uBPDw and I have agreed to get divorced...

[rubyhammer]

Hello!

     I'm moving over here from the staying board.  This past week my uBPDw almost totally ignored me.  Then this weekend she exploded at me.  I told her I would not participate in being yelled at.  I walked away.  She followed me.  I went for a walk around the block.  When I came home, she told me she wants to get a divorce.  I said ok.

     We have a D9 together.  I would like to have my wife move out and find a place of her own, while D9 and I remain in the house.  I have an appointment to speak with an attorney tomorrow morning to discuss options.  I am reading Splitting by Mr. Eddy.  I have been keeping a journal for the last 6 months documenting my interactions with my D9 and my uBPDw, including her frequent usage of marijuana.

     I think it would be in D9's best interest to live mostly with me, although I also think it's very important for D9 and mom to have a good relationship.

     Anyone been in a similar situation and have any advice?

[slimmiller]

Reading 'Splitting' is a very good and proactive step on your part. Its like stocking up and preparing for war. Hopefully you will not need the info at all but just in case.

One thing I learned from going through it with my exBPD, is this. She will in all likelyhood NOT improve and make your life any easier. In all likelyhood, she will get worse. So on days she seems better, well be care full. Im not trying to scare you, just an observation from my experience and you will see that with most on this board.

Also your comment about your d9 having a good relationship with her mother, kuddos to you. Aim for that, the child needs it.

She (the BPD) will probably disregulate less with you not being present. I know that thought sucks but truth is they tend to regulate and function better when we (the nons) get away from them because we are the trigger all too often. Its not our fault but its just the nature of the illness. So she may be a better parent to the child.

Also when and if, actually not if but rather 'when' she does disregulate your d9 can see her true colors. In my case I want my kids to see their mother. Iam not trying to make my ex look bad but if I had the kids away from her permenantly, the kids could blame me for it (which would be a win for my ex) and the kids would not see what their mother is TRULY like. This way with them seeing her, they see it for what it is. They are already at the point they dont even want to see her. At my house I am a good parent and they have stability, at their moms its chaos and instability

Good luck and hang in there

[rubyhammer]

Thanks for the reply, slimmiller.

   I agree that she will not improve or make things easier.  We were at this same point last summer (a year ago) when I asked her to move out.  She agreed, but we ended up deciding to stay put.  I would say her behavior has gone downhill since then, not improved.  But our relationship over the last year has been pretty shallow, especially since I have stopped participating in any behaviors or situations that I feel are abusive or unhealthy.  She told me she feels like I ignore her. 

Right now my main goals are getting my ducks in a row for when the dysregulation comes, continuing to see my counselor regularly ( I have an appt tomorrow), and getting my D9 in to see a counselor herself.

uBPDw and I agreed to try mediation first.  Hopefully that will go well.  I'm preparing for the worst, ready to be assertive in asking for what I think is best, and hoping that all of my hard work will be unnecessary. 

[ForeverDad]

One potential ramification is if your mutual agreement to divorce triggers her to (1) out-race to a lawyer and/or make DV or child abuse allegations or (2) try to lure you back onto the roller coaster.  Or both at different times.  If she has made threats to get custody any way she can or contemplated doing so, then your risk of false allegations or being framed as the bad guy is high.

That your daughter have time with her mother - don't worry overmuch trying to be overly fair about that, the court and other professionals will find ways to default responsibilities and parenting time to the female gender.  Frankly, you need to be more concerned about yourself and your role as an involved father.  Court won't cater to you, but you'll often get the feeling that court and the other professionals are catering to mother.

Is your wife an uninvolved parent?  If not, then it's hard to imagine her being willing to move out.  If she moves out, that's great, few fathers manage that.

I can discern you're trying to be fair.  While that's nice, you risk being too fair, too nice, too cooperative and then be painted black.  There's no reciprocity when you're dealing with a pwBPD.  She will demand from you but you won't get the same from her.

I agree, it's a good idea to get your daughter into counseling now, it may be harder to accomplish later.  Make sure it's an experienced counselor, one very perceptive and not easily fooled by a Mask of Near Normalcy.

Mediation may not work so early in the divorce process.  No harm in trying, except it does delay things a bit.  Family courts almost always want to start with a temp order and then right into mediation.  Trying mediation now while also filing for divorce may actually save you some time.

Key factors... .  How entitled is your spouse?  How involved or possessive is she as a parent?  How controlling?

[mywifecrazy]

One potential ramification is if your mutual agreement to divorce triggers her to (1) out-race to a lawyer. If she has made threats to get custody any way she can or contemplated doing so, then your risk of false allegations or being framed as the bad guy is high.

That your daughter have time with her mother - don't worry overmuch trying to be overly fair about that, the court and other professionals will find ways to default responsibilities and parenting time to the female gender.  Frankly, you need to be more concerned about yourself and your role as an involved father.  Court won't cater to you, but you'll often get the feeling that court and the other professionals are catering to mother.

Is your wife an uninvolved parent?  If not, then it's hard to imagine her being willing to move out.  If she moves out, that's great, few fathers manage that.

I can discern you're trying to be fair.  While that's nice, you risk being too fair, too nice, too cooperative and then be painted black.  There's no reciprocity when you're dealing with a pwBPD.  She will demand from you but you won't get the same from her.

I agree, it's a good idea to get your daughter into counseling now, it may be harder to accomplish later.  Make sure it's an experienced counselor, one very perceptive and not easily fooled by a Mask of Near Normalcy.

