Trying to readjust my attitude about d16's pregnancy...

[SeaSprite]

I've been going through the grief cycle with d16's pregnancy with the 29 y/o bf.

After talking to his family yesterday (who say they didn't know my d was only 16 and that they were very disappointed in both of them for the deception), both d and bf still say they want to be together.

I believe them. I also believe they are in love.

And they are both liars. And childish. And selfish. My daughter is very smart (academically, obviously no common sense) but he seems not so bright. One of those guys who uses the wrong words trying to sound smart. 

His mother and I exchanged phone numbers, she says she wants us to keep in contact.

I think I have to accept this guy is part of my daughter's life, unless and until she changes her mind. Am I right? It is so hard to even look at him, I'm just so angry and disgusted by everything.

And, any advice for helping them become independent? She has a little over a year till she's 18. She knows the things she will need to do intellectually, she's been doing a lot of internet reading and so on. But she is still... .LAZY. And she acts like she wants coddling, and sympathy, because she's pregnant and scared. I don't want to be heartless, I want her to feel nurtured enough that she can nurture her own child.   On the other hand... .she has work to do and it's HER work.

This morning I've been pulling together some budgeting worksheets and so on, I'm thinking I should start having regular get togethers with d and bf to get them doing some actual planning.

Meeting with his family yesterday, all he could come up with is that he wants to spend time "growing" with my d, and that he is afraid he won't be able to spend time with her. And that he's willing to break his neck working to support them. I guess that's a start. A poor start, but a start.

Advice? 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[.cup.car]

I don't see why there's a need to backpedal. But that's probably just me. If I were you, I'd keep pushing the angle that this whole scenario is wrong, messed up, and unnecessary. She's sixteen, she shouldn't be trying to start a family, and he's 29 - he shouldn't be trying to manipulate girls in high school into starting a family with him when he doesn't even have a job and lives in his mom's basement.

Again, I don't understand how society frowns upon this and parades these sort of people around National Media and drags them through the court system, BUT when it actually happens right in front of you, everything's off limits due to technicalities.

The fact that his family didn't know she's only sixteen... .as you yourself said, it's a humongous red flag. Where there's smoke, there's fire, and maybe I'm just too young to really "get it", but I don't see how simply accepting everything for what it is will benefit anybody in the long run. You can still help your kid prepare for the future, but you can also drill home that she's doing something you don't approve of. And maybe continue to investigate further about this guy's background. In every post you've made, you've clearly outlined that the dude has issues and something doesn't sit right about all of this. Keep trying to do something about it.

Cause I mean, a couple threads ago, you said some drama was caused when a guy from her school told her he likes her or whatever - something along the lines of that - what happens if she has the baby, and three months later paints her boyfriend black (something people with BPD regularly do to those who care for them) and goes and runs off with this guy from school with whom she suddenly becomes infatuated with? Not only would you have to assist her in raising her kid, suddenly this entire other family you would have spent months trying to cooperate with is incredibly angry at your daughter, and that anger also gets directed at you.

It's a very real possibility.

[pessim-optimist]

And, any advice for helping them become independent? She has a little over a year till she's 18. She knows the things she will need to do intellectually, she's been doing a lot of internet reading and so on. But she is still... .LAZY. And she acts like she wants coddling, and sympathy, because she's pregnant and scared. I don't want to be heartless, I want her to feel nurtured enough that she can nurture her own child.   On the other hand... .she has work to do and it's HER work.

Whatever happens either way, your gut instinct is correct SeaSprite.

She needs emotional support and nurturing, yet, she needs to be encouraged to solve her own problems and do the work she needs to do for herself.

Otherwise, if you start taking over for her (helping out more and more) she will likely spiral down into more incompetence and resulting resentment and worsening moods.

Meeting with his family yesterday, all he could come up with is that he wants to spend time "growing" with my d, and that he is afraid he won't be able to spend time with her. And that he's willing to break his neck working to support them. I guess that's a start. A poor start, but a start.

I am also not a big fan of this guy, and wondering how long-lasting or how stable this r/s will be... .That said, he is a reality in the picture right now, as he is the father of the coming baby. He will be legally responsible for child-support if they do not stay together (and the state will enforce it) - it's a long-term responsibility he should be made well aware of.

