tinder.com

[Veronykah]

So I joined Tinder, mostly just to see what is out there and keep myself amused. I doubt I will go on any dates but somehow just looking at online dating makes me feel better sometimes.

I just got 3 emails from the uBPDexbf about how his brother saw me on there and got this:

Sorry but I guess you moved on... .its ok my brother told me he saw you on a facebook dating site called tinder... or whatever its called... well good luck with that an I hope you find someone on there veronykah... man I really was hoping we couldv talked again in better  terms...

I do miss you very much but... its ok...    

   What's more sad, Im here willing to wait till we talked again... im keeping myself busy at the shop an at work... now im on dissabilty from work from a whole month cause of work...

    You said you needed time to be alone cause you been thru alot,   but really veronykah you said your sad an hurting too an needed space I get that... look im mot mad at all... I left my dumb attitude after this whole fiasco that night three weeks ago...

     I been good an been a better person since then... after what my brother told me about that app how its a facebook social app... but in reality its a dating site on facebook... I was like... wow she moved on... I cant be mad... she deserve someone... an I deserve better...

     But from all this Im still here waiting... whenever you wanna talk ill be here... im giving myself some space too! ... not one day or night you are not in my mind...

   ... well hope your doing well.

Hope to hear from you.

I want so badly to respond. Yeah, I've moved on. Sure. Is he high? HE deserves better? What! Why do I feel like I have to justify myself to him and why is this all so upsetting. Is reading these breaking NC?

I really DO want to talk to him but I shouldn't... .I want to explain all of this and of course say mean things about how he is probably keeping busy with the girl he added on FB that he cheated with before.

So annoyed. I want to not care what he thinks of me... .ever.



The Tinder app syncs to your Facebook profile, pulls in your name and age, you set a handful of photos and a description, and then potential matches are presented to you one-by-one, listing mutual friends and Facebook pages you’ve liked as you go along. Swipe right for “yes,” swipe left for “no,” and if you match, a window pops up for a conversation to begin.

[Tausk]

I'm sorry for the pain. It's very triggering.  And I still live with the PTSD of the abuse and WOES. 

My honest question for you is what do you want?  Do you want to get back together or want to be free from the Disorder? 

I ask because if you still want to be with him, then the staying board is better.  Otherwise, this is the place to be to continue to learn to detach.   

Remember it's the Disorder.  BTW, I'm jealous cuz my ex after we split just moved in with the guy she was cheating on me with and didn't even send me an invitation to her wedding even though I was the one who introduced them     

Hang in there,

T

[Veronykah]

I want what everyone here wants, him when he is the "good" person and not the bad.

I know that isn't going to happen so for my well being, I have to leave.

Do I want to? Not really. Do I want to continue as it has been? No.

It's so confusing. I know I need to leave and feel strong about it but then miss him and want to be with him. Him sending me emails just makes me want to believe what he says, though I know it's all not true.

[PhoenixFromTheFlames]

V -

Be strong and don't respond.  You're power is in NC and focusing on yourself - he knows this.

They all sound similar... .similarly scary.  My ex used to say the same thing about being a "better person" or that "she's changed" ... .over the course of a few weeks and also talking / texting as if she is just sitting on the sidelines waiting for me to come back (she never was).  Stay strong and positive about your progress and stay NC -- you deserve better.  Take care.

-Phoenix

[patientandclear]

Hey V. I hope you don't mind my saying I can see his point.

You did respond to his earlier pleas by saying you need time to think and to be by yourself. If someone wBPD said that and then right away was checking out a dating site, we'd all be indignant about that ... .

I think it makes sense to explain to him where you're at. He does deserve to know whether to wait for you or not. I waited for my ex who had said he was working on being alone. Meanwhile he was working on getting his ex to date him again. It felt bad to have been kept as an option while he was fishing elsewhere. I know that isn't what you were doing by posting, but he doesn't know that, and the line is pretty thin.

Hope you don't mind the contrary view.

[Veronykah]

I get what you are saying but he also broke up with me, so I don't see why he is in any position to say a damn thing about what I am doing. If he wants to wait around and see if I come back, he is free to do that.

