kids, holidays and disordered granparents

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all,

My daughter is almost 1 year old.  My family lives close, but my mother only met her once - last christmas.  We stayed a couple hours, didn't eat dinner and it went as well as can be expected.

My mom has been steadily pushing a simple boundary for more than 5 years.  After moving closer to her she was attempting to tighten her grip on my life choices and was sending long, often abusive, never pleasant and quite distracting emails.   I was looking for work after moving cross country, when staying with a friend she suggested I block my mothers emails after finding me in tears first thing in the morning after reading my moms latest rant.  I blocked her email address, and the last 5 years have been a silly game of internet scavenger hunt orchestrated by my mother - who grew up without the internet.  My mother has insisted that she cannot plan holidays without the internet. She quickly started asking for my address when she realized that she was truly blocked from emailing me, we bought a house this year and eventually the sale will hit public record.

I'd like to give the rest of the family some time with my daughter, I'd honestly prefer my mother be muzzled for it but I know thats not possible.  Last year she ran around looking for a card half of the visit and was shocked when we bought a house months later because she had not been following conversation.  No one else got cards, just me.  I don't know how I will handle it if she pulls the card trick again, there is a fireplace in her house... .

The writing is for her, not me.  The writing is a way to send things I'd walk away from if they were brought up in conversation.  The tone for the last few years has been heavy guilt trip, it isn't working and is driving me away faster than the outright nastyness did.  My partner can't stand her and wants to plan our Christmas away.  I'd like to get her yearly visit in so I don't have to deal with her for awhile.  If we don't visit her, she'll be clamboring to visit us and the day that woman darkens my doorstep is the day I file a restraining order.  I'd like to lay out some boundaries, but in the past I've seen my boundaries used as a treasure map to driving me up a wall. 

My mom has basically said if she can't have the same type of relationship she has with her other grandkids (manipulation based on financial need) that she won't have a relationship with my daughter.  We aren't broke, she manipulates my sister and brother for childcare and we are simply more comfortable leaving our child with a qualified caregiver who has current vaccines, etc.  In the past year she has registered a new email account and contacted me "by accident".  She has also read other peoples email accounts "on accident".  We told her we would do a quick visit on easter, but she needed to send a bunny suit, before the holiday - it was urgent.  She told me I could have my baby pictures, but only if she can sent them.  She is upset that other family members see pictures of my daughter on facebook.  I cannot bring myself to feel bad, I had a childhood of emotional manipulation and then I have, in black and white, 5 years of boundary pushing.  My partner and I are internet pros and both have specifically worked with security and can see the issues she has so bad that we have no intention of ever exposing our network of co-workers and friends to her vitrol.

[nomom4me]

Hi all,

My daughter is almost 1 year old.  My family lives close, but my mother only met her once - last christmas.  We stayed a couple hours, didn't eat dinner and it went as well as can be expected.

My mom has been steadily pushing a simple boundary for more than 5 years.  After moving closer to her she was attempting to tighten her grip on my life choices and was sending long, often abusive, never pleasant and quite distracting emails.   I was looking for work after moving cross country, when staying with a friend she suggested I block my mothers emails after finding me in tears first thing in the morning after reading my moms latest rant.  I blocked her email address, and the last 5 years have been a silly game of internet scavenger hunt orchestrated by my mother - who grew up without the internet.  My mother has insisted that she cannot plan holidays without the internet. She quickly started asking for my address when she realized that she was truly blocked from emailing me, we bought a house this year and eventually the sale will hit public record.

I'd like to give the rest of the family some time with my daughter, I'd honestly prefer my mother be muzzled for it but I know thats not possible.  Last year she ran around looking for a card half of the visit and was shocked when we bought a house months later because she had not been following conversation.  No one else got cards, just me.  I don't know how I will handle it if she pulls the card trick again, there is a fireplace in her house... .

The writing is for her, not me.  The writing is a way to send things I'd walk away from if they were brought up in conversation.  The tone for the last few years has been heavy guilt trip, it isn't working and is driving me away faster than the outright nastyness did.  My partner can't stand her and wants to plan our Christmas away.  I'd like to get her yearly visit in so I don't have to deal with her for awhile.  If we don't visit her, she'll be clamboring to visit us and the day that woman darkens my doorstep is the day I file a restraining order.  I'd like to lay out some boundaries, but in the past I've seen my boundaries used as a treasure map to driving me up a wall. 

