" info in case someone else is in a similar situation.

[casper324]

Make sure YOU are interviewing the attorney not the attorney interviewing you to see how much you have in assets.  I didn't get what they were doing until speaking with someone and then had an ahh moment.  I am in the process of divorce and we had a business together.  My lovely STBX sent out letters to all my customers and would either lie about trashing me to customers or did so, I have no idea because his reality is his own.  You didn't say how the business was listed a LLC? Partnership or Corporation?