obtaining a lawyer familiar with BPD

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am new here.

I just had a baby 9 days ago.

I live with my uBPDh and my 2 kids from my first marriage.

The relationship with my H has been disintegrating over the past 2 years.  I was hoping that the birth of the baby would help to bring him out of his current state of dysregulation but it has actually made it worse.  He has threatened divorce multiple times and tells me that he thinks our marriage has run its course.  He is extremely impulsive and at times inappropriate with the newborn.  Like he was eating a bowl of cereal and he took a spoonful of milk and put it in our newborns mouth.  He told me that he wants to take the baby to Florida this weekend to visit his daughter.  He only wants to bond with the baby without me.  He is jealous of the bond my kids are establishing with their brother... .and on and on and on... .

His first marriage ended and he alienated his now 21 yo daughter from his ex wife (she was 6 months at the time).  I believe he wore her down psychologically and financially in addition to poisoning his daughters mind regarding her mother.  They say the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior and I feel like he is going to try to do the same thing to me.  He has slowly stripped me of my personal power by encouraging me to cut back hours at work  and becoming financially dependent on him. 

I am trying to bide my time... .but I don't know how long i can take it.  He is manipulative, cunning, tireless and wealthyand he uses his money to always get what he wants... .I have no money... .I am so scared for the well being of my newborn as well as my 2 older kids. 

I would like to contact an attorney... .I have read where people say they have lawyers that are well versed in BPD.  I live in Ohio... .is this true that there are specific lawyers that have working knowledge with BPD.  How do I find them.  Please any advice is greatly appreciated... .I feel like I am about to face the biggest fight of my life and I am scared out of my mind and scared for my baby... .

[Mrs. Hyde]

I am new here.

I just had a baby 9 days ago.

I live with my uBPDh and my 2 kids from my first marriage.

The relationship with my H has been disintegrating over the past 2 years.  I was hoping that the birth of the baby would help to bring him out of his current state of dysregulation but it has actually made it worse.  He has threatened divorce multiple times and tells me that he thinks our marriage has run its course.  He is extremely impulsive and at times inappropriate with the newborn.  Like he was eating a bowl of cereal and he took a spoonful of milk and put it in our newborns mouth.  He told me that he wants to take the baby to Florida this weekend to visit his daughter.  He only wants to bond with the baby without me.  He is jealous of the bond my kids are establishing with their brother... .and on and on and on... .

His first marriage ended and he alienated his now 21 yo daughter from his ex wife (she was 6 months at the time).  I believe he wore her down psychologically and financially in addition to poisoning his daughters mind regarding her mother.  They say the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior and I feel like he is going to try to do the same thing to me.  He has slowly stripped me of my personal power by encouraging me to cut back hours at work  and becoming financially dependent on him. 

I am trying to bide my time... .but I don't know how long i can take it.  He is manipulative, cunning, tireless and wealthyand he uses his money to always get what he wants... .I have no money... .I am so scared for the well being of my newborn as well as my 2 older kids. 

I would like to contact an attorney... .I have read where people say they have lawyers that are well versed in BPD.  I live in Ohio... .is this true that there are specific lawyers that have working knowledge with BPD.  How do I find them.  Please any advice is greatly appreciated... .I feel like I am about to face the biggest fight of my life and I am scared out of my mind and scared for my baby... .

[enlighten me]

Hi Mrs Hyde

Firstly congratulations on the birth of your baby.

Im sorry but with regards to lawyers I cannot help as I live in the UK.

What I would say is that you need to build a picture of his behaviour and especially with regards to the child that you can use.

Cows milk to a baby before one year old is a big no no in the uk. Things like this need to be noted down. Im a big fan of Dictaphones. I bought one that I carried everytime I had contact with my ex wife. Although it cannot be used in evidence it helped to prove to my solicitor that her behaviour was not right. Im not sure whether it was for my own peace of mind as she is very convincing but it made me feel better knowing my solicitor believed me. One thing I would say is that you have to be careful with anything you collect. If your husband finds it then things could get ugly.

Have you got an escape plan? You need to have a route out if the situation is out of hand. Im not sure what there is in the States but in the uk we have emergency shelters for situations like this. That is of course if you don't have family able to help.

Your number one priority is your and your childrens safety. I can understand that your circumstances make you feel trapped but you are not. There are a lot of good people in the world who will help you. Are you religious? If so then a lot of churches will have support structures for people in your situation. Then there are various different charities that you could contact for more information. Sad to say last on the organisation list is government agancies. They don't seem to be as good but this is probably due to the red tape involved with anything to do with governments.

I wish you luck and hope that you and your children manage to escape this situation.

[livednlearned]

I'm so sad to hear that you're going through this right now Mrs. Hyde. If you search "parental alienation attorney" and "high-conflict divorce" in your area you may find attorney firms who have experience with BPD.

