DH's attorney filed harsh petition (and attorney fees question)

[sanemom]

I guess enough is enough.  After the last meeting with the lawyers in chambers with the judge, our attorney feels like we have a good case now.  He just filed to (1) only grant BPD mom supervised access to children; (2) get a psych eval done on BPD mom (we only have an email from her when she said a counselor diagnosed her with BPD); and (3) reinstate the child support.  He is also asking for attorney's fees (which the judge has threatened to grant him from BPD mom previously). 

He filed it yesterday; so far either BPD mom has been able to contain herself OR she hasn't been told about the filing.  The actual court date is next week, and I am sure things are about to get worse before they get better (unless her counsel is not paying attention--possible if she isn't paying, I guess).

My main question is about attorney fees.  I mean, even if the judge says that BPD mom has to pay $10,000 to our attorney, I am sure that would not happen.  We would still be paying our attorney, right?  Or does the attorney deduct that from what we owe?  It doesn't seem to be in an attorney's interest to ask for fees if the other party is a deadbeat and never pays bills, does it?

[ForeverDad]

Partly this may be the spitball strategy, include enough items in the motion so that even if one thing doesn't happen it's still good.  Despite how stern the judge was, judges typically don't like to grant everything.  I guess we'll find out next week... .

[Nope]

The way attorneys fees work is that you pay your lawyer and then the guilty party pays you back. So either way the lawyer gets paid. If the guilty party is a deadbeat then the only one who loses out is you. So lawyers are just fine with asking for fees for you.

As for getting awarded fees; in my case she was found in contempt on appeal. But he judge decided to only find her responsible for fees within the norms of the area the court is located in. So in short, we spent thousands of dollars for preparation,  the hearing, and the appeal. The judge awarded us $500 plus filing fees of about $165. The order also laid out that this was to be paid in $25 a month increments until paid off.

We haven't seen a penny and that was over a year ago.

[livednlearned]

I've been awarded attorney's fees for the last four hearings. In my court, they are called sanctions.

Your attorney will ask for sanctions, if the judge agrees you should be awarded sanctions, then your attorney will draw up on affadavit declaring what fees will be covered. It will not cover all fees. For example, calls between you and your attorney aren't covered, etc. Then bio mom will be given a period of time to pay. She won't pay. So you will have to file a motion for contempt. First you have to serve her, then you have to file an order to show cause. Then the court will set a hearing date. Both of you will have to show. You'll be paying a lawyer for all of this, of course.

If she is found in contempt, then the court will give her options (for the first offense, usually). She might have 24 hours to go get the money. Or she might be given a time extension. Or if the judge wanted to, he could put her in jail. My judge threatened that with N/BPDx, but it was his third strike. He chose to write a check instead of go to jail. My lawyer took the check and held it in trust. Since I needed to hire her to get the money, it all went to her. I never saw a penny, but it did pay down some of the legal debt that grows like weeds.

Unfortunately, what will probably happen is that you'll have to decide if it's worth it to collect the fees. She is likely going to give the court the middle finger right up until she is threatened with something serious. That's going to cost you money. I don't know if your judge would threaten jail -- N/BPDx doesn't have much in the way of custody and no other kids. In family court, they don't like to toss parents in jail.

But if a judge is fed up enough, he might.

[sanemom]

That makes sense about the attorney's fees.  I am sure that we will not see a dime of any if they are granted--it would be more symbolic. 

Although the attorney filed the petition on Monday, it does not appear that BPD mom knows about it.  She is being too contained for her to know, KWIM?  I wonder if only the lawyer got a copy or what.  Do  you think it is possible the new lawyer hasn't told her?  The GAL is aware she flips out…maybe he let the new lawyer know.

[sanemom]

Well, all he]] is breaking loose in the next 24 hours.  I am not really anxious at this point, except I am worried for DSD17 as some things are going to be revealed to her that I am not sure she is ready to hear, but she is being told them by the therapist because they are being brought out in court tomorrow, and the therapist does not want her to be surprised.

Our attorney is firing all the ammo we have kept under wraps for years to see if we can get some strong intervention and help for the  kids.  If it doesn't work, I will feel like we have done everything at this point, and the system failed the kids--not us.  The GAL has continually blocked our access to the court, and the court is really our only hope as the GAL is BPD mom's biggest ally.  If the court fails us, too, then it's on the court.  From what I can tell at this point, the judge has no doubt we have a lot of PA going on... . he is just concerned that he may not be able to fix it.  What really irks me is it wouldn't have gotten this bad if the GAL had done the right thing in the first place instead of blocking the reunification counseling for 18 months. 

Please keep us (and mainly the kids) in your thoughts today. 

[Waddams]

Good luck to you.  Hopefully she take things as well as can happen.  And maybe the judge will boot the GAL off the case. 

Take it easy.

[GaGrl]

All positive energy being sent your way... .

(This step-mother position is tough, isn't it?)

