Marital therapy?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My dBPDh has been on a rage fest the last 5 days, which included him going on FB and changing his status to single and not wearing a wedding ring.  We are separated and he told me he just wants to get divorced, everything is all my fault, if we get divorced he won't have to do recovery work (for addictions), etc. etc.  Then today he emails me that he made an appointment with the marital therapist we have seen a few times.  Should I even bother?  He is all over the place and is just looking for a way to get me to hear all of his complaints.  That or he just wants to go in to talk about getting divorced.  Either way, it doesn't sound beneficial to me.  I think I am going to say until I get an apology for his recent behavior and the marital therapist thinks it is worth my time, I am not coming.  Any thoughts?  He doesn't even like this therapist, so I think he is  just desperate to project his problems onto me.

[MissyM]

My dBPDh has been on a rage fest the last 5 days, which included him going on FB and changing his status to single and not wearing a wedding ring.  We are separated and he told me he just wants to get divorced, everything is all my fault, if we get divorced he won't have to do recovery work (for addictions), etc. etc.  Then today he emails me that he made an appointment with the marital therapist we have seen a few times.  Should I even bother?  He is all over the place and is just looking for a way to get me to hear all of his complaints.  That or he just wants to go in to talk about getting divorced.  Either way, it doesn't sound beneficial to me.  I think I am going to say until I get an apology for his recent behavior and the marital therapist thinks it is worth my time, I am not coming.  Any thoughts?  He doesn't even like this therapist, so I think he is  just desperate to project his problems onto me.

[Cloudy Days]

Asking for therapy in any form seems to be a step in the right direction. What is one session going to hurt? you either figure out his intentions are just what you thought or you see that it is an honest try to reconcile and make things better.

Me and my husband actually see the same therapist separately. It has helped me a lot.

[MissyM]

We have seen the therapist before and he basically said that he can't really help, at this point.  My husband has a therapist and so do I.  The general consensus is that my dBPDh isn't well enough to do marital work. I emailed the marital therapist and will discuss with him.  I am just worn out from him raging at me for 5 days and really don't want to be around him, at all.

[maxsterling]

Are you ready to be divorced?  It sounds like you are about done.  If you aren't done, maybe you should just sit in a session with him and see what his complaints are.  It may help bump you in one direction or another.  

Frankly, I don't think the marriage counseling will help.  And since you have individual Ts already, I really don't see where this will help him at all, or help you.  I face the same thing - I started the couples counseling because that was about the only way to get her into help.  That and she claiming the r/s stuff was a significant portion of her issues.  But it's pretty clear from the dozen or so sessions we have been in that she has a lot of work to do on herself before we can even work on r/s stuff.  Last session I explained how much it hurts me to hear her constantly talking about how much she hates herself.  I explained that it makes me feel invalidated and like I am losing my mind.  She said she now understood how much I was hurt, the T gave her suggestions - and two days later she was back to talking about how much she hates herself. One simple request from me, to not invalidate me when I tell her she is beautiful.  She can't do it.  How can I work on my relationship if I can't even tell her she is beautiful without her telling me she isn't and claim I am lying?

I suspect you will run into the same thing - you just need simple things, and he won't be able to do it.  Futile.

[MissyM]

That is one of the reasons I feel it is futile.  We made a separation agreement while we were away in therapy and he broke every agreement.  There is just no point, he doesn't follow through on what he says because if he has an impulse he just goes with it.  I just want some peace, to be left alone to heal and let him deal with his own hit.

[rj47]

I assume he broke every rule the MT laid down in the past. My BPDw openly fought with the T and accused us of colluding against her. The T openly remarked at how terrified I was to speak openly in front of her coaxing each word out of me. It was a total of four intense and stressful sessions that created incredible despair as she dissected each session afterward and shredded me. A disaster. The T called me later suggesting I needed help to cope. Who knew it was me all along that needed therapy?

[Pecator]

I had a similar experience to rj. My uBPDex and I wanted to do "couples T." We began with my T just to try it and see if we wanted to continue. That went very well. Of course I was doing most of the work (it was my T). I didn't mind that as such work has been essential to my life. I even told my ex that I felt like I was hogging the time and getting most of the benefit. My ex was great…really reaching out, almost empathetic, but even supportive during these sessions…because they were more focused on my week spots!

We tried another. This T was more even handed. She never focused on my ex too much, but she never let her off the hook. My ex is very high-functioning. She does't lose her temper too much (slapped me twice in 2.5 years), but the kids and I used to joke, "If moms chest lights up, everybody run." After two sessions with this T, during which she became so red in her face and chest I got worried for her health, she decided this T wasn't qualified enough and we need to find another.

The third T was our downfall. By his own admission, he was new to couples stuff. He certainly did not know enough not to poke the bear. He counseled based on two people ready to face the difficulties of a relationship. He was not prepared for BPD. On the second session, my ex brought up that I was emotionally manipulative. "Like how I made her feel guilty for not wanting to see me when I got out of the hospital."