I would take him at his word and ask him to prove that he can support them. And maybe, I would only let him see her if he acts responsibly... .

[MammaMia]

SeaSprite

I believe you and your dh and the other "grandparents" should make it clear that while you love your dd very much, she and the bf have decided to be a "family", and because he is an adult, the primary responsibility to care for and provide a home for this child is theirs. If they want to be treated like adults, they need to act like adults.  Remove their safety net.

Do you know if the bf has ever lived on his own and had to support himself?  If not, why? From what you have said about his immaturity, he may have some mental health issues as well.  It sounds to me like they are both in the infatuation stage of their relationship. In all likelihood this may pass.  What then? 

Bf makes a lot of promises, but if he cannot step up and take care of dd and the baby, it may force her to see that she is dealing with an adult child... .not a man.  Better now than later.

I am sorry this has fallen on you.  Stay strong.  Practice some tough love and see how they react as a couple.

[SeaSprite]

Oh boy, so today my intention was to meet with the both and talk through some financial planning.

And it turns out he got beat up last night pretty bad, apparently by the friends of his ex girlfriend (who he was still seeing while dating my d)

So now she wants to go run to be with him and comfort him, and I am the ogre who is telling her to let his family handle it and stay out of the drama.

This guy is bad news that keeps getting worse.

And my d looked like she was having a panic attack when I said no, so I'm bracing for the escalations.  

Earlier my h was talking about how he'd like us to get away for a vacation in the near future, but that we might not have that choice for a while.

I hate this crap.

[MammaMia]

SeaSprite

Just out of curiosity, do you know how old the ex-gf is?  This beating sounds like something immature teenage kids would do.  Is the ex the mother of his "other" child (if there really is one)?

[SeaSprite]

From what I can gather, the ex gf and the friends that did the beating are little brother's friends, or were. Little brother got beat up too. ? He's 19.

And ex "wife" mother of the kid/kids is different, she lives in another state.

It's a flipping soap opera, its so stupid.

DD asked if we are still on to meet with her dad and the bf on Wednesday, so he must be doing ok.

I did text the mom a note of sympathy, and her reply did confirm he'd been injured.

I am having such a hard time validating any of d's feelings around any of this, because it's all so ridiculous.

"Yes honey, I can see you are very worried about him, after he got beat up by the friends of the girl he was cheating on you with (or who he was cheating on with you)." No, that doesn't quite work as validating.

What do I even say? I said all the wrong things of course

Better to have just said "I'm sorry, this must be hard for you" and left it?

She's not really talking to me, which at this point I don't mind, because all of our conversations leave both of us frustrated. 

[js friend]

Seasprite a vacation sounds like a great idea i would say... .and couldnt come at a better time,.

Whatever you say  at this moment Seasprite your dd will probably think you are just gloating over the situation.My dd knows when i am not being guenuine... .so in those times i say nothing.

From my experience my dd doesnt like proved wrong about anything especially her hopeless bf... .  and she has a very posessive nature even over friends... .maybe its the npd trait.  she also doesnt like to hear the "i told you so's", , so it makes dig her heels in even harder. I certainly dont express my opinions either way anymore when it comes to r/s issues,as they make my head spin.

What i did remind her throughout her first pregnancy was to take it easy as she was constantly running after b/f day and night.All the stress was no good for her or the baby... .so  instead what does she do.?... .ends up with a restraining order slapped on her because shes goes over  where b/f was staying.

and fought with the girl b/f is living with... .

while she is 5 months pregnant!

You have many more months ahead of you till this baby gets here... .

So try to look after yourself

[tristesse]

Hi SeaSprite,

You really are going through it, aren't you? I'm sorry that it just keeps coming at you, wave after wave.

I will say that I agree with about your dd needing your support and nurturing right now. She has made some pretty grown up choices, but she is still very young, and probably relatively confused. I know that when I was 16 and pregnant, I needed and wanted the support of my parents, but did not have it, and I am still bitter today, that baby was born almost 34 years ago, but I remember vividly how bad I wanted my mom to help me and guide me and comfort me.

I also believe that you are correct in making her understand that the responsibility of preparing for and raising a child is theirs. that was the best thing that my own mother could have ever done for me. I was not a prefect parent at 16/17 years old, but I learned quickly what it was like to be selfless, I also learned what true love was. My baby opened my eyes and heart in ways that I didn't even know existed. I was not allowed to a typical teenager, I had a baby  to take care of, which I gladly did.

