Are all BPD's intentionally mean?

[tristesse]

so as most of you know my BPD is a 30 year old daughter, she lives with me and so does her 5 year old son, on top of that my nBPD son and his very pregnant girlfriend also live with me. So, as you can well imagine, my home life is total chaos.

Here is what I am concerned about, last evening my BPDd was just plain hateful and nasty mean. She has been tormenting the pregnant gf and I believe she is doing on purpose. She just says such negative mean things, and the poor girl tries to be unaffected but ends up in tears more often than not. BPDD complains and whines to get what she wants, and just pushes hot buttons. She asked me last night, almost daring me to say yes, if I felt like it was her fault that gf was upset, she said, I hope she does cry too, shes such a little bi**. I don't know why you stick up for her, that's alright though, you'll choose her over me, just like you always do.

This poor girl has never done anything to my daughter, she drives her to her appointments, takes her to the store, took her and gs to the pool the other day , cleans up after them both etc.

Last night gf was so upset it broke my heart, she said I hate to see her mis treat you, more than when she's mean to me, she has two healthy parents that love her and were there to help her grow up.  She further said, BPDd has no idea what it feels like to be a little girl who has a mother in and out of the hospital and everytime she is there you never know if this is the time she won't be coming home, she has no idea what that feels like, she had a mom and a dad that were there. she further stated that she was raised in home where respect was of the utmost importance, and it makes her so mad to see my dd dis-respect me. ( gf still has her mother, but mother is very ill, and has always been sick. so she missed out on the average childhood)

How do I approach my BPDd, she really is out of control and acts like such a little brat. Her behavior is that of a 12-14 year old, and not a nice 12- 14 year old either.

a little advice please.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lever.]

I don't think its always intentional but I think many people with BPD like to make another person "it".

i.e. SHE is a nasty little b**tch therefore I am not. Its a form of projection.

That doesn't mean it has to be tolerated if it crosses your boundaries.

If she asked me if it was her fault I think I would just say "Well, how would you feel if she did that to you?"

You could tell BPD DD that you want everyone in the house to treat each other with respect. Don't know how far it will get you but at least you will have stated it.

Sometimes the level of meanness can be extreme.

I would advise you to avoid being put in the middle as I have sometimes been. I found it made things worse and I ended up as the bad guy in everyone's eyes.

Although it is horrible to see this girl so upset I would try not to obviously take sides and to make any comments or boundaries apply to everyone.

It sounds like a very stressful situation and I know that having a GC involved completely changes the possibilities for dealing with it

[tristesse]

hi lever,

thank  you for the input. I am also not sure how helpful it will be to tell her that she must respect everybody in the house, I did that just 2 days ago and here we are again. I don't comment or pick sides usually, I try and just let them figure things out, but she is escalating in her nastiness, and I can't stand to watch her abuse the sons gf. The gf is a very sweet young lady, ultra sensitive too, she does not deserve to be treated so horribly.

you do make a good point though, when she asked me if I was blaming her, I should have asked her how she would have felt if the tables had been turned. in those situations, she usually comes back with something like , I asked you a direct question, don't answer my question with a question. It is worth a try, at least it will get her to think about it.

[lever.]

Yes, I know its not easy-just suggestions.

The difficulty is that if she continues to be so horrible to son's girlfriend the only real sanction you have is to tell her she can't live with you- and where does that leave grandson.

You are in a real bind.

My DD with BPD can bully her sister who used to get very upset but now has drawn a line and gone NC.

It was really difficult to be in the middle and feel that I wanted to support the one who was being unfairly upset.

It is now very awkward to have two daughters who refuse to communicate with each other.

I do appreciate that living in your situation day to day must feel like a nightmare. As long as they are all under the same roof though I think I would state boundaries in a generalized way rather than applying them to an individual.

In reality if you asked your daughter to leave what do you think would happen with your grandson?

Concern about my GC certainly affects the way I handle situations

[tristesse]

you are correct, I worry so much over gs already, and he lives where I can see him daily. Perhaps I need to have a family meeting and lay out the boundaries and rules very clearly for all persons living there. That way nobody is singled out.It will be obvious to those who are decent and respectful, and my BPDd will know she is  in the wrong, she is not dumb by any stretch of the imagination, but if I do not use specific situations and keep it as generalized as possible, she really can't say she is being singled out.