I was hospitalized very day I lost my job, probably my life-long career, my immigration status, battled with an undiagnosed anxiety issue and that was the day she told me never to call her, that she was devoting her energy to a replacement.

When this part of the story came out, the T asked her to see if there wasn't a small part of her that might like to see me suffer. I don't think she liked to see me suffer, but it triggered her shame. The flaming redness consumed her. Being high-funtioning she never totally lost it. "No, what I would like from you is information on whether I should call the police, get a restraining order, change the locks or what? I need him out of my life!"

I remember the T fuddling for a response. "Well, if that is where the relationship is at…a clean break would be essential…yadha... . yadha, yadha…

I almost lost it. I said we should conclude this session. and we left.

Obviously it was time to give her some space. The night before I was going to stay with a friend, we went for a drink to talk about the session. "I have never felt such shame in my life. He made me sound like I was a whore," she told me. I thought, "are we talking about the same session? The T was very supportive. There was no moral judgment around her being with this guy."

But the emotional fortitude behind her tone was very clear. There was more to this. She ended this discussion with "I will never let anyone touch my psychology again!"

I week later she replaced me with the same guy.

Because of vacations and scheduling, I did not see my T for six weeks. On the first session back, my T suggested (qualified that after a year+ of hearing about her and the five sessions with her, she could not make a diagnosis) I might find answers by researching BPD. That is when I gratefully found you folks!

So, IMHO, I do think that "couples T" is helpful, if not essential, when BPD is on the table and the T has some skill in this area.

Still Missy, I would encourage you to try it again only if you think the T will create a safe place. A healthy place to express, to hear and be heard is always a good thing. Even in my case, it gave clarity to what was unhealthy and motivation to seek health.

Only you can decide the path to take. I wish for you the absolute best on your choice. Keep posting, we will be here!

[MissyM]

Thanks, Pecator.  I am just reeling from all of the verbal abuse the last several days.  I need some time to recover from the PTSD.  Hopefully, I will just not hear from my dBPDh for a few days.  I would love to go the 30 days NC that I know some people do, that would help me a lot.  Unfortunately, because of the kids that is tough.

[HoldingAHurricane]

I don't know if this is helpful but as you seem in two minds about how at the end you are this is my 2 cents. Sometimes I go with my husband to see his therapist, at their invitation. He has asked me to go to relationship counselling but for all the reasons expressed on these boards I declined for the foreseeable future. However, his therapist is a good one and I think does a good job in helping him. I am interested in supporting that process. So, I go along to talk about whatever the issue my husband has identified together with the view that his therapist can support him in working through the issue. So far, I have been happy with the interactions and felt that the therapist got a good handle on what's going on. He's very acknowledging to my point of view even though we all know he is there for the benefit of my husband. I find that more constructive than relationship therapy at this stage.

[MissyM]

Thanks, Holding.  His therapist doesn't want to do marital therapy because of where my husband is.  He is also an addict that is using, so the therapist doesn't want my husband to feel that the therapist is taking my side.  Since that is exactly how it would come across to a BPD addict, as I am the one in the right, I totally understand this approach.  This is my husband's 3rd therapist that specializes in addiction, in the last 3 years.  The therapists become extremely frustrated with him and then he quits going to therapy, when they start to really push him.  So it is better that I stay with my own therapists.

I emailed the marital therapist and told him what is going on.  I said for him to meet with my dBPDh alone and if the therapist feels it is worth the time, I will meet with them the next week.

[DreamFlyer99]

MissyM,

I'm just wondering how he gets to rage at you if you are separated? What could you do to maintain the distance that "separated" means? I'm recently separated from my uBPDh and I do find I feel harassed at times when he is telling me how much he is learning about himself (he is now seeing a T) and pushing me for when will I see a MC with him. I'm still just kinda healing from the latest bunch of out of control behavior. We've never separated before, and I honestly don't know where it's going, but I'm not interested in committing to MC until I've seen him become aware that I'm a person to be considered in all of this and there's more than just him and his feelings out there in the universe.

[MissyM]

Well, my dBPDh rages at me because we still have to discuss kids and finances.  He has refused to follow the separation agreement that we came up with at the treatment center  The first 30 days are to be NC, as NC as you can be with children.  This is the time to focus on ourselves and our own recovery.  The next 30 days, we were to go to the marital therapist and only talk about what we are learning about ourselves and the way we behave.  No marital problem solving during these times.  The last 30 days is supposed to be going to marital therapy to work on our problems, starting to date and spend time together but not discussing any problems on our own.  Then we would decide with the therapist if it was time for him to move home.  They said that any of these times would be extended.  We seem to be back at square one.  I have no idea what all of the therapists have said to my husband but he has backed off the verbal abuse in texts and emails.  I am sure that since I forwarded one of his emails to his therapist, he has been confronted that he is being abusive.  This is why I prefer all communication be written.