I am also free to do whatever I want. I did not say, I need time for myself and I won't be seeing anyone else and I will only be thinking of you.

He made it clear that he broke up with me several times after I asked him to stop talking to me. As I understand being broken up means I am no longer with you which means I do what I like.

I just think if I respond it will turn into me explaining what I am doing and justifiying myself to him, which at this point, I don't see why I have to. He cheated, he broke up with me and he treated me like S--T. I owe him nothing.

I told him I needed time away from him and all of our relationship. That was it. Him sending me that email just makes be angry because just like when I was WITH him, it's him getting to dictate what I am doing, all the time. Questioning me and my motives.

I told him I would contact him when I was ready and I didn't know when that would be. I told him I needed time for MYSELF. He's told me several times we weren't broken up and he "needed time for himself" and he WAS cheating on me.

I just don't feel like I owe him anything right now. What I do isn't his business and if he wants me back so badly, I've told him time and time again to get his S together and show up with a better job, an apartment of his own and in a better place. He knows what to do and should focus on that, not me on some dumb site.

Not to mention before I broke NC last week I sent him an email telling him to never contact me in any way ever again. This was after being broken up with by him. I thought that was pretty clear. He's been working on being friends with the "other girl" for who knows how long. I'm sick of taking the high road and doing the right thing with him when he's lied and cheated and broke all sense of respect and integrity. It doesn't matter either way. If he REALLY wants me, he'll do the right thing.

And we all know that isn't going to happen.

[Tausk]

What's to stop you from blocking him from email and text?

If you want out, then get out.   

If you want to stay, then this will only bring more pain because it's hope that things will change on his end.  And it won't.

Things can only change on our side of the street. 

When I was half way out waiting for change, I ended up being betrayed and hurt far more than had I just gotten out.  I wish I had this knowledge.  It's your choice.  It's your choice. 

It hurts.  It's scary.  And it sucks.  But it is what it is.

Be kind to yourself not matter what.  You deserve it.

[patientandclear]

Veronykah, I'm sorry, I didn't remember the whole sequence of him breaking up with you first.  You're right, that would seem to release you from any expectation of not seeing others.

I will say he has probably by this time got this all reworked so you actually left him.

But I do think the recent back and forth between you two may have been confusing -- both the content and who initiated at various points.  Setting aside the question of who is in the right and who is in the wrong -- a clear statement of what you are doing gives the other person a chance to align their behavior with your current reality.

Maybe your current reality doesn't feel stable enough to communicate it to him -- I sure understand that.  I was recently in that position; my sense of what I wanted was swinging so wildly I didn't trust any articulation of it to remain true for very long.  If that's the case you could even tell him that: "I need a break as discussed earlier.  I don't know where I'm headed and I'm going to have to take as long as it takes to figure that out.  I wish you well meanwhile.  I'd appreciate it if you could give me the space I need to sort out where I am and what I want."

I am only suggesting a reiteration/clarification because it seems to me your recent responses to your ex have raised some hopes for him, and if you don't want him waiting for you, it may behoove you and him to clarify that now.

Clear, direct statements about the situation are a good jumping off point to NC, if that's where you want to be.  Obviously though, you have the best understanding of the specific chronology and dynamic, and if your gut is telling you to manage this without clarifying, it's (almost) always good to listen to your gut.

[Veronykah]

Maybe your current reality doesn't feel stable enough to communicate it to him

That hits the nail on the head. I'm here because my logical mind is saying LEAVE and stay away from him, it's done, he's out of his mind, he cheated, he treated you badly and it's happened more times than you can count.

However, I still have that emotional attachment to him so, I'm guessing, that is what is keeping me from blocking his emails and really really 100% staying away.

Right now all that my head is screaming is that I just want him to LEAVE ME ALONE until I want to talk to him. Do I have to keep reiterating that to him? It was what I said the last time I emailed him. I'd be happy to do it again but I KNOW no matter what I say, he will respond, 1, 2, 3 times. It will all be nice and rational and forgiving, like before. I just want time to be away from him, detach from the insanity and see where I am.