I often wonder why this illness has affected my family,  a why me sort of mentality. But life is hard for everybody.

[madmom]

I wonder if your dBPD is mean because she feeling uncertain about her and grandchild's roles when new baby comes.   I have noticed with my daughter, when one of her brothers has something special (weddings/graduations) then I can almost always expect some kind of crisis with my dd, even though we try really hard to make her feel extra special etc. during these times.  (Sometimes I think to the detriment of my own sons feelings)  I don't have any real advice for you.   I would be very aware of triangulation between you and gf and dd.  Maybe your son's girlfriend would benefit from reading some of the lessons and tools on this site.  I think you and she should work hard to validate and use SET.  I am praying that things will get better for all of you.

[qcarolr]

tristesse

May I ask what circumstances keep both of your kids from living on their own? In many ways it is a growth opportunity when our adult kids have to step out of the comfort zone and be on their own as much as possible. It is scary for everyone involved -- it would impact your life too.

What kinds of community support might be available to each of your kids? For food, housing, job training, parental classes, etc.?

qcr

[peaceplease]

tristesse,

I am experiencing a similar situation in that my dd is being exceptionally mean.  However, I am the one that she is mean to.  She just ignores my dh.(her step-dad) I hear that I always choose my dh over her.  This has happened frequently, lately.  She has spewed the most hateful words to me.  Also, she is jealous over my care for my mother, telling me that I don't feel bad for her when she is crying.  And, then told me that I am probably just taking care of my mother, so I can have her house when she dies.  My jaw dropped when she said that.  I guess that she wants me be hurting like she does.  I am seeing a vengeful side to here. 

My dd is going through a tough time, as she can not seem to get a job and keep it.  In the last month, she lost three jobs before actually starting them. 

She keeps saying that I chose my dh over my kids.  Says, I always take side of my dh.  She really slams my dh.  And, not too long ago, she was saying how much she appreciates what we have done for her.  And, that my dh was the only dad that she ever had.  He can be in "white mode" when things are going good for her.

Lately, she feels like everything is hopeless.  And, I have never seen this degree of meanness in her.  She said that when she no longer needs us that we will never see her.  So basically, when she is done getting what she needs then she won't bother with us.

I would guess that your dd is definitely threatened over the new baby.  It would be ideal, if your children could live on their own.  I agree with trying to stay out of the middle.  I told my dh to stay out of anything between my dd and I.  And, I will practice the same when those two are involved in something. 

I would say they are not intentionally mean.  Also, fear of abandonment is a core issue with pwBPD.  And, that is where the meanness is most likely coming from.

Also, I am wondering if you can get your dd involved with preparations for the new baby.  Making her feel needed, and perhaps gf can ask for suggestions/advice about parenting from your dd?  I know it can be challenging!   

peaceplease

[tristesse]

Wc and peace please, thank you both.

I would like to address why both adult children are in my home. Ds and gf  were in their own apartment, the building was sold and new owner was not keeping the building as apartments, so he and gf moved in with t

Dh and I, they are going to purchase this house from us, so finding a new,apartment and signing a lease made no sense.

BPDD was in an abusive relationship and was beaten by her bf, she lived an hour and a half away from me, I went to retrieve her and gs when this happened. Ds has a great job and earns a good living, he will have no trouble. Dd can barely leave the house most days, does not work and sometimes does not even get out of her pajamas.

I am the usual target, but recently she turned on gf, there was a huge blow up today. Dd is out of control, and making everybody miserable.I pray that the good Lord intervenes before somebody gets hurt.

[MammaMia]

tristesse

I am not completely certain pwBPD are intentionally cruel to others.  Emotional immaturity is a large part of BPD along with fear of abandonment, projecting, jealousy, and anger.  They say and do terribly cruel things to the people they need most.  I often wonder if they are looking for a reaction, hoping to drive us away, or testing whether or not we love them.

A lack of empathy and complete self-absorption control everything they say and do, and rarely is there any remorse. They feel entitled to spew hateful words at us, because that is how they feel... . and that is all that matters to them.  Conversely, they are ultra-sensitive to what others say and do, often misinterpreting what is actually said or done. Everything is negative to them - they are perpetual victims of their own creation.

