I Still Feel Sympathy And The Need To Rescue

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Miscommunication tonight. I picked up the kids. It is my night and Thanksgiving holiday per the stipulation, but I had agreed to trade it for an extra day on her weekend so I could take the kids out of town to have dinner with my mom and friends Friday. I forgot that early last week we had verbally agreed to let her pick up the kids tonight (my night) and I would pick them up tomorrow night. This is what happens when things aren't documented. We were sending texts and emails on an unrelated matter, but she didn't pick up on what I was saying about tomorrow. Documentation is important. We were going aside the stipulation. She called me, reminding me that we agreed on the change of plan. I said I forgot, but could take the kids back no problem and hang out for a little while to not shock them. I could tell she was crying. She said she'd had a hard day at work and was looking forward to seeing the kids. She said it was ok, that they were excited to go home with me anyway and she didn't want to interfere.

I texted her when we got home that I could still bring them back sat night (this is her weekend), but she said it was ok, that she would pick them up after church on Sunday.

So:

1. I did mess up, but within legal bounds since I was being generous letting the kids spend Thanksgiving with her and her family even though it's my year (hence the trade for my benefit).

2. I still felt the need to rescue her from her depression. She had the kids last night, but needed them to soothe her. Parentification? I know she's their mom and gave birth to them, but I'm  becoming increasingly detached about buying into "conventional wisdom" about gender vis-a-vis parental roles.

3. She was politely dismissive of my rescue attempts by text, and invited me to attend Thanksgiving dinner with her and her family.

I still find this last point dissociative, but when she was still living with me a year ago, pretty much throwing her paramour (who she's still with) in my face while denying it, and often neglecting the kids, she was trying to be something like best friends. So that hasn't changed. This still unnerves me. I know what it is: shallow empathy, need, and a dis-integrated personality, but my feelngs about this are real, no?

Aside from the bad things, I sense that she still does care about me. I guess I still do about her as well, darn it to hell.

[Turkish]

Miscommunication tonight. I picked up the kids. It is my night and Thanksgiving holiday per the stipulation, but I had agreed to trade it for an extra day on her weekend so I could take the kids out of town to have dinner with my mom and friends Friday. I forgot that early last week we had verbally agreed to let her pick up the kids tonight (my night) and I would pick them up tomorrow night. This is what happens when things aren't documented. We were sending texts and emails on an unrelated matter, but she didn't pick up on what I was saying about tomorrow. Documentation is important. We were going aside the stipulation. She called me, reminding me that we agreed on the change of plan. I said I forgot, but could take the kids back no problem and hang out for a little while to not shock them. I could tell she was crying. She said she'd had a hard day at work and was looking forward to seeing the kids. She said it was ok, that they were excited to go home with me anyway and she didn't want to interfere.

I texted her when we got home that I could still bring them back sat night (this is her weekend), but she said it was ok, that she would pick them up after church on Sunday.

So:

1. I did mess up, but within legal bounds since I was being generous letting the kids spend Thanksgiving with her and her family even though it's my year (hence the trade for my benefit).

2. I still felt the need to rescue her from her depression. She had the kids last night, but needed them to soothe her. Parentification? I know she's their mom and gave birth to them, but I'm  becoming increasingly detached about buying into "conventional wisdom" about gender vis-a-vis parental roles.

3. She was politely dismissive of my rescue attempts by text, and invited me to attend Thanksgiving dinner with her and her family.

I still find this last point dissociative, but when she was still living with me a year ago, pretty much throwing her paramour (who she's still with) in my face while denying it, and often neglecting the kids, she was trying to be something like best friends. So that hasn't changed. This still unnerves me. I know what it is: shallow empathy, need, and a dis-integrated personality, but my feelngs about this are real, no?

Aside from the bad things, I sense that she still does care about me. I guess I still do about her as well, darn it to hell.

[Blimblam]

Tainted love.

"I love you even though you hurt me so."

I feel for you man.

[sweetheart]

Turkish it's ok to feel how you feel about her, it really is ok, but I sense that perhaps you wish those feelings weren't still there.  This woman is someone you shared a life with, had children with and will because of them be forever intertwined. I know pw BPD get a whole lot of bad press, but I believe that they are capable of love and tenderness that isn't just mirroring, and can continue to care about others that were significant to them. Sometimes just seeing and feeling things for what they are in that moment is fine. Living, dealing and surviving all that this disorder brings can rob us of those moments. 

[enlighten me]

Turkish answer me this. If it was someone else having a bad day would you feel bad about comforting them?

What it says to me is that your a compassionate soul. People who cam stand by and watch others suffer have something unhealthy about them. You dont so dont beat yourself up about it.