Contact with him isn't allowing that.

To me these emails just seem like more control. If he thinks I'm "over him" then why email me? Who cares? If I've "moved on" then it's none of his business. To me it was to make me mad and try to get me to feel bad, he loves to try to pull guilt trips on me. It just makes me irate. This is what the last fight that this all spiraled into what is going on now started with, him questioning me about something and me getting super angry.

I just want a reprieve from the chaos and drama.

[Alex86]

Sorry but I guess you moved on... .its ok my brother told me he saw you on a facebook dating site called tinder... or whatever its called... well good luck with that an I hope you find someone on there veronykah... man I really was hoping we couldv talked again in better  terms...

Yes Veronykah it's OK that you moved on. Of course he feels that.

I do miss you very much but... its ok...    

Yes again, it's OK. When he was cheating on you he didn't miss you... .

   What's more sad, Im here willing to wait till we talked again... im keeping myself busy at the shop an at work... now im on dissabilty from work from a whole month cause of work...

Trying to play the poor victim. The real sad is that he cheated and ended the r/s.

    You said you needed time to be alone cause you been thru alot,   but really veronykah you said your sad an hurting too an needed space I get that... look im mot mad at all... I left my dumb attitude after this whole fiasco that night three weeks ago...

What? He should be mad... ?

     I been good an been a better person since then... after what my brother told me about that app how its a facebook social app... but in reality its a dating site on facebook... I was like... wow she moved on... I cant be mad... she deserve someone... an I deserve better...

Yes and he doesn't even say sorry to you. What if he tried this first for a change?

     But from all this Im still here waiting... whenever you wanna talk ill be here... im giving myself some space too! ... not one day or night you are not in my mind...

So he is giving himself some space but at the same moment wants you... .? How egoistical is that.

Veronykah, cheating is a deal breaker for me. And if he truly loved you and wanted to be with you he would say at least "I'm sorry I messed up our r/s... I truly want to be with you. I would understand if you don't want me back. Let me prove to you I've changed."

[Trent]

To me these emails just seem like more control.

Exactly.  If your BPDex respected boundaries, you wouldn't even be on this site... .and they probably wouldn't have BPD!   

I just want a reprieve from the chaos and drama.

You can only control yourself, not him.  Any attempt to convince your ex to leave you alone will only embolden him further, as you'll be giving positive reinforcement (contact) to his negative behaviors (breaking NC boundaries). 

You must be the one to cut him out of your life, if that is what you so choose.  Everyone here understands how the emotional attachment can make it very difficult to completely cut our ex out of our lives, but logically we all know that is the only way.  Unless you want to recycle or continue to allow him to torment you, you must block him on every electronic avenue possible so you can create the space you need to heal and move forward. 

Good luck!   

[Clearmind]

The email is a guilt trip.

Once you separate it's completely your call what you do with your time. Neither of you have a right to dictate to the other anymore.

Take the power back and block him. No response is necessary. He wants to get a rise out of you.

[Veronykah]

Ugh, more emails from him.

All sad, missing me, saying how he knows I'm over him, how even his therapist knows what Tinder is.

He's very bothered by the Tinder thing.

I want to email him back SO badly and ask if he was "over me" when he decided it would be a good idea to be friends with the girl he cheated on me with on FB, does his therapist know about that?

I get sucked into his drama because I actually get a kick out of fighting and unlike what I read about other BPDs, he never wins and knows it with me. He tries to play the guilt card when he loses, like now but ugh I just want to get into it with him right now.

I also want to tell him to get it together and maybe it can work out. That was painful to write. I shouldn't ever get back with him.

I know I should block all his emails. Why can't I?

I really think we have some of the dynamics of the NPD/BPD relationship, I am not a full on narcissist though.

Sorry for the random stream of consciousness... .I should be sleeping. I just really want to explain everything to him, I really want to talk to him face to face. NC feels weird and like I am ignoring the issue.

I realize I'm not and it needs to be over but I just want to repeat the pattern again and again and again.

How did he make me so much like him? Yes/no, black/white, love/hate. I usually am pretty clear about what I want... .