My mom has basically said if she can't have the same type of relationship she has with her other grandkids (manipulation based on financial need) that she won't have a relationship with my daughter.  We aren't broke, she manipulates my sister and brother for childcare and we are simply more comfortable leaving our child with a qualified caregiver who has current vaccines, etc.  In the past year she has registered a new email account and contacted me "by accident".  She has also read other peoples email accounts "on accident".  We told her we would do a quick visit on easter, but she needed to send a bunny suit, before the holiday - it was urgent.  She told me I could have my baby pictures, but only if she can sent them.  She is upset that other family members see pictures of my daughter on facebook.  I cannot bring myself to feel bad, I had a childhood of emotional manipulation and then I have, in black and white, 5 years of boundary pushing.  My partner and I are internet pros and both have specifically worked with security and can see the issues she has so bad that we have no intention of ever exposing our network of co-workers and friends to her vitrol.

[nomom4me]

I really need support, I know the above read as a rant... .I needed to vent but I really support.  I'm going through a rough time with my partner, I'm mad that I don't have my family to lean on.  My partner doesn't spend holidays with his family and gets sad, but won't open up about it and procrastinates on taking any action until it's too late.

Honestly, holidays at the loonybin is the only invite we have.  He's an introvert and I have to drag him into social situations, he's taking time off work and is just around the house driving me up the walls.  I had set routines with the baby and having him home frankly throws that off.  Instability at home is a huge trigger for me, for obvious reasons.

I've just changed therapists and we are looking into couples therapists, when we were previously in couples therapy his therapist talked with out therapist frequently.  Our couples therapist spoke with my therapist one time.  Our couples therapist admitted to crossing boundaries and I am having trust issues as a result.  I don't want to take his therapists referral as I think he crossed boundaries too but my partner still works with this therapists and his therapists advocates for speaking to our personal therapists, I am unfamiliar with this type of arrangement.  I think I am being painted as the "bad parent" when I'm the mom who runs the moms group and nannied through college.  I know some disordered people can trick therapists, I'm scared.

Maybe this is just anger and frustration, we have had a very hard day but I worry, especially as my mom is malignant and seems at times more NPD than BPD that I've been groomed for relationships with narcissists.  He can be a kind man, he can also shut down and hasn't scratched the surface of his own issues with his mother.  I missed a party I had looked forward to attending because I've been sobbing for hours today.  The holidays, planning them, trying to make them fun and dealing with his moods just make me angry.  I'm sick of being told that anger is toxic, it's real and I need to deal with it.  I'm tired of this bias where men can be angry and women are "psycho" if we experience the same emotion.

[Seoulsister]

Hi there! I feel your pain with the holiday frustrations. It seems like the crazy doubles this time of year and makes things with our troubled family member even more unbearable.

Is it possible to spend the actual holiday with just your partner and daughter & meet with up with your family at a kid-friendly locale the day before/after? You could select a place where the kids can play, your mom can attend if she wishes and everyone can chat but leave when it's convenient (or things get uncomfortable). Plus having a little one allows for the "it's almost nap time" "it's almost bed time" out when you've had your fill.

This may be easier than braving a long drawn day with a sit down meal. Then you could choose a special holiday tradition to start with just you 3 and make it fun and cozy.

[Panda39]

Hi nomom4me,

Rant away   Sometimes we just have to get it out.  I'll just say that the holidays are stressful in the most "normal" of families but throw in someone with BPD and it's like a sack of angry cats!  Wild and Crazy!

It sounds like you have a lot of different things converging on you all at once no wonder you need to vent.

My advice is follow your gut... .your inner voice.  Want boundaries with mom?  Keep up those boundaries with mom. It sounds like you are Low Contact with your mom have you ever tried going No Contact?  Want to find a couples therapist that you feel comfortable with then find one and suggest them to your partner.  Thanksgiving maybe your little family of 3 could go out?  :)o you have a few friends a loose ends for Thanksgiving? Have them over for a potluck Thanksgiving. Make Thanksgiving the way you want it.

Just a few ideas   Wanted you to know that someone was listening and understands.

I have to watch as my SO's daughters go out of state for Thanksgiving with their uBPDmom and her whole nutty family of NPD and BPD people.  UBPDmom has been dysregulating  for at least the last 3 weeks because she is stressed about the trip. Unfortunately D14 is getting the brunt of that during her weekends with mom - D18 is off at college.