A book that is often recommended here is Splitting: Divorcing a NPD/BPD Spouse by Bill Eddy, who has training as both a therapist and an attorney. If I remember correctly, there is something in the book about either finding a lawyer experienced in BPD, or questions to ask attorneys to make sure they understand the challenges. He also has the High Conflict Institute in California www.highconflictinstitute.com/

While you put together a plan (do not, under any circumstances, tell your H that you are thinking about divorce!), document everything you can. Come up with a safe system to store anything you record. I believe Ohio is a one-party consent state, which means legally you don't have to get your husband's permission to record him. Talk to a lawyer about this. My lawyer discouraged it, but also told me to record everything   She felt that it could be used as leverage when negotiating with N/BPDx's lawyer. I also kept a running Google document that I called something else, and used Google calendar to keep track of things that happened. It's hard to remember things clearly when you're exhausted and feeling such stress.

There are a lot of things you can be doing to plan in advance for divorce. My L told me it was perfectly legal to withdraw money the day I left -- it's very common. Aggressive lawyers will tell you to take everything you can, whereas reasonable lawyers will say to take half. Whatever you take will be counted against the financial settlement that takes place at some point. You're just withdrawing it in the interim so you can support yourself before the first temporary order determines how much your H will give you until the assets and debts are split. As you probably know, with BPD sufferers, they aren't likely to be reasonable so you have to be proactive to take care of yourself and your kids.

I also photocopied important documents, and took out a credit card in my name only. I used it to get a storage locker where I put things I might need, or things I didn't want N/BPDx to destroy. My ex had a habit of locking me out of the house, so I wanted to also make sure I had a second set of clothes and anything I might need if he prevented me from staying in the house.

You can probably get access to your ex's divorce records from his previous marriage. Usually you call the clerk of court to request the records, and you might have to pay a small fee to have them copied and sent. I get a post office box that I used after I began working with a lawyer. You can have things sent to your PO Box like your H's old court documents. That will give you an idea about what he did to get custody of his D.

If you are worried about parental alienation and how it works, there are two excellent books -- Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak, and a newer one called Coparenting with a Toxic Ex Spouse that a member here recommended. I also highly recommend Power of Validation, which was written for parenting. Kids who are highly validated are more likely to learn to listen to themselves instead of a toxic parent, although there are many more reasons to validate your kids, and offsetting parental alienation is just one of them.

Sorry to throw so much at your right away. I found that gathering information and putting a plan into place gave me strength. It took me a year to get everything in place, and I ended up being a step ahead of my ex for most of our divorce. He isn't wealthy (compulsive spending), but is an attorney, so can represent himself for free whereas it costs me $300/hour. These are not cheap divorces, although I now have full custody. My son doesn't have any visitation with his father right now. A lot of disordered parents start to reveal their problems over time -- the key is to document that behavior, either through depositions, parenting coordinators, other third -party professionals, your own log of activity, etc. Toward the end of my marriage, my ex started to email me during extended silent treatments. Those emails helped my L see what was going on -- everything was my fault, I was a terrible wife, I had no soul, etc. He drank to excess a lot, and in one sentence would say he didn't drink too much, and then the next sentence say that I was the reason he drank too much.

You're right that your H will probably try the same stunts in your divorce as he did with his other one, but don't let that discourage you. This site is the best resource you could find to help you work through this. Everyone here has walked in your shoes, and the collective support and experience is priceless. I don't know how I would've gotten through the past three years without friends here.

LnL

[Matt]

Describe some of your husband's behaviors to each attorney you talk with, and ask if she has experience in similar cases.  It's best if you can talk to them face-to-face.  Attorneys should have "war stories" - anecdotes showing what they have learned from dealing with different situations.  The right attorney will be able to tell you about some similar cases, and how she handled them, and what she learned.  Even if she handled a case the wrong way, and got a bad result, that may be OK if she learned something from it.

My first attorney said he had experience with BPD, but he lied:  as we got into the case, he made all the wrong decisions, and pushed me toward a strategy that made no sense - a "collaborative" divorce that just went on and on, with our side making all the concessions and the other side making more accusations.  He repeatedly referred to "bipolar disorder", confusing it with BPD - I had to correct him about that several times, which told me that he probably didn't really know much about BPD, and didn't care enough to learn about it.

I started calling other attorneys, and sometimes I said, "Our marriage counselor said she thinks Mrs. Matt has BPD."  Most attorneys didn't react to that much, but one of them said, "You mean Borderline Personality Disorder?".  At least she knew what it was!  I learned that she had quite a bit of experience, representing people who had BPD as well as the other party, and she knew the right strategy for these situations - getting the right information out in the open to expose the false statements and let the court know the real situation.

You can probably call several attorneys, and maybe meet briefly with them - some give a free initial consultation - and you can be very frank with them.  Don't say more than you know - if there is no diagnosis you can say, "My husband does X and Y and Z, and from what I've read I think he may have BPD or something similar."

If custody is an issue - if your husband wants more time with the kids than you think is wise - you can probably file a motion to have a Custody Evaluator appointed, who can administer objective psych evals, which will enable a diagnosis.  It might be best to ask that both parties be given psych evals - easier to get the motion approved if it's "fair".