[billypilgrim]

Turkish,

I feel for you man.  I find myself having a hard time letting go of the fact that I can't make her get help.  It used to drive me crazy when she would have a bad day at work - all too regularly - and I couldn't do anything about it to make it better.  I can only imagine what it must be like to deal with kids and have to consistently interact with her.  I think what you are feeling is natural.  You are a good person who cares deeply about people in your life.  That shouldn't be something that is a source of negative feelings within yourself but unfortunately because of the nature of BPD, it can be very difficult to care for someone that continues to hurt you.  I think you handled the interaction very well - your grasp of the situation is very impressive.  It's a shame that us Nons have to go through so much in order to get to a place of understanding while the BPD just stands by and keeps going through the motions.

Happy Thanksgiving - enjoy the time with your kids, friends, and family.

[Turkish]

Thanks everyone for your support. Very centering!

Now I'm annoyed again. I picked them up for the weekend. She heard I was taking them to a nice restaurant with my friends and mom  tomorrow. She bought them new clothes and wanted to make sure they would wear them because she wanted people to see nicely dressed kids. I've had this argument with her in the past and lost, that our kids are awesome enough that people don't care how they are dressed, and the opinions of shallow and vapid people don't bother me. Even though she won't be there, and truthfully, my mom and friends will laugh when I tell this,.she'll feel it's a reflection on her, even hundreds of miles away. So my boundaries sucked, and I let her control me once again. Her whole family was there. I didn't feel like arguing. Grin and bear it! It's really a minor thing in the big picture, but it still annoyed me.

[enlighten me]

Turkish I can understand why it has annoyed you. She is wanting to control and have influence in your personal time. Look at it another way. Maybe it is her way to participate whilst not being there. Maybe she still wants the happy family with everyone going out and having a nice time and by having an input into what the kids wear is as close as she can get.

No mattee how well things are going in your life you probably still have this thought. Have you ever bought anything for the kids because they were doing something with their mum?

[Turkish]

Turkish I can understand why it has annoyed you. She is wanting to control and have influence in your personal time. Look at it another way. Maybe it is her way to participate whilst not being there. Maybe she still wants the happy family with everyone going out and having a nice time and by having an input into what the kids wear is as close as she can get.

No mattee how well things are going in your life you probably still have this thought. Have you ever bought anything for the kids because they were doing something with their mum?

No, that doesnt even compute with me. That's her time.

She hasn't come with us there since early last August, yet S4 was asking me the other day,."maybe Mommy can come, too." I've minimized time with all four of us since she moved out in February (she invited me to go with them to the mall last week, but I declined), but his comments still make me feel sad, as if he doesn't get it yet even now.

[enlighten me]

One thing I have noticed with my ex wife is that she gets my sons to ask about things.

I bought a house for me and my exgf. Since we split up I moved out and im renting a holiday chalet which is small but suits me. My exgf has moved out so I rented out my house as its too big for me and has too many memories. The chalet is on a site with a swimming pool and during the summer the exw came over to see the boys and have a swim with them. I foolishly offered that she could use it to take the boys swimming while I was away. I got a message from my son asking if they could stay when they visited. I was away working and said that it wasnt right for their mum to stay at my place. I later founf out that she spoke to her mum and said she was going to ask to stay.

I have had a number of these requests. The hard part is letting the kids know that its not a good idea without upsetting them or being the bad guy.

what I meant by getting yhe kids stuff is things likr sports goods for an event or a bag for a trip. Little things for the kids that involve you in some way in their life without you being physically involved.

[SickofMe]

Offering a different perspective on the clothing thing:  when my kids go to visit their father and his family for holidays, I always make sure they have nice clothing for the "family events," as well.  I would never consider this to be control or interfering, just an act of mothering.  In my family and his, people "dress" for these things--so if I sent them without appropriate garb, I'd feel terrible and like I'd neglected them.  Maybe it's her way of feeling connected with her children, somehow, even when they aren't with her.

Co-parenting is so difficult when your co-parent is manipulative.  Do you think it would help to focus on the things she does well in this regard?  I try to do this with my kids' father... .because it's less confusing.

I don't think your feelings of compassion toward your ex (and the mother of your children) indicate a boundary issue.  Maybe even the opposite.  Being able to see her as human, even knowing her issues and how the relationship has hurt you, seems like a sign of good mental health, to me.  Especially when you will always need to interact with her for the children's sake.

[Blimblam]

Turkish I can understand why it has annoyed you. She is wanting to control and have influence in your personal time. Look at it another way. Maybe it is her way to participate whilst not being there. Maybe she still wants the happy family with everyone going out and having a nice time and by having an input into what the kids wear is as close as she can get.