I am really starting to understand addiction. I don't even get why I am so drawn to him since he is so toxic and bad for me, I just don't care.

[Alex86]

Ugh, more emails from him.

All sad, missing me, saying how he knows I'm over him, how even his therapist knows what Tinder is.

He's very bothered by the Tinder thing.

So he has been triggered by the Tinder because he feels he is losing his connection to you. Because he needs you in order to have an identity.

I want to email him back SO badly and ask if he was "over me" when he decided it would be a good idea to be friends with the girl he cheated on me with on FB, does his therapist know about that?

Veronykah I don't think he would show some regret on this or take the responsibility. That question will probably trigger him because of the criticism.

What will his answer prove to you? That he cares for you? I ask you has he said "I'm sorry" in all these emails?

Maybe his therapist knows or not. What is his therapist's opinion should not really matter to you.

I get sucked into his drama because I actually get a kick out of fighting and unlike what I read about other BPDs, he never wins and knows it with me. He tries to play the guilt card when he loses, like now but ugh I just want to get into it with him right now.

I also want to tell him to get it together and maybe it can work out. That was painful to write. I shouldn't ever get back with him.

Has he expressed to you that she wants you back and be willing to do anything to work it out?

Or the only word is "I miss you" playing the victim in order to manipulate you... ?

It takes two in order for a r/s to work out.

Read the following and replace "she" with "he".

Sad thing is, nobody in the world knows her, the real her, but me.

She gave you that impression. And it is an impression that's left an indelible mark- but you have to come to terms that this was seduction, plain and simple. It was also a dance repeated by her over and over again with other people... .other "objects."  Why else would she become so upset after learning that an ex-boyfriend was getting married? She's lost a valuable object that supports her identity. Without him- and his persona surrounding her- she's left without support.

Your objectification was about being a sounding board- perhaps useful to her- but more importantly, heroic to you. When she went away, she not only took away her loving gaze, but she shoved you off the pedestal. That's disordered. That's hurtful. That's important.

Ask yourself why you thought that this rarest blue flame called love could be kept 100% alive with only 50%. Without two people to make a 100% pact, there is no hope.

Stay awhile here and read- you'll find thousands of posts by people that share an emotional loss of heroic proportions. You'll need to re-evaluate what it means to be attached, and what it meant to be attached to a person with Borderline Personality. You'll see that you were used- that there is a trail of tears that started well before you came into the picture and there will be others down the line. Your job is to understand that you are no different from any of them. It will be painful, but necessary.

[Skip]

Lots of good thoughts here.  

How did he make me so much like him? Yes/no, black/white, love/hate. I usually am pretty clear about what I want... .

This part stops when you stop it.  It's not him.  We have to take responsibility for our part.

Does it make sense to be on tinder.com right now?  Probably not.  In a way it's playing with fire.   Many of our members got into bad relationships because they moved into the next relationship too quickly - didn't take the time to heal.  Try to avoid that.

I get sucked into his drama because I actually get a kick out of fighting and unlike what I read about other BPDs, he never wins and knows it with me. He tries to play the guilt card when he loses, like now but ugh I just want to get into it with him right now.

We all do a lot of immature things in these relationships.  One of the first steps to healing is to see it, make a personal commitment to be more emotionally mature going forward, and let go of it.

I get the sense from reading this that you're getting some redemption in his pain right now.  I get that.  He hurt you.  

The problem is, this often backfires on us. We feel that the other person is learning a lesson and maybe it will fix things.  While sometimes that is true, more often it is something else - triggered abandonment anxiety and/or the other person is both pulling and becoming resentful at the same time and/or the other person reads this as a green light to explore more than one option.  

I've read many thread here where our member is devastated when their ex read responded to these signals and jumped into another relationship.

So what can you do?

In a healthy relationship, we either call it off, or put it on hold.  This is taking the high road.  Taking the high road which is for ourselves first and foremost.

If you really want to take a therapeutic break to think things out, it might be better to agree that being on tinder.com is a bad idea, assure him that you haven't dated, set a time to talk in 3-4 weeks, and ask if he wants to agree not to date in the interim.  He may or may not.