All I can say is Happy Thanksgiving! with my tongue in my cheek  

[bubblegirl]

I'm sick of being told that anger is toxic, it's real and I need to deal with it.  I'm tired of this bias where men can be angry and women are "psycho" if we experience the same emotion.

First of all, anger isn't toxic.  It can be, like if we are ruminating or getting into negative thought cycles, but isn't always.  I think it serves some purposes in our life, otherwise we wouldn't have it.  What I've read is that it is often a second emotion, meaning when we feel anger there is another emotional there, underneath.  Maybe part of working through this challenging time with your partner is figuring out what that other emotion is for you.  Are you disappointed in his behavior? Are you sad that you're struggling with the upcoming holidays and visit with your mom, and on top of that he's adding moodiness?  Do you feel let down some how?  Is he making you feel guilty?  These are all just stabs in the dark, you'll have to explore what's going on yourself.

As for the couples therapy, the trust relationship with the therapist is the most important thing.  Without that, the therapy isnt very effective, and can even be hurtful.  You sound very hurt and confused and alone right now.  Trust one thing: you know what you need.  You're quite clear in your post about all your triggers.  Don't doubt yourself, be strong by telling your partner what you need. It's being a loving mom to yourself.

[nomom4me]

I'm sick of being told that anger is toxic, it's real and I need to deal with it.  I'm tired of this bias where men can be angry and women are "psycho" if we experience the same emotion.

First of all, anger isn't toxic.  It can be, like if we are ruminating or getting into negative thought cycles, but isn't always.  I think it serves some purposes in our life, otherwise we wouldn't have it.  What I've read is that it is often a second emotion, meaning when we feel anger there is another emotional there, underneath.  Maybe part of working through this challenging time with your partner is figuring out what that other emotion is for you.  Are you disappointed in his behavior? Are you sad that you're struggling with the upcoming holidays and visit with your mom, and on top of that he's adding moodiness?  :)o you feel let down some how?  Is he making you feel guilty?  These are all just stabs in the dark, you'll have to explore what's going on yourself.

Thanks for all the responses, Bubblegirl I have been mulling this over and talked to my new therapist today (who is actually my old therapist, but thats a story for another day).

I'm just now getting over the guilt/shame my mother programmed into me.  I don't feel guilty any more, and thanks to Brene Brown I know that shame is nasty and useless, so knowing that my mom programed me to feel shame just makes me... .angry.  Knowing that I will see her today and that she will most likely be the waif pisses me off e even more.  I understand that she is distraught at not seeing her grandaughter over the past year but all I can say is "we are here now".  She has painted herself into a corner of nasty comments and boundary violations, her pushing is a trigger, and I don't have a good retort for that.  She wants to go over old emails, I want to tell her she can do that with a therapist - but if I bring up therapy she basically calls me crazy (she has been in and out of therapy for years).  

She will probably bring up a "need" for pictures, but I really don't know how to handle that - is it healthy to pine over pictures of her daughter when I don't want them to have a bond? (she exploited this bond with other grandkids).  This NY Times article a few years ago has legitimized my instinct to keep her locked out of social media. www.nytimes.com/2012/06/15/us/facebook-complicates-family-estrangements.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I do not email with my mother, that rule proceeds my daughter by several years.  I've read enough chapters on the many ways I've let her down and I just don't know what to do with the projections, cutting her off email was an attempt to unwind her when she is spinning a while spool of plans for me.  She doesn't have any pictures of my daughter, my brother have shown her some via facebook and I've advised them that I don't think it's a good idea, and if it escalated to posting on her behalf (as it did with my sister) I will delete or block.  These are not things I want to discuss on a holiday, if Facebook comes up my prepared answer is "lets focus on the friend part".  When she pushes for my address I give her a firm " it was (my partners) decision not to share our address, we all need to talk about boundaries before we are comfortable with you having our address".  If my mom gives me a letter or card, my plan is to say nothing and put it in her mailbox on the way out.[/quote]
As for the couples therapy, the trust relationship with the therapist is the most important thing.  Without that, the therapy isnt very effective, and can even be hurtful.  You sound very hurt and confused and alone right now.  Trust one thing: you know what you need.  You're quite clear in your post about all your triggers.  :)on't doubt yourself, be strong by telling your partner what you need. It's being a loving mom to yourself. [/quote]
He's open to couples therapy, he's going through a difficult time with his job and I'm sure his family stuff is just below the surface.  He's been supportive about my family and we talked through plans and an exit strategy for todays short visit.