No mattee how well things are going in your life you probably still have this thought. Have you ever bought anything for the kids because they were doing something with their mum?

This really strikes a cord with me and I can remember my mom doing this when I was a kid. Especially Halloween. Or any Holliday she just wanted to participate in it somehow and she would put a lot of thought and energy into my clothes or some object I would have.  I think it has to do with object consistancy. This is something I've been contemplating recently. I think a pwBPD is much more cued into this because of knowing how object consistancy works for them.

[OutOfEgypt]

Hey Turkish,

It's ok, my friend.  I still go through times where I have that moment of ":)oh!" when I realize I was hornswaggled or gave in too easily or whatever, and then there is a temptation to beat myself up or analyze it to death.  There's also times where my ex shares *too much* about what's going on, as if to gain sympathy, or calls me out of the blue when she feels nervous.  It sucks, but it happens at times.  I do my best in the situation to get out of it, but there is no "perfect" answer.  When you camp next to a nuclear reactor, you're going to get sick.  It's about doing your best.  It's okay to let it go and enjoy the rest of your long weekend.  Of course it is going to provoke feelings -totally normal.  And of course you felt compelled to want to do something to make it better for your ex and let her share the kids like that -you're a kind, compassionate person.  That is nothing to fault yourself over.  The fault belongs to people like her who try to manipulate and capitalize on it.  And of course you still care... .she's the mother of your children and you don't like seeing her hurt.  Again, I wouldn't fault yourself for that.  You're a good dude -that's no crime.  You felt some things you didn't want to feel, and you had that urge to make it better for her, but you survived.  It's okay.  Mini-wakeup calls, right?  It's a process, a journey.  You and I have this cross to carry -we still have to deal with our BPD exes for the sakes of our children.  That is no easy task.  If it was, it wouldn't be a cross, now, would it?

Hold up a beer and enjoy the rest of your weekend, my friend.

[Deeno02]

This ruined me as far as sympathy and rescue goes. Not sure Ill be the same again after all this.

[Aussie JJ]

I am struggling with all of this, the emotional detachment thing. 

I don't want to hurt her still despite all of what I have gone through.  Reality is maintaining the amicable relationship is in the kids benefit.  Sucks Turkish, it really does, I wish I knew sooner so I could be more supportive and have made it work.  I also wish I knew sooner so I could have processed it all without the emotional abuse.  I struggle now massively. 

My main thing through all of this has been make it work up until early July.  Restore what was.  Those good times and remove the bad times. 

Now:

What is best for my son. 

Even now, I am trying to be reasonable with the solicitor and it is getting thrown around and she is trying to devalue me to the solicitor.  I just am at a loss. 

I was talking about it the other day with my P, would I take her back, despite it all.  Thing is, I want to take her problems away from her.  I want to make it 'normal'.  Does that make sense to you?  It's not about anything else other than making it normal again. 

That just cant be.  It will hopefully calm down in a few years.  ___, my main concern is still not aggregating her. 

[Dutched]

Turkish, my son was 16yrs. when broke up. Still minor and nothing settled (settled 2 weeks before he went 18), I only had eye for him, his wellbeing.

Like in your case exw tried several times to put me into a split, tried to influence in a pathetic way my son while being with me. It drains a lot of energy and gave me tremendous inner upheaval.

Although you feel like being played with in a sense, let a part go for your kids.

But, trading means trading, not YOU only to give in, consequently violating your boundaries, but then exw too.

Her car broke down? Tell her it is her problem. But I solve it for the kids, however it means that I won’t bring them back at x but at Y. Confirm with authority: well that is settled, have them stand by.  Anyway your text of course.

About the annoying ‘restaurant event’.

Of course mom want to show off. The kids feel proud in new cloths, of course.

When you don’t like it. Change the cloths at your home, tell the kids (yes, I am aware of the ‘manipulation’) that you would be really sorry for them if something happened with the new cloths they are so proud of…

If mom finds out (via her family)? Same story, you would have felt real sorry ruining these cloths... .

A Dutch comedian once said: ‘praise them into the grave while giving them the feeling of heaven’ not nice, but sometimes effective.

Some exes go as far as changing kids cloths as soon as they come home. In my opinion that is a parents own unhealthy behaviour projected at the kids. For the kids their cloths and toys are a part of them. That is ALL they have ALL the time, regardless where they are. Kids are the Nomads

Use the power of your mother, the kids grandma. It is unbelievable the influence (so the help for you) a grandparent can have (see it with a niece regarding the kids of my 2nd cousin (with exw I consider HFBPD), how my niece guides/influence choices by telling/explaning/showing and shopping together with my 2nd cousin and kids.)

Use the feminine wisdom of your mom as she is a woman too and knows to counteract with women.