BOUNDARYS / REACTIONS

[Aussie JJ]

Hi all,

To explain I am starting to see thru the FOG and dont have a choice other than to go with co-parenting and work with her s li ely.  I am getting constant resistance and im learning how to not be manipulated.  

I have moved away from SET in written communications and I will stay with BIFF and I statements for e-mail communications.  My problem is my exBPDgf is VERY high functioning and studying clinical psyc.  I believe she knows she has BPD and actually uses DBT skills to manipulate in conversation.  The DBT skills are used by her to turn or justify her standpoint for her view not anything else.  

Now that I have gone BIFF/I statements she has tried to shutdown communications.  Wants to go back to medistion in November and not before, it g as be petrified as she has a pattern of running away.  November end of uni year = run away time.  

When you started being assertive with communications and didn't give them the power to manipulate how did yours react?

I want to know what I'm in for.  I have sent her a, "I want to let this calm down for a week and then ill reply I am concerned by the tone of your e-mail and want to let it calm down before I reply in depth."  

I know its being inconsistant but I think as soon as I send the below she will flip on me.  I know as soon as i send this she will start raging off the wall and I cant step back from this path once I start.  I want to start but NEED to know what I'm in for.  

BPDEX,

Thankyou for your prompt response last week, I have gathered my thoughts.  

I feel that it is implyed in previous corrispondance that there is no value in trying to resolve issues at present for SON that either of us feel strongly about until November or the end of the year?  

I am sadened if this is the case.  I hope that I am misinterpreting what is being conveyed, I hope there is still a desire to work to resolve issues relating to SON in a positive and constructive manner, working towards operational outcomes.  

It is my beleif without the desire to improve, it would be the equivelant to constantly undermining the principles of co-parenting.  I have this desire to improve and I beleive SON deserves this effort from both parents.  

I would appreciate to continue to work through issues one at a time in a mindful manner.  

I think taking a time out here for a bit was important and now resuming with an issue would be wise.  

I will send through an a separate e-mail to this with an issue next that needs to be addressed.  

If there is a feeling that I am incorrect with anything I have said I would hope that it is addressed appropriately.  If I am incorrect I would expect to be corrected.  

Regards,


ME

As you can see, I think this may massively trigger her.  I want to know what to expect.  Please be aware, I have NEVER set boundarys with her before consistantly and anyone who does she paints black.  She is a massive emotional abuser, uses her phsyc skills and its scary.  

[david]

The rule of thumb from others here is three to five sentences max. Don't explain your reasoning because reasoning doesn't work. State facts.

Example: I think addressing one issue at a time is best.     and then stick to it if that is what you think is best. 

My ex will send me an email about a bunch of different things. I read it and figure out what I think is important. I address that issue and say nothing about the rest. If ex sends another email she will then tell me what she thinks is important that I missed. If it is important I address it , if it isn't I usually do not reply. When I first started doing that she would send another email that I was not responding and that would be nasty. Usually that meant to me it really wasn't important and she just wanted more engagement. You really have to figure out that on your own. If I still thought it wasn't important and I felt confidant about it to the point that if I were dragged into court I could defend my postion I would again ignore it. If not I would reply briefly. The communication evolves and you both learn what is the new boundaries.

[Aussie JJ]

BPDEX,

I feel that it is implyed in previous corrispondance that there is no value in trying to resolve issues at present for SON that either of us feel strongly about until November or the end of the year?  I am sadened if this is the case.  I hope that I am misinterpreting what is being conveyed, I still have a desire to work to resolve issues relating to SON in a positive and constructive manner, working towards operational outcomes.  It is my beleif without the desire to improve, it would be the equivelant to constantly undermining the principles of co-parenting.  I beleive SON deserves this effort from both parents.    

I will send through an a separate e-mail to this with an issue next that needs to be addressed.  

Regards,


ME

Shortened, but still maybe a bit long.  Thankyou for advice.  

[livednlearned]

Now that I have gone BIFF/I statements she has tried to shutdown communications.

How has she tried to shut them down?

As you can see, I think this may massively trigger her.  I want to know what to expect.  Please be aware, I have NEVER set boundarys with her before consistantly and anyone who does she paints black.  She is a massive emotional abuser, uses her phsyc skills and its scary.  

You're probably still experiencing fear, obligation, and guilt. Small steps to set boundaries will feel like big ones the first time. After some practice, after the FOG clears even more, it gets (somewhat) easier to set boundaries. Even in your shortened note, you are trying to appease her.

I was looking at your earlier posts and read this:

I don't know if I should go for soul custody or shared but my P said that I shouldn't concentrate on that issue only what I can effect for my son and let the court assessors and other professionals that know these situations decide.  As long as I act in my s2's best interests the outcome is acceptable.  