Mediation may not work so early in the divorce process.  No harm in trying, except it does delay things a bit.  Family courts almost always want to start with a temp order and then right into mediation.  Trying mediation now while also filing for divorce may actually save you some time.

Key factors... .  How entitled is your spouse?  How involved or possessive is she as a parent?  How controlling?

Please please please for your sake and you child's HEED FOREVERDADS ADVICE!

I was shocked when I uncovered my uBPDxw's cell records and found out that she was still in her affair and had already contacted a lawyer when we were in counseling trying to save the marriage. Well I was trying to save the marriage while she was lying and manipulating behind the scenes.

And yes don't spend anymore time worrying about your wife. You need to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Your daughter needs you. Whatever you do DO NOT LEAVE THAT HOUSE! Let her leave. If your wife is BPD she WILL play on your sympathies. They are EXPERTS at it. Meanwhile behind the scenes she may be trying to stick it to you. ForeverDAD is right the courts favor the woman, no need to make it even easier on her!

I don't mean to scare you but once a settlement is made it can not be changed and the custody settlement can only be changed if you both agree to something or it goes back to court. You need to get the best settlement for you and your daughter. If your wife is true BPD your daughter is going to need to maximize her time with the stable parent... .YOU!

Don't be scared, it will be stressful going through a divorce proceeding. Try to keep a cool head. DO NOT TIP YOUR WIFE OFF TO ANYTHING YOU PLAN ON DOING keep it between you and your lawyer.  Make all your decisions based on LOGIC not EMOTIONS!

Hang in there and good luck

[livednlearned]

It's a good idea to interview a couple of lawyers, not just one. Pay the consultation fee a few times to get a feel for different lawyers -- this is going to be a really important person in your life. Each time you go, you'll learn a lot and will see how different lawyers approach things.

It's also a good idea to go into the meeting with a list of questions. Take notes! Or bring someone with you who will take notes. Divorce is emotional and it's easy to forget what was said, or to focus too much on your needs and experiences. You'll sit there talking about your wife, looking for someone to take your side, see things your way. What is best is to detach as much as possible for this meeting. State the facts, what you want, what your goals are, and then let the lawyer work for you and answer your questions to your satisfaction.

Before you meet with him, take a few minutes (if you haven't already) to figure out how things work where you live. If you know how the process works (every state is different), then you can ask pointed questions about strategy. A lot of us have goals (you want her to move out and D9 to stay), but we don't focus on the L's strategy. There are many different approaches, and you need to be a co-pilot in the decision-making.

A lot of people here tend to be passive types, and then we take those habits with us into the lawyer's office. Your lawyer works for you, so the more you understand about how things work, the more you can double-check his thinking. You aren't a cookie cutter case. You're a high-conflict case because a PD is involved. A different strategy is required.

In fact, that's a good question to ask. Has the L any experience with BPD or high-conflict cases? Or parental alienation (commonly goes with high-conflict cases)? If so, what were the outcomes for the non-disordered parent? What strategy did he or she use?

[rubyhammer]

I spoke with my first attorney this morning and I felt a little reassured.  After hearing me tell about my wife's past behavior, the attorney recommended that I ask for full custody right from the start, which I agree with.

ForeverDad, your key factors:  1)Entitlement - she said she wants the house and she thinks D9 should live with her.  I pay all the bills for the house, I pay for everything else, too.  I take care of all the daily tasks, breakfast, getting ready, school, homework, dishes, dinner, yard work, daycare, reading, bedtime, playtime.  She is very self-centered in her thinking and her ability to make a compromise is low.

2) Involved/Possessive - uBPDw has slept in D9's bed with her for many years (until just recently), insisting that D9 wanted it that way, while I have been trying for many years to point out that I don't think that's healthy for a 6-9 year old to sleep with her mom every night.  uBPDw thinks that she spends a lot of quality time with D9, but really it's an unequal relationship, very stifling to D9's development as an individual person (as I see it) and more focused on uBPDw getting HER needs met.

3)  Controlling - Over the last year or so I've changed how I respond to uBPDw's unreasonable behavior, refusing to participate in any crazy-making or game playing, and D9 has observed how I act and started to use some of the same techniques to "get away" from uBPDw.  When they are together they seem to have a good time, but uBPDw uses a lot of unhealthy coping techniques and D9 has to deal with that.  I think it causes her a lot of confused feelings.  D9 wants to please her mother (which I think is normal), but the things she's asked to do are not always appropriate and I think D9 can sense this.

Right now my strategy is to have my initial divorce filing ready to go at a moment's notice while trying out mediation.  I'm hoping that the mediation will go ok, but I'm prepared for it to go downhill very quickly.

Thanks everyone for the replies!

[ForeverDad]

Sounds familiar... .  About three months before we separated (separation trigger was the week of my 911 call when she made death threats) my then-spouse had been ranting and raging more and more, demanding compliance and calling me as Judas Iscariot and worse.  Well, she was so upset she moved out of our bedroom and moved into - you guessed it - our preschooler's bed.  I had wanted the beds to have the same queen size so sheets and blankets could fit anywhere and so unfortunately she had room in his bed.  She would even lock his door at night.  I don't know what she did after our separation, but I reported it to the custody evaluator and others.  (I've always had the feeling that if, disorder and genders reversed, I stomped off to sleep with a daughter in a locked room then I as a member of the male gender would be in a heap of trouble.)

Families sleeping together can be a cultural thing but one parent moving in with a child isn't normal healthy behavior.  It's one thing for a child to come to the parents' bed but another thing entirely for the parent to leave the spouse and move in with the child.  I guess mothers can do it but I as a father would never risk it.