So I guess I am saying, stick to your guns, but do it lovingly, and be there to guide her and answer questions. Make suggestions and let her know that they are only suggestions, she will have to make the decisions.

As for the bf, maybe he will grow up a little bit too. I hold out no hope for a  29 year old man trying to build a relationship with a 16 year old girl, but you never know.

Big Hug, I am thinking of you

[Rapt Reader]

I don't see why there's a need to backpedal. But that's probably just me. If I were you, I'd keep pushing the angle that this whole scenario is wrong, messed up, and unnecessary. She's sixteen, she shouldn't be trying to start a family, and he's 29 - he shouldn't be trying to manipulate girls in high school into starting a family with him when he doesn't even have a job and lives in his mom's basement.

The thing about this is that she is starting a family, and he's already manipulated this high school girl, and now reality demands that her parents need to parent her in everyone's best interests... .

The fact that his family didn't know she's only sixteen... .as you yourself said, it's a humongous red flag. Where there's smoke, there's fire, and maybe I'm just too young to really "get it", but I don't see how simply accepting everything for what it is will benefit anybody in the long run.

Accepting things for how they are, unfortunately, is the only way to get through all of this mess. As parents, we've had years and years to realize that we can't change what has happened; we can only try to manage these happenings with the wisdom and skills learned over the years   

You can still help your kid prepare for the future, but you can also drill home that she's doing something you don't approve of. And maybe continue to investigate further about this guy's background. In every post you've made, you've clearly outlined that the dude has issues and something doesn't sit right about all of this. Keep trying to do something about it.

We as parents cannot control who our children fall in love with, or choose to have sex with, or end up having children with. It sucks, but it is what it is... .Whether we approve or not 

Cause I mean, a couple threads ago, you said some drama was caused when a guy from her school told her he likes her or whatever - something along the lines of that - what happens if she has the baby, and three months later paints her boyfriend black (something people with BPD regularly do to those who care for them) and goes and runs off with this guy from school with whom she suddenly becomes infatuated with? Not only would you have to assist her in raising her kid, suddenly this entire other family you would have spent months trying to cooperate with is incredibly angry at your daughter, and that anger also gets directed at you.

This is, of course, always a possibility, like you say. And so are myriad possibilities that we could all think up    But, today the situation is what it is, and being a parent means supporting your child while doing what is best for her, under miserable circumstances. When a parent has a disordered child, nothing happens the way we want it to happen; the perfect solution for "normal" kids is not the solution for ours.

Outsiders will watch us make decisions and tsk tsk tsk at us for not doing things the way they think things should be done. But if they don't have a disordered child themselves, they will never know the heartbreak and difficulty we go through, just trying to do the right thing while keeping our child alive and well. It would be great if what "worked" with other kids, worked with ours... .

[Dibdob59]

Amen to that Rapt Reader.

I have spent more than 35 years trying to deal with first my UBPD/NPD husband and now my UBPD son. 

I have drowned in guilt, 'what-if', 'I should have' etc.  I have blamed myself and beat myself up for not stopping or controlling what they have both said and done. I have lived in shame, fear and self loathing feeling I should have/could have done more. 

And then I found this site and I see things differently now.  There are so many people on this site who have walked in my shoes. 

They have given me permission to stop taking the blame. 

They have let me see that all the things I have done with my UPDS that did not work are not because I was a bad mum.

All the things I tried to do may have worked with 'normal' (I hate that term) kids but not with my son.  They worked with my daughter.  They were effective with the thousands of kids I have worked with in my daily life (I am a teacher) but they did not work with my son.

I have felt so judged by others about how I have dealt with my son.  Now I disregard others as they have not walked in my shoes.  And I hope they never have to.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[PyneappleDays]

My dd is 19 going on 20 and is due in less than 2 months the father has moved on.  It is very hard not to run in and take over but really that’s been my problem from the beginning.

I’ve chosen to be the grandma.  I’ll be there for support but not a lean to.  They are the parents.  They need to work this out.  I told dd that they need to spell out their routine for the baby.  I suggested that he get supervised access because he’s too young (he still lives with his parents).  Maybe counselling, they are suggestions.