[ForeverDad]

The clock is ticking for DSD17, need to get that reunification started soon before she's 18 and can refuse to participate.  By that I mean let's hope the court makes an immediate order for that therapy to begin even if the overall decision takes a few weeks to get written and issued.  (My last case took 10 weeks after testimony to get a decision issued and two more weeks to wait in case there were objections to the decision.)

It's good that finally all the cards are getting laid out before the court.  The outcome will strengthen your parenting of the two younger boys too.  She will soon age out of the system but the boys will benefit from what comes out of court.

[sanemom]

Yeah... . the judge already ordered the reunification therapy in September last year, but both BPD mom and the GAL have been blocking it so much that they got less than 5 sessions in.  She doesn't care what the order says bc if she has possession of DSD, she will block the counseling.  We are asking to revert to decree where dh has primary... . hope judge does that.

[sanemom]

Yeah... . the judge already ordered the reunification therapy in September last year, but both BPD mom and the GAL have been blocking it so much that they got less than 5 sessions in.  She doesn't care what the order says bc if she has possession of DSD, she will block the counseling.  We are asking to revert to decree where dh has primary... . hope judge does that.

[sanemom]

The judge refused to hear the case…or he threatened that if he heard it, no one would like what he decided, and he said he couldn't tell a 17 year old what to do.  SOO…he basically forced them to settle.

BPD mom gets to keep DSD so she can continue to alienate her from her dad.

Weekly useless relationship therapy (for DH and DSD) will continue with a new therapist because BPD mom didn't like old one (and DSD lied and said she didn't either when she clearly did)

DH keeps the boys as primary.

Apparently, BPD mom was telling the boys that she would get 50/50 with them.  Our lawyer said that would be a deal breaker, and had to fight the GAL and her lawyer on that one.

BPD mom also has to pay the 9 years of back child support she owes…I suspect that is why she wanted the 50/50 of the boys.

At first I thought that BPD mom would think she won since she got to keep DSD, but she started stirring up stuff tonight so I guess she doesn't feel like she won after all.

When I heard about a couple of lies from DSD17, I think that just sealed the deal for me.  I know she is being pressured by BPD mom, but I am done emotionally with her right now.  We fought to protect her and get her help; she doesn't want to get help and get out of her denial.  So she can stay there and be screwed up.  We have used enough time and resources on this--time for us to move on and live a good life.

I will say that I will be limiting contact with DSD17 and my DD4 because I don't want DSD to be telling lies about her dad to DD4.  I don't trust her…she is becoming more and more like BPD mom the more she lives with her, and now that we are not in court, I am going to call her on it.  We haven't had free flow of communication in a year because things I say kept getting twisted and lied about--now I no longer have to worry. 

[Nope]

I know exactly how frustrating it can be when a child lies to protect an alienating parent. My SD11 lied to the GAL constantly about everything under the sun to protect her abusive, neglecting, alienating BPD mom. And frankly it's enraging since, like your situation,  the older child's lies stand a chance of having a lasting negative impact on decisions made for the younger child.

I'm not surprised that the BPD mother didn't feel like she won. What did she win that she didn't already have before that? The only thing that appears to have changed is that now she's in the hole for a bunch of child support. Plus she has to pay her L as well. I don't know what state you are in but the one I deal with yanks licenses, tarnishes credit, garnishes wages, and eventually will throw an offender in jail over unpaid CS.

As for SD17, do you really believe she may have BPD or is she just behaving in a learned way from being raised by her mom? Because if this is just learned or if she's just acting like a petulant teenager (behavior that can easily be mistaken for BPD) then maybe you can keep that door to your family and your heart open just a crack? She can't stay an enmeshed child forever.

[livednlearned]

Does this mean that SD17 didn't find out the lies her mom told her about the false sexual abuse allegations?

[sanemom]

The therapy session only had time for the groundwork for the false allegation, and now that the FT is off the case, I am not sure what will happen with it.  The FT and DH let her know that for the past 18 months reunification therapy between DH and her had been blocked by multiple people.  DSD's IMMEDIATE response was, "Are you saying my mom is a bad person?"  That is how defensive she gets.  The next stage would have been it had been blocked because they thought DH was dangerous to DSD, but they had to let DSD process through that first.

I can't tell if BPD is just learning from her environment or what--it is possible.  I am hoping to have a door crack open to her at some point.  I am just not there right now with all of the lies and deception she has done.  I think when she finds out that the FT was dismissed because of what she said, she is going to feel TERRIBLE because she DID genuinely like the FT.

[livednlearned]

DSD's IMMEDIATE response was, "Are you saying my mom is a bad person?"  That is how defensive she gets. 

Don't you wonder what would happen if you answered, "I don't know if she is a bad person, but I do think it is bad that she would say that to a child."

I am struggling with this myself. I talked to my own T last night about a similar outburst from S12. I made a mild comment that S12's father did not do anything with us outside the home. S12 got defensive and said, "I don't want to hear you say anything bad about my father."

My T said that he got defensive because he is afraid to look at his own thoughts and feelings about the exact same thing. The defensiveness helps him avoid feeling the painful feelings he has tucked away.