If you want out, agree with his letter that you have moved on and don't want to discus the relationship anymore but that he is free to email you about other matters (cool down the abandonment anxiety you both are feeling).

At times like this, its hard to make this decision - but not making it often hurts us more ion the end.

[Karmachameleon]

Oh wow.  You are me and I am you.  Seriously.  I am in the exact same boat with my exbf.  And I also can win arguments with him so it is very tempting to respond and put them in their place.  Well, by "win" I mean I can make more logical sense than him and he knows it, but whether it resonates with him long term I seriously doubt it.  But I'm the same as you, I keep not blocking my emails.  I can't explain why except that I want some miracle to occur.  I know this is a rough patch for you, but you sound like a VERY strong person with a lot of self awareness so I am very sure you will come through this just fine.  I think imagining him being intimate with another person that he is still currently in contact with would help me detach if I were in your shoes.  Painful, but effective.  Unless that's not a deal breaker for you.

[Veronykah]

If you really want to take a therapeutic break to think things out, it might be better to agree that being on tinder.com is a bad idea, assure him that you haven't dated, set a time to talk in 3-4 weeks, and ask if he wants to agree not to date in the interim.  He may or may not.

If you want out, agree with his letter that you have moved on and don't want to discus the relationship anymore but that he is free to email you about other matters (cool down the abandonment anxiety you both are feeling).

He keeps wanting to "talk" with me and I really want to talk to him but it's more to let him know what he's done, the damage he's caused and how much he's hurt me. I just don't know that there is a point to it if he will never acknowledge/undertstand what he did. I just don't know if talking to him and seeing him will take the whole detaching process back to the start, I don't want to go back there.

I really doubt that the relationship can be fixed, the cheating and now seeing he is still in contact with her makes me think I can NEVER trust him, ever. If you can't trust someone, then what's the point?

My rational mind and everyone else in my life knows I should end it but I just can't really do it. I want him to go to therapy, I want him to get better. I know this is not reality... .I think the fact that he is in therapy gave me some hope and that's what I am clinging to, he seems to be open to finding out what is wrong with him and working on it.

I think that's what gives me hope but then the cheating/lying creeps back in my mind and I'm completely angry and disgusted.

I just want to ignore the situation... .

[Skip]

... .but it's more to let him know what he's done, the damage he's caused and how much he's hurt me.

He knows.

And you're not likely to get more from him on the path you are on. Even if he was 100% emotionally healthy -- there is a great deal of shame involved in this. Men really struggle with shame and in this case, he earned it.  It's like swallowing a mule.  And he has no one to blame but himself.  This is hard.

Look at this article on shame and you will get some sense of where he is.  "Unlike guilt, which is the feeling of doing something wrong, shame is the feeling of being something wrong. Shame is increasingly being recognized as a powerful, painful and potentially dangerous emotion"

https://bpdfamily.com/portfolio-parent

Rebuilding after infidelity really requires a plan with a joint therapist and both have to commit and do your part. It is both compromising and invasive.

For you, it is about forgiving and not shaming him and testing him.

For him, its is about wearing an ankle bracelet until the trust is restored.  Providing n access to email, checking in when he is out, etc.

Both have to be near 100% committed to their role for it to work.

Right now it is bad and it sound like neither of you are naturals or have an infidelity recovery model or are committed to it.

This is where a therapist can help. 

She/he will test both your resolves.  There is no wiggle room in infidelity recovery.

[rosannadanna]

Hi Veronykah,

You say this is what you want:

I just want time to be away from him, detach from the insanity and see where I am

\

But this is what you are doing:

Contact with him isn't allowing that.

And you have the insight to know why:

I want to email him back SO badly and ask if he was "over me" when he decided it would be a good idea to be friends with the girl he cheated on me with on FB, does his therapist know about that?

And:

I get sucked into his drama because I actually get a kick out of fighting and unlike what I read about other BPDs, he never wins and knows it with me. He tries to play the guilt card when he loses, like now but ugh I just want to get into it with him right now.

But then you contradict yourself:

I just want a reprieve from the chaos and drama.