DD was very scared and emotional and asked a lot of questions about when I was pregnant.  What was normal to what name.  There has been a lot of discussion about her behaviors and routine that needed changing because she was going to be a parent.  She was very nervous about no support for her being pregnant and why was there no baby shower.  She desperate wants one.  I told after the baby was born.

Because of her age I had her go into a RTC for under age parents because I can’t be around her all the time.  I’m hoping they will give her help and advice she won’t take from me.

For you take up a hobby that’s for you to take your mind off it.  Mine are yoga, hiking and running around with the dog.  Shopping I’m not getting into basically because there a size issue I’m not dealing with ()

Good luck because this is an issue that only time can control.

[js friend]

- what happens if she has the baby, and three months later paints her boyfriend black (something people with BPD regularly do to those who care for them) and goes and runs off with this guy from school with whom she suddenly becomes infatuated with? Not only would you have to assist her in raising her kid, suddenly this entire other family you would have spent months trying to cooperate with is incredibly angry at your daughter, and that anger also gets directed at you.

This would be an immature reaction to this senario and very  BPD like to paint the whole family black so i would think that it was a good job she was no longer with this boy.

In my dd's case she has known the babies daddy for quite a while before having kids.His family dont like dd but  have a good relationship with the rest of my family and love the kids... .and this of course makes dd hate them even more. And the everyday senario is that my dd wants to dump the kids on whoever will have them... .she wants to sleep, spend time by herself, go shopping or has cleaning to do.Other times she has called to with short notice  say that she is going away, packed a bag for herself, brought them round and gone off to do her own thing!

[SeaSprite]

It's very possible I'd have drama with his family, but who knows. I'm terrible at predicting anything.

His family has been dealing with him for a long time, and I'm guessing he meets criteria for either Antisocial PD or NPD. And I really have no idea what the family dynamics are.

Surprisingly, my d calmed down after I didn't let her go running off to comfort the guy, and we've been drama free the last couple of days. I wonder what's up? 

Jsfriend, oh boy. I could totally see my d doing something like that, she gets so ... .crazy... .when things aren't going well with this guy. They were having trouble while I was in the hospital overnight for minor surgery, with older d acting as babysitter. I come home and she was cutting, and she left suicide notes in the car, as well as a note accusing the guy of rape. And I'm dreading the days where she just "doesn't want to" engage in parenting and thinks it's my job.

Tristesse, you give me hope that it worked out for you, having a child so young. I'm sorry your parents couldn't be there for you, I can't imagine that, it makes me so sad even thinking about it.     The biggest motivator in my own freak out over d's pregnancy is that I know I'll be there for whatever needs to happen, but I was looking forward to an empty nest, not a baby!

Rapt, thank you. Yes, I wish, more than anything, that what works with other kids worked with my d. Some days I just want to stomp around the house yelling "It's not fair!" 

Dibdob, I'm so with you! I used to be a school counselor, oh the irony!   And I've been so far able to help my older d through her challenges. But d16, she is just... .different. I think I am getting better at dealing with her, but she still throws things at me that I just don't handle well in the moment, and then I have to spend a bunch of time trying to regain lost ground.

She is so sure she is alone and unloved, if only she knew how much I love her and how much energy I expend on her... .

Pineappledays, How did you even find an RTC for underage mothers? I don't think that exists around here. I hope it works out for your d! Yes, I need to get back to doing things that I enjoy, lately it's like living with small children, my life is all about what other people need. I have been taking time to read (novels, for fun    ) and I keep promising myself I'll get back to writing. And I've been going out with friends now and then, when d16 is stable and/or d20 can keep an eye on her. I even put in a job application for a job that would be interesting but low stress 3 days a week,  I'm not expecting anything to come of it, but maybe I'll keep looking. I've been afraid to go back to work with everything going on with my kid)

Thank you so much for all of the support! I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have other parents who understand!   

[PyneappleDays]

How did I find the RTC for underage girls? Started asking everyone.  Shelters, schools, hospitals,  CAS, doctor,  dd.  My dh delivers to a home for teens.  When I want something done I can be relentless.

I kept saying if you know the diagnoses exists then you need to start planning on it.

Good luck with the job search