You want an attorney who know how the process works where you live, and how to get the results you think will be best.  Pay attention to her experience, and ask how she would go about getting good results - what is her strategy and what steps will she take?  A good attorney with a bad plan is a bad attorney.

[ForeverDad]

The relationship with my H has been disintegrating over the past 2 years.  I was hoping that the birth of the baby would help to bring him out of his current state of dysregulation but it has actually made it worse.

That happened to me too.  My then-spouse of over a decade had increasingly become more "high maintenance" than in the early years.  I (mistakenly) thought if we had a child then she would be happier watching her son discover a new and wonderful life.  Wrong!  Instead she relived her childhood fears all over again through him.  She made it all about her and her issues, as much as she Denied it.

Lesson learned, though too late for many of us:  While of course children are wonderful blessings, they don't fix a deeply troubled marriage, they just make it vastly more difficult and complicated, especially if the marriage fails.

They say the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior and I feel like he is going to try to do the same thing to me.  He has slowly stripped me of my personal power by encouraging me to cut back hours at work  and becoming financially dependent on him... .Please any advice is greatly appreciated... .I feel like I am about to face the biggest fight of my life and I am scared out of my mind and scared for my baby... .

You can do it, we've "been there, done that", peer support can help you find and stay on the better paths.

[momtara]

Mrs. Hyde, I know how you feel.  I saw my exH's behaviors and thought the babies would help.  I feel stupid for that, but we are always told that marriage is a compromise and it takes work... .and I saw so many good qualities in my exH that I thought I could find a way to make it work.

None of us realize that once we have a child, some of these behaviors aren't enough to convince the courts they need to help protect our kids.  So you really need to document and be aware that once you do get divorced, you may have to allow your exH some unsupervised time, unless you can prove some awful behaviors (or get a restraining order).  So you may want to wait until you feel comfortable doing that... .that said, every case is different, and I also don't know if it's better to leave before or after having the baby.  I don't want to scare you, because certainly things may work out fine.

My exH was not as impulsive as yours.  Taking a new baby to Florida?  I used to accede to my H's demands, but that just gives them more and more.  I know telling him no is scary, but you may want to go with him if you say yes.

Feel free to message me so we can share stories, because I know what you're going through.  It took me a while to stand up to my exH, and I tried so hard to tiptoe.

You may want to watch and wait.  If things get really bad, you can apply for a restraining order, but it depends on how threatening he is, or if he's just irresponsible.

[momtara]

I think Bill Eddy's institute can recommend lawyers in different states with experience.  They have done seminars for law offices.  You should just call and ask if there's a current list. I actually did a phone consultation with Eddy. T here weren't any in my state, but I found someone experienced in BPD on the internet.  Didnt' use that person, but it's possible to try.

Also, you can ask questions anonymously on avvo.com and lawyers will respond.  But be careful to hide identifying info!

[ForeverDad]

He told me that he wants to take the baby to Florida this weekend to visit his daughter.

I doubt any court would grant him the specific right to take a week-old baby on vacation from the new mother.  He can pressure you but you don't have to give in to pressuring or guilting.  These early months are ones where your baby really, really needs you, don't let him blur reality.

Effectively, without any court case or court orders, your parenting is undefined, both parents have rights but without specifications or structure, parenting is up for grabs and the parent in 'possession' of the children usually is in control.

I recall that I had a court order and ex brought police with her to my door more than once.  Police tried to get the "immediate incident" resolved, pressuring for me to default to mother, but whether it succeeded or not, they always said to "fix it in court".

[Matt]

Eddy's web site is www.HighConflictInstitute.com.

[Mrs. Hyde]

Wow... .thanks for all this great info.  I am going to spend some time today going over everything.  Also thanks for sharing your experiences.  It makes me feel like this is not so unsurrmountable and that I am not alone in this suffering.  I am still so angry with myself for putting my kids in harms way.  I feel like a bad mom.  It is hard to pretend to be loving when really I think I hate him.  I have already started to save old emails and such.  We don't have a joint account so I have no access to any money... .which is scary. 

I am trying to bide my time and take things one day at a time.  I am just so depressed and I feel like all this is so corrosive to my soul.  Thank you all deeply for the support

[momtara]

Act as a spy, gathering information.  Don't strike until you are ready and you know what's ahead. 

[livednlearned]

I am still so angry with myself for putting my kids in harms way.  I feel like a bad mom. 

I felt this way too. But I also think a lot of kids will heal and recover from the grief when a parent is ready to be real. My mom and I became really close after I went through my divorce -- I started to put together the pieces about how my own family of origin affected my relationship issues and set me up for a marriage to an abuser. My brother is uBPD and my dad has some pretty strong narcissistic traits. My mom is what I consider pathologically codependent. When I started to talk about things, she really showed up for me, and we sorta grieved together about the pain I experienced as a kid. Good ol' genuine validation -- it doesn't get old no matter what age you are.

You and your kids can heal. It's never too late.

[Fanie]

     ITS NOT YOUR FAULT !