Maybe part of the reason you stay in the chaos is this:

I also want to tell him to get it together and maybe it can work out

I think the other part of why you stay in the chaos has to do with this:

I am really starting to understand addiction. I don't even get why I am so drawn to him since he is so toxic and bad for me, I just don't care.

This is probably a very familiar pattern for you that is going to take some work to change.  I found Pia Melody's books on codependency very helpful, and therapy would also help, if you have access and the interest.

I can identify with you, so I thought I would offer some insight.

Hope it helps and good luck on your journey.

 

[Veronykah]

rosannadanna, I am completely aware that I want 2 completely opposite things. That is the problem with this whole relationship. I want to be with him and I THINK I need to not be with him.

As seems to be pretty common with people in relationships with people with BPD, my head and my heart are at polar opposites.

I hate it.

It's absolutely a pattern for US, we've been doing the same thing for most of our 2.5 year relationship.

I am in therapy and have been before, during and after him. Talking with my therapist the other day I think the draw for me is he is the only person who I can really be completely open and vulnerable with who ALSO reciprocates (well more than never). I have no one else in my life I can go to when things are terrible. I have some support from friends but not to the level I got from him.

My therapist mentioned I have her, but to me that is fake. I PAY her, if I stop paying her she ceases to care.

I've allowed him to fill 100% of the role of taking care of me emotionally and that is what is making it SO difficult to cut ties. I've never bonded with anyone like we have together in my life... .parents included.

[Narellan]

Hi V    I'm a bit confused too. I thought on your thread last week he was begging to work things out and talk and you said you needed time to sort things out. I can understand him being upset that you then join a dating site. Can you see He may feel "slapped in the face" by that, which is fine if you did it to hurt him. His email seems like he's really  telling you he's sad and can see you're moving on ( and of course hes laying it on thick) Sounds like he's saying a reluctant goodbye maybe?

Quote

"Right now all that my head is screaming is that I just want him to LEAVE ME ALONE"

And then this:

"I really want to talk to him face to face"

It's really hard when we're in so much pain to work out which path we want to take.

Many of us share in your confusion of this, and it's still early days for you. It's quite ok to be undecided. Peace 

[Veronykah]

It's weird, the more I think about it the more 50/50 I become.

I really would like to speak to him and let him know where I'm at. At this point, even though I've said it many, many times, I want to tell him here are the conditions you need to meet for me to even consider a relationship with you.

-Move out of your parents house

-Get a new job

-Start some serious therapy/DBT for your issues

-Fix your awesome car you've been talking about fixing since I met you

I want to give him 6 months to see where he's at. I spoke with my therapist and she said I could throw in "I'd prefer if you didn't date anyone during that time" but knowing I am not in charge of him and can't tell him what to do.

I know it's probably all pointless and he won't be able to get it together and do this stuff but to me it will at least give me the "closure" I don't know, to know that I told him how he could get what he wants and he didn't do it.

Our entire relationship has been me telling him to do things and that I would leave if he didn't and then us getting back together and him not doing it.

This is different as I am not with him now and he can't have me unless he does things FIRST.

However, then the flip side is I have not been in contact for about 2 weeks now and haven't seen him in a month. There is also the part that thinks this will never get fixed. Will getting into contact with him be a bad idea, should I just let it go?

Do I talk to him in person, email? I don't know.

I feel like by doing nothing it's allowing me to keep the whole thing in limbo... .

Do I tell him what I want or let him figure it out himself? Do I stop lying to myself and leave and find someone without all this baggage?

He is in therapy and has been trying to fix himself, at least from what I can see. Up until this last breakdown we were together for 7 months without a significant episode... .don't know if that even means anything.

Then the cheating thing rears it's head and I go back to not knowing what to do.

I don't know... .

[Narellan]

Hey there's no rush. Take your time and work out what it is you want in the long term. You're still in pain from losing your dog   you told him you need time and he seemed ok with that. I think he's panicked because he may think you're moving on without telling him.

Quote

":)o I tell him what I want or let him figure it out himself?"

This is the big question. He can't possibly figure out what you want because you don't know yet what you want. 