While we can set boundaries for their behavior and learn to control our responses and reactions, I doubt that they have much conscious control unless they are forced into it.  It is almost as if they have no ability to slam on the brakes where their mouth is concerned.  They speak before they think.

Outbursts and bizarre thought processes are part of this mental disorder. We have to consider the source of the behavior and deal with it the best we can.  Is it frustrating?  Is it hurtful?  Yes.

But it is also part of a very serious mental illness.    

[lever.]

Its good to be reminded of that so clearly,Mamamia.

Tristesse-is your son's girlfriend trustworthy?

I know iI have advised you not to get in the middle of the conflict but if you had a private chat with her about your daughter's mental health issues would she respect confidentiality?

Is so it might help her take things less personally, but it is a risk because if your daughter felt you were discussing her in that way I am sure she would be extremely upset and angry.

I would say as little as possible just to help her understand.

I also wonder about feeling that she and grandson will be less important to you when the baby arrives-particularly as your son is doing well with his job etc.

I have also noticed that there is often a huge and upsetting drama around any occasion when my other DD is the centre of attention eg graduation, wedding.

If you have the family meeting that you are considering could you try the DEARMAN structure from DBT eg

There are a lot of arguments in the house recently since we have found ourselves all living together

I am finding this extremely stressful and upsetting

I want to stress that we all need to be polite and respectful to each other

So that we can all live reasonably happily until the accommodation situation is sorted out

If you have any differences of opinion could you please try to deal with them without rowing.

As Mamamia says your DD may find this almost impossible to do but everyone will understand what you are trying to say.

Also a private chat with your daughter using the listen with empathy and validation tools might help her calm down.

This is an awful lot on your shoulders. Take care

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[tristesse]

Mamamia and lever, you are both awesome and accurate.

I have talked to gf, she has been somewhat educated on BPD, and she understands that it is a mental illness talking and not my dd, but she being 9 months pregnant leaves her quite emotional, she is uncomfortable and ultra sensitive. I understand how she feels. DD has been pregnant and should know what it's like, but of course the BPD controls everything.

I know dd is very worried about gf and new baby, she said as much during her rage yesterday. She said she new gf was taking her place in my life. She was in a total immature type rage, acting much more like a 12 year old than a 30 year old. It is all very stressful, but we will get through it, we always do.

[theplotthickens]

I haven't read the other replies, but MY BPDer always has a target.  She enjoys hurting feelings and it alleviates her pain and stress.

You have a right to set rules for your household, and that includes requiring that your home is one where people are treated with dignity and respect.   I see circling wagons as a good way of setting a boundary with her by presenting a united front.  Ignoring it will teach her that there are no consequences for taking her anger out on others.  It is your house, and you set the guidelines.

[js friend]

Hi tristesse,

Definately emotional maturity and jealousy have a lot to do with in this situation.

I guess your dd is unsure of the role she will play in your affections once your other gc is born. My dds last friendship ended because her friend became pregnant and dd said some awful things to her around how she was too focused on having this baby and the girl was "not making time for her friends"(... . not making time for dd in otherwords) yet dd has a young child of her own,and is soon to have another so dd of all people should have been more understanding... . but nope!... . so she ended up loosing another friend there

If you have to all live together for now I would try the family meeting approach as suggested and going over the ground rules without singling anyone out as such. No doubt your dd will still think that you are picking on her anyway how ever the discussion goes but it is still worth a try.

Your poor ds gf must be worn out from all the arguning at a time when she is very hormonal anyway, and could do with the peace, but  has she ever tried standing up to your dd  occasionally? I dont mean aruing back but by being more assertive. Ive noticed that my dd treats family and the few friends she has better when they have stood up to her in someway in the past.My dd really takes advantage of those who let her walk all over them. Boundries also remind my dd what we will not tolerate and works like a reset button when she is reminded of them. Hvaing them in writing and displayed somewhere  also gives you a starting point with something you can refer back to, so in the future you can say something like"remember when we talked about... . x,y,z boundry as a gentle reminder instead of an all out arguement.