"Interesting" twist of events...

[HealingSpirit]

Hi Everyone,

There is an old Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times."  I feel like we're living this curse lately... .

I've mentioned before that my DD17 got her GED last year and is planning to move across the country to live with her BF22 the week she turns 18.  To say I have a long list of concerns about this is an understatement.  But once she's 18 (this October) there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop her from moving.  A week ago, her BF was on the phone booking her airline ticket for October.  Thank God, I was able to convince him to wait a bit.  What's the rush?

In the meantime, DD has become a nightmare to live with.  She lost her job after just 2 weeks, so she's been moping around the house and raging at me every evening.  I've been using SET and excusing myself from conversations when she starts raging. It helps a little because I'm not feeding her rage when she gets going. Mostly, I'm just trying to stay out of her way and not trigger her.  She barely does anything I ask, and she's becoming increasingly mean and disrespectful.

Part of our problem is also lack of therapy.  Our T  literally does not have time to see her or us often enough to be helpful anymore. A few months ago, our T had to take over managing the entire Psych practice where he works, AND he's doing hospital rounds for his own patients AND those of the P doc he works for because the guy had a stroke.  Meanwhile, one of the other Pdocs in the office quit.  So, our T’s schedule is booked solid over 3-months in advance. DD needs at least weekly check-ins with a T since her recent cutting incident and hospitalization, but T isn’t available for that. So she hasn’t been going.  Several months ago, DD told me she was disappointed with our T because he started having to cut short her visits.  We discussed finding a new T, but it took me a while to find some choices.

Monday, when I told DD I found a few other Ts who specialize in DBT within a reasonable drive from our home, she went off on me.  “I DON’T NEED THERAPY!  I’m fine!  You need to stay out of my business.  I’m almost an adult and I want you to treat me like one!  I’m sticking with our current T until I move, and then that’s it!  I’m not taking any more meds either.  I hate being on them and I don’t need them!  I just want to go live with my BF and get away from you!  I hate living here!”

I was crushed. I know it’s the illness talking, but I don’t know how to stop feeling sad and depressed.  This is not the way I wanted my DD to move out.  Today, I realized there was no point in putting off the inevitable.  She’s going to move whether we like it or not.  So, why wait until she’s 18?  It’s only 3 months from now.  She brings constant drama and raging into my life, she violates my rules and limits, and I don’t have the support I need from DH to enforce limits (which is part of the problem too). Let's face it, that's not likely change in just 3 months, so I sat down and talked to her about moving today.  I feel defeated.  I just can’t be her punching bag anymore.

So I said, “I love you and I want you to be happy.  I know you’re not happy here and that you’re just biding your time until you turn 18.  I have been thinking a lot about this and I agree with you that you should go start your new life as soon as possible.  No one here is going to hire you knowing you’re leaving in 3 months, and you don’t want to stay for another semester of school, so you might as well move out now and get a job there.  I just want you to be happy.”  I told her that we would buy her plane ticket and we’d give her the money we would have spent on a nice 18th birthday party. 

She transformed back to her old sweet self before my eyes…and all because I said she could have what she wanted.  (So spoiled! But I don’t care anymore.)  Since she was suddenly so calm and happy, I was able to discuss the list of conditions upon which we would be willing to buy the plane ticket.  I told her since she is still a minor, we really need to have open communication between BF's family and ours.  (To date, we've never even spoken to BF's parents, which is a HUGE concern! So at least I have a foot in the door towards talking to them.)  DD agreed to everything I suggested and even acknowledged they were good ideas.  I even set a limit that if things don’t work out between her and BF (and we all know it won’t) she can come home, but we will expect her to get a job and pay us rent.  If she moves out, then comes back home, new adult rules will apply.  She agreed to that too.  Naturally, she was excited and wanted to call BF right away.  I told her I was sorry I wasn't feeling excited with her because I felt really sad about her moving out so young and under these conditions.  I told her we had been saving and planning to send her off to college, or to live on her own AFTER she graduates and gets a good job.  It's hard for me to be excited about sending her off at 17 to move halfway across the country to live with her BF.