I ended up getting upset myself, and talked about how it wasn't right that we never talked about the night his dad had a psychotic episode, and that I could not forget it, and didn't think it was good that we never discussed it.

But like a lot of people here, I believed that saying these things directly to S12, I was harming him. My T does not think that's the case. I'm still trying to process this. She thinks if I focus on how S12 processes his feelings, it is different than disparaging his dad, but in my experience, it is a very fine line.

I don't know. This stuff is so hard. Your case is really difficult, because there is so much brainwashing. I hope your SD eventually figures it out.

[ForeverDad]

…or he threatened that if he heard it, no one would like what he decided

This is not the first time that phrase has been mentioned here by others.  And seems to me no one liked what was settled either.

This reminds me of my own divorce case.  I settled because my lawyer said it could go either way even though the custody evaluation report was favorable.  I didn't like the idea of the chaos not seeing the light of day - and documentation.  In my last case the magistrate stated she nothing before the last order would be considered.  So the case only covered 2.5 years of disparagement and other obstructions.  And this was the only order in all these years which documented it, settlements only mention the outcomes, not how the two parties got there or why.

The ex hasn't paid up in all these years, I have my doubts she'll do it now.

Once DSD is 18, if not sooner, I expect mother will shift her attention to the boys.  She'll think that if it worked once, it will work again.  Be aware. :'(

[sanemom]

No one liked what was settled either.  Fortunately, her free lawyer is gone (she had to pay for a new one for the last hearing), and she is one who doesn't hold jobs well, so I don't think she will file again, and IF she files, by the time she is even allowed to file, the child she influences most will be beginning his senior year in high school.  I am sure she will try to alienate again though.  Now that there is an order signed, we will be telling the kids the truth about what all happened (not disparaging--just matter of fact).

The family therapist used to be a lawyer, and she is definitely filing an ethical complaint against the GAL (she said he violated the state bar's rules on many things) and likely filing one against the judge as well.  On Friday she had already had dinner with someone on the ethics committee of the State Bar she is friends with.  We are also filing a complaint against DSD's individual therapist. 

So it is over in terms of settling for the kids' sake, but we will be holding the professionals responsible. 

They did things like reset court dates without notice, ex parte discussions to pass hearings, etc.  DH is requesting the court record on Monday, and the family therapist is sending a letter to the judge and letting him know (they used to work together, and he court appointed her to fix this case and then refused to hear from her).  The family therapist knows that the GAL and the judge are friends and suspects the GAL had another ex parte discussion with the judge before our hearing which tipped the judge in the direction he went.

The GAL has a really bad reputation in the mental health community already, and since he took on this case, it is getting far worse (there aren't many who do court cases here, and they ALL know about this case by now bc they do peer supervision meetings with each other).  He is jumping up and down to get this therapist on board to do the therapy between DH and DSD and replace the one who was doing good work (but holding him accountable).  The problem is that the therapist he wants to replace the one he kicked off is VERY good friends with the one who got kicked off and is going to tell him she already knows how he has mishandled the case and treated "the best therapist in the county" and will refuse to take the case.  Our community still has a small feel to it.  Word will get around, and I will make sure of it (and so will the family therapist).  It probably won't help our situation, but I hope it helps others in the future.

[Waddams]

Is the judge elected?  It can really get their attention if you go find who they ran against last time and give all the documentation to their political opponents for use in their next re-election campaign.

You just need to be careful because if you end up in front of them again in a case after doing some of these things, they'll remember, and it will very likely result in some harsh rulings against you.  They'll be vindictive in the future.

[sanemom]

Is the judge elected?  It can really get their attention if you go find who they ran against last time and give all the documentation to their political opponents for use in their next re-election campaign.

You just need to be careful because if you end up in front of them again in a case after doing some of these things, they'll remember, and it will very likely result in some harsh rulings against you.  They'll be vindictive in the future.

For that reason, I think we want to leave the judge alone.  The FT said she may file something on him, but I don't think we will.  He ran unopposed last time.

I would rather go after the GAL.  I was actually thinking some negative yelp or avvo reviews would be far more detrimental than a filing to the bar (although we don't mind doing both).  We won't do it until the order is signed, and he is dismissed from the case.

[ForeverDad]

 I know a settlement can't be appealed but what impact does a settlement have on filing complaints?

[Waddams]

For that reason, I think we want to leave the judge alone.  The FT said she may file something on him, but I don't think we will.  He ran unopposed last time.

There was a judge here local that had a reputation as a bad judge, and then made some horrible rulings in a divorce case.  One the attorneys was so upset she ended up running against him and unseating him in the next election.  There was a lot of press about it, and it was a pretty dirty campaign. 

I also know of two L's here locally that got disbarred after complaints.  One for 18 months, the other is on indefinite suspension.  The issue is if the GAL and the judge are friends, then if a bar complaint really results in action, the judge could be vindictive in the future on behalf of his GAL friend too. 

Sometimes, though, just sitting back and waiting and catching your breath can the best thing.