When you've had time to grieve and had time away from him you will be in a better place to decide what you want and need. It's great you're seeing your T. Read the resources on here V.

Things will start making more sense to you and then talk to him and tell him exactly what you want. 

[Veronykah]

I feel like I have to do something, like he is going to disappear if I continue NC or something.

He sent me a few messages on instagram last week. At a concert wishing I was there, telling me he knows he shouldn't be contacting me, hoping to see me again in the future, trying to change etc. Also asking if I miss him? If I love him?

I wrote back 3 days later, telling him I missed him and I love him and my heart is broken in a million pieces. He said his was too and that he wishes we could mend them together.

Haven't heard from him since.

I want to talk to him, miss him so much. I can't stop thinking about what he could be doing and if he's with someone else.

Does this mean I'm not detached enough to be deciding anything? I just don't even know how I will determine when I can talk to him or if I should.

I read so many other people's experiences on here and my ex is just not mean and vindictive. It makes it all the more difficult to figure out what to do. His BPD manifests more in not being able to handle his emotions, at all. He is more inward with his shame and hatred. The shutting down and running away is that part I can't handle.

I don't think I want it to be over in my heart, deep down inside but my brain doesn't see how it can continue... .

[patientandclear]

I read so many other people's experiences on here and my ex is just not mean and vindictive. It makes it all the more difficult to figure out what to do. His BPD manifests more in not being able to handle his emotions, at all. He is more inward with his shame and hatred. The shutting down and running away is that part I can't handle.

Just responding to this small point: this pattern is actually very common around here.  Mine shared it.  The rage is inward-directed and they rarely allow you to see it.  The problem is, the shutting down and running away is actually harder to manage, I think.  Boundaries for rages = leave the room and say when you'll be back. Don't JADE and don't respond in kind.  Not trying to minimize how hard it is to do this when what is said is hurtful, but ... .dealing with disappearing and withdrawal is harder.  If we leave as a consequence for them leaving, we end up having no r/ship.  Boundaries around these tactics are much tougher I think.

Your big question about what to do ... .this depends on what you are able to tolerate.  I think you should assume he is going to continue to be like he is.  So -- read the tools on Staying for not making things worse etc. and see if you want to accept the r/s "as is."  If not -- then, continuing the separation process seems wise.  If you've decided you can tolerate his pattered compulsive sabotaging behavior, and can trust and grow in closeness with him while knowing those behaviors are likely to reoccur, then -- you might make a go of this.

[Veronykah]

Well, I have been talking with my T about this and we both think he needs some time to get his life together before we can be together, if he can even do that.

I just can't decide if I should talk to him and tell him this or just stay away. Right now I really want to talk to him but I think it's from a place of fear. For some reason I'm really paranoid he is with someone else. For no reason, other than the previous cheating. I want to find out where he is at with everything but don't know if it will do more harm than good to talk to him.

I think I am going to get some kind of relief from it but don't know how that would happen since it will be basically to tell him my list of things he would need to get together if we were going to try to make it work and that we can't be together right now... .even though being together is what I want... .

[myself]

It hurts and leaves questions when he withdraws, as it most likely would to him if you disappeared. You're still in contact, might as well be honest. Since he's the one who keeps reaching out, the door seems open for you to speak your truths with him. It doesn't have to be all at once, but you have the right to tell him whatever you feel you need to. That yes you would consider seeing him again in the future, but it needs to be more comfortable for you. More real. More sure. One of the strangest tipping points in this is that choice between being ourselves or not ourselves. Be You!

[Veronykah]

Ugh, I've been thinking about contacting him and now for some reason I'm actually getting scared to do it.

I just don't want him to tell me things or find out things that are going to still have the power to hurt me.

Guessing this means I SHOULDN'T contact him now?

Feeling feelings and understanding what they tell me has always been something hard for me. Before I met him I didn't really have any other than anger and very rarely intense sadness. I spent my whole life trying to NOT have feelings.

Now, I've been in therapy for awhile to figure it all out.

Ah, I'm so confused.

[Narellan]

Listen to these feelings. Your gut is telling you what to do/ what not to do