That’s when we had an “interesting” twist of events.  It turns out BF’s family doesn’t have room to take her in like she thought.  And BF is working very hard to pay off his debts and save money.  He still can’t afford to move out of his mom’s house yet, and he certainly can’t afford to support DD yet.  So, BF isn’t even ready to have her move there!  I was ready to let her go... .and now she’s staying.  I still feel detached, like I don’t care anymore.  But I’m hoping now that DH and I are not the reason she is “stuck here,” she will stop raging at me about it.

Now I’ll be praying for peace, tolerance and cooperation because I’m beyond my limits.  Perhaps some miracle will happen where DD and BF will mature enough to realize they aren’t good for each other in the long run.  DH and I are counting on them figuring that out someday, but we don't DARE say that to either of them.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

well I think that turned out pretty good! I see that with my dd all the time... .she makes plans and they always change. I don't even say anything until I am certain that the plan is final.

How is dd taking this setback?

[Being Mindful]

Hi Healing Spirit,

Your post really hit me and I want to share.

My DD is 21, but when she was 17 she had all the same type of plans that your DD is making. We knew that her plans were not solid and the likely of failure was quite high. Also safety was a huge concern. We knew that we had no control once she turned 18 thus we joined her in her plans... .deciding to join her to try and make it as safe as we could. It was amazing how giving her "permission" made her think more clearly and realistically. I took her to multiple apartments... .she had to do all the research and appointment making. Her case manager joined us in the plan too. We did not financially support her. We emotionally supported her and turned the problem solving to her with statements like... .What options do you have for getting to work, instead of negative based statements like... .you can't get to work from this apartment. Our goal was to help her land as safely as we could given her circumstances.  It was painful and sad for us to do this but it was the best thing we could think of and live with, instead of her just walking away.

The first time we took the above route she ended up staying with us for another 9 months. Within a month of her 18th Birthday she could no longer live with us as we were not safe. We gave her and her case manager 30 days to come up with an independent living plan, with us doing the same type of support as months earlier. It worked and she moved. It was a very rough go of it, but she is doing so well in the same apartment that she first moved to.

So I wanted to share with you that for us it did work to join her in her plans rather than fighting them.

Being Mindful

[HealingSpirit]

Thank you Jellibeans & BeingMindful,

I think she's taking the setback ok.  Not sure, as I haven't seen her yet today. At least the disappointment isn't coming from DH and me, so she should be able to tolerate it better. She tolerates disappointment & frustration slightly better when she is dealing with consequences of choices SHE made herself.

Thank you soo much for the validating support! Hearing your success story with your DD helps a lot.  I've taken a lot of criticism from others for "letting DD her have her way" but often, that is the only way to get through to her and help her calm down.  I've used this "unlocking" technique since she was little.  It was just much harder to do this time when the stakes are so high.  I like the idea that you emotionally supported your DD, even though you did not financially support her.  I'll focus on that from now on.  Obviously, that's what DD wants & needs from us.

I still don't know what the future will bring, but I have a bit more hope that she will now leave peacefully with our love & emotional support, and not just run away from us.

What a bummer that after all your love & support, you still could not live with your DD for that last month! Thank you so much for sharing your story.

[Being Mindful]

Your welcome HealingSpirit.

One other benefit of this approach is that if your DD moves and it fails, she can't blame you and you don't feel hostage to the failed attempt either. Let her learn from the natural consequences of making decisions.