This is terrible advice. With all due respect, this P has no idea how the court process works. If you are passive with the court assessors and other professionals, you will lose. You need a goal, a strategy, and a lawyer who listens to you. They work for you. Yes, they will tell you about likely outcomes, but you need to ask for what you think is best for your son, and then prepare for a lengthy custody battle as the court system works through your case. The alternative is that your ex alienates you from your son.

It sounds like you have read Splitting, and you have access to the Family Law board here. Part of the issue with your email to your ex is that there is no information in it. You know that your ex is not going to work with you, not consistently anyway, to resolve issues around your son. That's not how the disorder works. It's very helpful to use communication techniques like SET and BIFF, but they are only part of a bigger strategy to get the best results for you and your son. Many BPD sufferers obstruct court orders. If they cannot follow court orders, they will certainly not agree to terms written in an email by someone they have split black and can manipulate.

The longer your ex spends with your son on her terms, the harder it will be to change the status quo for access and visitation. Every month she calls the shots, you lose. Your son loses. This is not the time to try and appease her in emails.

If legal counsel is involved, you need to bring that to the table in this message. Are the issues related to schedule for SON? Or access to him? What coparenting issues are you concerned about?

When you started being assertive with communications and didn't give them the power to manipulate how did yours react?

Mine did exactly the same thing he has always done. He was difficult during the marriage, and difficult during the divorce. He was difficult when I didn't have boundaries. He was just as difficult when I did. The difference during the divorce is that more people started to see his behavior, not just me. At first, I described the behavior to lawyers, and had a little bit of documentation. Over time, I ended up with more documentation, and through the court process, N/BPDx's behavior and distorted thinking became crystal clear. The judge ruled on different things and N/BPDx raised two middle fingers every step of the way. His inability to comply with things he even consented to has the court's full attention now. It used to be that I had problems with N/BPDx. Now the court has problems with N/BPDx.

The challenge for you is similar to what many of us dealt with early in the custody process -- to see how your passivity sabotages what is best for your relationship with SON. It can be terrifying to stand up to a pwBPD when you have been passive your whole life. But that's what has to happen if you hope for good outcomes for your son.

Unless you want to create a document trail, I'm not sure what the purpose of the email (as you wrote it) is that you wish to send. It should have a statement of what you intend to do, and a cause/effect.

BPDex,

In your last email, you wrote, "xyz," suggesting that we do not resolve son's issues until November. I do not think this it is in son's best interests for us to wait that long. If we cannot resolve these issues by June 1, I will talk to my lawyer about working with your lawyer to suggest a date when we can mediate.  

AussieJJ

[david]

I used to be afraid of setting a boundary because of the repercussions on our kids. Once I realized that was not good for the kids I changed my behavior. Ex changed her bahavior in response. Sometimes the kids got yelled at, blamed for something, etc. What I realized though was the ex was not putting them in physical danger. I can't stop her emotional bs anymore than I could before. Our boys are 15 and 11 now. They too had to adjust to the changes. When they were stuck they came to me. I listened and validated. They mostly figured out what to do.

I view my ex as a business transaction. I have to deal with her because of our kids. I don't give my opinions or explain my thinking anymore. I take emotion out of my emails. All that leads to conflict of some sort. I do slip up from time to time but it is much less than before. It takes practice and focus. Most of my communication is just about pick up times or scheduling the holidays or summer. Once that is done I don't revisit. I still get rambling emails about various things. I don't reply.

" you are trying to appease her"  and that will never happen. You think very differently than she does and she thinks very differently than you do. Learn to accept that and move forward. I used to try to coparent. The problem is my definition of coparent and ex's definition were very different. I used to think we both had valid points and tried to find a middle ground even if I didn't understand her point of view. Ex wanted things exactly her way and still does. Compromise doesn't work that way. I parallel parent because that works the best for me.

When we were together ex complained I didn't help around the house. She said I had to vacuum the floors. I went along without question. We had a light colored carpet in our living room that had a middle height nap. I vacuumed it one day when she was out. I moved all the furniture and vacuumed the entire floor. Took the attachment and did the edges. It was spotless. She came home and criticized what I did because the pattern produced on the nap of the carpet was not right ? She then showed me the "right" way it should look when it is done. I vacuumed a few more times following her direction. It still was not right. Eventually she got so annoyed that she told me I didn't know how to vacuum and that I was not to vacuum again. I never questioned the insanity of that when we were together because I was in fog. Now I look back and laugh at these things. Co parenting with a mindset like that is not possible.