Being Mindful

[madmom]

My DDdaughter moved out a couple of years ago.  We were against it at first, but truly it was the best thing that happened for us.  Not having the stress in the house was wonderful for my husband and I.  Our relationship with our daughter was better when we weren't there all the time trying to monitor and keep everything ok for her.  It was/is so hard.  She makes lots of mistakes, and we have had to work very hard to step back and let her manage and learn from those mistakes, instead of rescuing (like we thought as good parents we needed to do---I have learned from this site the difference between support and natural consequences THANK YOU)  I still worry all of the time, but I realize that I have to let the chips fall where they will.  When we let go a little, she let us help look for apartments with her, especially when we repeatedly told how much we cared for her and her safety.  Although far from perfect, things are better and my husband and I have now had the time to do some of the things we dreamed of doing as empty nesters.  Best wishes for you all, hopefully good things will come to you in time!

[HealingSpirit]

Thank you TR,

I've been looking forward to being an "empty nester" more than I care to admit. 

These aren't the circumstances under which I envisioned our DD would move out, but it is her life and her consequences.  I have to remember DD's life is one of those things I can't control. I am living the Serenity Prayer lately.

She is quite gifted and reached every developmental milestone early.  So, even though she isn't financially or practically ready to move out, she is emotionally ready... .early.   She severely lacks executive function, so the writing is on the wall for a BIG fall, but those are the natural consequences, aren't they? 

I am soo sad,  but I do feel proud of myself for the way I handled this.  The situation did not escalate.  I found this site just in time and  learned just enough so I didn't drive her away for good.  I still have a long way to go, but I have renewed hope thanks to you and everyone here.

[madmom]

I wonder if your daughter would be willing to do a little "research" about her move.  Get online and see what an apartment costs,  what job prospects there are, getting a resume ready etc.  You can support her in trying to make this move as smooth as possible if it does happen.  Maybe because this won't happen for a while, if she won't go to school, she could find temp jobs (there is an agency in my area that deals with that, and my daughter has done some things successfully through them when she was younger), or do some volunteering that would look good on a resume. (and get her out of the house a little bit too)  Anyway, good luck.  I know it is so hard to watch them make terrible mistakes, but I have learned the hard way that it is the only way my daughter seems to learn (and sometimes she makes the same mistakes over and over again and never seems to learn---oh well, such is life).  Best wishes to you!

[Rapt Reader]

I really think you dealt with that perfectly HealingSpirit! The results were really great for you and your family. I also think that the suggestions that tr gave you are really good, and a natural extension of what you've already done; she shouldn't fight you about the suggestion and if mentioned to her with the same attitude and love that you put into your earlier conversation with her, it should work.

If she's anything like my BPDson (especially at that age), she may be shocked by the information she receives and decide to back down for awhile (taking the path of least resistance) and try to make things work better in your household. It's worth a try, anyway.

It really is so hard to watch our BPD kids do things that cause self-destruction and pain for everyone around them, but it is true that they have a tendency to not learn from others' mistakes but need to make their own... .And sometimes they need to make them over and over again before they learn from them. I don't understand that at all; I've spent my whole life observing my peers (even as a little kid) and the consequences of their actions, and then avoiding the very behaviors that caused those consequences. My younger, non-BPD, son is like that too and has had a very happy, successful, fairly nontraumatic life (he's 35).

My older, BPD son (37) even knows that he needs to learn from his own mistakes, and that it sometimes has taken many times of making the exact same mistakes to learn the lesson. As astute and observant and intelligent as he is, he's got that personality type and can't explain the reasons for it. My husband, though not BPD (he does have traits; he was brought up by a BPD Mom), is more apt to have to learn from his own mistakes than I am. Watching others' troubles with certain behaviors didn't stop him from those behaviors when he was younger, either (I know; I met him when I was 17 and he was 20).

My BPD son thinks the tendency to do that is because he (and probably my husband when he was younger) has an innate sense that he is "special, different than other people, and the same rules and consequences don't apply" to him. Getting arrested for possession last February, and ending up chained to a bench in a local Sheriff's Department for a few hours before he had a ride home from a friend, is what precipitated the next day's Suicidal Ideation that got the ball rolling for his admission to that Dual Diagnosis Center's Program. Cold facts that led to his realizing he wasn't different or "special" enough to save him from consequences any more. Tragedy that led to his diagnosis, treatment and subsequent recovery-in-progress. Sometimes that's what it takes for some people 

[SeaSprite]

I've taken a lot of criticism from others for "letting DD her have her way" but often, that is the only way to get through to her and help her calm down.  I've used this "unlocking" technique since she was little.

This sounds so familiar! My girls are both so strong-headed, that the more I try to control the worse they do. And since I live in a middle class area with "good" schools, there is a lot of judgment about what parents "should" be making their kids do in the name of giving them opportunities. Good for you for doing what's right for your daughter, regardless of what anyone else thinks!

Lately my D16 is dating a 29 year old. Not something I would have let her do, except that she had already been seeing him for 3 weeks by the time it came out, and was In Love. So, I let her see him after she had him to the house to meet me. Then some relationship drama let her to cut and leave suicide notes. So the rules are tightened down a bit, her electronics (cell phone, lap top) are to stay in the common areas of the house and she can only see him at our house, and they can go walk downtown or to the park together. She doesn't like it, and I half expected him to give up on the relationship under those terms, since before it looked like she was doing all the work, driving to see him, etc. But, he does come over now and then. And it is really awkward, because what is a 29 year old doing dating a 16 year old anyway? But this seems like the best compromise, protecting her from herself. She is pretty... .clingy. She texts and calls him a lot. Her older sister is engaged, and I almost wonder if she's wanting to keep up.

She wants to move out with him, when she's 18 or sooner if possible. Neither of them have a job (he's ex army, figuring out where to go to school for his Grown Up Job) and he lives with his family, so it doesn't seem like it will be a real issue soon. I don't want her to move out until she can support herself, she is taking classes at the junior college now and wants to finish college to be a teacher. I just keep hoping he will move on to someone more age appropriate, although he's not as smart as either of them think he is so who knows. Maybe she is the more mature one of the pair, which is a REALLY scary thought.

You can imagine how uncool this whole situation makes me with other parents... .I look like the bestest mom ever! Good thing I've never been big on being part of the suburban social scene.   

[HealingSpirit]

Oh SeaWalker!

Thank you so much for sharing your story about your DD and her older BF!  You'll have nothing but support from me.  Untraditional kids need untraditional parenting.    And it IS more challenging to do what works in a middle-class community.  We live in a very conservative area as well.  So I totally hear you on that count!

I have a belief that we all tend to be attracted to people with similar maturity levels when looking for a mate.  My DH was 36 and I was 27 when we started dating and we've been married 19 years and going strong.  So, I know in the long run, age difference doesn't matter.  But, I'm sure I would have made everyone think twice if I'd started dating him when I was 16 and he was 25.  (Or 10 and 19.  Ew!)  The timing of it makes a big difference in social acceptance.

I share your pain that this isn't the "match made in Heaven" you always wanted for your DD!  It sounds like your DD is very bright, so maybe she'll meet someone she's more intellectually matched with in college.  And maybe he'll get tired of how needy she is.  Until then, we have hope, right?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[muffetbuffet]

Serenity Prayer... .that is how I live my life each day.  We too have had to go the route of joining in to support dd's ideas despite the fact that we often thought it was "not in her best interest or what we had hoped for her future".  We have also heard the comments about letting dd get away with things or always catering to her, but until someone lives in my home and deals with our situation 24/7, they have no right to judge what we are doing.  When dd asked about moving out two months ago, we were not totally in favor of the situation, but we also realized that we could no longer fight the battle.  We have continued to be there to support her and our relationship is superficially better than it has been in a long time.  At this point in dd's life, I don't believe she is capable of deep, meaningful relationships with anyone.  We have sent very little money to dd and any money that has been spent has to be accounted for.  There has to be a valid reason (gas money, deposit for a book for school, etc.).  Once she starts her job next week, funding from mom and dad will be gone and she knows that.   

[HealingSpirit]

Thank you Muffet!